Not all people experience withdrawal symptoms when trying to stop taking a Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor. In clinical trials, the percentage is placed between 2 and 10 percent of patients. These studies are sponsored by pharmaceutical companies. In independent research that looked at several different company studies, the percentage of patients who experienced withdrawal symptoms from SSRI was placed between 40 and 60 percent. It’s difficult to ascertain which number is right, most studies are held privately by the drug manufacturers and not available for public scrutiny. The term used by the pharmaceutical companies for withdrawal is “Discontinuation Syndrome”. SSRI work by blocking receptors that absorb Serotonin between neurons, thereby increasing the available Serotonin in the brain. The theory is that depression, obsessive behavior, anxiety, and psychotic behavior are caused by a lack of sufficient Serotonin in the brain. This theory was first developed in the 1950’s when it was noticed that patients’ mood improved when their levels of Serotonin was increased. It is currently impossible to measure the levels of Serotonin in a living brain. 90% of the body’s Serotonin exists in the gut, so researchers measure that amount, and extrapolate a concurrent increase in levels in the brain. Ironically, studies have also proven that reducing Serotonin in the brain can lead to improved mood. These results have brought the chemical imbalance theory under question in recent years. It is beginning to appear that artificially adjusting Serotonin levels in the brain does not have the intended effect, and may be the cause of some of the symptoms that SSRI were originally developed to treat.
The method that SSRI use to increase Serotonin levels in the brain is at the heart of the withdrawal problem. By blocking Serotonin receptors on neurons, the brain becomes dependent on the drug to maintain consistent levels of Serotonin. As the brain becomes accustomed to the drug, it no longer has to produce or regulate Serotonin as it did before. When the drug is removed, the receptors that stimulate Serotonin production are still blocked, and levels of this neurotransmitter begin to fluctuate. Since Serotonin is closely involved in mood and the ability to cope with emotions, this fluctuation causes wide mood swings and uncontrollable emotions. It seems that the level of Serotonin in the brain is not as important as consistent levels. As the brain adjusts to the need to self regulate levels of Serotonin, many patients experience a cascade of extreme emotional and physical symptoms. Analogous to the stages of grief or joy, these symptoms don’t always come all at once. In most cases, withdrawal symptoms come and go as the user lowers their dose of the drug. Some common emotion symptoms include depression, anxiety, anger, confusion, insomnia, and memory loss. For most people, these are symptoms that they experience in every day life. Usually, they are manageable and temporary. The difference for the withdrawal sufferer is that these emotions become unmanageable and intense. The regular mechanism that we use to control our emotions no longer works during withdrawal. It’s hard to imagine the loss of control that accompanies withdrawal symptoms. When a normal person succumbs to anger, it is still a conscious decision. In withdrawal, there is no spiral that precipitates the uncontrollable rage, it springs fully formed in the mind and propels itself without any input from the person experiencing it. The other emotional symptoms of withdrawal act in a similar way. Even when the patient exercises mindfulness and self awareness, anxiety, depression, and the other symptoms come on with little warning. They have a realness and power that most people are not used to. Since the brain’s balance has been disrupted, reality itself has been changed for the patient. Instead of an emotional wave that must be conquered or endured, these emotions become reality, with no alternative.
As time goes by, the patient will eventually be able to self regulate each emotion at a level similar to before they began taking an SSRI. One of the frustrating things about weaning off an SSRI is that the patient is only aware of progress after a phase has passed. They may feel extreme anxiety, but realize that the rage they experienced a few months before no longer bothers them. While they are experiencing a phase, there is no context to compare their emotions to. Since the emotions are so powerful and uncontrollable, emotional self awareness is short circuited, leading to mental relativism. The patient doesn’t realize the whole range of emotions, just the small extreme range that they are experiencing at the moment. The alternative to blind rage isn’t calmness, as it would be in a normal person. Instead, irrational anger is the lower end of the emotional range.
During withdrawal, these realities change and evolve as some emotions become dominant. Patients may experience uncontrollable rage for a few weeks, then enter a stage where depression dominates. These emotional tides are outward signs of the brain readjusting to the need to self regulate neurotransmitter levels. It is almost as if the mind is going through the entire inventory of emotion trying to catalog what’s necessary to regulate each one. Some people will experience several uncontrollable emotions at the same time, but the uncontrollable aspect of them will fade away one at a time. The variety and severity of symptoms often lead doctors to prescribe other drugs to mitigate the effects. This strategy compounds the problems of withdrawal by adding a second effect to an existing condition. The patient now has to deal with withdrawal as well as the effects of a new drug and perhaps a new set of withdrawal symptoms. The best strategy for dealing with SSRI withdrawal symptoms is time and slow weaning. A prolonged weaning schedule will reduce the severity and number of withdrawal symptoms. The brain requires a certain amount of time to adjust back to a natural balance of neurotransmitters which can’t be rushed. By slowly weaning off an SSRI, the brain does not have to deal with a sudden change to Serotonin levels, and can adjust at a natural rate. It takes a great deal of time for receptors in the brain to regenerate. A schedule that reduces the drug by 10% each month is usually sufficient. Schedules can vary depending on the patient. Some will be able to reduce their dose more quickly, others may have to go more slowly.
James Heaney 
May 22, 2012 at 2:21 am
I read your SSRI withdrawal article with interest. Its comforting to realise that the ‘crazy’ range of emotions I am currently experiencing is considered ‘normal’ under the circumstances….I was diagnosed with anxiety disorder and depression in 2005, and have been on 20mg of Lexamil since then. Two months ago I made a decision to rid my body of pills, as I found my creativity to be stunted (hard since I’m an artist), as well as carrying around an extra 8kg, mostly around what used to be my waist. I had reached a stage of particular boredom where I found I was a slightly overweight Stepford wife with no passion for anything. Calm, placid, sane and boring….never being one to do anything in half-measures, I went cold-turkey immediately, knowing full-well how hard I would find it and how ill-advised this sudden blow to my brain would be. Two months cold-turkey has been a rough ride to say the least…- I have been able to deal with migraines, insomnia, severe anxiety, stomach upsets, RLD and electrical flashing in my head. What I didn’t count on is the ANGER and EMOTIONAL sudden sadness that grips me suddenly and without warning. I guess what I’m trying to ask is, ‘Are we there yet??’ How long will it take for the synaptic spaces between my neurons to twig on that effort is required on theor part?
May 24, 2012 at 10:02 am
How long symptoms last depends on a lot of factors. Each individual will react differently to the drug. Many people, even a majority, don’t have any perceptible withdrawal symptoms. The size of your dosage, and how long you took an SSRI affect the length of withdrawal. It can seem like it will last for a long time, all you can do is recognize progress as it happens and realize that you’re healing.
Anger is one of the hardest symptoms to deal with. It’s rage without any context or reason. It’s not caused by any external event, it’s backwards. It’s anger springing from within looking for a target. We’re so used to anger being a righteous response to something that’s wronged us, it’s turned on its head when it just comes over us during withdrawal. You’re just Angry, and anything that looks like a likely target becomes the reason to be angry. The most frightening thing about Withdrawal anger is that the scale and target of that anger can be anything, it can lead you into serious trouble if you focus on the wrong thing. It should pass, eventually. It gets replaced by other emotions, but you should take comfort in the idea that you’ve passed through the anger phase. It feels like the mind is cataloging each emotion, one madness at a time.
Withdrawal is a one step forward, half step back kind of thing, so it’s very frustrating and hard to gauge. I wish the companies would give more information about it because patients who experience it are often diagnosed with new disorders and given ever more powerful drugs to treat those diagnoses. We treat withdrawal from other drugs as a condition, but dismiss SSRI withdrawal. Patients and doctors misdiagnose SSRI withdrawal, which complicates recovery and often leads to a spiral of treatment and disability for the patient. We’re left with anecdotal reports from other patients, which isn’t the way it should be. We’re not qualified to distinguish between real problems and those caused by withdrawal. They can look very similar, even to a professional. The only reason I can distinguish between withdrawal and pre existing symptoms is that my original diagnosis was so slight, shyness, that most of the withdrawal symptoms were related to stopping Paxil. Good luck with your withdrawal. Check out http://www.paxilprogress.org if you need some help, they have some withdrawal veterans there who can give very good advice.
June 24, 2012 at 5:17 pm
I went into a manic phase at 2 month on lexapro treatment and while tappering off.
Since that manic stuff, wich have stayed 1 or 2 month, Im a zombie.
No emotion, no motivation, no creativity left in me (was musician), my thought process is just blocked my memory and concentration is f**ked, Ive hard time to find my words. I lost my job and my girlfriend, I navigate beetween different psy with no help.
1,5 years and nothing have changed. I’m simply like dead.
I just vent that, I want no more of psy sh**ty advice. I wait for science discredit all your wrong stuff and false hypothesis. I know a guy (waking life forum , french forum) who got exactly the same story. I mean EXACTLY.
February 25, 2013 at 11:52 am
You put into words exactly what being on Luvox has been like for me. Except that a graphic artist and not a musician. Haven’t produced anything in years. Creative button seems soldered tight and it’s to the point where anytime I can’t find the word I’m looking for I wanna bash my head against a wall (it’s too often). It’s so frustrating and it makes me feel stupid – and like a waste of a 4 year degree earned with honors. My place is a mess along with the stack of mail as I have no motivation to bother with it. And showers? Yah, hahaha. Once every couple of weeks if I’m lucky, a project in of itself. There is two extra bonuses I have that weren’t mentioned though. I’ve lost so much weight that I look straight outta Auschwitz (it’s bad), and I get these chronic sweats (that brings on adult acne, yay) on a daily basis, multiple times a day. It’s so odd though cuz it’s only on the right hemisphere of my head, neck upper back and face. You can literally wipe a finger from left to right on my forehead and the left side will e perfectly dry and once the middle is crossed over it’s clammy and dripping sweat. So strange!! (and uncomfortable!!) After a few year on this shit drug, I’m done playing hostage to it and my dr who has me “hooked” by supplies alone due to $$. I’ve gone from 100mg down to 20 and it got rather shaky for a couple days there for the first time so I’m gonna hang out at this lvl for awhile. Not that anyone cares about those particulars – I just really hope that I lose most if not all of these shitt side-effects and none of them have become a permanent fix in my life long after I’m off Luvox.
February 27, 2013 at 10:43 am
I was stunned when I reached zero on paxil. It was like that creativity switch you talk about just flipped itself back on in an instant. In the two months I was Paxil free, I wrote 13 short stories, absorbed 400 pages of a Cisco networking book in a week, became more interactive with my friends, and regained my speaking eloquence. It was an amazing time. Unfortunately, I crashed after that two month period, and had to go back on the drug. I could feel the curtain lowering over my mind this time. It felt like I was losing an essential part of myself, and there was nothing I could do about it. That creativity is now slowly coming back. It’s slow, and irregular, but it is coming back. I’ve had two job interviews in the last month. I was confident and eloquent in the first, tongue tied and stuttering in the second. It’s frustrating that I can’t predict how I’ll be in a given situation, but I’m hopeful that the word stumbling will diminish and the eloquence will return.
January 1, 2014 at 5:01 am
January 1, 2014 1:50am Hi I’ve read a few of the things you have gone thru & can relate so well! I’ve been trying to get off of effexor for years! at 1 point I was taking over 450mg per md ok & ended up in hosp for 5 days for seratonin syndrome but I’m so tired of being tired and the migraines & not being able to think. I’ve tapered down considerably to a total of 150mg a day total & that’s significant. these drug companies are sort of like hostage takers you can’t afford to be on it or off it. I’ve tried to get off this for 4 times now. think i’ll try the tabs instead of sr and cut them in half & go off tiny bit every 4 months (in past have cried every day for over a week but have gained weight & hair falling out & i’m only a girl. so wish me luck this beginning of the new year and that I live thru it all ’cause its a big risk but i am determined) hard part is: you know if your crying so much that it will only tale one pill and you’ll stop like turning off the water so wish me luck in new year maybe i’ll try to remember to check back in a year. You people have helped me very much….at a great risk of expense I must say though….. thank you all, You must feel strog enough in your soul to do it but problem is…on these….where is your soul, really? Best of luck for all of you & all those who got sucked into this mess. Attn psych’s:::go back to school & get updated info re :::ways to cope ’cause this way is like being a zombie!
July 30, 2014 at 3:53 am
Thanks for your comment. I wait for the day too when the bs will be put to rest and people will stop being guinea pigs to stupid assumptions of what is best for us. Best of luck to you.
November 26, 2012 at 9:49 pm
I have been off of sertraline for 10 months now and I STILL have issues with the brain zaps and anger…. Is this EVER going to go away completely? Makes me think I have some sort of permanent damage…. Anyone else have it last this long????
January 5, 2013 at 8:27 pm
I’m at 8 1/2 months everythings great except EXTREME Exhaustion that hits everyday around 3 .. debilitating mental fatigue and insomnia … Have talked to many doctors and specialist. Can take up to a year or sometimes even 2. Hang in there .. your fighting the good fight.
January 6, 2013 at 8:18 am
Rodney – how are you doing? 11 months off sert now? Any improvements over this month? I’m a month behind you- 10 months off the sert and suffering badly at the mo. Hoping you’ve had some improvements. Rachel
January 6, 2013 at 9:45 am
I also had a long period where I thought that I had damaged my brain in some way by taking Paxil. It’s hard to avoid the thought because the symptoms are so profound. It also permeates every aspect of thought, too. There are some articles that speculate about large scale physical changes in the brain made by these drugs. My sense is that the changes that SSRI make to the brain are microscopic, at the neuron/receptor scale. By suppressing the reuptake of Serotonin, SSRI deplete the store of Serotonin inside neurons and increases the amount of Serotonin in between neurons. In response, the brain tries to reestablish the old Serotonin balance by activating new receptors. These new receptors are in turn blocked by the drug. When the SSRI is removed, the brain is suddenly thrown into chemical chaos. Suddenly, there is a huge overabundance of receptors absorbing Serotonin. The balance shifts dramatically from Serotonin in the interneural gap to being hoarded in the neurons. Just as it takes a long time to establish the SSRI balance, it takes a while for the brain to readjust itself to the lack of drug. There are 100 billion neurons in the brain, each with a series of receptors and “pores” that absorb and release neurotransmitters. Withdrawal can last a long time, but there is an inevitability about recovery. A brain that is plastic enough to adjust to SSRI in the first place is flexible enough to adjust back. I hope you feel better soon, withdrawal is really hard to deal with.
January 8, 2013 at 11:52 pm
Hello, everybody. Again, don’t want to post an exclusively negative input, but, according to your explanation, npanth, a recovery process is constantly going on and eventually has to overcome the withdrawal. Please, explain, if you could, what’s going on with me – I am spiraling further and further down. Didn’t sleep 7 nights in a row, couldn’t bear with it any longer, went to the ER, was admitted to the psychiatric unit of the hospital and thrown out in 2.5 days with prescription for insomnia. I got there on Saturday night and psychiatrist who performed an intake on Sunday took it very seriously, seemed open-minded about withdrawal but she was there on a rare occasion. When regular team took over (residents with an attending physician) it didn’t go anywhere – totally distorted and superficial approach – they didn’t even believe I don’t sleep at all b/c an anxiety level is through the roof. The medications that are supposed to decrease the anxiety don’t work and make me more depressed. I can’t find anything to mitigate anxiety and help me sleep. Today came back home at the same condition as I went to ER in despair, ready to go there again. I apologize but where else I can look for an advice? Exhausted all possible venues.
January 9, 2013 at 11:47 am
Hi Jane,
My cousin doesn’t sleep either, due to anxiety. If she doesn’t take meds, she doesn’t sleep. I will find out what she’s taking. I know Valium helps. But there are other meds that help her sleep. She is resistant to many medications and has to take larger doses than many people. I feel horrible for you, being in that level of anxiety with no relief.
January 9, 2013 at 4:24 pm
Thank you so much, Sarah. I’d appreciate if you could find out what drugs help her with sleep. The problem is that I’ve tried “plain” sleeping pills, and they don’t work, antianxiety meds such as benzos and neurontin with the same effect, now I was prescribed remeron which is tetracyclic AD (small dose though). The big problem with all the drugs for me is not only they are not effective for the indications they are supposed to fix, but even a single use of the drug dramatically worsen my depression and alertness the next day. Could you ask her about these adverse reactions as well. Thank you so much.
January 9, 2013 at 6:25 pm
Jane, I read your posts re: anxiety, insomnia, etc. I have NO training whatsoever, but have tried various “natural” supplements as I’ve attempted to get off Zoloft. I find passion flower 1000 mg, D3 1000 to 2000 units, and Calms Forte (homeopathic tablets) helpful. Good luck.
January 9, 2013 at 10:39 pm
Thank you AE for your suggestion. I’ve tried many supplements as well, and some contain part of the ingredients you’ve mentioned. I took Picamilon – special anxiolytic remedy without any effect, currently taking Seriphos and blend of GABA (500 mg), L-theanine (400mg), Ashwagandha (200 mg), Valerian root extract (200mg) and Passion flower (100mg). So far these all haven’t made a dent. May be, I should increase the dosage? Seems that the powerful process going inside me is very hard to overcome or, at least, affect in some way.
January 9, 2013 at 8:30 pm
Trying to reply to Jane – there’s no “reply” under her post. Jane – my cousin said Seroquel worked, though it made her sleep so much of the next day that she could barely function. But maybe you could try it at least to get SOME sleep. She said that Lunesta works for her mom, who has similar problems.
This same cousin is Bipolar, and when treated with antidepressants, had “mixed states” where the antidepressants were making her manic and depressed, all at once! Horrible. She’s only on a mood stabilizer now, not an antidepressant. I’ve seen a huge difference in her since she got off the antidepressant. Granted, she still can’t sleep without a lot of assistance. I suspect that she has some post traumatic stress work she needs to do before her brain will let her sleep, but that’s my totally non-clinical opinion. I really hope you get some help. I had to call and schedule appointments with three unknown psychiatrists while I was in my panic spiral, and it was hell, but I’m feeling better that I have some experts to talk to next week. I really hope one of them seems smart and well-read on meds. Good luck to you. I’ll be thinking about you.
January 10, 2013 at 12:03 am
Sarah, I already replied to your other post that I felt completely in accord with, before I read the last one. Thank you for your info. Seroquel scares the hell out of me – it’s deadener, in my opinion. Lunesta doesn’t work for me as other “purely” sleeping pills. Supplements have very weak effect if at all. Share with us the outcome of your meetings with the specialists. So far I couldn’t find an understanding of withdrawal on the part of any practitioner I’ve met. Understanding can’t be achieved without a willingness. But it’s much easier for them to reject the condition than make an attempt to accept.
January 10, 2013 at 8:33 am
Hi Npanth, i was looking online earlier and ALL my symptoms are a classic description of fibromyalgia. I was looking up reasons for my back pain. Everything, from the areas where i have pain, the numbness, tingling, fatigue, headaches. If I went to a doctor today this is what they would diagnose me as having. The only difference is i have experienced a break from these symptoms. They say fibromyalgia is permanent.
January 11, 2013 at 8:03 pm
Jane, I just remembered that I also take magnesium every day. I was just reading on paxilprogress and one area was about magnesium. I didn’t realize it would have an effect, but I’ve been off zoloft for 2 weeks now and this withdrawal session is much easier than other’s I’ve attempted. I had tapered my zoloft down to 12.5 mg a day, but I’ve done that in the past too yet was in agony with withdrawal. So maybe it is also the magnesium that is helping.
January 14, 2013 at 7:10 pm
Jane, try melatonin to sleep. comes in a variety of doses.
January 14, 2013 at 10:07 pm
Thank you, AE. Really, every advise and act of attention here are so precious. If we all could get together and talk personally – it’s supportive role is hard to overestimate. I took melatonin in the past when insomnia was not so persistent – it didn’t have an effect. Unfortunately, all supplements I’ve tried, had no effect on my condition. As for drugs – completely opposite. As other people find, I developed hypersensitivity and even single and small dose of any drug makes my depression so much worse that I try to stay away from them. Couldn’t entirely, though, otherwise I wouldn’t sleep at all – that’s happened already for 7 nights in a row what brought me to the ER and subsequently – to the hospital. Thank you, all
August 9, 2013 at 11:22 am
I had just read this. I’m going through a hard time as I was put on cymbalta for a month. Had the worst side effects known to man. All of the bad effects possible happened to me and happened hard. I was prescribed for anxiety and just a little bit of depression. After getting on cymbalta I had full force depression (became suicidal) scared the hell out of me!! Than I felt like I had been drinking coffee all day everyday that’s how anxious I felt. I had shakes, racing heart, sweating ridiculously…the list goes on and on. I tried so hard to stick it out as I know it takes 2 weeks for the medication to get in your system and than up to 6-8 weeks for the body to adjust. I kept pushing each day as the days seemed never ending, the pain was impossible to ignore, and I cried everyday. Went to the doctor after a month because I couldn’t handle it anymore. She said what I was experiencing wasn’t right and that I’m too sensitive to it. I have been withdrawing from it and taking a new medication which has absolute no side. So as I started tapering off off of cymbalta I have started Lexapro. My head is just all over the place. I feel like these last about 6 weeks I have been absent from my body and its been very upsetting. My short term memory kind of sucks. I just don’t feel connected to anything that’s going on. What you wrote definately gave me hope. It just feels never ending. Usually with anxiety I would avoid situations that would give me anxiety. And now…I fear myself and mind as each day I don’t know what’s going on. I just want to feel grounded and have a sense of reality. I’ve felt like I’ve been just floating around. 😦 it’s been really getting to me. I know I’m chemically unbalanced but I’m petrified that I’m going to be stuck. This is so so so hard…
August 9, 2013 at 8:58 pm
Kara
You said your doctor told you that Lexapro had no side affects. It sounds like to me you need another doctor. I am not a doc and have only information based on personal experiences. Lexapro left me with many profound side affects. I believe all these drugs have side affects of some type.
I am going on 21 months drug free. I still have depersonalization and derealization almost daily.
This journey you are on is not easy but you can do it. It takes a lot of personal courage and lots of time. Time to relearn who you are without meds. It is not easy but can be done.
August 10, 2013 at 5:42 pm
I also was taking Lexapro and experienced not so many bad effects-but became dependent on a drug that I felt like I was only taking it to prevent going through withdrawal symptoms.
Having any sort of identity which I can live with has pained me, and SSRI use, I believe, makes it harder to live-although, I’m fairly new to this Lex discontinuation.
Good luck
August 16, 2013 at 7:53 pm
Hang in there Kara. The anhedonia (emotional disconnect) is really common in SSRI withdrawal. I had it, too. It’s so weird seeing something that you know should be emotional, but there’s no response. It’s like living inside a pillow or blanket.m it does go away, though. It kind of breaks up like the flu. I was watching a comedy and suddenly realized that I had laughed until I cried. I hadn’t done that in a while. Slowly, things have been getting back to normal. I hope you get there soon.
January 6, 2015 at 6:23 pm
Hey Npanth, are you still monitoring this blog. I’m going through SSRI withdrawal and I’m experiencing some of the symptoms you have described.
Like today, I had an adrenaline rush for no apparent reason and it’s made me concerned. Does SSRI withdrawal effect adrenaline in any way?
May 6, 2016 at 9:16 am
I have been so afraid that I am now permanently altered from SSRI discontinuation. I was discontinued from a medication I was on for 20 years over the course of 3 weeks. I was NEVER told about SSRI discontinuation syndrome. I now have visual disturbances, coordination deficits, cognitive and word finding issues and a feeling of disreality. I reinstated the medication as instructed and have vacillated between serotonin syndrome (nausea, flushing, burning in upper and lower extremities, confusion) and low serotonin levels. I am crying and deeply dysphoric. I’ve had to take a leave from work and am now in jeopardy of losing my job. I am devastated. Do you really believe I will recover? It’s really not damage? It’s just a matter of reaching homeostasis again? I am so concerned. Thank you npanth
September 28, 2014 at 6:11 am
I was on 150 mg sertraline for maybe a year. I started lower but ended up on 150 mg because I was suicidal on 50mg and bordering on suicide on 100mg. For a long time on 150 mg I was sleeping a lot and had no drive to do anything, but it stopped me thinking about suicide. Anyway, I stopped my medication because it was gradually suppressing my immune system and I was severely constipated all the time. Everything was slowed down and I was feeling really unwell.
I’ve been off my medication for 7 days, I nearly got hit by a car and when the driver shouted something I at me I just wanted him to fuck off, so I (inadvertently) told him to fuck off. Next thing I was surrounded by 3 thugs who wanted to beat me up. I felt so deranged and out of it that all I could think of was whether the guy up in my face was going to punch me and why (I had immediately forgotten I had sweared at them). I think I must have looked like I wasn’t really there to them – maybe that’s why they left me alone.
I came across these posts wondering how long these symptoms might last and your post concerns me a great deal. I can say right now that I would rather die than be left like this. Make of this comment what you will. I’m very upset now. Perhaps my experience will be of use to the next poor fool that lands here.
June 30, 2015 at 4:24 pm
I have been on sertraline on and off for 20 years. Usually i have horrible discontinuance syndrome that lasts about a month and a half. Now I have been off almost 3 months and have horrible anger and mood issues. I have been back to the doctor askin if this is my body trying to re adapt itself or am i now worse with possible bi-polar. (originally depression and anxity) Today i purchased 5htp,gaba and valerian tea. Im in worse condition than i have ever been in.
August 22, 2015 at 9:11 am
Rodney – I’ve been of Zoloft (sertraline) for 6 months now and I’m about ready to jump off a bridge. I am crying everyday and an extremely angry at my doctor (wrote her a letter) and my ex-husband, who I’ve been divorced from for 12 years! I want to write him a letter, too, but am trying to control that one. I hope by now, 2015, that you are doing OK. I refuse to go back on the drug and reading these posts has helped to make me realize that I just need to hang in there..that these drugs are awful to come off of and it can take what seems to be forever.
August 30, 2015 at 6:09 pm
I’m off Zoloft 6 weeks now after 20 years. Varying dosages. Max dosage at 100mg. Am going crazy with anger, anxiety, depression, and bouts of crying. Should I stick it out? Scheduled to spend $1,600 on a course of anger management soon. Fuzzy brain, hard to concentrate. Unable to deal with criticism now. Super sensitive. Hoping to find similar stories and assurance of it passing over time. Feel so alone. No support. All on my own.
August 30, 2015 at 8:06 pm
Lisa:
1st of this site is no longer monitored closely any more. There is a site called survivingantidepressants .org. This site is very helpful. Please take a look at it. If you quite cold turkey please please please look at the tapering off sections.
Please interact with these people they can help. I was in your shoes at one point in time and really wish I would have found this site early on.
I am almost 4 yrs off meds now after about 18 yrs. on them. you don’t know this yet but you will now be starting a journey that no one but you can take. Some of it will be good some will be bad.
December 29, 2013 at 4:28 am
I think there should be many new class action lawsuits against big pharma., for relatives who have been harmed by the withdrawal symptoms of their loved ones. If the “anger” you described as rage, is looking for a target, maybe it should be directed at these drug companies who helped create it. I believe in 20 years from now these aforementioned drugs will be viewed with greater disdain than now, and if lucky, at least in the same way or worse than when the FDA prescribed Estrogen for post menopausal women. They did so many flip flops as to whether is was good, bad, and/or indifferent it was ridiculous. I just have a hunch we are just dabbling with brain chemistry, ( as you say covering up withdrawal from one drug with another), and as you say ” not even the professionals can tell the difference”. Not very reassuring from my point of view. I’ll keep my neurosis, and oppositional defiance disorder, (self diagnosed) and I say direct your ” anger” with class action lawsuits, and the sooner the better. Btw, have you noticed that many of these people on these types of drugs seem to end up on the Channel 7 news committing all sorts of crazy crimes. Is it merely a coincidence that many seem to be on these drugs, a common thread perhaps? Or am I just imagining this? Do these drugs also lower inhibition, and inhibit impulse control, do these drugs prevent people from abiding by the law? I think Big Pharma should be held responsible if it turns out my hunch is correct that the aforementioned actually is more than mere coincidence.
March 22, 2015 at 6:14 pm
i cheated on my husband, after 13 years of serving god and never ever thinking of such a thing,, i cant even fathom how i did that, i am so ashamed, and i know ihave fault but celexa has made me someone else, i am still trying to come off of it,
July 18, 2015 at 7:16 am
Please reply Mr N. Panth. I am facing severe withdrawl symptoms. Have been on Paxil since 2 years. Now withdrawing but—-
November 5, 2013 at 8:48 am
You should try sertraline, I actually found my imagination to be even more vivid, might be because I have more of my brain free to be imaginative lol. I’m an artist also I draw every day on sertraline, before it I spent so much time in a dark room being suicidal I drew once a week….tops.
November 5, 2013 at 8:54 am
Hi Amanda,
Sertaline is Zoloft. I strongly recommend staying away from it. Once you get tired of existing in a numbed state and try to get off, you get a first-hand introduction to hell. Some of us are still experiencing problems because of taking Zoloft and trying to get off. I’m glad it works for you, but anyone considering trying it should do some serious research on what happens when you try to quit.
Good luck to you,
Kat
June 24, 2014 at 6:47 am
Hi Kat and Amanda,
I experienced the most horrific side affect from Zoloft and only from couple of pills. I would not wish it upon anyone! I experienced such horrible sensations that I can’t even write about it.It sent me to a really dark place and I wanted to commit suicide! I would love to be part of a law suit because these drugs can really destroy lives! I would not advise anyone in trying Zoloft and any other AD’S. I don’t even know if I have fully recovered because I have been prescribed RAMERON as I was not functioning at all. I lost weight, no appetite, no will to live it completely destroyed me as a person. I can’t describe what it did to me! The worst part is that GP’s can prescribe AD’S and not know of possible rare side affects. I just have one advise to people going through withdrawal symptoms, try not to take any herbal, supplements, vitamins etc. If your system is already sensitive, these supplements can aggravate the problem and prolong your withdrawal symptoms. Found out first hand. Could not tolerate magnesium or fish oil. The less things you take the faster the healing process. I wish everyone the best.
June 24, 2014 at 9:12 am
I have been on Zoloft for 15+ years and have been slowly weaning since last May. I am down to 50% of the dose I was on. Horrible protracted withdrawals hit around 8 months into my taper – like really horrible. Pain, flu-like symptoms everyday, extreme fatigue, anhedonia, disassociation – I even had a grande mal seizure in my sleep that sent me to the ER and now have my license suspended due to that 😦
I am just coming out of it now I think. I will wait a while and have a few good months while I stabilize and heal from the first half of the taper – then I will continue again. Going to be a several year process. My creativity is going THROUGH THE ROOF though! I just wonder what I missed out on creating all these years while I was drugging away the sensitive parts of my nature…….
November 15, 2014 at 12:39 pm
I whole heartedly agree with Kat. I just spent 5 weeks in a rehab to get off an 8 year fog of Zoloft, Trazadone and Klonopin. I am still experiencing the symptoms of withdrawls after two months of nothing in my system. I stay away from alcohol, benedryl, cold medication and any other mood altering drug because i don’t want the roller coaster to start again. I had the anger from within that looked for a target. I lost my husband by trying to get off of Zoloft. I will never let this drug back into my life. I think this is a global epidemic that will cause great harm to society in the near future. I’m fighting against vertigo and depression daily. I wouldn’t wish the withdrawl process on my worst enemy. I would advise anyone to stay away from any mood altering drug. Our brains don’t know how to handle them. Brain chemistry should NEVER be altered by a doctor prescribing drugs. The human brain can not discern between Zoloft or heroine. Drugs are drugs to the brain. Please stop the madness!!!
June 4, 2014 at 3:07 pm
This series of articles on SSRI has been a comforting godsend to me. Thanks so much James. I have a question::Can you still get antidepressant withdraw syndrome even while switching to another medication? This seems to be the case with me.
July 14, 2014 at 1:03 pm
Thanks for posting this. I am navigating through what I assume is antidepressant withdrawal and it hasn’t been easy. I’ve been searching the web, trying to find insight into what’s happening to me, both physically and mentally. In 2010 I was prescribed 20 mg. of Prozac to treat stress headaches that began after a job loss; at the same time I struggled with worsening symptoms of a chronic pain disorder, and my normal daily dose of Elavil was raised from 25 mg. to 75 mg. Although I felt OK emotionally on these drugs, my eating patterns changed markedly; I craved food constantly, in particular sugary foods, which eventually resulted in a weight gain of 60 lbs. After tapering off of Prozac completely and reducing Elavil to 50 mg. back in March, I just feel strange. I struggle with a lot of anxiety, suffer from random crying spells, and have a much reduced appetite; I’ve lost nearly 40 lbs. in four months. I also feel really unproductive. I used to exercise and create art, but lately I just feel stuck in neutral, unmotivated to do much of anything. Most of the “official” sites claim that withdrawal syndrome only lasts a few weeks at most, but clearly my brain has still not adjusted to the change. I wish I knew when things will start to improve.
May 29, 2012 at 1:51 am
Thank you so much for this article. I’ve fowarded it to friends and family so they can have a better understanding as to what is going on with me. Very well written.
June 3, 2012 at 9:38 pm
Can we sue the pharmaceutical companies and the Doctors who hand out and prescribe SSRI meds like they are candy? Without warnings?
These damn withdrawals almost killed me and made me lose my mind!!!!!!
November 3, 2012 at 7:57 am
I haven’t lost my mind nor nearly died but I totally understand. My suspicion that the family doctor is often just a pusher for big p[h]arma is confirmed. Just like other dealers I have dealt with they neither know or care what is in their product.
January 9, 2013 at 6:30 pm
I wouldn’t go so far to say they are pushers, so much as “educated” by the pharma rep. They believe what they are told, the rep makes it all sound so reasonable. I’m sure for some people an SSRI is a life saver, but so many of us are prescribed it when it is inappropriate – as we NOW know. I had a situational depression (life stressors got way out of hand) and was put on Zoloft. Felt great, and have to admit I still feel great on it except for the 25 pounds that showed up so quickly it never even registered on the scale! But I now know that situational depression is exactly that…related to particular circumstances and not necessarily a “chemical imbalance,” which is how it was sold to me. I don’t want to be drugged for ever (14 years so far!!!) and hope this time my efforts to quit pay off. I am hoping the supplements I am using will be helpful longterm.
February 7, 2013 at 7:48 pm
Hi, ive been reading your posts and find them really helpful.. At the moment i am withdrawing from citalopram, i have been on this for 12years and am really scared right now, i have bad withdrawal symptoms .any advice would be appreciated .
February 9, 2013 at 3:27 pm
The best way to deal with bad withdrawal symptoms is to slow down or pause your taper. It seems like there is no avoiding withdrawal, but you can minimize the symptoms by slowing down. I still get stiff joints, obsessive thoughts, and the other withdrawal symptoms, but they are much, much milder than they were before. In fact, I really have to pay attention to notice them, sometimes. Hang in there, withdrawal stinks.
June 5, 2012 at 7:29 am
Reblogged this on My Experience of Withdrawal from Paxil and commented:
This blog really helped me cope yesterday. I figure if it helps me cope, it might help someone else.
June 8, 2012 at 7:13 am
This has been the worst 12 days. The nausea is the worst and the sudden flashes of intense heat make it even more unbearable. It never even occured to me that I would suffer so, until I Googled SSRI wthdrawal. While I’m happy to be rid of the meds, I wouldn’t recommend going cold turkey to anyone. Just curious, how long will these symptoms last?
June 8, 2012 at 7:59 am
The length of time that symptoms last varies from person to person. Paxil withdrawal can be protracted and intense, or mild and short. If you are experiencing intense symptoms, it may be best to go back to a lower dose of Paxil and slowly wean yourself from there.
We can’t sue the drug manufacturers for SSRI withdrawal. There’s nothing legal preventing us from suing, but the burden of proof is on the patients. Most experts agree that people who experience withdrawal after stopping SSRI use are really seeing the emergence of a pre existing condition. Intuitively, I don’t think this is the case. I never experienced the breadth and severity of symptoms before or after I tried to wean myself off Paxil. In my mind, that directly relates withdrawal with those symptoms. It’s ironic. We don’t question a person when they say that a street drug or alcohol is causing withdrawal, but prescription drugs like Paxil are presumed to be withdrawal free. Paxil shares many mechanisms with street drugs in the way it acts on neurotransmitters, but without the overt narcotic effect. I think that if Paxil made you “high”, withdrawal would be more accepted.
September 21, 2012 at 9:24 pm
Hi,
I know I’m kind of late to the game here but I found this blog while researching SSRI withdrawal. I believe I am experiencing it and have experienced it several times in the past when trying to get off of SSRI’s. Every failed attempt for me has lead to the same thing, the doctor’s telling me “See you need this drug. The anxiety is coming back because you stopped the drug.” so I get back on the drug. I, however, like you, have never had symptoms this severe before starting the drug. I actually had extremely mild anxiety, at least compared to what I’m experiencing now. My symptoms are debilitating and leave me unable to function. I guess I’m just posting in response to this article to try to better understand where you found the information in the article or if your speaking from personal experience. What intrigued me the most about the article was the statement that the symptoms that arise from withdrawal are literally uncontrollable and almost irrational for the person as opposed to a person with a brain that hasn’t been chemically altered by SSRI’s.
September 22, 2012 at 7:15 pm
Some of the information here is from experience, some is from research. It took a long time to sort through the reasons why I was having so much trouble stopping Paxil. I’ve never experienced the emotions that I did while fast tapering Paxil. Not before or since. Like you, I started taking Paxil for a mild diagnosis, social anxiety in my case. Despite having my history and diagnosis in my file, my doctor tried to tell me that my withdrawal symptoms were an existing illness. It was obvious to me that it was not a normal part of social anxiety. It was the nature of the emotions that really stood out for me. Normally, emotions arise in response to some external event or interaction. Withdrawal emotions are different in that they arise fully formed, then the mind tries to provide some external context to explain the sudden anger, depression, anxiety, or fear.
After I reinstated Paxil at a lower dose, the symptoms largely disappeared within a couple days. That points strongly to an addictive reaction. After that, I started to read about SSRI. The difference between my doctor and the manufacturers’ assertion that SSRI don’t cause dependence and my experience prompted me to start writing about it. If you would like more information about slow tapering off an SSRI, I’ve written a post about on this blog. I’m glad you found the information useful.
January 5, 2013 at 8:11 pm
How long can these symptoms last??? I have been off of sertraline for 11 months and I am still having serious issues…. Anger brain zaps(they are nowhere near as bad as when I first kicked but still annoying) headaches fatigue etc etc etc… Anything I can do to alleviate these symptoms or do I need to seek a psychiatrists help?
September 23, 2012 at 1:32 pm
You’ve done an extraordinary job, npanth.
September 23, 2012 at 7:50 pm
Thanks, Altostrata, I’m sorry I haven’t been very active on your website. I keep intending to write there, but wind up lurking instead. You have very good discussions going that I follow. In the last year, I almost feel like I’ve taken an undergraduate course in pharmacology, neurophysiology, psychology, politics, and government. I’m mostly trying to organize what I’ve learned in my mind, so I don’t write as much as I’d like.
September 23, 2012 at 8:05 pm
Any of the articles about withdrawal you’ve posted on your blog would be welcome! I especially like your insights about how withdrawal magnifies emotions.
July 15, 2012 at 1:36 pm
I have taken Lexapro for over 10 years for anxiety. I started taking the generic on June 28 and by July 5th I was a basket case. Went back to taking Lexapro again on july 7. I have had bad withdrawal from the generic while the brand name build up in my system. How much longer will this go on? It has been a week and is somewhat better, but I figured it would be gone by now!
July 15, 2012 at 2:45 pm
It’s hard to say how long you will experience symptoms. I’ve read some reports of people who have problems switching to generics from the name brand. Apparently, there can be some differences in the inactive ingredients, even the distribution of active ingredients inside the pills. The effects of an SSRI are somewhat delayed, so you may still be experiencing a reaction to the generic. Like the initial start up period, it may be another couple weeks before you start to feel the effect of the original drug. SSRI also have a “Garden of Eden” effect. Once you stop taking an SSRi, reinstating will not produce the same effect. Your situation is different since you didn’t stop taking the drug altogether. Give it some time before thinking about making other changes, these drugs act in the long term, so patience is important. Good luck, I hope you feel better soon.
July 20, 2012 at 11:17 am
Excellent explanation. Had not heard of Garden of Eden effect. Thanks.
Are you familiar with Survivingantidepressants (dot) org?
B
July 20, 2012 at 11:31 am
Yes, survivingantidepressants is a great site. I coined the Garden of Eden effect as a way of describing the reduced effect that reinstating SSRi seem to have on long term users. For some reason, the drugs don’t have the same efficacy after discontinuing use and restarting. In my mind, reinstating shouldn’t be a strategy for restarting an antidepressant, but rather a way to make tapering more tolerable.
July 23, 2012 at 2:13 pm
I agree completely! Very good advice, npath, thanks for posting this and helping get the word out about the need for tapering.
November 6, 2012 at 5:25 pm
The ‘Garden of Eden’ effect may also apply to MAOIs. The enormously gifted writer David Foster Wallace transitioned (for a variety of reasons) from the MAOI Nardil to an SSRI. His depression spiraled and couldn’t be controlled with ‘new’ drugs. At some point he was placed back on Nardil, which had worked relatively well for him for many years. Tragically, the drug was no longer effective and his depression deepened. Within months the literary giant died by his own hand.
November 6, 2012 at 6:01 pm
If you closely read the detailed article in the New Yorker a couple of years ago by DT Max about David Foster Wallace’s death, you will see that Wallace killed himself after 1.5 years of Nardil withdrawal syndrome, during which he was treated with various drugs, which he believed were making him worse.
This is not unusual in antidepressant withdrawal syndrome.
If he had only known this is what he had, instead of a new, virulent, untreatable psychiatric disorder — which, apparently, is what he was told — he might not have killed himself.
July 20, 2012 at 7:11 pm
I’ve been off celexa for almost 2 months now. Im 29 years old. I was taking it for generalized anxiety and had been taking it for a total of 7 months. I tapered for about 2 weeks and then stopped completely of my own decision bc i didnt like the way i felt on it. I have experienced the brain zaps, the extra anxiety, the sadness, the ups and downs you mentioned in your article. I’ve been able to control these emotions but it’s very hard. It’s been 2 months this week and the brain zaps have decreased but still are there. And worst worst part of this “withdrawal” personally has been the weight gain. I’ve had a rapid weight gain in the last 2 months of about 15lbs. Nothing in my diet had changed, I eat healthy and exercise regularly. A lot of weight gained in the mid section and upper thighs of my body. When i originally went on celexa I also gained weight, not as bad probably 5-10lbs. I can handle the emotions but the weight gain is awful and stressful on my body. Any advice on how long it could last? What I can do besides diet? Do you think eventually my body will regulate and this weight will come off? Any advice is much appreciated, I wish I had never gone on this drug, it’s been an awful experience overall and I feel like it minimally helped my anxiety.
July 20, 2012 at 7:18 pm
Forgot to add that I’m in good health with no other comorbidities. In fact I just had bloodworm done the week I started tapering and according to my doctor I’m physically in great health so I know the weight gain is not due to anything else except the celexa
July 21, 2012 at 10:26 am
Most people respond to SSRI use with weight changes. Usually, they gain weight while on the drug, and lose it when they stop. Each person is unique, though, so your reaction may be part of the process. Since you can’t find any other factor in your life that could explain the sudden weight change, it’s most likely related to your use of Celexa. You were on the drug for a relatively short time, so the effects should be short lived. It’s hard to say exactly how long you will have to deal with it, but it shouldn’t be a long term issue. Usually, symptoms related to SSRI use do not extend beyond the initial length of treatment, which is encouraging. Weight fluctuates at a slower pace than other symptoms, but you should find that it stabilizes in the long term.
In the mean time, keep your regular routine of exercise and dieting. You want to balance your weight concerns with emotional issues. Withdrawal can exaggerate self image concerns. It’s a subtle symptom. Try to be mindful that the weight is probably an issue that you will only have to deal with for a short time. Don’t change your dieting routine attempting to overcome the drug issues for a while, you would be fighting an uphill battle. Let your body work through the changes from stopping the SSRI before worrying about the weight, it will most likely work itself out. Good luck 🙂
July 22, 2012 at 6:25 pm
Thank you!!!
February 9, 2013 at 5:40 pm
Krista,
I see that you wrote this in July of last year. Right now I’m where you were then, about 2 months off of Celexa, around your age, gained about 10 or maybe more pounds. I am so happy to hear that someone else has gone through the same thing, not that I would wish it upon anyone else but because I know I’m not doing anything differently in my diet besides not taking Celexa and I have never been this heavy. I’ve always been slender and now I have this extra fat on my thighs/hips/butt area and I always look and feel bloated, it’s so weird and disturbing and my confidence has plummeted. I’m wondering if you are back to your normal self now and if so how long did it take? Thanks!
Jen
February 9, 2013 at 7:59 pm
I was at the bottom about a year ago. Things have improved dramatically since then, both compared to withdrawal and my Paxil self. I’m better able to manage emotions, my weight has stabilized, and my symptoms are much milder. It seems like it takes a long time to get there, and it does, but it still happens faster than you think. Try your best to keep at it. It doesn’t seem like there is a reward for enduring withdrawal. I certainly didn’t think there would be back then. There is, though.
July 24, 2012 at 10:37 pm
I’m finally successfully withdrawing from long-term Lexapro use and am almost there. This is my second attempt. I learned that I HAVE to treat my condition naturally in order to cope with the severe withdrawal symptoms. This is what worked for me:
1. treat the low serotonin with 2 snacks during the day (eat a fruit high in tryptophan like a banana and grapefruit and NOTHING else for the snack). You can also take a trytophan supplement and vitamin B complex once a day. Get plenty of sunshine
2. treat the low GABA by completely avoiding caffeine, downing green tea, and eating GABA rich meals like oatmeal. SSRIs lowered dopamine levels and raised GABA naturally. So many on SSRIs developed serious caffeine habits. When your body withdraws from SSRIs, it simply won’t handle caffeine well. A supplement like suntheanine could help too. Don’t cheap out – take suntheanine – no imitations.
3. exercise EVERYDAY until you’re completely finished withdrawing. Exercise that bounces you around like jogging especially helps. Yoga and deep breathing also help GABA levels. You will wake up every morning with a surge of stress hormones, and the only way to get these OUT is hard-core exercise.
4. drip-feed food until the dizziness and brain zaps are gone. Keeping food in your system and your blood sugar steady will help with the dizziness.
Obviously, this type of real information on withdrawing from the drugs will not be provided by the drug company LOL because it could put it out of business. I believe that EVERYONE who takes these drugs will have SEVERE withdrawal symptoms when quitting. I’m glad Lexapro was there during the time I took it, but I’m done with it now!!
July 26, 2012 at 7:41 pm
Hi, CD. I’m glad to hear your Lexapro taper is going well.
However, if you’re getting dizziness and brain zaps, those are signs your nervous system is under stress from your taper. Brain zaps are not minor withdrawal symptoms.
You may be going a bit too fast. I suggest you get Lexapro liquid (if you haven’t already) and slow your taper by making small decreases until your withdrawal symptoms are minimal.
I agree, keeping blood sugar constant can be very helpful while tapering — your body is under enough stress already from the dosage changes. It’s unlikely your snacks are doing anything for serotonin or GABA in your brain. About 90% of your serotonin is in your gut, and GABA as well as other neurohormones are self-regulating — the body is designed to keep them level.
July 26, 2012 at 9:52 pm
Altostrata: thanx for the advice. If I get a lot worse, I’ll consider taking a small dose to get me thru withdrawal 100%.
I would have to disagree that snacks do nothing for serotonin levels. Sure 90% of serotonin is in the gut – but the trick is getting tryptophan, a serotonin precursor, through the blood brain barrier. This can be done with a piece of fruit that’s high in tryptophan (yet low on other amino acids that compete to get through the blood brain barrier), B6, sugar (for that extra oomph to get through the barrier) and sun. Fruits eaten alone, like bananas, are HUGE for fixing my mood. After I eat them, I get a very mellow feeling, a typical feeling you get with elevated serotonin levels like after drinking a beer. In fact, studies have shown that tryptophan is as effective as an antidepressant with mild to moderate depression. IF everything was 100% self regulating and level, people would never suffer from seasonal affective disorder when shielded from the sun for long periods of time nor feel great after drinking a beer. Some people just need more serotonin precursors than others. It’s simply in their genetic code. SSRIs block the reuptake of serotonin. Why is the brain reuptaking serotonin to begin with? Partly to make other important substances like melatonin. So some brains may just ‘need’ or crave more tryptophan than others. That’s fine – I’ll just feed my brain extra tryptophan rather than blocking it from functioning properly…
This is just my opinion: If people are to withdraw from antidepressants, they MUST know how to treat their condition with another tool. Especially since the brain WILL WILDLY DIP in serotonin and GABA after withdrawing from a drug that elevated both artificially. I tried to withdraw once without doing any natural treatment, and almost went off the deep end as far as the depression and anxiety went. I had the full works – the rage, the deep depression, the crying spells, etc.etc. This time, I’m simply fine. The difference is night and day. Right now, I’m happy, but dizzy.
Oh – speaking of dizzy – what causes the withdrawal patient to be dizzy and lightheaded? I’ve read that it’s possibly caused by decreased blood flow to the brain. All recommendations for fainting help with this. If I lay down, it lets the blood go instantly to my brain, and my head can feel like it’s getting a good dose of oxygen again! Sometimes I’ll put my head between my knees and breathe, and that can help. Massaging the head and neck help increase the blood flow. But eating really is the best way to completely help alleviate the dizziness. It feels as if it takes twice as much energy to get enough blood and oxygen to the head during withdrawal.
July 27, 2012 at 1:29 pm
Oh, forgot to post this — the early morning surge of stress hormones (cortisol) is because when you are withdrawing, your system become stressed and sensitized. Naturally, there is an early-morning cortisol peak; in withdrawal, this is exaggerated and rather than giving you a nice wake-up call, you might get a surge of anxiety, panic, or doomy feeling.
Cortisol is a daytime hormone that is produced in concert with the light of dawn (as melatonin is produced with nightfall and darkness). To reduce the stimulation that may cause this early-morning surge, darken your bedroom with blackout shade or curtains and use a sleeping mask.
It’s worth it to do this because the more you can lower the stress on your nervous system, the faster you will heal from withdrawal.
With all due respect, CD, the “serotonin imbalance theory” is just as invalid when promulgated by alternative medicine as it is by allopathic medicine. I’m glad you are feeling good results from your strategy, but it’s likely not for the reasons you believe. We’ll have to agree to disagree on this.
January 9, 2013 at 8:17 pm
CD – I’d like to talk to you more about this someday, when I get ready to try and come off them again. Right now I’m back on them because I went into a Depression spiral and felt like getting institutionalized. If I could do it with natural helpers, I might be more apt to try again. Probably when it’s sunny, though. sarahjcarrato@gmail.com
May 4, 2013 at 11:14 pm
Hi I have been taking various SSRis for last 16 years Effexor, Zoloft, Luvox, Prozac but mostly Zoloft. Recently my specialist suggested tapering down and eventually stopping the Zoloft while taking a mood stabiliser as I felt the Zoloft was not helping and my mood swings were getting worse and harder to deal with. I have tried 2: Tegretol and Lithium. I could tolerate neither long term as the first one affected my balance but reduced chronic pain and the Lithium while initially very helpful led me to put on so much weight that the extra pain on my joints was making my chronic pain issues worst. Not only that I started to mentally completely slow down to the point that I could not function and cope with household stuff like washing, cooking without feeling terribly confused, let alone work in my business. One day in January this year while watching the surf life saving competitions (I used to be a very active person ) I decided enough was enough. Even though I was diagnosed with depression when I was 19yrs (it was called nervous disorder in the mid 80s) and i had take time out from my work and my university studies (i was put on a tricyclic antidepressant for 6 mths) in 1987 and then no drugs until prescribed in 1997 i always found my way back innately with EXERCISE. So i could not agree more with this post. Deal with the anxiety first by ridding the body of excess adrenaline and then you will SLEEP. Catch up on your lost sleep, reset your circadian clock by exposing your self with MORNING SUN or use the a light machine on days when there is less light. when you SLEEP better the depression lifts and you get a natural high from endorphins from exercise. I have had terrible withdrawal symptoms with the brain zapping, weird sensations in my head and neck that have been hard to explain not pain but like a shock and left me heading for the ER last week and I wonder if our brains are resetting themselves like a computer has to reboot. LISTEN to your body REST when your fatigued. The intensity of the brain zapping is lessening it has been about 3 weeks since I stopped but tends to come back worst at night, SWIM, CYCLE and RUN at a sensible pace. BY God I hope it does not take as long as some of the other people I have read on this post. I remember a previous Dr specialist telling me that SSRIs are not addictive and that they can even help prevent dementia. I am a trained scientist with some pathology training and I think we have been sold the biggest lot of BULLSHIT. If SSRIs are not addictive why have so many people been experiencing such horrid symptoms when they stop. People go back on them because they cant stand the withdrawal symptoms. I know I have tried before to stop then and have been tempted again when the symptoms are really disabling but I am bloody determined to let my body repair itself. I am going to try the Magnesium to see if that helps. It is definitely better when I lie down I think the pro-prioreceptors in the cerebellum are freaking out when the active ingredient is not there. Any way if this reads like a rambling piece I will put that down to the withdrawal syndrome as I used to have my thought and words more logical and easier to obtain I think before I started taking SSRIs, I think we should start an action class litigation against the drug manufacturers for the disability these drugs cause in the name of treating “depression”.
May 6, 2013 at 5:57 pm
Unfortunately, pharmaceutical companies have been largely indemnified against lawsuits based on withdrawal. Most of the evidence in lawsuits is withheld from public transcripts. That may change in the future if more of the privately held studies become public. Companies can hold study results at the present time, and only publish studies that are favorable to their approval bid. That limits the kind of information available about the drugs.
The percentage of people who experience SSRI withdrawal is hotly debated. The companies claim that only 2-5% experience withdrawal. Some other studies claim that 30-50% experience withdrawal. I suspect that the truth is somewhere in between, maybe 15-25%. That’s still a lot of people who have severe problems getting off these drugs. I wish companies would study withdrawal more, not for litigation purposes, but just to make it easier to get information for people having trouble.
I agree that exercise can really help in withdrawal. I tried to go out on walks, I even played wii games when I felt like I had to stay in. Just getting out of the chair, out of bed, or off the floor, was helpful. I think your determination will help you in withdrawal. Hang in there, the zaps are tough, but they usually don’t last very long (for most people). Be careful of some of the emotional issues that can crop up after the zaps, though. Depression, anger, and even self harmful thoughts can start to appear. If it gets really bad, consider reinstating on Zloft and tapering slowly from there. It’s hard to go back on the drug after realizing how much of your thoughts and well being it controls. Reinstating is a second chance to taper slowly, though. Some people only go through a short period of withdrawal. Hopefully, that will be your experience.
May 6, 2013 at 8:00 pm
Officially, the rate of antidepressant withdrawal syndrome is 20%-80%, see the frequently cited Fava, 1997 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9396960 and Rosenbaum, 1998 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9646889 For a more recent overview, Renior, 2013 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3627130/ Very little study has been done in prolonged antidepressant withdrawal syndrome.
August 2, 2012 at 3:38 am
Thank you for sharing your insights on the subject of SSRI use and tapering. It is much appreciated. My history of SSRI use is short, one 10mg of Paxil from December 2011 to Feb 2012, and then tapering down to 4mg at present. But I am getting a variety of withdrawal effects including head noises and pressure, fatigue, tingling nerves, morning and afternoon anxiety, etc. So I’m holding steady at my current dose.
I have read all your SSRI posts with interest and I am using your knowledge as reference both for myself and fellow weaners. If you have anything more to say on the subject I’m ready to lap it up. One question, what do you think about the effectiveness of supplements such as Omega 3, magnesium, etc. on easing WD symptoms?
August 2, 2012 at 9:10 am
You were on Paxil for a very short time. Usually, most people can taper off the drug in a shorter time than the original treatment period. Still, if you find that you’re sensitive to the drug, taper at your own pace. The most important part of tapering is to do it at a pace that minimizes symptoms. I’m sorry that you’re having trouble tapering. The symptoms you describe are consistent with SSRI withdrawal.
I’ve tried a few different supplements to help with tapering, but haven’t had much success with them. I’ve tried fish oil, multivitamins, and magnesium supplements. I haven’t noticed much of a difference. I think that a balanced diet probably helps withdrawal symptoms just as well as a specific supplement. It’s worth a try, though. I’ve read that other people have found symptom relief from Magnesium supplements. I’m hesitant to rely on supplements because there is some risk of pushing the dependence from one drug to another. Most of the compounds that alleviate symptoms act with similar mechanisms to Paxil. I’d stay away from any supplement that directly affects the Serotonergic system, like 5-htp.
August 2, 2012 at 12:55 pm
In general, people on my site do well with fish oil and magnesium supplements (as well as Epsom salts baths; magnesium absorbed through the skin.
I agree, if you are sensitive to dosage changes, taper by smaller amounts, even a fraction of a milligram a month, to keep your nervous system relatively stable. Paxil liquid, if you can get it facilitates a very gradual taper; use a tiny .5mL or 1mL oral syringe to measure small doses.
January 18, 2013 at 5:49 am
I was happy to find this Very informative blog. My husband has taken different ssris ( fluoxetine, currently) for about 10 years having been perscribed them after a physical attack. A year after which panic attacks and anxiety developed. H has come to depend on them but uses exercise alot as his other drug. I know he would dearly love to ditch the ssri but whenever he stopped the anxiety returns and so he knows the needs these tablets. He hasnt tried to wean off gently properly. Hes a very all or nothing person. Following your advice here i shall sugest the 10% permonth.
Recently he has swapped and changed a bit after visiting a different chemist and felt as though the tablets werent working properly. Can you explain what you mean by garden of eden effect? Also he has been trialing a suppliment of magnesuim for sport to help with recovery whilst carrying on with his regular ssri tablets. The mag worked well for the muscle fatigue when he stopped he fely similar anxiety and dizzyness like when you have low blood pressure. Obviously i talk him through these sorts of symptoms from time to time and i am sure the mag has effected him, better or worse?? Any advice you can give apperciated. I would like not to habe to worry about depending on perscriptions ect. Which websites is yours. Please direct me.
Many thanks , big help!
January 18, 2013 at 3:22 pm
I use the Garden of Eden effect as a way to describe the way that SSRI seem to be more effective the first time a patient takes them. For some reason, the drugs don’t seem to be as effective when a person reinstates after a failed taper attempt. I think there is a mental naivete that keeps us from seeing the effects that the drug is having on us the first time we take them. After tapering off the drug, those changes become apparent as the mind returns to normal. That experience makes the drug less effective when the patient tries to reinstate. When I had to reinstate, I was very aware of the changes that the drug was making. I could feel my mind slowing down again. It felt like a wet blanket was smothering my thoughts. I didn’t recognize what was happening when I first started taking Paxil. The people around me noticed, though. They all say that I “checked out” about ten years ago, and the “old me” is starting to come back now.
I can understand the desire to be off these drugs quickly. It can be very frustrating to realize that the drug you were relying on to help you has had other, less perceptible, side effects on you cognition and creativity. It is important to taper slowly, though. even if you’re determined to get off the drug, it’s very hard to do it quickly. The symptoms of a fast taper are unbearable. It’s hard to say if your husband is experiencing poop out or a change in formulation. Poop out is when you reach tolerance for the drug. It’s similar to other drugs in that respect. Just as a cocaine user needs more and more of the drug to get the same effect, SSRI users often find that they have to steadily increase their dose to get the same effect. The difference with SSRI is that tolerance happens over the course of years instead of months. There are also differences between the formulations of the patented drug and its generic alternative. By law, they have to have the same active ingredient, but there are allowable variances in the distribution of the chemical within the tablet and which fillers can be used. He may be having a reaction to one of the new fillers that are in the generic.
I only tried Magnesium for a little while in withdrawal along with multi vitamins and fish oil. After a month or so, I decided that I would just taper without supplements. They weren’t making a significant difference for me. I’ve read that they can help people, though, so I don’t recommend against using them. I think the most important thing to do when trying to change dosages or supplements is to do so slowly, giving the body a chance to adjust to the changes. I hope he feels better.
June 11, 2013 at 5:12 pm
Look into Nutritional Response Testing. It has truly saved my life and is very helpful in my attempt at getting off anti-depressants of over 15 years use. I am not there yet but there is no way I could have come this far without the nutritional support. Thanks to Dr. Schmidt for all his support at the Nutritional Healing Center of Ann Arbor Michigan. I am about 6 months clean from anti- depressants but I have to seriously think about restarting my anti depressants, due to the stress it is causing to my family and then weaning slowly, like Dr. Schmidt told me to do. He actually has a few other things we are going to try first. Good luck to all.
September 28, 2014 at 6:33 am
It’s called “poop out”. The drug works but for some reason no longer has the effect it had the first time round, as though the brain develops an adaptive response to it. I learned the term from reading on neuroleptics at the time my doctor suggested them for my moods. I’m bloody glad I did read first because those things screw up everything in your brain and body, making SSRI’s seem like smarties in comparison. I was really angry after reading about them in a psychopharmacology manual. I think doctors should try these drugs before claiming they are safe and prescribing them.
August 8, 2012 at 9:27 pm
Npanth, thanks very much for your reply. Like you, I’ve tried a variety of supplements and not found a magic bullet. It may be that taking nothing that stimulates or sedates the central nervous system is the best course during the withdrawal period. Certainly, anything that directly affects the neurotransmitters is inadvisable as this will tend to keep the system out of balance. On the subject of food, I probably eat as well as anybody because my wife and I grow most of our own vegetables as well as potatoes and rice, and we avoid processed food to a large extent. This may make a positive difference, but we shouldn’t expect too much because I think the power of SSRIs to mess with the brain trumps anything that supplements or healthy eating can do for us.
August 2, 2012 at 8:41 am
I have successfully withdrawn from these drugs with the strategy I listed above. I have been off them for close to 2 weeks, and I quit cold turkey. I could not have done it without my tryptophan supplements and without being cautious about my caffeine intake during the days I felt severe stress hormones. I also exercised a ton and soaked up a lot of sun. There were about 2-3 occasions where my mood dipped severely. At that point, I would take a tryptophan supplement, eat a snack, and take a breather in the sun. After 15-20 minutes, I would be 100% better. The mood swings from withdrawal are wild, but can be controlled.
My friend is a doctor. He said the dizziness from the withdrawal may be “orthostatic hypotension”, or super-low blood pressure. He said my practices of frequent meals and laying down when the dizziness got out of hand were great strategies. He also suggested lots of salt and water intake. This definitely has helped. I got a blood pressure test a couple of days ago at a marathon expo, and the lady said I had the lowest blood pressure of all the people she tested that day (she tested about 100 people). After eating a series of MSG chinese meals, my dizziness has improved a lot.
August 2, 2012 at 12:58 pm
Some people can quit antidepressants with little or no withdrawal symptoms. You are fortunate to be one of them. However, others suffer A LOT of neurological damage from going cold turkey, which is why, universally, cold turkey is a terrible idea.
The nervous system is not made of rubber. Causing damage to it by withdrawing too fast can cause you problems for a very long time.
Supplements do not protect the nervous system from cold turkey. These drugs are much more powerful than any supplement.
November 3, 2012 at 8:26 am
What about brain plasticity though?
Thankfully I read Doight’s “The brain that changes itself” recently, helped immensely with my anxieties about my withdrawal symptoms & permanent damage. It is an uplifting & hopeful theory that is yielding fantastic results.
August 2, 2012 at 9:25 pm
I tried a few years ago to taper off of Zoloft. The symptoms were so horrible that I have never tried again. I will take an SSRI until the day that I die. I take it like a diabetic would take insulin. It’s now just a maintenance medication that I need to function properly. I have taken it for 20 years and, since I am almost always happy and content, why would I do anything to disrupt that? I have no side effects after all of these years. I figure that if any damaging long term effects were to occur that I would start seing them at this point. And if those effects come later, because the onset would be so slow, I will probably be too old to care or on my way out anyway! Have I given in after all of this time? I guess so. Am I regretting it 20 years later. Not anymore…
August 3, 2012 at 6:20 pm
I try not to universally condemn SSRI. My goal in writing these articles is to provide information about the process of weaning off SSRI to people who want to do so. I do have personal doubts about the efficacy of these drugs, but would not condemn a person who feels that they are helping them.
My issues with antidepressants stem from the reckless way they are prescribed and the intentional lack of information about withdrawal and discontinuation that is provided by regulators and manufacturers. I feel that it’s an informational vacuum that should be filled.
August 3, 2012 at 10:25 pm
I didn’t mean to step on your message because I support all of the people who were able to get off of them and it’s important topic of discussion. And, yes, if I could go back in time, I would have wished that I had never been prescribed an SSRI. But, it is what it is…
August 4, 2012 at 7:24 am
Not to worry. Discussing SSRI use is part of the process. The first decision that people have to make is whether or not it is best for them to keep using SSRI or attempt to taper off them. It’s not an easy decision. There are a lot of people who feel like you do. I felt the same way for a long time. Withdrawal is tough. For me, the balance didn’t tip in favor of tapering until Paxil pooped out. It lost its efficacy for me about 7 years ago. Instead of working as intended, it exacerbated my symptoms and added several other side effects. My regret is that I waited for years before deciding to taper off Paxil. The experience left me with a bit of bitterness that leaks into my comments from time to time, sorry.
October 9, 2012 at 8:05 am
Each SSRI has unique w/drawal challenges.More sedating than other SSRIs,and a more potent dopamine uptake inhibitor than other SSRIs, Zoloft is more like a benzo w/drawal than other SSRIs The acute anxiety induced by Zoloft w/drawal greatly amplifies the other w/drawal symptoms. Npanth’s comment re. the unique anger that arises from SSRI withdrawal also applies to the emotion of fear: Fear forms independently in the mind. Instead of rising in response to an external event, withdrawal causes fear without context. The nonspecific, drug induced fear caused by w/drawal seeks a cause and focuses on the other w/drawal symptoms. This makes symptoms such as vertigo, nausea and cognitive/perceptual distortions more frightening. I liken it to taking methamphetamine with LSD (not that anyone would be stupid enough to do that)
August 8, 2012 at 9:38 pm
There was no bitterness in your comments. While it’s only natural that your experiences have left you exasperated or soured on the subject of SSRIs, you are a model of patience, moderation and gentleness. Also, as someone who has suffered the misery of “poop out” you understand the potential for these drugs to suddenly “pull the rug out” from the user, an attribute that makes them unsuitable as a permanent option for mood control.
Perhaps a small minority of users will never be able to stop taking SSRIs, but for the great majority who can do so with a suitably slow and gentle taper, the best course is to start the journey well before poop out hits.
August 9, 2012 at 7:55 am
Thank You. I try to keep my experience with SSRI in mind when I comment or write. I had a much different mindset, then. It’s remarkable how profound the changes in attitude, cognition, and self awareness are on these drugs. I really didn’t realize that Paxil was losing its effectiveness. I absolved the drug of any role in my problems and ascribed them to some failing or illness on my part. It wasn’t until I started to wean off the drug that I realized how dramatically it had changed my mind. I can compare how I was then to the emerging self that I see now. While I was on a full dose of Paxil, I would get inconsolably depressed every 4-6 weeks, like clockwork. It would build up over the course of a few days, last about a week, then taper off over a few days. Other than the episodic, acute, depression that I experienced during withdrawal, I don’t get that steady drumbeat of depression anymore. It seems obvious to me that Paxil was causing me to get depressed. At the time, I felt that Paxil was the only thing keeping that steady depression from becoming a chronic, debilitating, condition. How could I know? So, I try not to dismiss anyone taking SSRI. Part of me screams in my mind “Get off this poison!”. I keep reminding myself that the goal isn’t to start an argument, but to provide information and encouragement. Arguing just entrenches everyone in their positions and leads nowhere.
I agree with you that it’s very hard to recognize poop out, thanks for your kind comment.
August 9, 2012 at 1:02 pm
I also experienced poop-out, after adverse effects.
After about a year on Paxil, I got more and more sluggish, apathetic, and demotivated — all known adverse effects of SSRIs, but of course unrecognized by the psychiatrist I consulted. He then tried to directly switch me to Lexapro, with disastrous results.
After experiencing severe Paxil withdrawal syndrome and overstimulation from Lexapro, I got off Lexapro quickly and went back to Paxil. This resolved the withdrawal symptoms, but I still had the adverse effects described above and, after about a year, found myself occasionally spontaneously weepy for no reason.
My conclusion was the Paxil had pooped out. I then tried to go off it again…the rest is history. I tapered too fast and have had Paxil withdrawal syndrome and sequelae since October 2004.
Since then, I’ve become more or less an expert on tapering and run a Web site offering information about it and peer support — click on my icon to see it.
August 9, 2012 at 5:13 pm
I remember the apathy and sluggishness. I would drink coffee, soda, energy drinks, whatever I could find to give me energy. I still fell asleep every morning. I never really put it together with Paxil until I started tapering off.
January 18, 2013 at 6:11 am
Do you think this is what my husband is experiencing then. The drug after 10-12 years failing to work any more, after using a different brand without knowing? How do you explain the garden of eden effect? So realistically he will need to start the weaning process in case the drug will not work again?
Advice appreciated. Many thanks.
June 24, 2014 at 7:26 am
What about tricyclic AD’s like Mirtazapine? A lot of discussion and withdrawal symptoms are about SSRI’s. Can some please also add information about other AD’s. Thank you.
August 14, 2012 at 5:54 pm
Does anyone have any suggestions for going from 1 mg to zero? I’ve tried to get off paxil twice and this is where I get the worst withdrawal symptoms. The last time I withdrew I made it to 43 days without paxil, but had to go back on because the dizziness and fatigue were so bad
August 14, 2012 at 7:07 pm
Paxil comes in a liquid. Use a 1mL oral syringe to measure doses in as small as .01mg decrements. Yes, some people need to do this to get off psychiatric drugs! Paxil is a prime offender for withdrawal difficulties.
August 23, 2012 at 1:12 am
Hi fellow sufferers. I was so unfortunate to get on the hook of the most notorious SNRI Cymbalta, which is known for the worst withdrawal symptoms affecting the most of people taking it. Like other people, I had no clue what kind of “bomb” is ticking until I was deeply into the process of weaning off, and I was doing it in a comletely wrong way as I know now, not quickly but skipping the days. It took me about 8 ms. I had been on the “evil” drug for 6.5 years, I am off since March, experiencing the horrible roller-coaster of symptoms, fluctuating but not subsiding a bit. All my pre-existing conditions have exacerbated drastically – asthma, allergic rhinitis, GERD, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, etc. I didn’t have brain “zaps” but rather my ears get plugged and sometimes there is an annoying ringing sound, can’t tolerate any noise and aquired persistent insomnia. Also, I lost the smell and taste sensations. Extreme irritabitily and anger are through the roof. The impact is so devastating that I live almost in isolation, scared to come close to people due to an uncontrolled and impulsive reaction. So far, there has not been any positive dynamics in the withdrawal process. I’ve even ordered a medication from overseas (produced in France) Stablon, which is supposed to treat depression and called SSRE (E stands for “enhancer”). But after having read James Heaney’s articles, I am scared to start on it. Npath and others, could you recommend anything. BTW, have tried tons of indicated supplements, healthy eating – no effect at all. Lost hope that this night/daymare would ever end or subside at least. Thank you
August 23, 2012 at 7:27 am
Many doctors recommend skipping days as a method for tapering off SSRI/SNRI. My doctor recommended the same method when I began tapering off Paxil. I hope that information about the pitfalls of this method become more widely known. Because most of these drugs have relatively short half lives, skipping doses puts the body into a cycle of being drugged and withdrawal. Combined with the very rapid schedules that most doctors give, withdrawal can be quite severe. The best method to taper off a psychotropic drug is to slowly decrease the dosage without skipping days. You’re not alone in coming to this realization after trying a doctor’s schedule. I believe they mean well, but don’t have sufficient information about the possible withdrawal problems that these drugs can cause.
Starting a new drug is usually problematic. Adding new drug effects to the symptoms you’re experiencing may actually make you feel worse. The problem is that your system is reacting to an imbalance. Changing that balance again with a new chemical may not work as intended. You have been off the drug for about 5 months, which is close to the break even point for reinstating. You could try to ride out the symptoms or try to reinstate Cymbalta. I’m not familiar with the specific problems that tapering off Cymbalta can cause. Check out http://www.paxilprogress.org and http://survivingantidepressants.org for specific advise on tapering. The good news is that you may not have to reinstate at your previous full dose to alleviate the worst withdrawal symptoms. You should be able to calculate your reinstatement dose by reducing your original dose by 10% each month to the present. That dose should be high enough to reduce your symptoms, but not higher than it needs to be. Hang in there. It feels very acute and permanent right now, but it does get better, and faster than you think possible.
August 23, 2012 at 1:09 pm
jane, you cannot treat withdrawal syndrome as if it were depression. It is something else entirely. I would caution you about taking any psychiatric drugs to counter withdrawal syndrome. Often, it sensitizes the nervous system has to neuroactive medications and supplements — even foods.
The alternating-doses method of tapering is second only to cold-turkey in eliciting severe withdrawal syndrome. It’s doctor folk wisdom, unsupported by any medical evidence. I very much wish they would stop doing this to their patients.
June 15, 2014 at 7:01 pm
Nutrigenomics could be of some help to you. You can google nutrigenomics or functional medicine to find a specialist in your area.
Personally I have several mutations in the methylation pathways – specifically the ones that support the production and destruction of neurochemcials, like dopamine and seratonin. (This explains the high incidence of depression, OCD, autism and schizophrenia in my family also). We are supporting those biochemicals pathways with metabolic intermediates and RNAs that allow my system to produce the enzymes required to be begin to function normally again.
So far just about a month off of zoloft (been taking it on and off over the years along with prozac.). Having some withdrawals symptoms, but manageable.
I’ll keep you posted.
July 18, 2015 at 1:48 pm
Here’s the update I promised you. I have now been off zoloft for nearly 1.5 years. Withdrawal got worse before it got better, flashes of unreasonable anger mainly. I learned to observe to emotion rather than get swept up in it. All those years of meditation paid off. Keeping up with the methylation support has made depression a non issue and I can function the way other people without depression function. Thank Dr Yasko and 23andme.com.
August 24, 2012 at 9:35 pm
Thank you for responding. I get your point, it does make sense to me but… There is no any antidote to this absolutely intolerable condition. I wouldn’t take a risk to reinstate the drug, just feel that some irreversible damage has been done to the brain – it behaves so erratically, unpredictably, totally out of control. One day you can’t get out of bed, another your head is so fuzzy and you are disoriented, confused; may be an acute rage phase has passed but anger is still so intense and irrational that you even lash out at an innocent child and then hate yourself. I’d compare (though remotely) this condition with a coincidence of a very bad flu(general malaise, alternating chills and hot flashes, bone numbing fatigue, sleep disturbances, etc) and a grief of having lost somebody very close to you. With the only difference that flu will pass in a visible time frame, even pain of loss fades with time, but these horrible withdrawal symptoms… hope has almost dissipated. I am very much familiar with living a life of very low quality due to Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and other ailments but I still had some control over it. Now, it’s like a semiparalyzed state and it can last for years. From other people stories and testimonies some don’t feel an improvement after 2-3 years, the longest I encountered was 13(!). Of course, you can’t reconcile with such a life sentence, and, sometimes impulsively, try different things (often only making harm) b/c there is nobody around who can help or knows what to do. It’s so obscure and each individual’s outcome is so different.
August 25, 2012 at 2:04 pm
jane, please visit http://survivingantidepressants.org for info and support. Your concerns are typical for someone suffering from prolonged withdrawal syndrome; there are answers on my site.
November 10, 2012 at 2:01 pm
Hi Altostrata,
I have been to your site, written up my “case” in introductions, and written several comments, but only received one response from Barbara. It was a nice response but didn’t offer any real advice. I’m doing ok, but if I were still in the desperate, answer seeking place emotionally, I would be freaking out that no one has really responded. Especially when many of us are struggling to communicate with our doctors. This seems to be a place of support and haven for a lot of us. I’m wondering if you could tell me, is this pretty normal for your site? Should I just be reading through old boards and finding answers there instead of waiting for someone to weigh in on my personal experience? Do people not interact much there? Is my case just too boring (that’s a joke)?
Thanks,
Sarah
November 10, 2012 at 3:24 pm
NJAMB — Not knowing what screen name you’ve posted under, I can’t fully answer. I’ve looked at the recent topics in the Intro section, and found one by “Sarah.” It was started 11/5 about 5pm PST and got 3 responses in about an hour. I responded the next day, 11/6, with some details about tapering. (For the sake of my own health, I try to stay off the computer at night.)
In all, it has 7 responses. If you had more questions, I’m sure they would be answered fairly quickly.
But, you’re right, if someone is having an emergency, they might not get a response immediately. I think you would find that true of any Web forum or blog.
November 10, 2012 at 4:01 pm
I wish WordPress wouldn’t require me to log in with my old blog info. It confuses things. The “Sarah” posts are probably me. I never got email notification that there was any response. I’ll have to check my settings. The one time I went into the site, it was just Barbara’s response I saw. Thanks.
August 25, 2012 at 9:14 pm
It can seem like it will be a very long term problem. Every person is different, though. I had a very hard time seeing the long term track of recovery when I was in the worst parts of withdrawal. When I was feeling anger and despair, it seemed like it would never go away. It does get better. There isn’t much that another person can say that will really change what you feel inside, but try to remind yourself that it will get better, and sooner than you think. It’s hard when you’re living minute by minute. Try to remember the times when you feel better, even if it’s just a little bit. Those moments will start to get more frequent and stronger. I’m sorry you’re feeling so bad, I remember what it was like. It’s not anything I would wish on anybody. I hope you feel better soon.
August 27, 2012 at 1:15 pm
i am new to blogging and want very much to get some opinions, other than my dr, on my symptoms. I have been on an SSRI for YEARS. Have weaned myself off of zoloft (years ago) and had to go back on it when my job got incredibly stressful. I then switched to celexa when zoloft felt like it wasnt working anymore. That went ok. I have been taking celexa for 2 and 1/2 years now. I feel again as though its not working very well and my dr switched me to wellbutrin. OMG! I feel as though I’m in another world. I’m dizzy, air-heady, out-of-it, nauseated, at times I can focus really well, but most of the time I can’t hardly get through a thought without zoning out. And my ears are ringing all the time and loudly. This feels like severe seratonin withdrawl to me. And I know that wellbutrin only deals with norepinephrine and dopamine. I started taking wellbutrin once daily and still taking half a dose of celexa. Did that for 2 weeks. Then stopped celexa and went to wellbutrin twice daily. My symptoms are pretty severe now. Sounds like I didn’t taper long enough? What do any or all of you think?
August 27, 2012 at 1:50 pm
You have withdrawal syndrome. You didn’t taper Celexa long enough. I suggest you go back on a half-dose of Celexa, stabilize for month, then taper very slowly. Plan on months rather than weeks.
Tinnitus is a common side effect of Wellbutrin, possibly aggravated by sensitization caused by withdrawal syndrome. If I were you, I’d go off Wellbutrin when you reinstate Celexa.
August 27, 2012 at 4:23 pm
Most doctors recommend very short tapering or switching schedules for SSRI. It seems to work for some people, but others don’t tolerate it very well. I agree with Altostrata that Celexa is the best way to approach this. You may be experiencing withdrawal from Celexa that isn’t being covered from your switch to Welbutrin, or start up symptoms from starting Wellbutrin, or perhaps both. Take some time to get stable again before you decide what your best option is. Stable doesn’t mean that all your symptoms go away, but it should take away the worst of your symptoms. You said that Celexa had reached a poop out stage where it wasn’t having the intended effect anymore, so you should consider tapering off of it slowly once you get stable. Check out Altrostrata’s site for instructions on the 10% tapering method. It seems like a very long schedule, but it’s the best way to maintain your quality of life while you taper.
August 27, 2012 at 4:07 pm
Altostrata, I did go to your web site a few times as well as other forums (there is one specifically for Cymbalta withdrawalers which is exactly my case). Thank you for setting and running the site. It’s very useful for people initially finding out what’s going on with them (I was in the darkness for so long and it’s terrible). But after having read thousands of stories I’ve come to realize that each individual is unique (of course, I knew that before, but I am talking now in respect to this particular condition, a degree of impact and chances and length of possible recovery) and what fits one person (or seem to help) doesn’t necessarily translate to be a useful for the other. Also, when I read so many truly horrible testimonies (they are ready to be presented in the court), I get not only more discouraged and pessimistic but they plant an unrelenting fear and sometimes panic in my soul. That’s my comments.
To npath: First, I’d like to express my admiration for your deep understanding of this condition and very insightful observations. (if that’s your articles by Janes Heaney). What surprise me though is your kind of acceptance of an almost pandemic wave of the cases (up to suicides and homicides due to the withdrawal inadequacy) that have been kept containes and secretive for so long. It seems inconceivable to me that the stories haven’t been mentioned anywhere – not even on the media, let alone a medical establishment involved. So people continue to get trapped in the web of psychiatric and pharmaceutical community. I’ve tried to find an open-minded, kind of a maverick in the field, got one referral and e-mailed her. Here is what she had to say:
“I don’t have experience treating this. I do not know whether or not it is real but suspect there are cases of it. You may wish to try some people in SF as there is no point driving to Berkeley unless I have more to offer than those in the city. Generally, the only way to treat is to restart a low dose of SSRI/SNRI.”
August 27, 2012 at 4:20 pm
jane, if you’re in San Francisco, you’re in luck. Write me survivingads at comcast dot net — I know of a doctor who can help you.
Yes, everyone is different. But if there was a silver bullet for withdrawal syndrome, I would tell everyone about it and close up my site.
The doctor you corresponded with is correct, restarting a low dose of the offending drug often reduces withdrawal symptoms. But it doesn’t always work, and the longer you wait until reinstatement, the less likely it will work.
Yes, the stories are distressing. The reality is distressing. It’s a failure of medicine that doctors allow this to happen to people and don’t know what to do about it.
August 27, 2012 at 4:49 pm
I’ve read the same stories. At one point, I wrote all my passwords on an envelope so my brother could figure out why I had died. I was, and am, very angry at a system that allows people to suffer like that. The problem is that SSRI withdrawal is considered to be a conspiracy theory. When you watch a Youtube video of someone describing their experiences withdrawing from an SSRI, that video is only two or three links away from New World Order/Depopulation conspiracy videos. According to the pharmaceutical companies and regulators, SSRI withdrawal doesn’t exist and can be explained by the emergence of a new or existing condition. Because of that narrative of denial, people who want to advocate for SSRI withdrawal sufferers have to be twice as right and half as angry.
August 27, 2012 at 4:58 pm
Very true, James. And understanding this betrayal by doctors, our safety net when we are injured, can be very traumatic. It’s too awful to be believed, but it’s the truth.
August 27, 2012 at 10:54 pm
Thank you for your replys on my situation. Since I wrote earlier today I took half a dose of my celexa and my symptoms have calmed down significantly. It makes me mad that my dr didn’t know nor warn me of the potential withdrawl but prescribes the change of medication. I’ve had some withdrawl symptoms in the past when changing meds, but this time it was becoming debilitating. I read where someone lost his job and girlfriend because of withdrawls. I can’t afford either of those.
After reading a lot of bloggs, I want to get off this stuff. I read that long term SSRI treatment can cause altered brain chemistry for life. That scared me. I always thought that when I would lessen the stress in my life that I could slowly stop the meds. ( It seems that my recurrent depression occures during highly stressful periods of my life. Maybe a major change in my priorities in life are up for consideration. ) I never dreamed that it was possible that I would not be able to stop taking this stuff.
August 28, 2012 at 8:55 am
That’s great. The silver lining is that you can be fairly certain that your symptoms are caused by withdrawal, not an existing condition. When symptoms abate almost immediately after taking a drug, that points to dependence.
I hated that out of control feeling I got when I started tapering on my doctor’s schedule. Unlike you, I wasn’t smart enough to slow down. I raced from 40mg/day to 0mg/day in 5 months, hitting every emotional rock along the way. I thought that I could just power through it and everything would work itself out when I got to the bottom. Two months after getting to 0, it all caught up with me and I had to reinstate at 10mg/day. That was January, 2012. Now, August 2012, I’ve been able to make three tapers. I’m at 7.5mg/day right now. Even when I went to my doctor in the worst parts of withdrawal, he still persisted in his rapid schedule. Despite having my history of social anxiety in front of him, he tried to tell me that my intense withdrawal was an existing psychosis that I needed Paxil to treat. Imagine a doctor telling you that you’re psychotic. Blech. I’ve never experienced symptoms like that before or since.
I’m not sure that SSRI can cause permanent changes in brain chemistry. Brain research is at an interesting point in history right now. We’re transitioning from the static model to the plasticity model. Up until this point, the theory has been that the brain remains relatively static after reaching adulthood. That is the origin of the idea that drug induced changes become permanent. It’s becoming more apparent that the brain reorganizes itself dynamically in response to changes in environment, etc. The act of reading this post changes your brain in small ways, causes it to rewire itself a little bit. When an SSRI blocks reuptake sites on neurons, the brain responds by growing more dendrites into those areas in an attempt to re-establish the Serotonin absorption capacity. The drug blocks those new sites and the process continues. When you stop taking the drug, all that excess Serotonin gets absorbed at once. Instead of having too much Serotonin in the interneural gap, there is too little. It takes the brain some time to adjust to the change, and lower its Serotonin absorption capacity.
August 28, 2012 at 1:11 pm
Just wanted to note: Celexa comes in a liquid for slow tapering. You may wish to stabilize on your current dose for a month or more, then very slowly decrease the dose. Think in terms of 2mg or even 1mg at a time. A 10% per month trial reduction for a couple of months will give you an idea of your tolerance for lowering the dosage.
August 27, 2012 at 11:48 pm
PS. I keep forgetting to ask you about your strategy in this tough battle after you’ve understood (to some extent, entirely it’s still impossible) the nature of such a chaotic process of misfiring in the brain. Since you insist not to interfere with any other drugs or supplements that may affect neurotransmitters, what’s left – just sit and wait for indefinite (perhaps, infinite time)?
August 28, 2012 at 9:18 am
I’ve tried to minimize stress, but I’ve also tried to put myself into social situations to test my progress. Looking back from my current perspective, I think that Paxil actually masked the fact that I was outgrowing my original diagnosis. Social interactions don’t have the same effect on me as they did before I started taking Paxil, but those symptoms persisted while I was on the drug. It’s an odd effect.
I decided to start tapering off Paxil after I was laid off. It was a good time to re-evaluate things in my life. I knew that I had become less empathetic, less self aware, more insular. I didn’t like the person I had become. Initially, I didn’t make the connection between Paxil and the strange sense of disconnection that I had developed. It wasn’t until my dose was much lower and I talked to some people who have known me from before I started Paxil that I realized what had happened. They all talk at length about the change they saw in me 11 years ago, and the way I seem to have reverted in the last year. It’s had a great impact on me. It gives me great motivation to taper off Paxil the right way, so I never have to go back to it again. It may take some time to get off Paxil entirely, but I’m willing to be patient to get the old me back.
October 8, 2012 at 10:21 am
I’ve been on Zoloft since it came out—20 years. I reduced dose from 100 to 50 years ago and it was the hardest thing I’ve ever done. A nightmare. I couldn’t conceive of going through that again so stayed on 50 mg. Then, a strange thing happened. I was switched unknowingly by the pharmacy to a different generic brand of sertraline. Long story short—I went into SSRI withdrawal. Since this was totally unexpected, at first I didn’t realize what was happening, since I assumed the generics were all the same. Since the wash out period of the previous brand and the onset of the new brand overlapped, it took about 2 weeks to understand what was happening. At day 10, at a Tai Chi class –I had a remarkable experience–a sudden burst of my “real self” – my real feelings came over me. In retrospect, I realized that the emmergence of real feleliings was a result ot SSRI withdrawal. It is only through this accidental withdrawal that I realized how much the SSRI had masked my real feelings, my real self. My first reaction was to go into default anger mode. I was outraged at the lie of “generic equivalence.” Now I am grateful for this “accident” because I am once again determined to get off this drug. But I will need help. I live in Seattle and will need to find a doctor who understands severe withdrawal symptoms. I cannot bear the thought of trial and error shopping for docs who then say withdrawal is a return of preexisting mental disorder or is an atypical reaction, unique to me—in other words, that I’m crazy. Before I realized what was happening, when I was in the midst of SSRI withdrawal caused by the switch in generic brands, I felt like I was having a mental breakdown. What really scares me the most is that if I try to go off this drug, if I can’t find a doc who understands the process, I will be perceived as insane due to misdiagnosis of what are for me extreme withdrawal symptoms.
August 28, 2012 at 3:34 pm
Thankyou to everyone for all your stories –as currently withdrawing from escitlopram -i felt like i was on my own and going off my head but now I know it’s the meds xxx
August 29, 2012 at 8:19 am
Thanks. I started writing about SSRI withdrawal because I was in the same position you were. I seemed to be the only person who thought it was the drug that was causing my withdrawal symptoms. My doctor completely absolved Paxil, when it was obvious to me that the drug was causing me a lot of problems. He prescribed another drug. I think that’s the only solution that doctors have to withdrawal. That leads to a downward spiral of dependence and disability. Who knows where I’d be if I had started that second prescription. I don’t think I would be nearly as well off if I was taking two drugs now.
August 29, 2012 at 12:04 am
Thank you npanth and altostrata for your comments and time. My thoughts at this point are to go up to 30mg celexa (was on 40) and stay there for 6 weeks or so and then try to taper from there. I’m unsure of what I should do with the wellbutrin. My original complaint to the dr was my celexa just wasn’t doing the job anymore. He thought wellbutrin was a good thing to try. And it did give me a lift immediately after starting it. On celexa I needed soooo much sleep. I needed 9 or 10 hours a day and often couldn’t get it. Every morning I would fight to wake up. I would set 2 alarms, 15 minutes apart and hit the snooze on both of them 3 times. It took me 30 to 60 minutes to wake up. The wellbutrin had me waking up on my own at 6:30 or 7:00 every morning. And had more energy and wanted to do more stuff during the day. I hate to give that up if I stop the wellbutrin.
I really don’t know what to do at this point. I want to get off the drugs. I have before. But my job is so stressful I need something to help with the seratonin levels. It just seems to be my body chemistry. If I need to stay on something to be able to work, I was thinking about a drug that helps with seratonin, norepinephrine and possibly dopamine. Could this be a good answer or am I dreaming?
August 29, 2012 at 8:03 am
It depends how long you have been taking Wellbutrin. In your earlier comment, you mentioned that you took Celexa and Wellbutrin for about two weeks before switching entirely to Wellbutrin. If you’ve been taking Wellbutrin for a short time, 4-6 weeks, you may be able to taper off of it quickly. It usually takes a month or two for the drug to begin to have lasting effects. If you have been taking Wellbutrin for more than two months, you should consider a slower tapering schedule. It’s important to only taper from one drug at a time. Since taking Wellbutrin alone is causing Celexa withdrawal for you, Wellbutrin should be the first drug that you taper off. You may have to deal with fatigue from Celexa for a while until you’re in a position to start tapering off of it. Once your dose of Celexa begins to diminish, you should start to feel more energy. Once you are off both, you can consider your best course, whether that is to try a different SSRI or use other methods to deal with stress.
Ironically, you may be able to follow your doctor’s schedule to taper off Wellbutrin if you’ve been on it for a short time. Doctors base their tapering schedule off of the short term studies that the companies conduct, which usually last 8-12 weeks. It’s the long term effects of the drugs that aren’t accounted for in these short studies.
As far as I know, the only drugs that affect all three neurotransmitters are illegal, like XTC or Cocaine, which probably aren’t good choices. Usually, doctors prescribe a cocktail of SSRI/neuroleptics to achieve that affect. You’ve experienced a bit of the polydrug spiral. I wouldn’t recommend going down that road again if you can help it.
August 29, 2012 at 12:14 pm
diz — It sounds to me like you are taking Wellbutrin to counter undesirable side effects from Celexa. Your current state does not represent who you are or your normal capabilities.
Those questions are too complicated to answer in a blog comment. I suggest you join http://survivingantidepressants.org and start an Intro topic with your questions.
(npath, I am not trolling for members, I have plenty, I just want to see people get off these drugs safely.)
August 29, 2012 at 7:02 pm
I don’t mind, Altostrata, My goal is to provide as much information as I can. My experience is limited to my own Paxil use and what I’ve read about these drugs and neurphysiology. My advice isn’t as complete as folks can get at a dedicated site.
September 2, 2012 at 1:08 am
Last few days have been so dreadful with the acuteness of the very first stage of withdrawal – am I back to square 1 again? I already learned that it could fluctuate widely but what’s currently happening makes an already very weak hope absolutely unachievable. The following’s just popped up in my mind:
I can’t walk, I can’t talk (let alone – work).
I can’t sleep, can only weep.
I can’t breathe – I can’t live.
Any sound drills my brain, any movement brings me pain.
I am so full of anger – I can even hit an angel.
Cold and hot, and cold again
Like I carry sun and rain.
Tired, tired all the time.
What a miserable rhyme…
September 2, 2012 at 9:06 am
I like your rhyme. When I was at the bottom, my brain felt as if it was fizzing like a soda, I couldn’t string sentences together, let alone make them rhyme. That was less than a year ago. It does get better, and faster than you’d think possible.
You’re not back to square one. Withdrawal is filled with setbacks. It goes forwards, backwards, sideways, but every time you pull yourself out of a setback, the road back is shorter than it was before, because you know the way that much better. Hang in there.
Try to explain how you feel to people in your life who care about you, they will support you. They may not understand completely. I tried to explain it to my friends and family, but they didn’t really get it. They knew I was suffering, though, and their support helped a lot.
You recognize that it’s cyclical, and that’s the best place to start. I know it doesn’t seem like it, that there’s no intuitive way to convince yourself, but the cycles will start to work in your favor. The good will start to outnumber the bad, and the bad will get milder as time goes on. I only recognized that pattern when it really started to get better. I think that’s part of the process of withdrawal. You only recognize progress after you’ve made it.
September 2, 2012 at 1:05 pm
That recovery comes in waves and windows is a very important realization, and something doctors are prone to misinterpret as “bipolar cycling.”
(When it comes to withdrawal syndrome, another thing they don’t know about is it often makes people hypersensitive to any neuroactive substances, even food, and they misinterpret that as well, throwing drugs at you that make you worse.)
There’s a discussion about the waves and windows pattern here http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/82-the-windows-and-waves-pattern-of-recovery/
I welcome your additions to it!
May 7, 2013 at 6:52 pm
Hey Altostrata,
I hope someone can answer this. I quit taking Effexor XR January 30, 2013. It is now May 7, 2013. Whenever I try to drink something like coffee or even have a sip of beer, I am EXTREMELY hypersensitive to them. A sip of coffee wires me and makes me very uncomfortable and a sip of beer makes me very drowsy and then anxious. I worry about this, also, because I fear that if I take any sort of medication, I may have to worry about getting screwy on it.
My question is this: Does this go away? Will my body ever come back or am I going to be hypersensitive always? Also, does anyone have a time window that they endured before it got better? I’m just worried I won’t get my life back. I used to love having coffee and enjoying a beer here and there with my friends.
Please advise,
Dominic
May 8, 2013 at 4:53 pm
I was the same way. While I was taking Paxil, I could drink like a fish. I had drastically suppressed reactions to caffeine, etc. when I got to a certain dose in my taper, though, I became a serious lightweight. I’m reaching a happy medium again, though.
It can take a while. Sensitivities come and go during withdrawal, but the overall progress should be back towards normal.
May 8, 2013 at 6:57 pm
Dominic, after withdrawal, many people become hypersensitive to drugs and even foods that act on the nervous system. Caffeine is one of those substances. This is an aspect of the autonomic nervous system being thrown out-of-balance by withdrawal. Listen to your body, cut back on anything that gives you a bad reaction. Over time, the hypersensitivity will lessen, but you’ll always have to listen to your body and don’t stress your nervous system if it sends up warning signals.
May 9, 2013 at 6:55 pm
npanth and Altostrata,
Thank-you so much for your encouragement. How long did it take you guys to get towards normal? I was taking Effexor for 5 years and I’m trying to figure out what to expect. I will definitely listen to my body, as I am sure it will tell me when I am ready. But, if you guys have a window that it took you, I would love to know. As you both know, doctors and psychiatrists know very little of the poison they prescribe. And, Altostrata… I follow so many of your posts and articles from a couple of sites. Thank-you so very much for all of your encouragement and expertise. It is so inspiring. Also, npanth… I see your name frequently on this page and your contributions have really helped me. Thank-you so very much.
Sincerely,
Dominic
May 10, 2013 at 1:22 pm
Thanks, Dominic. With a couple of false starts, including a bad reaction to Wellbutrin, it took me about 3 years to see significant improvement. But I must caution — even then my nervous system was vulnerable. Stress and a paradoxical reaction to a benzo set me back to square one, and then some. (Npanth, I think this thread might be exceeding WordPress’s abilities. It’s taking longer and longer to load.)
May 11, 2013 at 4:05 pm
I think you’re right about WordPress getting a bit stressed by this thread. I’ve tried a couple things in the admin page, but WordPress doesn’t provide many tools to manage the comment section.
May 10, 2013 at 6:54 am
Also, did anyone ever try re-instating the drug they were on and trying an appropriate taper to see if it mitigated the symptoms of hypersensitivity? I am considering this because I would really like to repair this issue.
Thanks,
Dominic
May 11, 2013 at 3:57 pm
Most of my symptoms dissipated within the first week when I reinstated. Since then, I’ve been slowly tapering, just 10% each 5-8 weeks. I’m going a little slower than I could, but I’m prioritizing quality of life over tapering right now. After the last year and a half, I figure I need a break.
The amount of time it takes to do a 10% taper seems overwhelming at first, it sure did to me. It’s not that bad, though. After going through the turmoil of a fast taper, having stability while tapering is very valuable to me.
I had hyper sensitivity for a long time when I was fast tapering. For a while, I couldn’t even watch tv. The shows made me depressed, and the commercials made me angry. The finest moment of triumph was when I realized that I had recovered enough to actually watch a horror movie. I went from not being able to watch David Attenborough to staying up late to watch the Fearnet channel.
I have mild withdrawal symptoms, but they don’t really interfere with my life like they did before. That’s another reason I’m going so slowly. I don’t want to jeopardize that stability, even in a small way.
May 11, 2013 at 6:40 pm
npanth,
I have been off of effexor xr since january 30th. Is it too late to try to re-instate and minimize the hypersensitivity?
Thank-you,
Dominic
Altostrata,
I understand. I will be very careful. I am figuring if I get back on effexor now and slow taper, I may be able to handle coffee again… I miss it VERY much. I also miss being able to handle tea…
ANYBODY… Is it too late for me to re-instate??
Take care,
Dominic
May 12, 2013 at 4:15 pm
It’s hard to say when it’s too late to reinstate. I’ve been trying to come up with some general ideas. It seems like the exception, rather than the common, rules, though.
There are two things that make it hard to say if reinstating is the right course. You don’t want to reinstate if you’re currently closer to recovery than the stabilization period after reinstatement. Since its extremely difficult to tell how long withdrawal symptoms last, you have to rely on your own sense of where you are in the process. Since withdrawal distorts our own sense of our well being, that is very hard to do. Quite a neat little catch-22.
The other thing that makes it hard to say if reinstating is the right thing to do is the variable way in which each person reacts to it. In the last few weeks, one user here tried to reinstate, but had to stop the attempt, even though it was on the same drug. Another person was able to get symptom relief within a couple days of reinstating. The only way to find out if you have developed a sensitivity to the drug since getting off is to reinstate and see. If you see symptom improvement within a couple days, it may still be some weeks, even a month or two, before you really feel stable again.
One thing that does seem to hold true is the idea that the longer you wait before reinstating, the longer it takes to get stable again. That’s not meant to pressure you, the difference is measured in months, not days. So, you have plenty of time to examine your symptoms and decide if reinstating is the right thing for you.
I’m sorry I can’t be more certain in my advice, I wish I could be.
May 18, 2013 at 8:48 am
npanth,
Thank-you SO MUCH for the advice… I will see if I can figure something out.
Take care,
Dominic
May 20, 2013 at 7:55 pm
No problem, glad to help. Withdrawal is a frustratingly personal journey. Sometimes, the best we can do is help out, even if the advice doesn’t exactly hit the mark 🙂
September 2, 2012 at 6:51 pm
Your comments make me cry, fill my heart with such a deep pity for all of us, admiration of your, guys, courage, thoughtfulness and compassion, infinite gratitude. Unfortunately, I am embarassed to admit, I have a desert around me. I’ve been afflicted with a chronic illness (of a kind of similar nature, in terms of obscurity, and not fitting in a recognizable category, though lately it is gaining legitimacy, ironically, I have more serious condition now to attend to on top of the old one) for a long time and an underlying cause of it was an unremitting stress provided by my family. As for friends, probably, I am not a lucky one to have very loyal people and I don’t judge them – a passage from an old song: when you are happy and successful, many people seek your friendship, when you are in trouble – they abandon you (sorry, transtating from russian). When I lived in Russia, it was common to share and exchange, you didn’t need a therapist for that, but here I’ve long learned not to impose my woes on anybody else (at least, not to take initiative) – it’s a kind of mauvais ton (unacceptable). At the same time I can’t pretend that I am doing well, as everybody is supposed to, just to be one of them.
Altostrata, your site definitely deserves many credits, it’s different from others: very well organized, with your guidance it gives a constructive view with so much useful info, instead of just presenting stories of moaning and groaning people (I am doing the same thing though) that can scare a hell out of us. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
You guys are heroes!
September 2, 2012 at 7:16 pm
Thank you, Jane, for those kind words.
September 3, 2012 at 9:37 am
I ran into the same thing. I tried to reach out to many of my friends, but found that there was a small core of friends who were willing to hear about serious problems over and over again. It bothered me a great deal at the time, but now I think that there is a limit to how much a casual friend can absorb. It makes other people frightened for themselves. They know that you’re not “contagious”, but it’s a reminder that their own mental state is more tenuous than they like to admit. The english version of your quote is “Success has many fathers, but trouble is an orphan.”
SSRI withdrawal is still essentially a solitary thing. I did find a couple friends who I could talk to occasionally, and that helped a great deal. I learned the most from online resources, but I needed those face to face interactions to gauge my progress. The diagnostic tools to describe SSRI withdrawal don’t exist, so doctors try to fit your symptoms into some other category, which leads to mistreatment. When I went to my doctor at the low point, he tried to convince me that I had an existing psychotic condition that was being treated by Paxil. His only solution was a new prescription. I have social anxiety, shyness. Having him tell me that I was psychotic was just so tone deaf that I didn’t trust anything he told me for a long time. I’m gaining more of a balance in my interactions with my doctor, but I think I will always apply more critical thinking to what he says from now on.
Thanks, glad to help where I can 🙂
September 3, 2012 at 7:04 pm
Any chance that you could do something in depth about “memory recall”? I saw one of your posts on PaxilProgress – it has helped me a great deal. Currently, I am going thru Valium withdrawal – to say that the Valium has impacted the flooding of memories or if the Paxil withdrawal after 12 usage did this – doesn’t really matter – it is the most painful experience – much trauma in my past.
I would be interested in your 2 cents – Valium withdrawal impacts short term memory – leading to what has been the most confusing time of my life- memory flooding and short term memory loss – interesting combination.
Do you have an coping tech. for memory flooding? Is it better to skip the memory or try to sort it out? After reading your post – I wonder how many of my memories are accurate.
September 4, 2012 at 11:24 am
Sure, I’ll put together something about memory and recall. The strategy that I used to deal with the obsessive flooding of memories was to try to understand the foundations of those memories. It’s not easy, because memories can come to the surface for many reasons. There’s a fine line between dwelling on memories and evaluating them. If some memories are too painful to examine, try to take your mind off them with other activities… easier said than done. There is a long time in withdrawal where memories come unbidden and kind of assail you. Examining them can increase stress and make recovery more difficult. In those cases, it’s better to put off the self examination for a while. It doesn’t seem like it when you’re living minute by minute, but those memories will be easier to deal with after you have had a chance to get past the worst parts of withdrawal. Waiting until you’re further into recovery can make examining those memories more productive, too. Withdrawal skews memories with other elements that don’t belong with the memory itself. It can be much better to wait until you are better able to separate out the intrusive and real memories.
I wrote a bit about separating withdrawal driven emotions from normal emotions here: https://npanth.wordpress.com/2012/08/02/separating-ssri-withdrawal-symptoms/
September 4, 2012 at 8:06 pm
I went through a period when I was reliving the most humiliating, painful, or frustrating episodes of my life. I couldn’t shut those thoughts off. Eventually they did go away.
The way I looked at it, the same process that was producing excess stress hormone, cortisol, was drawing out the deepest negative memories as well, like a magnet.
That was a difficult period. But I had learned to separate my withdrawal-induced “neuro-emotions” early, and that’s how I dealt with it — this, too shall pass, like all the other waves of weird symptoms.
September 3, 2012 at 8:07 pm
I am surprised that you’ve stayed with the same doctor. I’ve been skeptical of doctors for a long time due to my ongoing journey with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. I came here with a great hope and in awe of advanced and very potent, as it seemed to me back then, american medicine. Gradually, I was becoming more and more dissapointed and, finally, have reached an impression (and conviction) that the status of the medical care here is very poor, and if it’s developing the way it is now, the future is catastrophic. I’ve read hundreds of stories about this particular condition that eloquently repeat each other in 2 facts: first – none of them were warned or even hinted about possible consequences of discontinuation, second – nobody got help, even acknowledgement, when it happened (the same as you are describing). Here is just one of them:
“I been on SSRI’s and various psychiatric drugs for 17 years of my life. Mostly SSRI’s. I was pumped with drugs since age 17 (brainwashed by psychs). I found out about the fraud of psychiatry 17 years later. I was on 60mg’s paxil and 300mg’s effexor (COMBINED) as well as xanax. I wanted off these drugs because i developed serotonin syndrome. The criminal psychiatrist weaned me off these drugs ALL in 6 short weeks after 17 years of use. I developed the most INTENSE, EXCRUCIATING, head pains that most humans would commit suicide in an instant. I was screaming in PAIN!. I was staring at death in the face and was going to emergency rooms and doctors and they were all telling me it was all in my head that i was (nuts). NOBODY believed the severity of my pain and that i had pain. I was in this agony for 1 full year (i don’t know how i survived 1 year in such agonizing pain, it was the love for my family that kept me alive). After 1 year, i was given an Opiod called Hydromorphone which immediately calmed my pain and i could breathe again. I went on my knees and cried and thanked Lord Jesus. SSRI/SNRI withdrawal that has caused me intense head pains has now given me CHRONIC PERMANENT CENTRAL PAIN SYNDROME and i have to take OPIODS for the rest of my life because my CNS is damaged. Now in my closing argument i want to say that PSYCHIATRY and PSYCHIATRISTS are the most DANGEROUS, MOST BRUTAL subhumans one could ever encounter. Psychiatry destroyed my life, and the lives of MILLIONS. It is up to US to help stop this DANGEROUS PSEUDOSCIENCE CRIMINAL ORGANIZATION that masquarades as MEDICINE before they kill, cripple, and maim other innocent human beings. This is my story of SSRI/SNRI withdrawal. Now i have PERMANENT CENTRAL PAIN in my HEAD and have to be on OPIODS for the rest of my life thanks to criminal psychiatrists. Those who enjoy these drugs, love psychiatry, support psychiatry. Stay away from me, my family, and the innocents who don’t know what psychiatry and psychiatric drugs are. Those who fight to abolish psychiatry i applaud and support you. Those who give it power, i will do everything in my power with antipsychiatry groups and orgs to counterattack and have psychiatry totally eliminated in the next 50 years. The GOVERNMENT KNOWS PSYCHIATRY is the KILLING MACHINE of POPULATION CONTROL.”
May be the conclusion is extreme but I agree with it. If thoughtful doctors do exist, I’d call them mavericks, should be other way around.
Also, I wanted to ask people who are suffering so profoundly – how you go about your life. The condition is hardly endurable and it lingers for so long, devastating and incapacitating. There are commitments in life, housing chores, etc. Do you push yourself beyond tolerance level or just wait for “windows” to come? If you overcome yourself and do impossible for a “normal” person things, how it affects you later? How do you decide whether to go for something despite a brutal impediment when the ability of making rational decisions itself is substantially impaired?
September 4, 2012 at 12:03 pm
I recognize the sentiment. When I was feeling the worst withdrawal symptoms, I felt very angry at a lot of people. I focused that anger on the pharmaceutical companies and my doctor. If I had written about it at the time, my post would have looked very much like the one you copied here. I decided to put all those feelings on hold because I knew that they were changing the way I thought. Acting out on those feelings would have been counterproductive to my recovery. I didn’t want to do anything that I would regret later, either. I’ve decided that the best way to channel my frustration is to try to help others rather than attack the companies or doctors. Letting go of anger in withdrawal is not an easy thing, not at all. It’s chemically driven, and doesn’t respond to the normal mental checks and balances.
I still see the same doctor because he’s all too typical of the doctors that are available to me. Too many patients, too little time, not enough care. He’s considered to be a good doctor with high ratings and reviews. I don’t think that the standard medical world is equipped to deal with problems like SSRI withdrawal. They probably don’t see many patients that want to stop taking psychotropic drugs. My doctor was genuinely surprised when I told him I wanted to stop. I’ve seen a couple other doctors, but they all approach the problem in the same way. The only treatment option available to them are the very drugs that have caused me so many problems. If I tried to escalate the issue, the referral could have led to an involuntary prescription to SSRI. They only treat the symptoms in front of them. They don’t have time or resources to investigate the causes of withdrawal. The kind of episodic, temporary, problem that SSRI withdrawal presents isn’t something they can really handle.
September 5, 2012 at 5:04 pm
I wanted to drop an ‘update’ on my withdrawal for anyone who wants to know that it can be done. I’m fully withdrawn after about a month and a half. I withdrew by taking half a dose of my 10mg lexapro every other day, then quitting completely after 6 days. My dizziness lasted for about a month, but eating salty foods, eating frequently, and resting during bad periods got me thru the dizziness. I got ‘cortisol surges’ in the morning, but that disappeared after about 2 weeks. The main thing is finding non-SSRI treatments for low serotonin.
My natural replacement was daily sun, daily exercise for at least 30 minutes, and supplementing with tryptophan and a light snack. I found that I could make the serotonin easily. For instance, I’d be a little down, but after an exercise session or soaking up a few sun rays, I’d be fine again. My problem was that my good feeling would disappear within the next 1.5-2 days if I didn’t do anything for it. Therefore, I hypothesized that I had a lot of the MAO-A enzyme that broke serotonin down. A good natural MAO inhibitor is ginkgo, so I started taking that. Another natural MAO inhibtor is resveratrol, found in berries, grapes, and chocolate. I also found that the cheap tryptophan didn’t work as well as a good quality tryptophan.
Finally, 5-HTP has been said to be ‘dangerous’ because it creates serotonin in the body as well as the brain. The theory goes that the blood brain barrier creates a wall between the gut, where 95% of serotonin is created, and the brain, where only about 5% of serotonin’s created. The reasoning is that you can have too much gut serotonin, (serotonin syndrome) and still be depressed with low serotonin levels in the brain. LOL I honestly don’t believe the wall’s this thick. This is why: when I’m depressed, I also get cold, a tad constipated, and light-headed (i.e., my blood pressure goes down). These are all bodily symptoms of low serotonin. Perhaps there’s a gut-brain connection as observed with autism. The vagus nerve connects the gut to the brain. Obviously, the scientists don’t know what’s going on completely yet. I’m not going to wait for scientists to figure it out and will instead rely on my own reasoning. When I’m super-low, (like on a dreary day where I’ve drank a bunch of drinks the night before) AND when I also feel the bodily effects of low serotonin, I pop an 5 HTP. 5 HTP really works better than tryptophan. But I’m careful with the 5 HTP because I don’t want to get liver tumors or cardiac fibrosis from too much bodily serotonin.
September 5, 2012 at 6:44 pm
I’m glad that your plan is working for you. I’ve stayed away from supplements for the most part during my taper. I tried fish oil for a while, but didn’t notice a big difference. I’m hesitant to add another compound to the mix right now. Supplements can be very helpful to a lot of people, so I don’t try to dissuade people from using them too strongly. Staying away from supplements is just my personal strategy. I try to eat right and take care of myself. I agree that taking care of the basics creates a good foundation for recovery.
September 5, 2012 at 8:25 pm
A lot of people suffering from withdrawal syndrome report problems with those supplements — they make withdrawal symptoms worse — so unfortunately there’s no simple way to ease symptoms.
CD, I’m glad you’ve recovered from a month and a half of withdrawal symptoms. The way you tapered — alternating dosages, then quitting after a week — would cause a lot of people to have horrible withdrawal symptoms. Alternating dosages, like cold turkey, is a roll of the dice, and if the result is bad, it can be very bad.
You are lucky to have a very resilient nervous system. It’s likely that’s what got you through, rather than the supplements.
Anyway, good to hear you’re fine now.
September 5, 2012 at 8:49 pm
I didn’t get an answer to the last part of my posting and I’d really like to. You might’ve skipped it intentionally, then just disregard it. I’ll repeat the question:
Also, I wanted to ask people who are suffering so profoundly – how you go about your life. The condition is hardly endurable and it lingers for so long, devastating and incapacitating. There are commitments in life, house chores, etc. Do you push yourself beyond tolerance level or put it off and wait for “windows” to come? If you overcome your incapacity, forcing yourself to do impossible, how it affects you later? How do you decide whether to go for something despite a brutal impediment, when the ability of making rational decisions itself is substantially impaired?
September 5, 2012 at 9:28 pm
I did sidestep that issue a bit. I started weaning after I was laid off, so I didn’t have work commitments at first. That’s a good thing, in a way. I couldn’t go out of the house very much at first. It wasn’t until I realized that I was tapering too quickly and slowed down my schedule that I became able to do things again. Now that I’m on a slow schedule, I’m able to handle problems and events better. Slow tapering really does make a difference in the severity of symptoms. Instead of being overwhelming, they are much milder. I still get the same symptoms, but they are pale shadows of what they were before. When I was tapering 20% each month, the symptoms were really debilitating. I don’t think I would have been capable of working effectively during that time. I’m not sure what people who decide to taper in the middle of their lives do.
September 6, 2012 at 5:06 pm
It’s been 9 months of hell for me and counting. Making it thru daily executive life is truelly miserable and unbearable at times. The thought of failing this early in my life (i just turned 45 in August) is almost as unbearable as the withdrawl symptoms. Failing in front of my wife of twenty years and 2 awesome kids and piers is not an option. I have struggled to live the American dream way to damn hard to give it up.
Possitive thoughts about life and making it to lunch time do I can take a 10 min nap have helped me so far. I’m by no means at a point to say I have even made it past this stuff. Hope I don’t sound portentous or pompous because I’m not I’m a small town farm boy that has lived humble and now am being humbled to the max and then some. And yes I have cried more in the last 9 months than I have in my entire life.
September 6, 2012 at 4:47 pm
I have been on some type of ssri since 1993. Yep almost 20 yrs. The longest of the meds being Effexor for 14 yrs. I decided to taper off of this evil medicine to stop a life time of eyeore like living. Yes Disneys eyeore. Slow and unemotional. I realize now I did many things wrong during this process. I started the two week taper on my doctors direction on December 20th 2011. Way to fast. I could barely function. Zaps, dizzy, nausea on and on. I truely thought I was dying from some horrible brain disorder. Several trips to ER cat scans blood work, heart eco, stress tests. U name it I was tested for it. After 4 months of agony to say it lightly phys doc decided to put me on lexxapro. You already know before I say it that it didn’t go well. I actually tapered off of it over a 5wk period. The doctors recommendation was to increase my dosage. Wrong answer. I have now been off of all meds since the end of July.
I am still in major major withdrawl. I am a vice president of a small company with 90 employees. I must be Hercules to endure this living hell. I have to stay positive about the positive outcome that might come. I have symptoms from the second I wake up until I go to bed. My family and lifestyle is in serious jeopardy if this doesn’t go away or at least decrease slightly. The only thing that helps my head is a steady steam of asperine. I realize aspirin is not good long term either.
It is almost impossible to write down or even explain symptoms like my head is so fuzzy I can’t see straight. The medical community, naturopathic, main stream no one has a clue about ssri discontinuation syndrome. It is very disheartening to say the least. I’m not sure what I am asking for because there really seems to be no answers to when this will go away or subside if ever.
September 6, 2012 at 10:23 pm
I’m trying to imagine working in an executive position back in the bad days. It’s hard for me to really wrap my head around it. I’m not trying to make a pun. The dissociation, anger, electric brain, it would have been too much for me. I know what you mean, wake up to the panic alarm clock and crawl through the day.
A two week taper after 20 years, it’s hard to imagine. That schedule is really a cold turkey stop. It makes me angry that doctors persist in those precipitous tapering schedules even when it’s obvious that it hurts their patients. It’s been some time since you stopped, so I’m not sure how to advise you about whether to reinstate Effexor or continue. You could consider reinstating at a lower dose, and slowing your taper from there. Changing SSRI to alleviate withdrawal symptoms doesn’t do much, as you know. SSRI seem to have a “Garden of Eden” effect, where you don’t get the same effect when you try to reinstate or switch. It might blunt the symptoms and allow you to do a slower taper.
I know where you’re at, it’s not something that you can really explain to someone who hasn’t experienced it. How can you describe the way it dissolves your personality, fills you with dread, fear, anger? It can be really hard on families and friends because they can’t really understand what you’re going through. Try to explain it to them as best you can. Emphasize that it is a temporary thing, because it is.
It’s hard to say how long withdrawal will last, each person seems to have a different reaction. The one thing that’s certain is that you can recover. It’s very hard to recognize that you’re making progress until you’ve made some. It’s one of the ironies of withdrawal, I think. Until you get past a phase, you don’t think it will ever end.
Check out http://www.paxilprogress.org/ and http://survivingantidepressants.org/ There are many people there who started their withdrawal the same way you did. I started my withdrawal the same way you did. I think most people start by tapering too quickly. They have good advice and support on those sites, many withdrawal veterans.
One of the hardest things for me to understand about withdrawal was that it does pass. It’s hard to believe when you’re living life minute by minute, but it does get better and easier to manage. I hope it turns around for you soon.
October 4, 2012 at 6:34 pm
Well it’s been just over a month from my last post. I have gone threw a wave and a small window of what i call clarity in each of the last four weeks. My symptoms are still there but they are slightly decreased in intensity. I have actually slept well for the last five days. Waking up without that overwhelming dread feeling has been very nice. Don’t get me wrong it is still their just not as intense. I continue to have headaches but they are manageable with just a couple aspirin not 8 or 10. Depersonalization is probably my number one concern. I think it is easy for my mind to fall into depersonalization and I catch myself saying ” wtf her I am again lets change something”. It’s not easy for me to come out of this mode. If I change my location or do a different task that helps. Keeping busy is the key for me. The problem is I feel totally exhausted after a day of work so it’s not easy to find a task other than laying on the couch. Basically keeping my mind occupied with thoughts other than Im dying or going crazy helps a lot. Bad or drug induced mental habits are very hard to change. These thoughts actually proliferate into physical pain for me but I am slowly understanding that the pain or thoughts are suto self inflicted. I will get better damn it!!!
October 4, 2012 at 9:39 pm
I am, to the contrary, deteriorating to the extent that suicidal thoughts are haunting me more an more frequently. I’ve totally lost sleep, even sleeping pills sometimes can’t overwhelm severe insomnia. Even when I get some sleep with the pills, next day depression strikes more intensely and I have this dread feeling constantly. Really tough dilemma – to lie down through the whole night with eyes open and horrible thoughts visiting non-stop or to get some artificial sleep and face a next day to bring me the same distress. Also, when I navigate the relevant sites and read the people stories or, for example, Dr. Shipko, observations (just those notes alone could make you absolutely hopeless), it adds an agravation even more. Again, whether to stay away from reading that data at all, or continue to search and search trying to find something helpful – that’s the question.
October 4, 2012 at 9:49 pm
Dano, I’m glad you’re not waking up to the Paxil alarm clock. I know you were on a couple different SSRI, I just call it the Paxil alarm clock. That morning zinger was a terrible way to start the day. Getting a good night’s sleep helps a lot, too. I think some of my problems were caused simply because I couldn’t get more than 3-4 hours a night.
You’re recognizing waves and windows, that’s a big step. One of the big corners that people turn in recovery is recognizing when they’re getting better. It’s easier to see when you’re feeling bad, it’s kind of overwhelming. Somehow, feeling bad becomes… comfortable? familiar? It took me a long time to actually admit that I was feeling better, and longer to recognize the pattern between waves and windows. Somehow, knowing that I was feeling better felt like an admission of failure. It sounds weird and irrational, but that’s what withdrawal brings out in people. gauging the intensity of your symptoms also helps a lot. In the beginning, there doesn’t seem to be any movement at all. Once you know that your symptoms are getting milder, it’s progress.
You’re using mindfulness to work through withdrawal. That’s great. I have to say, you’re almost a year ahead of me. It took me a very long time to even understand the rules, let alone have any control over withdrawal. I can relate to that deep set feeling of determination to overcome it, too. It didn’t feel like it for a long time, but I know this experience is making me stronger and more compassionate than I was before. Great to hear how you’re doing.
October 4, 2012 at 10:10 pm
Jane, it sounds like you’re in the hardest part of withdrawal, stuck between sleep and waking. You mentioned in an earlier post that you were taking an opiod to treat your symptoms. Has that helped at all?
I had to take a couple breaks from researching withdrawal. Sometimes, it gets to be too much. At different points, I had to stop watching TV and browsing the web, it was too much stimulation. Eventually, I was able to start engaging again.
If you feel that your well being is in danger, please reach out to someone. You said that your family was very supportive. It may take some time, but you will eventually start to see improvement. I don’t think that the effects of SSRI are permanent, but they do improve slowly, sometimes. It’s very hard to persevere, but it’s worth it. I hope you feel better, soon. I’ll be thinking about you.
October 4, 2012 at 11:14 pm
Thank you for your support, but seems like you are mistaking me for someone else. I haven’t taken any opioids. I mentioned Stablon (SSRE drug manufactured by the French co.). I started myself on it a couple of ms ago, took it for 5 days only, then dropped it for b/c: first, I felt worse on the 5-th day (now it’s clear to me that it was a usual dip given the nature of this condition, changeable from bad to very bad to dreadful ever), secondly, reading advices, particularly – yours, not to mess up with other drugs. As for supportive family, it’s quite the opposite. I actually explained that I got into this situation due to an unrelenting stress produced by the family. The hideous effect of withdrawal for me goes farther that the typical symptoms. I also have thyroid disease, asthma and allergic rhinitis that are not only exacerbated with unvailing of w/d but don’t get alleviated by the drugs and an inhaler – so, looks like the body got destructed so profoundly that all it’s reactions’ve turned unside down. My allergist was shocked after checking the lung fuction (it got significantly worse compare to previous), but I’ve failed to explain to him what an underlying culprit of it is. Everything that worked in the past just becomes absolutely irrelevant
October 5, 2012 at 9:35 am
I’m sorry, Jane. Another Jane posted here about a month ago with similar symptoms and I thought it was her returning. I agree that other drugs tend to complicate withdrawal more than help. Your post had an immediacy that concerned me. Withdrawal can lead to very dire thoughts. The previous post mentioned that she had found some relief from an opioid, which is why I mentioned it. I’m sorry for the confusion. Your situation is complicated by other illnesses, you might be able to get some coping advice from the support websites listed at the top of this thread. There are people there who have more experience with symptoms caused by drug and condition interactions.
November 10, 2012 at 9:56 pm
It’s been a little over a month since my last post. I have read and totally related to many of your posts over the last several weeks. I have had to stop my intense research mode every night to find answers about what has happened over the last 11 plus months. Doing this can cause as many bad results as good. This site by far has been very helpfull to me. The reality of feelings and emotions that I was void of for two decades is interesting (to say the least ). Real anxiety is still scary but when I realize I just have to deal with it void of medicine is a small relief. I have only had the wake and instant total dread feeling a couple days this month. I have been sleeping pretty good as well. GI issues have decreased as well.
I had a MRI of my brain two weeks ago. They told me my sinuses are completely plugged in multiple places. The good news is I don’t have any major brain issues or tumors. I was convinced for a long time I had a major brain disease or something. I have now had 5 sinus infections in the last 7 months. I have never had one in my life before this year. So I’m going thru withdrawl sindrome with massive sinus infections. The steroid to reduce swelling and antibiotics to beet the infection are giving me lots of brain fog.
I actually hooked my boat up tonight and have decided to go steelhead trout fishing in the am. This is a big deal to me because I used to do this on a weekly basis and haven’t done it for many many months.
Don’t get me wrong I still have symptoms every day but they are manageable most of the time. So yes it does get better but it has taken a really long time.
November 11, 2012 at 12:14 am
It’s hard not to dwell on withdrawal research at first. I think it’s very common to spend a little too much time trying to explain what’s happening. The lack of official information leaves patients with little choice but to scour the web for answers. For most people, it fades away over time in a natural way. It may not be directly symptom related, but it’s a common response to withdrawal.
I’m glad the MRI came back negative. I had the same problem. There were times when I was convinced that I had a permanent neurological problem. The symptoms just didn’t seem like they could be a temporary problem. How can something that severe ever go away? Despite my worst fears, the symptoms have faded over time. Thank goodness.
When I started tapering, I realized how many of the things I used to love had just quietly slipped away. Fishing, photography, writing, reading, music. Somewhere along the line, I just stopped caring about them one by one. Eventually, I guess I didn’t care about anything. I didn’t realize it until I started tapering, though. Have fun fishing, I hope you catch a couple steelies… even one of those wily browns 🙂 I used to drift egg sacs for browns in a river near where I live. Those tricky little fish would actually steal the eggs right out of the sack, leaving me with nothing but a bit of plastic on the hook when I reeled it in. Amazing.
September 11, 2012 at 10:04 pm
I am trying to wean myself off Lexapro and am having a very hard time. My question is this. How do you know if these are withdrawal symptoms or this is just how you are without the meds?? We all started taking these meds for a reason, I assume, so how do we know we can even function properly without them? I am so concerned about this because I REALLY want to be able to live a “normal” life that does not include taking anti-dep every day. What if I get through the withdrawal time period and realize I just have to be on medication to function normally. What if I am just stuck with this chemistry that isn’t “right”?
I applaud all of you and the hard work you are doing to get off these meds. It is not easy.
September 12, 2012 at 10:18 am
That is one of the hardest parts of withdrawal and using an SSRI. It’s very hard to separate the baseline anxiety and depression from those caused by the drug. You can’t really rely on your memories of how you were before you started taking the drug, Those memories are colored by your experiences since. The best way to recognize the difference between withdrawal and a baseline anxiety is to recognize the things in your life that trigger your anxiety/depression. Triggers can be almost anything. Usually, they are stressful encounters that trigger immediate anxiety. There can also be things in your life that trigger stressful memories. Becoming aware of environmental triggers helps you in two ways. It allows you to tell the difference between symptoms caused by the drug, and those caused by the underlying condition. It also allows you to start working on your reactions to those triggers. It’s not easy to do. It takes a long time to sort out the emotions and your reactions to them. I wrote a post about this topic, trying to parse out the different techniques to separate withdrawal from baseline symptoms. https://npanth.wordpress.com/2012/08/02/separating-ssri-withdrawal-symptoms/
Withdrawal amplifies emotions, too. Where you might normally react with mild anxiety to driving on a busy road, in withdrawal, the reaction is much stronger. So, as well as identifying which emotions are caused by triggers and which are caused by withdrawal, you also have to gauge the strength of that reaction. It’s complicated, but it does get easier as time goes on. Tapering off of Paxil has been a blessing of sorts for me. While taking the drug, I still experienced the same emotions, but they were numbed. The drug also numbed the cognitive processes that I would normally use to deal with those emotions. So, I was stuck with the consequences of emotional triggers, but had no tools to deal with them.
The chemical imbalance theory has been under criticism in the past few years. It was originally developed to explain why patients taking antihistamines showed improved mood. There isn’t a biological test to confirm or deny the theory that patients who are experiencing anxiety or depression have a chemical imbalance. Researchers are using it to explain an anecdotal observation made in the 1950’s. It has gained widespread acceptance based more on advertising campaigns rather than scientific observation. If you listen to the commercials carefully, you’ll notice that they carefully avoid tying depression to any imbalance. They use phrases like “it is thought that depression may be related to an imbalance.”
September 12, 2012 at 12:48 pm
If you have any of the physical symptoms of withdrawal, such as brain zaps, sleeplessness, palpitations, loose stools, temperature dysregulation, etc., your emotional symptoms are also withdrawal symptoms. They don’t exist independently of whatever else is happening in your body.
Typically, in withdrawal, those emotional symptoms come in surges of anxiety, morbid thoughts, or fear out of the blue, interspersed with periods where you wonder “what the heck was that?” — unlike “normal” emotions.
September 16, 2012 at 9:11 am
Hi all
Im 26 years old man, I started taking citalopram May the 3rd till the 6th of june 2012. That would be 5 weeks on the drug.
I started taking citalopram cause I was having a lot of anxiety, and my mother kind of pushed me to start on ssri cause she knew a lot of people that benefited from it. I really didn’t want to take it, since I knew about the sexual side effects it could cause (but only on the drug not after stopping).
But the doctor made sure they would disappear again when I went off the ssri
again. She actually said my dose was so small I could stop from day to day. I was having a lot of side effects while on the drug and my libido got a lot worse. So I searched on the sexual side effects on the drug on google, and ended up reading about pssd and became scared as hell.
I then took half a dose the next day I was on 20mg the entire time and went down to 10mg and then stopped taking it, so almost a cold turkey. And right now im still having libido side effect and my erection is not as hard as it used to be. I improved some from not being on the drug, and its been on and off ever since. I still not feel like the old me, even though some improvement has been made.
Right now im worried cause I felt I caused this by going cold turkey, can this be reversed by the same drug and how should I do it ?
Or do you think I should just stay away from all ssri and hope the body can take care of it by itself ? And only being on the drug for 5 weeks is it really that bad to could turkey on a relatively small dose ? I read that you can stop from day to day up to 4 weeks on the medication.
I have to mention I did not have any other notable side effects from withdrawal from the medication at all. Its only the libido and the decreased erection strength but thats a huge problem too.
Thanks
September 16, 2012 at 3:54 pm
Erectile dysfunction is one of the most common side effects of using an SSRI. There aren’t many concrete numbers on how many patients experience it, the number is anywhere between 3% and 60%. Since you were on the drug for a short time, you should be able to wait it out. It can sometimes take a while for the symptoms to resolve themselves. It’s not the method that you used to stop taking the drug that caused your problem, but the drug itself, so going back on the drug would probably prolong your ED rather than help it. It’s been about 3 months since you stopped. See if waiting another month makes a difference. Some people have extended symptoms, but most people recover in time. It could have a little bit of a psychological aspect to it, too. You expect to have problems because of your experience and it becomes a self fulfilling thing. It’s natural for concern to impact sexual performance. 20MG is a normal dose, so it may take a little while for your body to adjust. I hope it works itself out. I had the same problem while I was taking Paxil. It largely went away when I got down to 0mg/day, then started up again when I had to reinstate. I’m now in this weird place where I have desire but not function. It’s really frustrating. It’s coming back little by little as I taper, so I’m confident that it will work itself out.
I disagree with your doctor about being able to go on and off a 20MG dose. I’m not a doctor, so my disagreement is anecdotal. What I’ve noticed is that starting and stopping an SSRI puts the body into and out of withdrawal, which usually makes the symptoms worse.
September 17, 2012 at 1:20 pm
Thanks for the great reply 🙂 The thing is, that I have never heard of anyone that had cold turkey antidepressant medication and everything returned 100% back to normal before they went on ssri. So that causes some worries, I try not to worry too much though. Maybe its me that spend too much time on websites such as paxilprogress and yahoo pssd group.
I will definitely wait a month and hope for improvements as you suggested. Another thing other than my decreased libido and erection strength, is that I noticed that my body hair has thinned and even fallen out different places on my body. I highly suspect the ssri medication caused this too, since I have never had this problem before.
September 17, 2012 at 6:20 pm
Cold turkey is definitely the hardest way to stop taking an SSRI, but most people do recover in the end. There are some people who have continuing problems, but they are in the minority. Sometimes, they have other reasons for problems, other drugs they’re using, existing problems, etc. I’ve worried about long term problems, but most of those have been unfounded as I continue to improve. I’ve known people who have had terribly hard withdrawal, but came out the other end, hopefully, it’s the same for you.
Some of my hair has turned white during withdrawal, but I think that might be stress related. I’ve heard that some people have had thinning hair during withdrawal. I’m not sure if it’s due to the drug and withdrawal or stress during withdrawal. I think it could be either.
September 18, 2012 at 12:12 pm
In the beginning, the new generation antidepressants were thought to have no withdrawal problems. Everyone went cold turkey. It became obvious in the mid ’90s that this was causing injuries, and the warnings about cold turkey — which are unanimous throughout the medical literature — were published.
Experiments in cold turkey are considered unethical because cold turkey is so thoroughly regarded as harmful. Therefore, observations need to be based on accidental cold turkey, such as in this study:
In the study, out of 34 women who quit abruptly
• 26 (70%) reported physical and psychological adverse effects
• 11 (30%) reported suicidal ideation “because of ‘unbearable’ symptoms,” and 4 were hospitalized
An additional 3 women “used some form of tapering off. This tapering was unsatisfactory, however, because even these patient suffered from adverse effects.”
“One woman had a therapeutic abortion because she did not feel she could go through the pregnancy feeling so awful….,” another considered it.
Paroxetine again was associated with more severe side effects; 6 of the 11 reporting suicidal ideation were taking paroxetine.
(Note that the events occurred in 1996-97, when the adverse effects of medication on the fetus were still being denied.)
Including the 3 women who tapered for a total of 37 followed, at best 8 women of 37 , or 21% reported no appreciable symptoms. 11 of 37 (29%) were on the other extreme, with “unbearable” symptoms. The others were in the middle.
This fits a normal curve, with a small number of people at either end and the majority in the middle.
A normal curve explains the range of withdrawal reactions in quitting psychiatric medications. The percentages should not be taken seriously as odds because the number of subjects was so small. However, this small study indicates a metaphor of Russian roulette for cold turkey is not far off: one chamber is empty, 4 are loaded with rubber bullets (which can hurt pretty bad), and the last contains a real bullet.
[b]J Psychiatry Neurosci 2001;26(1):44–8.[/b]
Abrupt discontinuation of psychotropic drugs during pregnancy: fear of teratogenic risk and impact of counseling.
Einarson A, Selby P, Koren G.
Abstract at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11212593 with free full text.
September 18, 2012 at 9:22 pm
Thanks for the link. It is a small study, but it’s one of the few I’ve seen that looks at withdrawal and the consequences that people suffer when they quit. I wish there more studies on withdrawal, but I can see why companies are hesitant to do them. I’ve suspected that the percentages of patients who have serious problems is a lot higher than reported. I try to err on the low side when I quote percentages because I don’t want to be seen as exaggerating the problem. It’s bad enough as it is. If only 3% (company sponsored studies) of patients experience withdrawal, that would still represent hundreds of thousands of people having problems. I suspect the number is much higher, more like the numbers that you quote. I think most people get diagnosed with new illnesses, and get new prescriptions, so they are not officially counted as having withdrawal.
September 19, 2012 at 12:36 pm
I agree. Oft-cited studies estimate incidence of withdrawal syndrome at 20%-80%.
I estimate the incidence of prolonged withdrawal lasting more than 6 months as 1 in 10.
The FDA considers an adverse effect “common” if it occurs more than 1 in 100 times.
September 22, 2012 at 2:51 am
I definitely think citalopram messed up something with either my testerone level, thyroid gland or both. Since losing body hair and lowered libido seeems very likely cause of this. I will try get to a doctor and get it checked out. The thing that worries me, is that I been off the drug longer than I been on it and still dealing with these issues.
September 22, 2012 at 9:35 am
Rxisk.org, established by David Healy, is collecting reports of long-term adverse effects from drugs.
September 22, 2012 at 7:31 pm
Yeah, I think the amount of time you’ve been off the drug should be enough to cover most of the withdrawal symptoms, since you were only on Citalopram for 5 weeks, 3 months ago. Everyone has a unique experience when they try to stop taking an SSRI. Some can just start or stop taking them at will, others have longer term problems. The one thing that the vast majority of people share with their withdrawal experience is that they get through it. Good Luck, I hope it works itself out.
September 23, 2012 at 1:30 pm
Unfortunately, while it seems length of time (meaning years) on the drug is a risk factor for prolonged withdrawal syndrome, this isn’t always true. It seems there are people who are vulnerable to severe and prolonged withdrawal effects even if they’ve been on the drug a matter of weeks.
The good news is, withdrawal syndrome does seem to fade eventually, although it can take a very long time.
November 26, 2019 at 9:42 pm
Hi . I have had a treatment resistant depression for three years . Have taken 17 different meds that have not helped . I have been on and off medications for 28 years . My third depression started three years ago . I have been on SSRI’s, antipsychotics, mood stabilizers and benzos . I am done . I am tapering and want off of the three I am presently on . Paxil, lamictal and Ativan . I know ativan is really bad and I have been on it everyday for three years but it is the only one that has slightly helped . Where am I going with all of this ? I guess my question is , since my depression never went away , will it only get much worse when i taper off ? I just know that in three years nothing has worked so I figure , why am I still taking them ? Started taper of Paxil first five days ago . Went from 20 to 10 and already having suicidal thoughts , uncontrollable crying , shivering and can’t get out of bed . Also worth mentioning that anxiety is a hugh component of my depression . Also diagnosed with ocd ….. ugh . Am I making a wise decision to go off these meds ?
November 27, 2019 at 3:42 pm
Randa,
I haven’t been at this site in a while, but I got your post and wanted you to know people are here to help you. There is another site called (I think) https://www.negative ordeal.org/ which many people find helpful.
But let me say this ……..
Being on antidepressants long term can, for some people, be a truly negative and damaging experience, and getting off these meds, while the preferable way to go, is a long and difficult process. It can and does need to healing, but it can take years and is best done under the care of an enlightened and knowledgeable professional, one who sees these drugs as the problem, not the solution.
So, check out the site I mentioned above, get a support network in place (family and friends), find a qualified professional, and take a deep breath. You will need to be strong and patient, and give both your brain and mind time to heal.
Just always remember, you are not alone.
Namaste
November 27, 2019 at 3:45 pm
The site is “surviving antidepressants.com”, not “negative.com”.
Not sure what happened with that.
October 1, 2012 at 10:03 am
Amazing how quickly the drug becomes the problem for so many people. I consider SSRIs to be the most damaging poison that has ever passed my lips. Three and a half years off and I am ruined by them still. The damage is permanent.
October 1, 2012 at 9:34 pm
I don’t think that withdrawal problems are permanent. There are some people who are particularly sensitive to SSRI who have prolonged symptoms. I know a couple people who quit off very high doses of SSRI and experienced years of severe symptoms, but they recovered in the end. I agree that withdrawal can be very debilitating. I’ve often wished I could have that decade back, never have taken Paxil in the first place. I know I’ll get back to my old self, though. I hope it’s the same for you.
I’ve written about the neurological changes that SSRI make in another post. The drug does cause the brain to make structural changes in response to what it does, but the brain has a remarkable ability to change back once the drug is removed. Hang in there, it will get better.
October 1, 2012 at 12:15 pm
i had nexito 5mg for 4 days.when u came to know that i was misdigonalysed..(i was given nexito for migraine eventhough it is a ssri..).
i stop it al of a sudden..and from last 22 days m facing this mood swing problem.which is severe at morning and disappear by night.can any 1 help me out ..how long its gona take 4 me to be normal again.
October 1, 2012 at 9:27 pm
Problems with SSRI are usually harder in the morning and get better as the day goes by, as you describe. You should be ok since you only took the drug for a few days. Some people have problems for longer periods, but usually get better in time. I would see how you feel in a week or two and decide from there. If you still have problems then, see a doctor for some tests to see if you have any other problems that are causing your symptoms. I hope you start to feel better soon.
October 1, 2012 at 10:11 pm
thnks a lot for ur advice..2 days back i wasnt able adjust with the mood swing(which is my biggest.concern)..my mom whose a nurse gave me 1 dexa tablet..she said u ll be ok having it..so my question is will this tablet interfere with my recovery ..as i only read ur post yestetday (which i feel is excellent).i am not at all going to take any medications for this purpose..can u just aswere my simple question which i mentioned here about dexa( glucocorticoid)…hop u reply soon
October 1, 2012 at 10:52 pm
I think she gave you the Glucocorticoid to help control Cortisol. High levels of Cortisol can cause morning anxiety and increased anxiety. Cortisol levels start high in the morning, then diminish over the course of the day, just like your symptoms.
I’ve tried to not take any other drugs while tapering off Paxil (another SSRI, in the same class as Nexito) I don’t want to introduce any new drug effects while I’m tapering off the original drug. Since Dexa is a steroid that affects the adrenal gland, it can cause dependence and withdrawal symptoms if used for more than a week. Long term use may cause more problems than it solves. Taking one tablet shouldn’t have a large impact, though. Your mom would know more about the effects and possible problems from taking it, though. I’m not a doctor, so I don’t know all the effects of the drug.
October 1, 2012 at 11:24 pm
dude u r jst amazing…evn the doctors out here stopd belvng me..nd thy said i probably go to a psychiatrist ..but ur post helped me out..i feel m recovery..but the ibido level has gone down…i ll defntly wait for a month and also update you with my weekly progress…once again thnk u
October 2, 2012 at 8:51 am
jst of curiosity i am asking a question…wil i b able to recover completly or is there any effect that is gonna b in my body for ever…it also includes the reduced ebido level..
October 2, 2012 at 1:11 pm
My doctor didn’t believe me when I went to him with Paxil withdrawal symptoms, either. According to the manufacturers, SSRI don’t cause withdrawal, so doctors try to diagnose the symptoms they see as something else. Doctors often prescribe new drugs to treat withdrawal, which can introduce new drug effects, and don’t always treat withdrawal. I’ve met some people who are taking a half dozen drugs, each prescribed to treat the side effects or withdrawal symptoms from the previous drug/s.
I don’t blame the doctors, not entirely. They could apply more critical thinking to the information that they’re given, but in the end, they have to trust the information the drug companies give them. More information is coming out that drug companies have manipulated study results so that side effects and withdrawal are minimized. It’s no wonder that doctors misdiagnose withdrawal as other illnesses.
Decreased libido is a classic symptom of SSRI. It should slowly return to normal in time. It seems like you are very sensitive to the drug, so it may take a little longer than most people. Patience is the hardest part of stopping an SSRI. It always seems like it will take way too long to get back to normal. I had the same problem while I was taking Paxil. It didn’t start to improve until recently. You shouldn’t have to wait that long.
Thanks for the compliment. I started writing about withdrawal and SSRI when I realized that what I knew about these drugs was so different from official information. What I was feeling was at odds with what my doctor and the drug companies were saying about Paxil, which didn’t seem right to me. When I got better information about tapering off Paxil from the Internet than I did from the doctor’s office, I decided to share what I had learned. Medicine will catch up, eventually. Most doctors are compassionate people and don’t like to see their patients suffer. I think these drugs could have a place in treatment. It’s not the drugs themselves that are evil, just the way that profits dictate how they are prescribed more than medical need.
October 2, 2012 at 1:30 pm
For the last 10 years, all antidepressant package inserts contain warnings about withdrawal symptoms and instructions to reinstate and taper slower. If your doctor didn’t know about this, it’s because he or she wasn’t paying attention.
October 2, 2012 at 9:32 pm
bro i have jst taken 4 tablets of 5mg each…so u have gud xperince can u jst tell me approx how many months i ll face ths problems..have u ever seen any1 completly recovered i mean completely..pls dude help me out..r u completly recovered
October 2, 2012 at 9:41 pm
Each person is different when it comes to withdrawaling from an SSRi. Some people can stop without any symptoms, others have extended symptoms. It’s hard to say how long it will last. After taking Paxil for 10 years, I tapered from 40mg/day to 0mg/day in 5 months. It was 5 months of severe symptoms. Two months after I got to 0, I had to start taking 10mg/day again because I felt that my well being was in jeopardy. In the 8 months since then, I’ve been able to taper three times. I’m taking 6.8mg/day right now. My symptoms are mild and manageable, now. I should be able to get back to 0mg/day in another 6-8 months. My goal has changed from getting off the drug as quickly as possible to getting off the drug while maintaining as much quality of life as possible. Since you were only taking the drug for 5 days, you should be able to just stop rather than do an extended taper. Your symptoms shouldn’t last too long. It’s hard to estimate, but I would think that your withdrawal would be measured in weeks rather than months.
October 2, 2012 at 9:58 pm
frnd i was completly normal.if at all i had anxiety or depression it was completly manageable.i use to keep myslf calm..i jst went to the doc for a headache..i hav no idea why he gav me ths medicine.thnks to my mom tht i stoped it..how can doc b so careless..as i told u..yesterday night i felt very gud as if i was completly normal again.but it startd again in the morning…its just scaring the hell out of me..but ur words are lyk soo help to me.as if god has send u for my help
October 2, 2012 at 10:20 pm
Some people have very severe adverse reactions from taking an SSRI like Paxil only a few times. These people are hypersensitive to all serotonergics, including LSD and MDMA. When they go off, it can take some time for their nervous systems to recover. After quitting, they suffer symptoms very much like withdrawal syndrome.
October 2, 2012 at 10:23 pm
so u meant to say ..i can be completely normal in few weeks.how can i come to know m recovering…
October 2, 2012 at 10:41 pm
It’s hard to see progress with withdrawal symptoms. The best way to start is to separate existing emotions and symptoms from those that are caused by withdrawal. It takes careful attention to your state of mind and time to understand what is being caused by the drug and what is caused by the environment. Sometimes, I didn’t recognize progress with my symptoms until they had passed. Patience is the most important thing to have while going through the process. You will start to see improvement, but it may not be immediately apparent. I think that you should start to feel better soon because you were on the drug for such a short period of time. It’s hard to be more specific than that because SSRI affect each person differently. As Altostrata said, some people will have problems after just a few doses, others can take the drug for years without any negative side effects. I think the best thing to do is try not to dwell on your symptoms and remember that it is not a failing on your part that is causing your anxiety, but a reaction to a drug. Many people have recovered from SSRI, it shouldn’t have any permanent or long lasting effects on you.
October 2, 2012 at 10:52 pm
thnks dude..but the problm is that all of a sudden sum wierd thoughrs cum to my mind….whch is unbearable..let me b back in 2 weeks nd if i see ny.progres i ll sure let u knw okk nd if not do hlp me
October 3, 2012 at 9:37 am
Obsessive and compulsive thoughts happen in withdrawal from SSRI. It’s a hard symptom to deal with, sometimes. It’s as if the mind’s regulation is turned off. In normal thought, all kinds of thoughts float towards the surface of consciousness, but the irrational and obsessive ones are usually dismissed easily. Withdrawal allows those thoughts that are out of character to reach consciousness. Being mindful of which thoughts are normal and which ones are caused by a drug interaction can help. It’s hard to tell the difference, at first. All the thoughts coming to mind have the same weight in withdrawal. It takes time to see the difference and consciously dismiss the ones that you don’t want. Instead of being an automatic process, it becomes a manual process in withdrawal.
October 3, 2012 at 6:08 am
i forgot to mention that i was on divaa od(divalproex sodium nd valproic acid ) along with nexito…i stop it also…does ths medicine also dangerous nd have withdrawal symptoms
October 3, 2012 at 9:51 am
It may be the combination of an anticonvulsant and an SSRI that is causing your symptoms to be extended. I’m not as familiar with that kind of drug interaction. You might want to join a forum that deals with withdrawal. http://www.paxilprogress.org/ and http://survivingantidepressants.org/ are two good ones.
Your symptoms may have more to do with your anticonvulsant use rather than the SSRI. That class of drug has more capacity to cause adverse reactions right after starting.
October 3, 2012 at 10:23 am
but my symptoms nearly vanish by night dude…what is all ths happning m mean jat cant understand…..dud m i in sum trouble
October 3, 2012 at 2:58 pm
Most withdrawal symptoms are more severe in the morning, and improve over the course of the day. Reach out to friends and family. You need support, now. Withdrawal can be very hard to deal with, especially alone. If you feel like you’re in danger, please talk to someone about it. I found help at the forums I listed above, but I also talked to friends and family about what I was going through. It will get better. be strong, but rely on the strength of your relationships, too.
October 3, 2012 at 8:44 pm
my family not believng me dear…thy thnk m havng anxiety….nd may b i need to c a pychiartist….how can i mak thm belve tht m not acting nd its jst the medicine ..causing me al ths
October 3, 2012 at 11:16 pm
Have them read some of the forum posts and stories from paxilprogress.com and survivingantidepressants.org. There are many people in both places who can completely relate to what you are going through. It’s very common for doctors and families to misunderstand withdrawal, especially when the person experiencing it has existing anxiety. It’s very hard to convince them that this is a different problem, related to a drug, not regular anxiety. It may take some time to convince them that your symptoms are real. It’s easy for you to feel the difference, but sometimes family is slow to recognize what you’re going through.
October 4, 2012 at 5:30 am
bro u hav such a gud xperince…pls tell me how long it can tak forvme to b normal all again so tht i can prepare myslf for the worse…is thr a chance ny othr cause…did u evr saw ny1 wth permanent damage frm ssri..lyf is soo hell 4 me.
October 4, 2012 at 8:57 am
How long withdrawal will last is the hardest question to answer. It’s different for each person. These drugs seem to have a very individual effect on people. I’ve met people who were on very high doses of SSRI and antipsychotics and quit. It seemed that they had suffered permanent damage, but they recovered themselves, eventually. It’s very hard to see improvement when you’re living minute by minute with symptoms, but it does get better in time.
October 4, 2012 at 9:10 am
nd my libido level is gon so low…i was with my grl…whn i held her hands i dnt felt nythng…i kissd her but i wasnt able to feel a thng
October 4, 2012 at 2:43 pm
Depersonalization (that empty emotional feeling) and decreased libido are very common during withdrawal. Try to explain to her what’s happening. Assure her that it’s temporary. I had the same problem for a long time, but it’s improving, now. I was on Paxil for a lot longer, so I had the symptoms much longer than you should.
October 4, 2012 at 10:41 pm
u said long tym…how much???a mnth a yr????
October 5, 2012 at 9:42 am
My issue lasted for 10 years, BUT, I was taking Paxil for 10 years, too. It started to improve when I started tapering off the drug. It’s hard to say how long it will last for you, but it should start improving. You were on a couple drugs for a short period of time, which is a good indication that your symptoms should be short lived. Hang in there, it’s hard to see improvement at first, but it should start to get better.
October 5, 2012 at 12:14 pm
thnk god i meet u.. ur words relif..nw i hav som hop…1 doubt …as long as u used ur med u had low libido nd whn u tapperd ur libido improvd..isnt???
October 5, 2012 at 6:26 pm
Yes, it started to improve as I passed 20mg/day on my taper. Decreased libido and function are very common side effects of these drugs. I’ve heard people call them “anti-aphrodisiacs” as a pun on the name “antidepressants”.
October 6, 2012 at 3:20 am
dude ths me..shriraj..frnd use your such a gud experience u mght hav seen cases like mine..so just mak an analysis nd tell me how long it may tak for me to be completly allrght again…(in mnths or yrs) so tht i can prepar for the worst
October 6, 2012 at 10:02 am
How long withdrawal symptoms will last is the hardest question to answer. Each person has a unique experience with these drugs. Some people can take them for years, stop without a taper, and be fine. Other people take them for a short time and have symptoms for an extended period of time. There does seem to be a correlation between the amount of time that a person takes a drug to the length and severity of their symptoms, but there are exceptions.
It’s also very hard to look ahead and predict when symptoms will get better. Withdrawal proceeds in waves (feeling bad) and windows (feeling good) that can come and go suddenly. As time goes by, the waves get shorter, and the windows get longer. Eventually, you realize that you haven’t had a wave in quite a while. It’s not like a physical injury where a prognosis and timeline can be made based on similar injuries. I wish there was a way to be certain how long you will experience symptoms, but it’s too variable to really say.
The best way to tell how long you will have symptoms is to start to track your symptoms. At first, it can be very hard to gauge the severity of symptoms. Keeping a journal can help. As symptoms wax and wane, you will start to see patterns in the severity and length of symptoms. Patience is the hardest, but most important thing, to have in this process. Hang in there, it will start to get better, and when it does, it happens much faster than you think it could.
October 6, 2012 at 11:46 am
patcnce yaahh …u r rght let me wait wait nd wait…god will help me …i knw ….i lll hang on….thnk u ..dear frnd…u jst an angel for me..thnk u
October 6, 2012 at 1:08 pm
It doesn’t last as long as you think, or fear. It’s very hard to see the end of it when you’re living minute by minute. It does get better, though. I know the symptoms seem overwhelming right now, they can be severe. You have to see it as finite, something that will pass, though. It takes time, which is the hardest part about withdrawal.
October 6, 2012 at 9:27 pm
omg i m feelng recovry….i am upto a limit able to cntrl the wierd feeling ….wow wow feels grt
October 6, 2012 at 9:45 pm
That’s great. It’s important to remember that withdrawal happens in waves. I’m not predicting anything or trying to make you scared. Try to take stock of how you feel now and use that knowledge if your symptoms recur. The cycle of waves and windows will turn in your favor. The bad will get shorter, the good will get longer. It’s great that you’re feeling better. Controlling the symptoms of withdrawal takes a while, but you’re doing a good job of it, glad to hear it.
October 7, 2012 at 6:04 am
omg the wave ..it jst taks the hell out of me…..the wav always mak me frghtnd by sayng my symptoms are permnt….it wont go..u wont get ur sex driv back. ..how to mak it to my control…..wil it b permant
October 7, 2012 at 10:19 am
SSRI Antidepressant Concerns for Pregnant Women
Two of the three most commonly prescribed psychiatric drugs in the U.S. — Zoloft and Lexapro– are named in a class action lawsuit claiming these drugs cause birth defects.
These top sellers are SSRI antidepressants, a class of drugs that have been associated with a range of problems since their introduction in the early 1990s. Put simply, SSRIs change levels of serotonin in the brain.
EDIT(npanth): This is part of a larger post that Rebecca asked me to delete. I found that pulling this comment out of the comment section made the other comments appear out of order, so I have included just the preface.
October 7, 2012 at 2:11 pm
Thank you for the comment, Rebecca. I can’t imagine the choices that women who want to become or are pregnant have to make concerning their SSRI use. It was a very difficult process for me without the added pressure of affecting another life in that fundamental way.
October 8, 2012 at 9:03 pm
npath how long does it take nexito to be out of our system
October 8, 2012 at 9:23 pm
The drug itself is processed by the body in a relatively short time. It seems that symptoms are caused more by the body’s reaction than direct effects of the drug. An analogy would be a sinus infection. The stuffed up feeling comes more from the body’s reaction to the virus rather than the virus itself. Your system was shocked by the drug, it will take some time to reach equilibrium again.
October 8, 2012 at 10:34 pm
thnk u frnd …let me tell u how am feeling…nxt week
October 10, 2012 at 11:30 pm
Some people in withdrawal tend to think (based on their and others horrible and protracted experience) that a brain restructure caused by a neurotoxical damage, not only from SSRI’s but continuing to unveil during the withdrawal process, is permanent – they see a glass half-empty. More optimistically opinionated see the changes reversible, given the brain’s ability to grow new neurons and connections (plasticity). Both are just speculations. But what’s really mysterious about the nature of the withdrawal process is it’s tendency to wax and wane, sometimes coming back after a long period of remission and striking with even more brutal manifestations of symptoms. If you take into account that it’s not a linear process, still it’s hard to comprehend what has to be happening in the brain (and body) to produce such an effect of never ending and debilitating condition. This phenomenon leaves you in such a distress because in order to battle successfully you have to know your enemy, and this insidious “beast” is totally in disquise.
October 12, 2012 at 6:28 pm
Jane,there is no disguise in what you are going through,I feel your pain more than you think.
What you need to do is believe in yourself and know that this is happening to so many people.
You have to have trust that you will get better or you are never going to beat this.
I have faith in myself that I will beat this,I have no other choice .
Believe in yourself , keep telling yourself I’m going to get better and you will.
October 14, 2012 at 8:41 am
hii ths is shriraj …npath…dear my
symptoms became manageable thnks
for ur help….my libido however is
fluctuating….sumtyms its gud
sumtyms poor.. erection not full……
but i can say libido us not zero soo ….i
guess its all process of recovery isnt…
Reply ↓
October 14, 2012 at 10:46 am
It’s a slow process. It takes some time for things to return to normal. It will get better, though. Recognizing progress is the best way to get through it. You’re doing better than you were a few weeks ago, and that points to a resolution in the future. Hang in there.
October 14, 2012 at 5:02 pm
Thank you, Jay, for your support and kind words, but let me disagree with you. A belief can’t exist without a ground, at least a glimpse of light, some positive dynamics. What I am experiencing though tells me exactly the opposite – I am getting worse, haven’t gotten any windows for a long time, just a terrible solid wave – malicious insomnia, bone numbing fatigue and many more. I am scared of myself now, b/c the suicidal thoughts have become so persistent lately. I understand that people here are trying to soothe and comfort each other on this harsh and brutal journey, but the blogs and forums like this are the only places where we can share and find an understanding (folks outside are not able and, frankly, not willing to comprehend this very bizarre phenomenon). “Political correctness” is not appropriate here. The facts and some testimonies are so unambiguously tragic that they can’t serve as an evidence of the optimistic outcome. One woman’s outcry just reverberates in my mind – she’s 10 years down the road and exclaims rhetorically: who could she hold responsible for her ruined life. Of, course, there are some successful stories as well, but the problem is it’s unpredictable and unique for each person. Now tell me the reason for being hopeful here – I am not any more. Forgive me if it sounds provocative, I am writing with such a pain (didn’t sleep one minute last night, sleeping pills either do not work, or make me very depressed the next day). I am in a total despair. Sorry.
October 14, 2012 at 6:46 pm
“Forgiveness Is Giving Up All Hope Of Having Had A Better Past.”
Forgiveness is not process of hoping for a better future.
Forgiveness is giving up all hope of having had a better past.
It is a process of accepting that although the past did not turn out as well as we wanted it to, it is unchangeable, and thus all we can do is move on.
Forgiveness is a moment of realization.
One in which you understand that holding on to hopes of better Pasts leaves you with no room to hold on to better Futures and Nows.
This is what I was told by a Psychiatrist when I wished my accident never happened,or If I had not made all the bad decisions I did, I would not be in the position I am in right now.
I have been on psych drugs for ore 30 yrs,right now I am going through some of the worst pain and emotional distress I have ever experienced,I have had more medical test done than anyone should be aloud to have,there is nothing wrong with me,My GI Doctor and I talked about SSRI and it’s effects on the GI tract and agrees that my being off the drugs has heighten my IBS which is nothing more than nervous stomach.
The other thing about SSRi’s is that they have an analgesic effect on your body,so while your on them, those little aches and pains you would normally feel are lessened,I have accepted the fact that there is nothing wrong with me and I am training myself to ignore what I believe is drug withdrawal symptoms.Do you think that if you were seriously ill that you would have lasted as long as you have?
You have given up and the withdrawal has won.
You need help,and I think your best bet is to join a group,you definitely need so kind of distraction ,sitting around all day
and obsessing about whats happening to you is just making it worse.
I’m sorry to be so rash ,but I was the same way and gave up all hope,now things are starting to turn for the better,you need something positive in your life and right now you don’t have that,I don’t care what you have to do,but you need to find an outlet that makes you happy,no one knows better than you what would make you happy,excluding being symptom free
if that were the case none of us would be here.
I know right now your in a real deep dark hole,but the best way to get out of one is to stop digging it.
You have done enough digging it’s time to start crawling, up and out,I know it will be very hard to do,but you have to,
now else can do it for you.
BELIEVE IN YOURSELF.
October 14, 2012 at 7:23 pm
Please take care, Jane. This is the hardest part of withdrawal. I was in the same place for several months. That was the only time I’ve ever felt that my well being, perhaps my life, was in jeopardy. Reach out to anyone you can for support. This is not a permanent state, it will pass and get better. I know how difficult it can be to deal with the overwhelming nature of these feelings. They really do not let up much. It will improve, though. A friend of mine calls it “bunker mode” where you just hunker down until it passes.
October 14, 2012 at 11:22 pm
You, guys, are the only ones who I can turn to for help. You know as well as I do that no one is able to even remotely understand the condition, that’s why remarks and so-called well-meaning advices to just lead a normal life are so insensitive, that make a situation where you are so vulnerable, much worse. It’s like talking in different languages. With such an intense irritability/ anger/rage some interactions make things much worse. I don’t have a genuinely caring person, let alone group, I can think of. I am not sitting and obsessing about how miserable I am. First, I literally pull myself out of bed every day, otherwise I wouldn’t have been around by now. Trying to be proactive, experimenting with supplements, acupuncture. Unfortunately, had a bad set back with a psychiatrist who recognizes the condition and was supposed to offer some treatment; in reality, it turned out to be an empty promise, he collected the money and lost the interest. What compounds the severity of my symptoms though is that I have multiple chronic conditions and what worked for them before is not effective anymore due to the possibly altered response and triggers. So, I can’t alleviate the bronchospasm with the inhaler I used to, for example, and the specialist is totally bewildered about it. Thank you for your support. I’ll try my best but it’s immensely hard.
October 15, 2012 at 11:17 am
I had a lot of people tell me to just straighten out, or suck it up, or get over it, mind over matter… Most of it was well meaning, but missed the true nature of what I was experiencing. There was no consoling me at that point. I guess it’s a good thing that most people don’t know what it’s like to go through SSRI withdrawal. They didn’t understand the depth of emotion or the intransigence of the symptoms. There wasn’t anything that another person could really say that would improve what I was feeling.
Try to keep in mind that the symptoms are temporary. Withdrawal disconnects the intellect in a way that makes “mind over matter” not work. Keep thinking it, though. That’s the foundation for the mindfulness that will help later on. Hang in there.
October 17, 2012 at 3:22 am
today 12 30 pm…i felt empty from inside….my
mind was sayng jst end your life…it scared the
hell out of me…..whts all ths dear….i thnk i never
in my lyf had suicidal tendancy….so how is this
happening……m scared if it comes back i dnt
thnk i l b able to withstand it …..it was sooo soo
horrible
October 17, 2012 at 8:57 am
Take care when you feel like that, Shiraj. Many people get the same feelings out of nowhere in withdrawal. I never had problems with suicidal ideation before I started tapering off Paxil. It was an episode, though, it faded in time. Reach out to anyone you can for support. The feeling won’t last forever. Keep in mind that it’s caused by the drug, not some failing on your part.
October 17, 2012 at 11:18 am
that is the problem ..no one believes me anymore…even my parents…my friends not even my gf….they all say ether m acting or i am in some sort of psyciatric problem…so i have stoped talking about this to anyone..i think you are my only hope..
October 17, 2012 at 12:38 pm
It’s very hard to convince other people about withdrawal. Since it’s an internal crisis, there isn’t any way for them to really understand what’s happening to you. I didn’t talk about it much, either. Try to be honest about what you’re feeling. Withdrawal does get better, it’s not a permanent thing. Try to tell them that it will get better, because it will. It’s an odd irony that the person in withdrawal has to reassure the people around him/her that it will get better.
October 17, 2012 at 2:38 pm
I have exactly the same situation: the worse I feel (at the lowest points contemplatint the suicide), the more desperately I try to find an understanding – not only I can’t find a reciprocity or compassion, but it actually pushed people away. As an example that speaks for itself, I started a treatment (just to give it a try) with a practitioner in alternative medicine and gently suggested to familiarize himself with the concept of my condition through your, npath, article and some people comments. And what’s followed?!
“jane, here is my point: all of this forum stuff is flawed, even that persons ‘7 years of observations’ because the perspective is based in the same flawed, faulty logic that created the mess in the first place. that challenges and flaws in the the body/mind/energy are discrete single incidences of dysfunction that can be ‘cured’ with single, discrete ingredients, interventions or procedures.
it is the number one fatal flaw in ALL of this. so i deny this persons observations because they live in the same myopic viewpoint as what got everybody in this mess to begin with.
it shows no respect or understanding of the total natural integrated homeostatic balance the entire organism is. it seeks to take every down to its lowest possible common denominator which is essentially inert.
and, im quite sure that most of these people were already so physically, emotionally, spiritually and environmentally depleted and bankrupt to begin with that they would be incapable, using the same tired viewpoints, to actually heal themselves.
as einstein said ‘no problem can be solved from the same level of conciousness that created’. you must see the world anew.”
I apologize for the long quote but that’s the unambiguous result, moreover he refused to continue my treatment. I am coming to the conclusion that staying in the shelf is at least less traumatic than to look for the allies. It’s been a very traumatic experience for me.
October 17, 2012 at 3:21 pm
I began this journey being skeptical of the anecdotal accounts on websites and blogs, too. After many episodes where the doctors were wrong and the “amateurs” were right, I started to believe them. I think the disconnect comes from the fact that most things work as your doctor describes. If a mechanic tells you that your oxygen sensor is bad, but a website says it’s just the wrong gas, I would tend to go with the professional’s opinion. SSRI withdrawal is different, though. The official information is so far off base that it erodes the patient’s confidence in everything they say. Time and again, the symptoms that I described were properly diagnosed by withdrawal survivors when my doctor persisted in pushing new diagnoses and prescriptions on me. Even after I described my withdrawal in detail, my doctor still gave me the exact same tapering schedule he had before. He tried to diagnose me with a pre existing psychosis, despite having my 10 year history of social anxiety in front of him. That was very demoralizing. As I recovered, it was obvious to me that my symptoms were entirely caused by withdrawal. Otherwise, my symptoms would have increased as my dose of Paxil decreased. Instead, I have steadily improved as my dose of Paxil has gone down. It’s apparent to me now that Paxil was causing more problems for me than it was solving… another area where the amateurs are more right than the experts.
October 17, 2012 at 5:56 pm
That naturopath is taking the same patronizing “I’m the expert” position that medical doctors take. He’s blowing the usual alternative smoke. He doesn’t want to work with someone who asks questions. You are well rid of him.
October 17, 2012 at 6:53 pm
All I can say – thank you! So far, my very sad experience of seeking help from the outside of the fellow sufferers circle has never brought about any positive outcome, even the relationship based on paying generously for the service presumed to render some relief. I wouldn’t generalize, may be, it’s only my bad luck. Every time I end up thrown way back, having lost a fragile stem of hope, being depressed to the unbearable degree. I know, hypersensitivity (emotional, physical, mental) is to blame. I find myself completely off the track, totally wrecked and distraught. Yesterday, after a first acupuncture session, instead of anticipated decrease of anxiety level, I felt so agitated and depressed that even a sleeping pill didn’t knock me out. Should I just stop trying, lay down the arms and flow with the stream whatever it brings?
October 17, 2012 at 8:12 pm
Sometimes, acupuncture can have a stimulating effect on the body and nervous system. That can exacerbate withdrawal symptoms since part of the problem is that the nervous system has become very sensitive to stimulation. As I understand it, there are several different types of acupuncture. Some are stimulating, some are relaxing. I think you have to make that distinction to the acupuncturist when you go for treatment and ask for the relaxing treatment.
I’ve found that most doctors and therapists misunderstand the nature of SSRI withdrawal, and that misinforms the rest of their advice. I’ve met a few that understand it is an episodic and acute crisis that will respond to talk or cognitive therapy. I think it’s a fundamental problem with the philosophy behind modern medicine. Doctors are taught that the two pillars of modern medicine are surgical and chemical intervention. If all you have is a hammer and a crowbar, everything starts to look like a nail, or a bent nail.
October 7, 2012 at 2:05 pm
Waves have a feeling of permanence that they shouldn’t They do feel like they will never end because withdrawal changes our perceptions of reality. That’s how being mindful of changes in symptoms can be helpful. You’re fighting against instinctual emotions in withdrawal, using intellectual knowledge is the best way to combat a bad wave. Knowing that a wave isn’t permanent helps a lot. It will all come back to you in time, hang in there.
October 17, 2012 at 1:51 pm
shiraj: If you suddenly stop showing up here, many of us here will worry about what happened. Please tell someone who can help you in the nonvirtual world that you’ve had suicidal thoughts. I don’t think you want to kill yourself, but the w/d can bring on such despair that it may cause you to something preventable if someone in the real world knows your situation. Please tell someone who is in a physical position to help about your thoughts. Its none of our choice that the virtual world is our only hope–it’s really unacceptable that the nonvirtual medical establishment has washed its hands of this,horrible problem, but that’s the situation for many of us. Nevertheless, relying solely on online contact is not enough if you are suicidal.. And I definitely believe its as bad as you say.
October 7, 2012 at 7:34 pm
Your insights are very helpful to me.
October 7, 2012 at 8:16 pm
what all r u facing rebbca
October 8, 2012 at 11:38 pm
I’m facing a big battle, that is, when I can face it. Thanks for asking. My w/d symptoms are at the extreme end of the range. I did my first taper on my own. I will not be able to do the rest on my own.
October 8, 2012 at 7:57 am
I am just amazed that even now, after massive documentation of SSRI withdrawal effects, the medical establishment still denies it exists. In email correspondence with a dr. at Harvard, I received the following response. He apparently subscribes to the idea that these effects are “all in your head”–symptoms of the drug user’s own mental disorders and not caused by withdrawal of the drug:
“The concept that there are routinely “severe cognitive distortions” while tapering off of SSRI antidepressant medications is not a common/typical event; more likely the culprit is not routed in the medication itself.”
Best of luck,
JHH
John H. Halpern, M.D.
Assistant Professor of Psychiatry
Harvard Medical School
Director of the Laboratory for Integrative Psychiatry
Psychiatrist-in-Charge of Division Coverage
Acting Interim Medical Director of the McLean Residence at the Brook
Division of Alcohol and Drug Abuse
October 8, 2012 at 10:24 am
The denial facet of withdrawal fascinates me, too. When I went to my doctor at the bottom of withdrawal, he diagnosed me with an existing psychosis that was emerging because I stopped taking Paxil. He had my entire history of mild social anxiety right in front of him as he said it. I was amazed and frustrated that he would make that kind of diagnosis. I’ve never experienced those kind of symptoms before or since. To me, a lay person, it is obvious that I went through an acute and episodic trauma. The only correlation is my cessation of Paxil. If an amateur like me can make that obvious connection based on my anecdotal experience, why do doctors persist in refusing to see it? A small part of me thinks that it is a conspiratorial alliance between manufacturers and doctors to propagate the drugs. When I think about it rationally, I think that the problem begins when the drugs are studied. The FDA allows pharmaceutical companies to present two studies of efficacy vs placebo. Studies that do not prove efficacy can be discarded and kept privately by the companies. So, a company can do dozens of studies with negative results without a negative effect on the regulatory process. The intent of regulation is to compare and contrast the benefits and side effects of drugs and approve them based on all information. That intent has been subverted by pharmaceutical companies. Pharmaceutical companies have two mandates. Make a profit and make effective medications. The balance has shifted too far away from effective medicines, and too far towards profit seeking. I think the balance will eventually swing back towards a more balanced approach. Unfortunately, it will most likely be precipitated by some kind of societal crisis caused by the effects of SSRI use and withdrawal that the companies and doctors go to great lengths to dismiss.
October 8, 2012 at 12:46 pm
There are very well-meaning people who deny withdrawal syndrome. It’s an inconvenient truth for everyone. See http://criticalpsychiatry.blogspot.com/2012/09/what-does-it-mean-to-say-that.html and comments.
October 8, 2012 at 5:05 pm
Altostrata:
I am very happy to know there are people out there such as yourself that can debate or converse at the level you do. In my state I can only wish I had the knowledge and whit to engage the neigh sayers of this medicine. At one time in my life I would have engaged at this level but I will need much time I regret to say to become mentally healthy again. Please Please keep hammering those people harder and harder with your logic and knowledge. (I really wanted to write foul exsplative language)
Everyone on this site that speaks out about this condition please accept my sincere thanks. I can only hope to get better and join your/our crusade.
October 8, 2012 at 6:02 pm
Thank you, Dano. This debate over something that seems so obvious to some of us can be very exhausting. If you feel up to it, please add what you have to say about your experience to http://criticalpsychiatry.blogspot.com/2012/09/what-does-it-mean-to-say-that.html
October 8, 2012 at 6:12 pm
It’s interesting that Dr. Double claims that antidepressant withdrawal symptoms are primarily caused by psychological dependence. In great measure, that absolves the drug from any direct effect on the patient. It sounds like a corollary to the reemerging illness line we hear so much about. He seems to back away from that stance a bit in the comments, but just far enough to get a running start at it again.
It’s frustrating that it is so hard to convince clinicians and regulators of something that seems so obvious to the patients who have experienced it. I’m not sure what it will take. The avalanche of anecdotal incidents hasn’t changed things very much. Multi million and billion dollar settlements haven’t changed things very much. That’s part of the reason I chose to focus on withdrawal itself. I’m not a good debater or a vocal advocate. Debating with people like Dr. Double isn’t something I’d be good at, despite my belief that he is completely wrong.
October 8, 2012 at 6:20 pm
Thanks to your comments, I’ve seen what a waste of time my arguing can be, so I will not engage Dr. Harvard bigshot, but if I did I would ask him: Since 90% of serotonin receptors on in the gut, would you anticipate any disruption to the GI system when SSRIs are discontinued?
October 8, 2012 at 7:10 pm
npanth, unless you want to produce citations, all you can do is post about your own experience to refute that kind of nonsense.
October 8, 2012 at 9:18 pm
I have a small group of bookmarks that lead to citations, but I’m still in the beginning stages of collecting information. Because most of my information is personal, anecdotal, or communal (sites like yours), I can’t really make the larger arguments about withdrawal, yet. Perhaps I’ll get to that point
October 9, 2012 at 7:34 am
Npanth: I think you are a good debater.”He seems to back away from that stance a bit in the comments, but just far enough to get a running start at it again.” (nice!) With psych meds, it is very easy to take the stance that w/d symptoms are part of the users’ original make up. In your article re. w/drawal and anger, you state “anger forms independently in the mind. Instead of rising in response to an external event, withdrawal causes anger without context.” You get to the heart of how w/drawal emotions are uniquely caused by the SSRI disruption of serotonin/receptor ratios. This is an important insight and is difficult to grasp for those who’ve never experienced it. Even sympathetic and rational drs. can’t grasp that these emotions are different from nondrug induced emotions. Once a person is classified as a psych patient, emotions provoked by w/drawal are mistakenly assumed to be the reemergence of states that the drug was “treating.” It is a circular, closed world view, very self-reinforcing and self-justifying for those whose only tool is to prescribe these drugs.
October 10, 2012 at 10:10 am
Npanth: you write “Because most of my information is personal, anecdotal, or communal (sites like yours), I can’t really make the larger arguments about withdrawal, yet.” I think it is a mistake to think that the nay sayers are at a higher level of discourse that we need to rise to. By accepting their premises, the use of the word ” anecdotal” is unnecessarily dismissive of thousands of individual reports. Dr. Harvard can dismiss this evidence simply by describing it as anecdotal. Scientists think the response of inarticulate lab rats is more valid than 1000s of individual human reports. Science thinks it is infallible. What it can’t measure in the lab does not exist. Scientists operate on speculative theories and subjective interests much more than they want to admit. For instance, they simply accept the assertion that SSRIs “work” by increasing levels of serotonin. Yet, actual levels of serotonin in the brain can’t be measured.
The scientific world view is a kind of depersonalization: the personal is suspect.This is why the mainstream can deny the existence of ssri withdrawal. Interestingly, depersonalization is one of the effects of taking SSRIs. I and many others share the experience you describe: “I knew that I had become less empathetic, less self aware, more insular. I didn’t like the person I had become. Initially, I didn’t make the connection between Paxil and the strange sense of disconnection that I had developed.” Flattening out, limiting the range of emotion is one of the goals in prescribing SSRIs–problematic feelings are masked, with a net effect of distancing the user from personal experience. Certainly this can reduce negative emotions, but it also reduces positive emotions–a net effect of depersonalization–of distancing oneself from oneself and others. The goal of depersonalization is also the goal of science. Emotions are suspect. But, Intellect divorced from emotions leads to grandiosity–belief in ones own infallibility. This is a way of managing the uncertainties of life. The term anecdotal is a way of confirming a world view that denies the validity of personal experience. If we accept these assumptions, we deny the truth of our own experience, we accept that lab rats are a more valid measure of reality.
knew that I had become less empathetic, less self aware, more insular. I didn’t like the person I had become. Initially, I didn’t make the connection between Paxil and the strange sense of disconnection that I had developed.
October 10, 2012 at 11:21 am
David Healy explains the fallacy of dismissing anecdotal evidence here http://davidhealy.org/the-unbearable-lightness-of-being/
October 10, 2012 at 11:33 am
Thank you Rebecca. I try to moderate what I say about withdrawal. Because withdrawal is seen as an anecdotal problem, not described in literature or studies, I feel that I have to be careful what claims I make about it. The fact that withdrawal has not been widely studied is a convenient omission. I keep telling myself that I need to be twice as right and half as angry when I’m talking about withdrawal. I try to suppress the more emotional things I feel about it, because expressing those feelings would make my argument easier to dismiss.
I use the term anecdotal to describe individual experiences that have not been proven in a Randomized Control Trial. That’s the language of regulators and manufacturers. I think if we want to affect change in the way that SSRI are prescribed and used, we have to speak the same language. It’s frustrating, but I think it’s the only way to make progress. The preponderance of evidence that SSRI cause cognitive problems during use and withdrawal after cessation is obvious to me. Changing the regulatory behavior towards the companies and the way they study their drugs has to be done within the system, though.
October 10, 2012 at 12:06 pm
This is exactly why I’m collecting cases at http://tinyurl.com/3o4k3j5
October 10, 2012 at 11:51 am
Altostrata, I agree that adverse reactions to SSRI cannot be adequately captured in an RCT, and dismissing anecdotal reports because they are not described in an RCT is a circular argument that withdrawal doesn’t exist. Until the changes that Dr. Healy describes are instituted, we only have the current system to work with. He proposes that doctors contribute to the description of signals, which I would like to see. At present, though, doctors don’t adequately report adverse reactions. Only 1% of adverse reactions are reported. Writing about adverse reactions and describing them is a start. Eventually, the evidence of “anecdotal” reactions will become too much to deny and they will either be studied or described in some other fashion. I guess all we can do is keep going.
October 10, 2012 at 1:47 pm
I agree it’s helpful to use terms that the other side understands and i don’t fault your use of the term anecdotal–I know you don’t discount individual experiences. i’m a word person and can get sidetracked by semantics. in any event,this is all out the window when I deal with w/d. I’m just starting the taper and intellectualizing may be a way of putting off the dread. My arguments aren’t much help when dealing with the reality of w/d. I’m really afraid of it. It helps a lot to be in touch with others who have been through it.
October 10, 2012 at 2:33 pm
Rebecca, you’re way ahead of where I was when I started tapering off Paxil. I didn’t even know the basics, let alone tapering strategies or the larger issues of regulatory and prescription policy. I don’t entirely see the regulators, doctors, and pharmaceutical companies as adversaries. They have the authority to make the changes that we would like to see, they just lack the conviction to do it. It could be lack of information, deliberate, or conspiratorial. I don’t really see a huge conspiracy between pharmaceutical companies and regulators beyond the profit motive all of the companies share. We’ll get there, I think. When the balance between customer safety and profit has been changed in the past, it has eventually been corrected. From the Trust Busters at the beginning of the last century, to the chemical companies mid century to the tobacco companies late century, malfeasance eventually catches up with the companies.
I know what you mean about being afraid of withdrawal, it can be scary at times. You will reach a point where you understand it better in an intrinsic way, though. The intellectual information you’re banking now will eventually become internalized and withdrawal will lose its mystery. Once it becomes a known process, it’s much easier to gauge how you’re doing and see the longer arc of recovery. Thanks, your comments are very valuable to me.
October 8, 2012 at 9:00 am
Npanth: your insights are so helpful. I quote the ones that are most helpful for me:”My issues with antidepressants stem from the reckless way they are prescribed and the intentional lack of information about withdrawal and discontinuation that is provided by regulators and manufacturers.
The experience left me with a bit of bitterness.
Arguing just entrenches everyone in their positions and leads nowhere.
I was, and am, very angry at a system that allows people to suffer like that.
I focused that anger on the pharmaceutical companies and my doctor.
Acting out on those feelings would have been counterproductive to my recovery.”
Mpanth: I also find I focus my anger at the drug companies, and that this is counterproductive. I go into default argument mode. Your comments made me realize how this just exasperates withdrawal hell. I have been trying to get off of Zoloft for a very long time. My withdrawal feels like a combo of benzo withdrawal (anxiety); heroin withdrawal (flu-like symptoms and nausea); and LSD (perceptual/cognitive distortions).
October 12, 2012 at 8:15 pm
“I don’t entirely see the regulators, doctors, and pharmaceutical companies as adversaries. ” This statement has had big effect on me, I feel my anger lifting, Now I see the regulators and the pharma system on a parallel line, not intersecting, not on a collision course; So there’s no futile running up against a wall. Parallel is very peaceful., instead of being a boxer (Like the Paul Simon song)
October 8, 2012 at 12:01 pm
Npanth: I have one concern that I would like to ask you that I would rather not post to the internet. Is it possible to correspond with in private? Do these posts automatically post to the public view or do you moderate each one before posting?
October 8, 2012 at 3:47 pm
I don’t moderate comments other than the built in spam filter that wordpress provides. You can PM jheaney1 on http://www.paxilprogress.org/ or npanth on http://survivingantidepressants.org or @paxilwithdrawal on twitter to get in touch with me.
October 8, 2012 at 6:46 pm
For now, would you mind removing my long post: “SSRI Antidepressant Concerns for Pregnant Women.” I will explain this request later when I figure out how to send you a PM (my request is kind of important) (I registered at surviving antidepressants but I don’t think I can PM anyone while my account is so new; also, I’m not on twitter.)
October 8, 2012 at 6:49 pm
I changed the status of your comment to pending. If you would like me to repost it, let me know. Thanks. I look forward to hearing from you.
October 9, 2012 at 12:00 pm
npanth, I think you express yourself very well, and do fine with debate.
October 9, 2012 at 10:33 pm
Thank you for this so much. I’ve PTSD and went on Celexa, an SSRI after some really tough life events that triggered some severe symptoms. I was on it for 2.5 years. I tapered down 2mg a week for 20 weeks. This last month, I have been having the terrible emotions you wrote about…intense irritation, especially this last week, crying, panic attacks, barely controllable anger, tears at work. I started thinking it was the PTSD and I would have to go back on the medication. Do you think it could be withdrawal at this stage? Will it even it? I just started a job I love and graduate school, it’s a lot of stress and I have a loving partner now but he is irritating me tremendously when he didn’t before. I’m so impatient now. I am not having PTSD hallucinations or nigntmares but I feel like I am not handling the stress and getting triggered into anger/rage/ irritation. My usual ‘chill’ techniques are not working either. What do you think?
October 9, 2012 at 11:35 pm
It depends. The symptoms you describe are very much a part of SSRI withdrawal. They are also symptoms of PTSD. I would lean towards SSRI withdrawal because your taper was fast, which makes the symptoms worse. The best way to find out would be to reinstate Celexa at a lower dose. If your symptoms begin to abate in a week or so, it is almost certainly caused by withdrawal.
To calculate a reinstatement dose, start with the date you started tapering, and reduce the dosage 10% of your previous dose every 4 weeks. It looks like you were on 40mg/day and tapered for 5 months. Using that reduction schedule, you would be taking a little over 20mg/day now. I started on May 10, 2012, and reduced the dose every 30 days. You can get a spreadsheet that can help you calculate dose reductions here: http://www.paxilprogress.org/forums/showthread.php?t=41850
It’s very hard to describe the symptoms to someone who hasn’t experienced them, especially the anger and irritability. Try to be honest with your partner. You may say or do things that are out of character. It’s very hard to control the anger at times. Make sure to impress on your partner that you’re not doing it out of spite or anger or any other natural emotion. It’s driven from somewhere else. I wrote a post about anger and irritability here: https://npanth.wordpress.com/2012/07/02/dealing-with-anger-during-ssri-withdrawal/
Hang in there, the anger phase is frightening and hard to get through, but it does get better.
One question that might change the dosage is how long has it been since your reached the end of your taper? You said that you started experiencing symptoms this month. Was that when you finished tapering?
October 10, 2012 at 3:51 pm
I just went to zero on Sunday after taking 2mg slivers for a week. Wow, 5 months was too fast? I guess that is hopeful that it is SSRI withdrawal. I was thinking about the benefits since I started going off the medication…I a tally wake up in the morning and 7 to 8 hours is plenty….way cool. I feel more alive and the silly part of me is more there. I have still lost my sexy side and I hope my drive comes back. Is that from the withdrawal too? I have like no sex interest. I’m interested in the reinstatement and slower taper. What do you think I should go to?
October 10, 2012 at 6:29 pm
Isn’t it amazing how emotions and and that daytime exhaustion go away? I didn’t realize what was causing it at the time, but 5 years ago, I fell asleep at my desk every morning at 10AM. I tried energy drinks, coffee, going to sleep at 6PM! Nothing helped. When I started tapering off Paxil, my energy started returning. At this point, I don’t have that anymore. I didn’t realize how much my emotions were being suppressed while I was on the drug, too. It wasn’t until they started to emerge during tapering that it dawned on me that my whole perspective was wrong. I thought I was doing ok. Looking back, I was an insular, self absorbed shell of myself. It’s a little creepy how easily I was sold on this drug, and how profound and long lasting the effects were/are.
Decreased libido and function are classic symptoms of SSRI. It varies from person to person, but it usually returns after some time. I was essentially a chemical eunuch for 10 years. I thought I was either getting older, or had some other problem, or I don’t know. I started tapering off Paxil and wow… I wasn’t really prepared for that. Cool 🙂
When I first decided to taper off 40mg/day of Paxil, my doctor gave me a 2 month tapering schedule. I thought I was being smart by more than doubling that to 5 months. It was 5 months I wish I could erase, just scrub it out of my mind. Anger, depression, anxiety, dizziness, and a host of other symptoms. For people who are sensitive to these drugs, a much slower tapering schedule is required. It’s not acknowledged by doctors. They lack information about withdrawal, so they try to make a new diagnosis based on the symptoms. It’s a difficult diagnostic problem, most people who take SSRI did so for an existing condition. Separating the symptoms of that condition from withdrawal isn’t easy. If amateurs like me and others can do it, I’m certain that doctors should be able to do it, too. Your reinstatement dose of Celexa would be about 20mg/day. That should take away most of the symptoms. I wrote an article about reinstating here: https://npanth.wordpress.com/2012/06/14/reinstating-ssri-use-during-withdrawal/ You might want to start a topic at http://www.paxilprogress.org/ or http://survivingantidepressants.org/ There are many people there who have been through withdrawal, specifically Celexa. I know more about Paxil withdrawal and the common elements between that drug and other SSRI. There may be some symptoms/gotchyas to Celexa that they could help you with.
October 10, 2012 at 9:07 pm
I suffered a near fatal accident back in 1978,although I got over it physically I never got over it psychologically.
I was misdiagnosed by my first psychiatrist and told that I was suffering from depression and was put on enddep a very sedative drug and would sleep all the time,I did not like this drug so he put me on elavil (sp) after a year of feeling worse coming out of his office than going in,I tried suicide as you can see this didn’t work and was just a cry for help.
I found another psych and he diagnosed me with PTSD and put me on Norpramin and Xanax ,after 3 yrs of therapy
I was feeling good again,until I went back to the job that I almost died from,it didn’t take long before I was back to feeling like crap again and finally quit my job ,The Norpramin cause positional hypertension and I had to go on another ssri luvox
I never did get back to my same old self and have been on almost every psych drug going.
over 30 yrs of taking psych drugs and now I have, through not being able to tolerate the side effects of these drugs have stopped taking them,and get this ,my forth Psychiatrist has thrown his hands in the air as to what to do for me,he says that I am confrontational and I should continue my sessions with a, just out of collage psych student who has yet to experience
life herself,I am 61yrs old and she is 24 give me a break, these sessions do nothing for me.
Since stopping these drugs a month ago I am going thought the worst systems I have ever experienced.
I have been diagnosed with IBS and I am in severe pain,I believe it is because I am no longer taking an SSRI that I am experiencing all these systems,including all the ones people here are complaining about,I know I have a long road ahead
and it’s not going to be easy ,but I need to believe that these systems are caused by my brain trying to adjust to 30+ years of SSRI’s and now it is trying to remap.
I hope I can get through this,because I have no choice,I just wish I was told about the long term side effects and the
living hell I am going through right now.
Thanks for reading and I hope everyone gets well soon ,I’ll hang in there if you do.
JVBSR
October 11, 2012 at 9:42 am
Gastrointestinal problems are very common in withdrawal from an SSRI. Besides acting as a neurotransmitter, Serotonin is used in digestion. The symptoms are often diagnosed as Irritable Bowel Syndrome. Ironically, many doctors prescribe SSRI to treat the symptoms.
I know a couple people who have had to change psychiatrists because they were labeled “confrontational” or “difficult” I don’t understand that. That’s the very reason they’re seeing a psych, right? That’s like an IT person saying they can’t fix your printer because it won’t print.
You might consider reinstating on the last medication you were taking and doing a slow taper from there. Withdrawal can be traumatic in its own right. Even after long term use, many doctors will recommend a precipitous taper off the medications. The official taper method causes many problems for people who are sensitive to the drugs. Good luck, withdrawal can be hard, but it has other rewards. SSRI numb us cognitively and emotionally, suppress self awareness, and many other problems. Seeing that veil lift before your eyes is a really enlightening experience.
November 5, 2012 at 10:57 pm
I’d like to ask Jay Benson some questions about IBS. Did you have symptoms of IBS before withdrawal began? Was an onset sudden or gradual? Could you tell what exactly you are experiencing that make you or your doctor diagnose IBS? What are you taking to relieve pain? Any suggestions? I am having non-stop abdominal pain for about 2 weeks. Couple of days ago I recklessly took Ibuprofen because couldn’t stand it any more and it was a disaster – I had to go to the ER. They prescribed something containing barbiturates – and it made me so-o-o depressed. I noticed that every time I take any drug with anticholinergic effect (sleeping pill or benzo) I react with a bout of severe depression. I have no ideal what to do – it’s not possible to tolerate pain and insomnia infinitely but the adverse effects are as bad if not more. I don’t know which of 2 evils to choose from.
November 6, 2012 at 7:22 am
Hi Jane , Yes I did have symptoms before withdrawal but I believed they were brought on by Celexa ,which by the ways was one of the side effects of the drug, after reading about the bad press it got,my Dr. took me off and put me on Luvox,I just had an MRI down last Monday and it was normal,My GI Dr. has prescribed Donatol (BELLA – PHENOBARB) for pain and muscle spasms of the colon.I will let you know how this drug works out,in the meantime
I am still in a lot of pain,but I have noticed that certain foods are triggering more severe problems because of gas
associated with the digestion.
I also started to take 12mg of Luvox hoping to ease some of the pain,but I now know this was a mistake as now I am experiencing a lot of anxiety, panic attacks off balance and other side effects that I didn’t have before I was off the luvox ,so I am taking a slow tapper, even though I was only on it for a couple of weeks.
Its a vicious cycle that seems to have no end but now that I know nothing is truly wrong physically my approach
is to follow my GI Doctors advice and hope this will finally give me the mind set that I need to believe I can do this.
P.S Not all my days are bad just most.
Jay
November 6, 2012 at 3:00 pm
Hi Jay, thank you so much for your prompt reply. I was prescribed the same drug Donnatal in the ER but it doesn’t work for me – even when it makes the pain somehow easier, it doesn’t eliminate severe bloating as I am about to implode and that’s prevents me from sleeping for even 1 min. at night. I forgot to ask if you are also loosing weight due to that GI turmoil. And MRI in the case like ours – what could it reveal and can it replace a colonoscopy – I wouldn’t be able to sustain the procedure in the state I am now in – not sleeping at all for many-many nights, having lost a lot of weight, very weak and frail. I am about to see a GI doctor tomorrow (a new one for me) but I really don’t see how I can last, even till then. And anyway, what can I expect from just being seen in the office?
November 6, 2012 at 8:03 pm
HI Jane, yes I have lost 45lbs in the last 2 months,I just can’t eat ,between being constipated and diarrhea and the pain its a constant battle just to keep my sanity,A colonoscopy will probably show a little irritation or a polyp or 2,
but I have had 3 in the last 5 yrs and they have only confirmed what my Dr. and I already new ,diverticulitis.
The MRI was a last resort effort to satisfy My Dr. and Me that there were no underlying problems,cancer being the big one.
I wish there was something I could say or recommend to help you in your most dire situation,but I am at a lost for
suggestions,I will tell you this and you probably have tried it,but I will pop a couple of 1mg Xanax and hour before I go to bed,and it does help me sleep and relieves the pain to a tolerable level, not the best thing to do but it helps
me, so I do it.
I wish you well and good luck with your exam.
Jay Benson.
October 12, 2012 at 1:37 pm
Thank you so much for you article. It’s given me a lot of hope and it’s really refreshing to find a forum where we can discuss issues like this. There wasn’t any mention of side-effects or withdrawal symptoms when I was put on Effexor back 8 years ago. I’ve come to realize that while Dr’s do mean well, they have absolutely no idea what we’re going through (unless they’ve taken SSRI’s).
I was a longtime user (8 years) of SSRI’s for panic attacks and decided to start the tapering process about a year ago. I was on Effexor for the first 3 years and Citalopram for the next 5. Tapering was going really well until I got to the 10mg mark and it all went downhill from there. The withdrawal symptoms were horrific and as someone with anxiety, was making that and my panic attacks even worse. I was lucky enough to find a pharmacy that was able to compound the medication into REALLY small doses. They were able to get me down to 0.13mg which helped but the withdrawal has continued fast and furious. I began to get symptoms of depression which I’d never experienced before. Along with it came some OCD-type intrusive thoughts. These symptoms have been debilitating me for the past 2 months. I’m now struggling with the idea of going back on medication (which I really don’t want to do). It’s hard to know if these newly developed depressive/OCD type issues are a result of the stopping of the meds or something that was dormant in me. As one user described I”m also getting that surge of depression/dread/anxiety in the AM as soon as I wake, which doesn’t make for a very productive day. If you could shed any light on these new issues that I’m experiencing that would be great. I just don’t feel like myself and wonder if I ever will again.
Thanks again for your wonderfully informative post!
October 12, 2012 at 2:47 pm
The combination of symptoms that you describe sounds very much like withdrawal. I often wondered if tapering off Paxil was unmasking some intrinsic problem. Over time, though, it became clear that the issues I was experiencing with anxiety, depression, panic, obsessive thoughts were all related to tapering off the drug too fast. In order to be an underlying issue, the symptoms would have continued to get worse as the dose of drug became lower. Instead, those problems have all gone away. It’s obvious to me now that they were caused by withdrawal. Beyond that, it appears that Paxil was causing some of the issues that I was taking the drug to deal with. I got depressed every 4-6 weeks for 10 years while I was taking Paxil. That issue has resolved itself now that I’m on a much lower dose.
My doctor didn’t understand withdrawal, either. He made several new diagnoses that were based on the chemical imbalance theory. Instead of recognizing that what I was feeling was episodic, he tried to convince me that it was a lifelong issue. If I had followed his advice, I’d be on Paxil as well as two other psych meds at this point. I think I would have deteriorated instead of improved. I agree with you that he probably meant well.
I can understand your feeling that you would rather not get back onto the drug. The issue is one of quality of life, though. It took me a long time to come to terms with the idea that I need to taper off Paxil very slowly. I still feel the head-full-of-wool feeling, but I can also see the old me emerging slowly. I don’t get the anxiety, panic, obsessive thoughts, morning anxiety or other symptoms anymore. From my original dose of 40mg/day, I’m down to 6.8mg/day. I’m getting close, now. It will be several months before I get off Paxil completely, but it’s within sight. There’s a big temptation to speed things up, but I’m doing my best to be patient about it. Withdrawal has a way of catching up with you all at once. You may do a taper or two and feel fine. Then the cumulative effects of several tapers appear. My last two tapers have been virtually symptom free, but I’m not going slow so I feel better tomorrow. I’m going slow because I want to feel better two months from now, too. Keeping my slow schedule will pay dividends when I reach 0mg/day.
I hope that helps. I’m sorry you’re feeling bad. I remember that feeling, it stinks to feel that the symptoms will never get better, that there’s something wrong with you. One of the nuances of withdrawal is that you can’t recognize progress as it’s happening, only after it’s happened. Hang in there.
October 12, 2012 at 4:13 pm
hmmm….no sure why my post was listed before older posts.
October 12, 2012 at 7:01 pm
That started happening on this post about a week ago. I think that the number of comments may have surpassed WordPress’ comment system. Too many nested replies, maybe.
October 13, 2012 at 12:04 am
yes, well this seems to be a popular thread and I completely understand why — WordPress`comment system doesn`t know what`s hit them! Thanks for your insight and kind words. It’s so true about the good and bad days. Today I feel really strong mentally but who knows that tomorrow may bring. It`s great to know that there are other people dealing with the same issues as I am and I can come back here to get feedback if need be. As many other users have already stated, while our family and friends mean well and care about us, they really don`t understand the complete turmoil that is going on in our minds. Thanks again and best of luck with your journey!
Also, because I had so much trouble tapering off my meds and my Dr. was completely dumbfounded that I wasn`t able to go from 5mg of Citalopram to 0mg, there is an amazing company called pharmacy.ca. They are a Canadian company and as far as I know only available to Canadians…BUT they have amazing tapering programs and was able to go as low as 0.13mg. So for any Canadians that are struggling as much as I was I encourage you to check them out — they saved me!
October 13, 2012 at 11:35 am
wele, thanks so much for posting about pharmacy.ca I see some very valuable information at http://www.pharmacy.ca/ssridiscontinuation.shtml?active=15 — they’ve documented better results with a slower taper!!!!
October 13, 2012 at 12:21 pm
That’s a great link, thanks for posting it… bookmarked! It’s amazing that there is documented information about tapering and withdrawal symptoms. That kind of information is rare. A compounding pharmacy is a great resource. I haven’t been able to find one around here, yet, so I’m filing my pills down with a swiss army knife. It’s working so far, but it’s not the best method. The slight variations in dose is a risk. I’m just glad I was able to convince my doctor to prescribe 10mg pills… only took 9 months. Cutting and filing those 40mg pills was too hard, my symptoms were all over the place back then.
My theory about the comments is that some reply in here is messing up the sorting system. If I could figure out which one it is and pull it out, the whole thing would re-sort back to the way it should be. I’m not going to start messing with it like some Jenga pile, though.
October 13, 2012 at 3:02 pm
lol…yes, best to to mess with the Jenga pile. I remember the days of filing down my pills in the kitchen. I can`t even describe how ecstatic I was when my doctor found this place. It was actually relatively close to my house and they are SO friendly there. I was almost ready to jump around the counter and give them a hug….but quickly decided that wouldn`t be appropriate 😉
Altostrata, yes, I was also very excited and surprised to find the information on the benefits of tapering. I also checked out your site yesterday and was very happy to see the plethora of information. I think I`m just happy to have finally found some answers. All of these resources have given me some hope 🙂
October 14, 2012 at 7:40 am
i have been clean of all ssris for 6 months 2 weeks and still my head feels awful, full, frazzled, sick but not depressed!!! just horribley horribley wrong????? any advice, have been taking 5 htp on shrinks advice for 2 days, nothing!!! i hate the length of time this is takin!!!!!!!! anyone any advice? x
October 14, 2012 at 7:51 am
Hi I was on ssris for 15 years i am 36, have been off for 6 months and 2 weeks and I still feel awful!!! not depressed, but horrible horrible head feeling, fog, sad, confusion, hurting, cluttered, physical feeling of wanting remove sometihing from my head, I hate it and it is taking soooooooo long, i will never ever ever take ssris or any medical head drug again but my my shrink has told me to take 5htp i have been on for 2 days and i pray it helps, any advice please because i just dont know what to do!!! i want to get on with life, have a baby but can do anything until i feel mentally stable, any advice?? x
October 14, 2012 at 10:39 am
What method did you use to taper off the SSRI? People who are sensitive to SSRI have to taper off these drugs very slowly, much slower than the schedules that most doctors use. I think that the brain adjusts to the lack of an SSRI at about 10% reductions each month. That’s why the slow taper method seems to minimize symptoms. Fast tapering and quitting cold turkey seems to shock the system, making symptoms more severe and long lasting. 6 months out may be at the break even point for trying to reinstate and do a slow taper. It’s hard to say how long the symptoms will last, withdrawal is a very crooked road. The steady symptoms will begin to break up into waves and windows. Slowly, the waves will get shorter and milder, the windows longer and better.
I haven’t tried 5-HTP. I’ve read some comments and articles that express concern about it. It works in a similar way to the original SSRI, which may alleviate some immediate symptoms, but prolong the overall progress of withdrawal. Withdrawal is about immediate problems, though, so I wouldn’t discourage you from using it if it is helping.
The best method for dealing with withdrawal symptoms is to be mindful of where they originate from. It’s difficult at first to divide feelings into those caused by withdrawal and those that arise naturally. At first, there is no context to judge emotions. They all seem to arise from the same source. Eventually, it becomes easier to separate them out and it becomes almost second nature. Some emotions need to be dealt with in order to process them and understand why they’re occurring. Other emotions are just being thrust upon you by the drug. Those need to be dealt with, but not incorporated like a legitimate emotion.
October 14, 2012 at 8:17 pm
today I got a combo of dha (fish oil) and phosphatidylserine. I’m also reducing anger, caffeine and practicing being happy.There seem to be a lot of opinions pro and con re. supplements, etc. I think when someone is in despair re. withdrawal, they have to try a lot of things, no one should judge, no one can tell them what to do –no one else is in your shoes. My ND thinks liver detox is very important. I think laughter is important. I do know that acupuncture if done by a skilled practitioner (that’s very important) can do a lot. I went to acupuncture with massive brain fog depression, and the treatment lifted the fog. I’ve realized that giving up finding someone to blame is key to my own survival.
October 15, 2012 at 1:40 pm
So I got the advice to get phosphatidylserine from a different SSRI w/d website. Now, I’m Reporting back from the trial and error approach .This supplement wasn’t what I needed — Caused brain fog. I’m tending toward the view of supplements as too hit or miss to be much help–with the fluctuations of w/d so variant who knows at any given point what amino acid might be helpful or which is just as likely to be detrimental.
October 15, 2012 at 6:33 am
Jane,I truly hope you get better,just hang in there and keep us up to date.
October 15, 2012 at 7:46 am
thanks for reply npath, I do think possibley my 6 month taper off of seroxat was too fast but there is absolutley no way I would ever reinstate to taper again. I just need to keep going, the thing with 5htp is I dont want to then withdraw from something else but then CITA an organisation for ssri withdrarawl suggest it too, i might give it a few weeks then stop, my shrink also recomended it to help start fixing nerouns, i would love to take nothing but it got so bad that i needed to try something (but as i said would never take a chemical drug every again!!). good news is I am following a raw food lifestyle and that has done wonders for the body and energy levels, I am just waiting for the head to catch up!! x
October 15, 2012 at 11:40 am
I wouldn’t discourage anyone from trying supplements. I’ve tried to stay away from them because I don’t want to complicate things… they’re tough enough as is. I think it’s important to bring up the concerns that people have about them. We got into this mess in the first place because people didn’t give us all the information about what we were taking. Withdrawal is a very personal and individually unique experience. If a supplements helps, that’s a good thing.
I understand your sentiment about not taking the drug again. I felt the same way. After realizing that the drug acts very differently than we expected, it’s very hard to start using it again. I reinstated on Paxil two months after tapering off. It was a very hard decision. I had come to treasure the reawakening that I had experienced off Paxil. Friends who had known me from before I started Paxil all commented on how the old me was coming back. I didn’t realize how much Paxil had suppressed my character and mind. A self fulfilling effect. I needed to maintain some quality of life, though. I felt the Paxil blanket lowering over my mind within a week. It was infuriating to watch my mind slip away into a drug fog, again. 10 months later, I would still do it again, though, despite the cost. My mind is slowly reemerging and I don’t have the overwhelming symptoms I had before. I’ll get off this drug, just a lot slower than I thought. I hate taking those pills, refilling the prescription feels like a failure every time I do it. It serves a greater victory, though.
You’ll get better, either way you go. I hope the symptoms are short lived. Progress comes on suddenly, you may be just a few days away from a breakthrough. Here’s hoping 🙂
October 16, 2012 at 4:47 am
thats the nicest thing anyone has said that I could be days away from a breakthrough, I will think that every day!!! good news is I am going on holiday for a week to greece tomorrow and if I am not too agitated and frazzled I am going to lap up as much vitamin D as possible, 5HTP doesnt seem to be doing anything anyway< and I agree with the fact that just let nature take its course, I just needed to try something, heres hoping the breakthrough is very soon, I soooo want to start a family and time is running out I am 36 but just cant do it until I feel mentally able to handle it and with withdrarawl I just cant have anything else added to my plate!!! x
October 16, 2012 at 9:50 am
Mel Fischer always said “Today is the day we find the treasure” when he was searching for the Atocha. He said that for years until it came true. Our hunt for wellness won’t take as long, hopefully, but the sentiment is appropriate. I had a wave last March were I started slurring my words and had trouble with fine motor control. My friends and family were worried that I had a stroke. It came on suddenly, and went away just as suddenly two weeks later. It was the beginning of period of steady improvement that has continued up to this point.. It’s hard to know what’s happening in your mind. I think waves are external symptoms of the brain adjusting, which is the foundation of recovery. Have fun in Greece, savor the wonder of doing nothing in a beautiful place.
Try to put the idea that time to have a family is slipping away out of your mind. Withdrawal has a feeling of permanence that it doesn’t really have. It feels like it will last for years, even forever, but it does get better, and faster than you would think.
October 16, 2012 at 11:14 am
thank you, this is the encouragement i need! My husband thinks i shouldnt look at other peoples withdrarawl developments but it is the only thing that keeps me going as sometimes it is sooooo bad and I need to see that other people get better, thank you for your kind words! x
October 16, 2012 at 1:44 pm
I agree and disagree with your husband. There is a fine line between seeking encouragement and obsessing over symptoms. Being mindful of your symptoms, and determining if those problems come from withdrawal or some other place is important in recovery. Being consumed by the symptoms and trying to understand what causes them is part of withdrawal from an SSRI. Many people go through the same process. We’re forced to seek out information from other patients because the official information on withdrawal is so lacking. Be aware of the amount of time that it dominates your thoughts, and step away if you feel that it’s getting to be too much. It does fade over time, though. I lurked on dozens of websites, mined the FDA adverse reactions website for months, seeking validation for what I was feeling. My doctor didn’t understand what was happening, and I needed to fill that gap somehow. Over time, as I came to understand it myself, I didn’t feel the need to search as much. I still read, but I intrinsically feel that it doesn’t have the urgency and desperation that it did before.
A loved one sees the obsession as something that is developing and may continue forever, just as the patient sees withdrawal symptoms as permanent. It’s an episodic crisis, though, and will fade away with time.
October 16, 2012 at 7:27 pm
I have a sort of question/comment. A fine or even invisible line is not only between “healthy” search for help, or info that may lead to that, and a complete “unhealthy” immersion into the environment of withdrawal symptoms. For me the puzzle of distinguishing between a cause and effect and trying to determine what makes things worse or better (hasn’t happened for a long time) – be it a supplement, or a new treatment, or any possible change that went unnoticed – is totally insolvable. Given a constantly altering character of the condition, how to get to the root of the aftermath event? Also, has anybody heard or tried MPS (microcurrent point stimulation) or abdominal organ massage (Chi Nei Tsang)? There is also an Alernative to meds Center in Arizona that claims to treat the psychiatric problems, including an AD withdrawal, by natural modalities. Too good to be true?
October 16, 2012 at 7:29 pm
Yes, too good to be true. I worked with them for 2 years.
October 16, 2012 at 9:22 pm
I’ve generally heard neutral to bad things about those kind of supplements that claim to alleviate SSRI withdrawal symptoms. I don’t have any experience with them. I’d go with Altostrata’s direct experience.
As to the line between obsession and healthy study on the topic, you’re right that it’s hard to tell sometimes. Withdrawal is such a misunderstood phenomenon that it takes long study to even begin to understand what’s happening. It’s chaotic, too, because there is so little official information about it. I’ve seen many people read and post about their experiences almost compulsively. That’s not a bad thing in my mind. It’s an attempt to understand what’s happening, which is a natural reaction to such a traumatic thing as withdrawal. I’ve also seen many people have that compulsion fade away as they begin to understand the nuances of withdrawal. In a way, it’s a good thing to see a person stop posting as much because they no longer feel the need to do it. It’s an odd sentiment to have on a blog or bulletin board, where the goal is usually to sustain as much traffic and conversation as possible. Just another odd irony of withdrawal, I suppose 😉
October 17, 2012 at 2:24 am
thanks again guys now i dont feel so bad about seeking information, but as i said most of the time i am looking for a suceess story that makes me think i am almost there! near as you said breakthrough day! I am 100% sure I am not as bad as during the taper a year ago, 6 months 2 weeks off today. Can I ask are there suceess stories that have come through here?? if there are can you tell me about them??? I do think if i can get on a plane today then how bad can i be but i guess a zombie could get on a plane, i am fine with doing things, going to work, holiday, socialisning i just feel awful while i am doing them, sometomes work is a great distraction though! x
October 17, 2012 at 9:08 am
There are many, many success stories in SSRI withdrawal. You don’t hear much about them because they generally move on rather than share the result. Withdrawal is generally a traumatic thing, most people don’t want to dwell on it after they get through it.
I would say that I’m a success story… in progress 🙂 My symptoms are minimal and I have a good tapering plan. After tapering too fast and seeing the bottom of the pit, I’m getting back to normal, and better than the “normal” I experienced while I was taking Paxil. After 10 years of numbness, I can actually see the real me emerge again. It’s awesome. It was worth it.
November 5, 2012 at 4:03 am
well after 11 days being back from the awful holiday I certainly dont feel as bad as I have been, very minimal brainfog, which for me is always the worst. I still have been feeling anxious and find that i can go into a panic easily, like when i am on the underground/subway i freak out that i am in an enclosed space but i can just about get through it, but then that anxiety stay s with me for the day which is not pleasenet. I am assuming and hoping that the tendancy to panic is heightened bu the withdrarawl and that it will calm down. I also can cry at any sad or happy thing, i by no means feel recovered as my body tells me that every morning when i wake at 5:30am anxious when i dont have to get up until 8am, but i would say the last weeks has been an improvement and i really really really hope it continues to get better, I had this 3 months ago and then had a really bad long wave of feeling appauling!! THIS COULD BE THE BEGINING OF THE FULL RECOVERY!!!! news is last week throughout some rubbish feelings I managed to get my dream job!!! so if I can achivev that while I feel so rubbish, anything is possible!! I hope the improvemnt and corner turning is on its way!!! Also being on here less indicates I dont need it soo much. I have had fort he last 6 months the most painful ankles so much so that i limp when i walk sometimes and i am fairly young at 36 so not quite oled enough to start having aches and pains and today it dawned on me it could be withdrarawl, i refered to my withdrawrwal guide and there it was muscle and joint pain, anyway off to the docs about it today as they said if it continued they would do an xray, hope it is that not arthritis x
November 5, 2012 at 9:33 am
It’s strange how stressful episodes can lead to windows in symptom severity. Sometimes, it can be cathartic to go through a wave. I also think that waves are outward signs of the brain readjusting to a new functional state. You’re reaping the benefit of that reorganization. There may be new waves in the future. There’s a fine line between fear and hope at this stage of withdrawal. Don’t worry that you will slip backwards. It may happen, it may not. The important thing is that you know that waves aren’t permanent. The waves will fade away and eventually there will be nothing but window. I’m not saying that you will slip back into a wave. It’s just the nature of withdrawal to go through waves and windows. At first, there’s just wave. Then it starts to break up into good and bad cycles. Eventually, the waves get milder and shorter, while the windows get longer and better. I clung to the first window I had a little too much. Slipping back into a wave was a very powerful disappointment for me. It kept me scared of recovery for a long time. I kept thinking that any improvement was just a prelude to the next wave. Eventually, that fear slipped away as I entered the window I’m in now, which has lasted 7 months. Take heart that you’re feeling better, but don’t despair if you slip into a wave in the future. That wave should be shorter and lead to a better window.
Congratulations on getting the job! Starting a new job is an anxious time. Try to remember the other jobs that you started, which seemed impossible at first, but quickly became doable as you learned the new routine. It may cause some anxiety for a couple weeks, but that should fade away, just like a wave.
November 17, 2012 at 6:42 am
so I have been speaking to a anti depressant withdrarawl helpline over here and funnily enough they too have said i was weaned too fast from ssris and I have obly just figured out what everyone means and I am a bit annoyed now and my psychitrist for being so irresponsible!! so I was on seroxat for 11 years and tapered from 20mg to 0 over 6 months which I think was persfect as this was happening I was being upped on prozac. so then i was on prozac for 4 months and then swapped straight to effexor and was on that for 4 months and then when I decided to off everything I was taken off efexor in the space of 4 weeks, 150mg to 0 in 4 weeks!! The psych said I hadnt been on it long so there would be mo withdrarawl, but the point that the counciller on withdrarawl helpline made was that no matter what brand of ssri or anri I was on they all do the same thing and ultimatley, whetehr i was switched or not, I stopped taking all ssris/snris in the space of 4 weeks!!!! no wonder i feel so bad, i never thought of it like that, I still wont reinstate but I am very mad that this could have been easier for me, andyway almost 8 months free of AD and will keep going, still feeling pretty bad though, that change I though I was having has amounted to nothing, tomorrow could be a breakthrough! x
November 17, 2012 at 11:17 am
A lot of people are given very fast tapering schedules to get off SSRI.I think it works for many people, so doctors apply it to everyone. The issue is that it doesn’t work for everyone. People who are sensitive to these medications can’t tolerate a fast tapering schedule. I think a new category of tapering should be added to the procedure. If a doctor sees a patient doing well on a fast tapering schedule, that’s fine. If the patient starts to experience problems, the schedule needs to be adjusted. Doctors currently continue to press the fast tapering schedule despite the problems it causes for their patients. I wish that established medicine would be more willing to investigate withdrawal instead of denying it.
I hope you do get to a stable spot soon. I feel bad that you’ve been having so much trouble.
November 18, 2012 at 4:39 am
Dont feel bad for me i know i will get there, but thank you, im just mad that i have only just realised this is what has happened. It could have been so diffrenet, anyway i guess i am learning a life lesson and as so many people have said, if you get through withdrarawl the rest of life is easy, i truly belive this!! heres to another day that could be a turning point x
November 2, 2012 at 4:45 am
so i went to greece and it was awful, i feel so ungrateful saying that as some people have nothing, but it was just a very bad time. Brain fog, depersonilasation and realisation, frazzled, crying all the time, but weirdley now and then 2 hours of absolute normalitly, how i would love to be all the time) and then straight back to withdrarawl, i hate that the feelings tease me on an hourly basis!! I was so happy to be home because at least I can try and distract myself, on holiday you are stuck, we did some walking which helped. I would have loved nothing more than to have ehad a drink and relax but I dont drink anymore because of withdrarawl but look forward to the day again when i feel i can handle a glass of wine with no ill effects. I stopped taking 5htp as i couldnt tell if it was making things worse, and i hate the ritual of having to remember to take something, it is like ADs all over again, so that only lasted 5 days before I stopped. Since I have been home I have felt much better, still not great but better. I wake up with palpitations every morning at 5am and I am sure that sets me up for a bad day. But then this week I have had to present for 3 hours to 50 people at work and it was easy and I felt fine, yet this morniing again felt awful, not so bad again as typing!! i hate the ups and downs!!!!!! x
November 2, 2012 at 8:15 am
I’m sorry you had trouble on vacation. It’s still a good step that you went there. Speaking in front of a large group is an accomplishment, too. Most people are nervous and anxious speaking in public, which is exacerbated by withdrawal.
The up and down of withdrawal is really frustrating. It’s very hard to measure overall progress when symptoms fluctuate so much. As strange as it sounds, that’s progress. When the symptoms start to break up into waves and windows, it is the beginning of recovery. As time goes by, the waves will get shorter and milder, while the windows will get longer and better. Hang in there, you are getting better.
November 8, 2012 at 5:17 am
so I dont want to say it out loud and I have a really long way to go but I have had 2 weeks of not feeling as bad, belive me I want a better quality of life than this but I do feel better! What I really struggle with at the moment is the early early waking, 5am and anxoius its almost like it sets my day up badly, last night I had a lovely 2 hours with my husband and parents felt persfect and had fun and the 5am boom!! anyone have any experience of bad sleep? especially early wakeings x
November 8, 2012 at 5:27 pm
I am just the opposite,I wake up felling fine for 10 to fifteen minutes and gradually by the time I’m ready to come home
from work between 4 and 4:30 pm, I am so hyper that I get little panic attacks and a feeling of off balance,This time of year is extremely hard for me,It’s the anniversary of my accident and my attempted suicide.
I seem to relive the accident with all it’s PTSD symptoms,it’s something I have never been able to prevent to this day.
From now until February,I will have nightmares,and suicidal thoughts,Even at my best I could not stop this from happening.
Even if I beat withdrawal,which I know I will,reliving my anniversary is something I will and have been doing for the rest of my
life,it’s something I have accepted and I deal with it.
Today I had a good day right up until 4pm,I went to move and I got a little off balance and panicked,I know what it is,but your mind just sets you up and all you can do is deal with it.
It’s funny but sometimes I feel like I’m not supposed to feel good for fear of something else happening,and I think this happens to a lot of people.
I have to believe I will not die from a panic attack,I know it’s something I really need to work on.
Here’s to better days and longer happiness.
Jay Benson Sr.
November 8, 2012 at 9:36 am
Early morning anxiety is very common in withdrawal. Withdrawal disrupts the Cortisol cycle. Normally, cortisol rises as morning approaches. It’s meant to wake us up and make us alert for the day. Instead, Cortisol levels spike during withdrawal, leading to panic and anxiety in the morning instead of alertness.
I used to call it the Paxil Alarm Clock. I would jolt out of bed with an overwhelming sense of dread and anxiety. It didn’t have any particular focus, there was no nightmare or trouble that preceded it. It faded away slowly. As time passes, the cortisol cycle returns to normal. It’s a frightening thing to have to deal with. As you say, it really starts the day off in a negative way.
I know what you mean about not wanting to jinx your improvement. It feels fragile at first, but stability will gain strength and momentum as time passes. You may still have waves where you feel symptoms again, but they won’t last as long, and will lead to better windows of stability, again.
November 9, 2012 at 12:13 am
Jay, I’m sorry that you have to go through this so often. Recognizing that they are temporary is a powerful weapon to use against those hopeless feelings. Perhaps your anniversary anxiety will fade in time, it would be great if if did. Withdrawal can have another long term effect on people. It makes us much more aware of our emotional state and more mindful of the ways that we can control our own minds. I wouldn’t call it a silver lining, it’s more like the way a bone will grow stronger at the point it was previously broken.
Most people seem to have their anxiety spike in the morning, but withdrawal is frustratingly diverse in the way it affects people. It seems to affect everyone in a slightly different way. The only certain thing seems to be that it does fade over time, hopefully, a short time.
November 9, 2012 at 6:36 am
Its good to know that this is common then, infact its one of the easier things for me to put down to withdrarawl because when I was actually dpressed this was the first sign. As I stated so many times, I am not depressed, I do not feel depression, what i feel is totally broken but as I said slightley only slightly improved, but to notice that improvemnet is a big step! So this morning I woke up at 5 feeling immense fear and of absolutley nothing just fear, so weird, and cried about 3 times today already and its ot even midday, but not dpressed. I swear to god when I am through this, and I said to my husband in bed this morning in a years time from now this should hopefully be a distant memory (as I have already suffered for 7 and a half months), I am going to do something to help people and campaign against unnesecary long term use of AD. Today I feel like I could just loose the plot, not anger but just go mentaly insane, it is horrible!!!!! Thanks again for your reasoning. Jay I feel for you, it sounds like you must have had a horrfifc accident and I am sure as npath says in time it will fade, I too was in a bad accident in Australia in 1999 in which I was seconds away from dieing although I was not injured, this is what I was given ssris’s for (once at university i was on a trycillic for a few months but looking bag I was just getting paranoid from smoking to much pot I am sad to say). After the accident I started having panic attcks and the ssri (paxil) was perscribed, and then no one would let me come off it, it was always the wrong time, and when I started feeling bad again whih I now know is tolerance withdrarawl they made me take more, I know it was always my choice no one put these pills down my throat but you take the advice of your doctor. Anyway the point of the story is the accident anniversay has faded, more than I ever hoped so I am sure it will get better for you. x
November 9, 2012 at 7:08 am
I now have just had a massive rush of being absoltley petrified ( i think I am scared I am going to go insane, damn these horrible drugs we took, this is new, great another thing to add, I will pervail!! x
November 9, 2012 at 10:11 am
I had times where I felt like my sanity was in danger, too. The symptoms are so powerful, so deep, that it can feel like you’ll slide the rest of the way down to insanity. Fragile is the way I describe it. Normally, our minds seem so stable, so strong, that we’re immune to losing it. Withdrawal shows how fragile our minds really are, and that’s a hard thing to accept. Now that I’m feel like I’m past that phase, I feel much stronger, but the mindfulness that weakness made me develop has stayed with me. I think I have a good plan to taper off Paxil at this point. I hope that I won’t have to face that mental fracture again. Hopefully, if I do, I’ll be better prepared to deal with it. It’s strange how strength can come out of weakness. You’ll look back on this time as a foundation for strength. Hang in there, determination to get through it is the best way to actually get through it.
November 9, 2012 at 12:52 pm
how long until you are done with your taper? I am going to see my therapist tonight who is great to talk to but she also does hypnotherapy and I am going to ask her to do something for the anxiety especially when I am in enclosed spaces as normally i can handle it but at the moment it is horrible and to help with the early waking, worth a shot!!!! x
November 9, 2012 at 1:50 pm
I’m not certain how long it will take for me to get off Paxil completely. I’m trying to taper when I feel like I’ve consolidated my last taper, so the intervals aren’t fixed. I’m considering making another taper in the near future. I’m at 6.8mg/day right now, so my next drop would be to about 6mg/day. If I continue at my current pace, I should be off Paxil sometime next summer. Who knows what will happen between now and then, though, so I’m trying to keep an open mind and not have any date certain in mind.
I hope hypnosis is helpful for you. I’ve met several people who say that alternative treatments like hypnosis and acupuncture worked well for them. I hope it’s the same for you. I developed some agoraphobia when I was in the middle of withdrawal, too. I think it will pass in time, but if hypnosis helps, it would be great to shorten it.
November 10, 2012 at 8:43 am
so was your withdrarawl so bad that you had to go back on it, that must have been a tough decesion, you seem very wise with your comments and talking to you has helped. This morning I slept in until 6:30 which was a massive treat and after an hour of reading had another sleep until 9am, it was great, but then as this happened it seems like I have a worse day!!!! God it is never ending< i still dont think I am as bad as I have been, but today I have had a real bad what I call heady feeling, some would call in brain fog, to me it feels like I need to take my brain out, scrape the feeling out and put it back i in and everything would be fine, i was then walking round the shop and had 10 minutes of feeling like I was sooooooo low it hurt, when normally that isnt the problem. It is so unfair to feel like this< I hate it!!! Could cry all day, I have bought 2 books to try and encourage me a bit, the anti depressant sloution and youur drug could br your problem. It really helps for me to knoe that other people have this and that there is an end to it!!! x
November 10, 2012 at 9:59 am
My symptoms varied a great deal. At one point, I couldn’t sleep in my bed because I was convinced that the floor underneath it would collapse. After I finished tapering, I was free of the drug effects for two months. It was great. I wasn’t really free of Paxil, but it was a wonderful window of clarity. At the end, I was curled up on the living room floor, again. I felt that my well being was in danger, so I reinstated. I can separate the effects of the drug from withdrawal, now. I could feel the drug wrapping itself around my mind like a snake when I reinstated. I hate taking it, but I can’t afford to slide back into withdrawal like that, so I’m stuck on this slow tapering schedule.
I had never experienced psychosis, irrationality, and the other symptoms before I tried fast tapering off Paxil. It was very scary to lose control like that. I have never had those symptoms before or since. So, I’m determined to stick to the slow tapering schedule, despite the side effects of the drug. I’m debating whether to taper again, now. I’m a bit stuck between the fear of tapering too quickly and stagnating at my current dose too long.
Those first couple nights of better sleep were wonderful. After so many months of a few stolen hours of sleep, getting a full night was a real surprise. Sleeping better was a first step towards normalcy. The symptoms started to break up at that point. Soon, I was able to eat more normally again. I think those two things went a long way towards turning the corner for me.
November 11, 2012 at 12:54 pm
I am really sorry to hear that it was so hard for you, tapering is horrible, but it seems wise, and you clearly understand what is going on in your body and head. I too was fantastic after I came off and then 6 weeks after I had completley stopped bam it hit me. Yesterday I felt so bad for a few hours that I decided to take the online British government depression test to see if I should just resign to the fact that I might have depression not really withdrarawl and I was pleased to see I scored so low it said that I did not have depression and was not likely too, as I said before I never had any form of depression or head messed up until I was on ssris, only anxiety, always in my body never in my head. Anyway, as I said today I kept worrying at what point do I think ok this clearly isnt going anywhere and this is the best I am ever going to be and I just need to get on with life and stop talking about it, I am so worried that I am just manifesting head problems and making it worse. One of my friends who is really supportive did say to me today she just doesnt understand it which made me think maybe there is no withdrarawl, maybe I just make myself ill, but then there are times in the day when I feel perfect, just how I would like to feel forever, so surely if I have those feelings there will come a time when it will be feeling well forever and full time. x
November 11, 2012 at 6:34 pm
I was talking to a friend of mine today about this very thing. One of the things I don’t think I will ever say to someone else is to “Just suck it up and move on” It’s not as simple as deciding to get better from something like withdrawal.
One of the strange elements of withdrawal is the sense that it is a permanent state. I experienced that, too. It really did feel like the symptoms would never improve, that they could only get worse. Withdrawal is the kind of experience where it’s very hard to tell that you’re making progress until after that progress occurs.
Even supportive friends and family don’t seem to understand what it’s like. They mean well, but it’s very hard to express an internal state of mind in a way that’s apparent to onlookers. I’ve talked to people who recovered from withdrawal who seem to have forgotten what it was like. Several people who went through withdrawal think I’m tapering too slowly and should just cold turkey from the 6mg/day that I’m on now. It takes some willpower for me to do this the way I feel is correct. Hang in there, you’re doing the right thing, and it will pay dividends in the future.
November 12, 2012 at 3:52 am
its good to know you have friends who have recovered, I understand when people get better that they leave the site but I sooooo need to read about people who get through this, I know I said that I felt I had had 2 weeks of feeling slightley better, but as those 2 weeks past and you adjust to those ever so slightley better feelings (still feel horrible) that you then start questioning it again and thinking have I actually made that progress as you are already to adjusted to the next stage. All I can think is I was crying lots more 2 weeks ago, I preay for the day that I wake upp and think, today is going to be a good day and then I just get on and have a good day without even thinking about it!!!! Do you really think this is real and we will get better x
November 12, 2012 at 10:01 am
People do recover, even from the worst cases of withdrawal. It is very hard to find their stories. As you say, they either move on or become accustomed to their recovery. They’re not as likely to share their experiences and recovery after it’s done. I cling to the two months of clarity I had while I was off the drug as a marker of how I am without it. We’re much different people without an SSRI. It’s not apparent to other people, or even ourselves, how different we are, but the drugs make profound changes to us. Reversing those changes is wrenching process, but worth it. We’ll get through this, perhaps even come to take our well being for granted someday 🙂
November 12, 2012 at 1:31 pm
there is a really good website I am using over here called recovery-road.org, there are some really good succes stories on there and the woman who does the website had a long prtracted withdrawrawl, I have meditated for 45 mins today and am going to try and do every day for the next weeks and see how i go, still feel rubbish today! tom orrow could be breakthrough x
October 15, 2012 at 7:54 am
also just to point out I have absolutley no underlying emotional problems, nothing that worries me that i need to address, it is just a physical state of emotions, crazey head, sad, crying, frazzled, fog!! x
November 9, 2012 at 7:05 am
Thanks npanth,Your words of encouragement mean more to me than you think,It gives me hope that I never got from anybody because I, like most have tried to hide my illness from the world, the more I open up, the more I find people receptive to what I’m going through.
Hi Emma,I guess from your reply that you were diagnosed with PTSD,the sad thing about this illness is that we have the same systems and more of someone diagnosed with depression,but not once did I ever feel depression,
it was those panic attacks and OCD that comes with PTSD that a lot of Psych’s misdiagnose ,In my case it took almost 3 yrs before I was diagnosed with PTSD only after an attempted suicide did I get the right Diagnoses,and your right about my accident,I backed into a high voltage line when I was a High Tension Lineman,I had an out of body experience,and was thought to be dead ,during the time the high voltage passed through my body I felt nothing,it was when I came to that I realized what happened to me,and it’s been a long terrifying road that only sometimes I catch a break,but finding this forum is a fork in the road that I am glad I took,I see now that I am not alone and I finally have people I can relate to,that know what I’m going through.
Good Health Everyone
Jay Benson Sr.
November 9, 2012 at 10:42 am
I tried to explain what I’d gone through in a couple job interviews. When they asked what I’d been doing since I was laid off, I felt that I should try to tell the truth about it. I soft pedaled the worst of it, but I could see them wilting a little bit. I didn’t get any of those jobs. At this point, I don’t bring it up in job interviews anymore. It was probably a mistake to try to explain it in the first place. I’ve found that I have to pick who I share this with. As much as some people will offer support and understanding, most people are still afraid of withdrawal. It’s a reminder that we’re not as strong or stable as we think we are, that we’re all vulnerable to weakness.
I saw a worker get electrocuted while he was working on a transformer, once. It was a horrible thing to see. I can’t imagine what it would be like to experience it. I’m glad that you’re making progress towards resolving it.
November 12, 2012 at 3:47 am
Jay, yes I ha PTSD, that was from a top psych in OZ. But I believe I was treated in the wrong way, I blame myself too though as I think I wanted a quick fix, I was young and wanted to get back to going out and having fun with friends, if it was these days I would have taken the time to get better naturally. I truly believe we will all get there it is just a daily struggle!!! I remember after the accident when the doctor put me on paxil he said he had a special intrest in anxiety and i could either go to a meditation retreat (that as a traveller I couldnt afford) or I could or I could take this amazing new drug that is perfect for anxiety, PAXIL!! 13 years later I am fighting for my life sometimes to remain off it!!!! We will get better. A really good website is recovery-road.org have a look at it!!! x
November 12, 2012 at 8:51 am
Paxil was the very first drug I was put on,but it wasn’t a psychiatrist who prescribed it.
The Dr. who had treated me after my accident prescribed it,only because I was complaining about PTSD symptoms.
In retrospect ,I now see where all this started,because I only took it for a couple of weeks and stopped because the side affects were to much for me to handle,back when I got hurt,they were just starting to recognize PTSD and it’s symptoms.
They use to call it shell shock .My first Psychiatrist misdiagnosed what was wrong with me,I was depressed he said even though I didn’t feel depressed that’s how I was treated,I walked out out of his office feeling worse than when I went in,he just didn’t get it,and the worse thing he did was to put me in a mental hospital for 2 weeks,where I saw what real mental illness was all about,the whole time I was there people kept telling me ,you don’t seem depressed,because I was joking around and had nothing in common except for the drugs we were taking,I wanted out but the Dr. insisted I stay,so I lied to get out,I tried to commit suicide ended up in the ER,was released because the attending DR. recognize that this was just a cry for help,It was my wife who really got me the help,she was working for an answering service and one of their clients was a Psychiatrist who she was friendly with and started telling him about my problems,he told my wife exactly what my problem was and said he could help,as he just wrote a article on PTSD,I saw him the very next day, and 3 yrs later I was and I mean this cured,my down fall was going back to my job which he recommended I not do,but I had no choice at the time,I had a family to support,and was told by so many that I wouldn’t be able to do anything else because I was to stupid,I was very gullible back then,and the people I worked with were very ignorant and cruel.
Thank you every one who responded to my previous post ,I really appreciate your help,I know and have accepted my fate.
sometimes, I am my own worst enemy, I think I know what I am doing,but I really don’t and it’s forums like this that give me hope,I read about the same situations that I am going through which no longer makes me unique, that I am part of a greater whole that are just trying to come to terms with a problem we were never meant to deal with.
Jay Benson
October 15, 2012 at 2:27 pm
From 7 years of experience on withdrawal forums, I’ve seen very few supplements that seem to help most people. Fish oil, magnesium, whey protein isolate, and vitamin C are standouts, but sometimes people have bad reactions even to them.
The others are all your-mileage-may-vary, and that goes for expensive supplement programs supposed to help withdrawal, too. See info about supplements here http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/606-important-topics-about-tests-supplements-herbs-treatments/
Among alternative treatments, acupuncture seems to be helpful — but you have to make sure your practitioner understands you don’t need stimulating treatments (they give those for “depression”) but very, very gentle calming treatments. Withdrawal-sensitized people do have adverse reactions to acupuncture if it’s too aggressive.
I have never heard of naturopathic treatments such as liver cleansing, heavy metal purging, enemas, or other purifying processes helping anyone with withdrawal symptoms. People either report they did nothing or they were harmful.
From my personal experience and what people report, naturopaths, herbalists, and orthomolecular doctors don’t know any more about withdrawal syndrome than ordinary doctors. The alternative practitioners use their own hammers on the problem, tools developed for entirely different conditions in people whose nervous systems are not hypersensitive. So resort to these at your own risk.
Red flags are if the treatment is supposed to balance neurotransmitters (a fallacy in alternative medicine as well), it’s overpriced, it has secret ingredients, or it was developed to address a condition other than withdrawal syndrome.
October 17, 2012 at 12:12 pm
Hey again 🙂 I’ve been having another symptom – GI problems – since tapering off citalopram and was wondering if anyone else had experienced this. Now that I think about it, these symptoms trace back to when I first began to taper off the SSRI about a year ago. It doesn’t matter what or how fast I eat, I always have bloating and pain at night time and when I wake up. I’ve tried eating very little in the evening and still wake up with pain. It’s actually worse when I eat less because I wake up with that hallow pain feeling. I’ve read online something about SSRI’s and their effect on the gut but those reports are not related to withdrawal. Anyone else have these or similar issues?
October 17, 2012 at 12:33 pm
Gastrointestinal problems are very common during withdrawal from an SSRI. From gas that would make a dog cringe to running to sitting to TMI, it’s a rotten problem. The majority of Serotonin exists in the gut. It’s created there, then migrates to the brain to be used as a neurotransmitter. There are neuron like cells all over the body that use it, too. Some people call it the “belly brain” Those cells aren’t as organized as those in the brain and serve different functions, but the name is appropriate.
It does get better over time. It’s another adjustment that the body has to make once the drug is removed.
October 17, 2012 at 12:45 pm
Wele: I also have severe GI problems with the w/d. The majority of serotonin receptors are in the gut so on withdrawal, my gut is going through the rinse cycle in the washing machine and I feel seasick. That’s what the cliche list of SSRI w/d effects calls “flu-like” symptoms. In other words–you feel sick as a dog.That’s why the w//d is so tough–the extreme anxiety would be bad enough by itself but it combines with flu and brain weirdness. Usually when you have flu, you’re tired and you can sleep. Imagine having the flu and being too wired to lie down–but every move you make walking makes you more seasick.
For nausea, the acupressure wrist bands work pretty good . You can get them at the drug store.
Since its so easy for shrinks to discount subjective mental and emotional effects as the delusions of “those nutty patients”, I like to point out that the GI problems have an objective biochemical explanation due the serotonin receptors in the gut. But I guess docs could regard those GI withdrawal symptoms as the reemergence of a condition known as psychosis of the gut. At this point, to deny the reality of the w/d severity they have to be doing that kind of acrobatics in their “logic.” That’s a thought disorder.
But come to think of it, lots of docs think their patient’s physical symptoms are imagined and they discount those too.
It’s good to be King. And when you try to describe what it’s like, they say, no it’s not like that and they tell you how you feel.
October 17, 2012 at 5:52 pm
Wele,I have the exact problems you describe,I have been diagnosed with IBS,but I didn’t have problems when I was on Luvox, My psych changed my meds to Celexa and that’s when I started to have problems with My stomach and
colon. 3 colonoscopies and 1 endo in the last three yrs have revealed nothing wrong.My GI Dr. and I are on a first names basis.I explained to him about my withdrawal from my meds and he did agree that this is playing a big part in the pain,bloating,diarrhea and constipation that seams to run in cycles.I have been put on anti spasm medication,
mirolax and other meds and none seem to help.I did have a bout with Sigmoid Diverticulitis in which he put me on antibiotics for 3 weeks 2500mgs a day,their just as bad as the psych drugs,I ended up getting c diff and was put on another course of antibiotics,can’t win lol.
To be honest ,if wasn’t for the Gi problems ,I would feel great, because this is the only problem I’m having right now.
October 17, 2012 at 6:00 pm
People with withdrawal problems and intestinal symptoms seem to often do well on non-irritating diets, such as GAPS. See topics on diet at the bottom of this post http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/604-important-topics-about-symptoms-including-sleep-problems/
November 2, 2012 at 2:29 pm
I can relate to that now since I am having the same developments with GI symptoms lately. And they are so severe, I’d say – cruel and excrutiating, that I am not able to even lie down and stay in bed, let alone sleep. I am just in a total crisis. Bloating is so drastic that I feel like I am going to explode, vague pain all over abdominal area and lower back adds on top of this awful feeling. I can’t get any sleep at all, progressively losing weight, literally wasting away. Tried to experiment with food (eliminated almost all possibly offensive ingredients), time of meal – it seems absolutely unrelated. Couple of times was about to go to ER, only out of total desperation, because I know – it’d only produce an additional stress and traumatize me further. It just doesn’t make any sense, unplausible that eating small and innocent meals could produce such an adverse reaction. Any suggestions?
November 2, 2012 at 10:58 pm
I had the same problem for a long time. It’s gotten better, recently. I still have strange digestive problems that pop up from time to time, but it’s not nearly as bad as it was before. I didn’t really find anything that relieved it. I tried to eat innocuous foods and wait for it to get better. It seems like the body needs time to adjust to the new state. It’s really amazing how many systems in the body that are affected by SSRI/SNRI. The best thing I did was cut out overly processed foods… fast food, prepackaged foods, etc. That’s something that I’ve continued since. Now, when I eat fast food it tastes very artificial to me.
November 3, 2012 at 2:07 am
That sounds so horrible Jane. As if withdrawing from the medication isn’t hard enough mentally we have to deal with all of this physical stuff too! I can completely relate to the bloating, it’s just horrible. I recently came across a diet (it may have even been on this forum) that is known to be very healing for the stomach – it’s call the Specific Carbohydrate Diet (SCD). There is also a similar diet out there called GAPS. There is so much research linking diet to psychological wellness. I’ve been preparing for the last week and am aiming to start the diet this coming week. You have to commit to it 100% so I wanted to make sure I had everything I needed at home to avoid cheating. You are generally suggest to do this healing diet for 6 months to a year (even up to 2 years) but some people start to feel better within a few months and are able to slowly introduce certain foods back in their diet. It’s also been extremely healing for people that suffer from IBS and Crohn’s.
http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info/
http://www.gaps.me/
I’ll can let you know how it goes. At this point I’m willing to try anything! From the feedback I’ve heard, I think this just may do the trick!
November 3, 2012 at 2:12 am
yes…I just looked back and Altostrata recommended this diet and also included a link to a post with comments from others that are dealing with similar issues. Good luck Jane!
http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/604-important-topics-about-symptoms-including-sleep-problems/
November 3, 2012 at 1:29 pm
Thank you, Wele. I’ve been on a kind of similar diet for awhile by now, started before withdrawal happened. GI distress is getting totally out of control – every night pain and bloating prevent me for even a short snooze. Last night while the pain was torturing me, I began to think that it might be something more serious that could be overlooked. I’d like to know how you are doing now in terms of this particular problem. I am afraid I couldn’t last long if the symptoms won’t subside.
November 3, 2012 at 1:48 pm
Also, I need to mention that I am loosing weight progressively on top of that I already shed in the very early stage of withdrawal. I got so skinny as never before, just wasting away.
November 3, 2012 at 2:21 pm
Yeah the severe loss of weight is not good. I agree that visiting your doctor would be a good idea if you are loosing that much weight and are still in so much pain. Nutritionists can also be helpful but only after the severe symptoms you are describing have subsided a bit. As for me, I’m feeling good so far. I have my beef broth simmering on my stove as we speak. Good luck and I really hope these horrible symptoms start to go away for you!
November 3, 2012 at 11:39 am
i was on them 3 months and really bad gi problem so much so i had to see a consultant, even when i stopped citalopram the gi continued i have been off them 17 months and just now the discontinuation symptomes have gone and my stomach and bowels are back to normal. They effect people in different ways, i would never go back on them again coming off them was worse than the original problem i had for going on them
November 3, 2012 at 2:48 pm
I lost 80 pounds over my initial withdrawal. It was scary to see it all melting away like that. I think a lot of that weight was drug related, though. SSRI and similar drugs are known to cause dramatic weight gain. I think most of the weight I lost was just my body normalizing again after the drug. I’m not dismissing it, a good chunk of the weight I lost was because I couldn’t eat anything for a long time. It will get better, though. I can even eat hot sausage, now, which is a long way from the handful of crackers I was eating each day last year.
I always wondered why I couldn’t lose weight while I was on Paxil. No matter what diet or exercise regimen I tried, I still gained weight. I haven’t started gaining the weight back since I resumed a normal diet, so I think it must be related to the drug. The GI problems are very hard to deal with because they affect so many other aspects of your life. It should eventually get better. At this point, I just have gas and relatively minor digestive problems. It doesn’t prevent me from eating particular foods, though, so that’s a big improvement. I hope it goes away for you soon, it was a rotten feeling.
November 3, 2012 at 7:55 pm
It’s not my case though, I didn’t gain any weight while on Cymbalta – it had been stable through the whole period. But once I started to withdraw, I lost a chunk of it immediately, then it kind of leveled out for a 6-7 ms, and last 3 weeks are marked of a very dramatic and rapid weight loss (I didn’t have any extra weight anyway, quite the opposite), GI symptoms are gaining more and more ground, first it was happening at night only, now pain persists non-stop, therefore I can’t sleep at all, it interferes with a whole body functioning. I am loosing weight despite eating regularly (I force myself to eat because how I look now gets very frightening). I was thinking to get a GE specialist evaluation but they wouldn’t be able to say anything without a colonoscopy, and I am in a such a fragile and weak state now that I can’t go through the procedure. I need to find something for at least a temporary pain relief but so far I responded to the drugs I’ve tried with an adverse reaction, so I am very cautious about taking them.
October 18, 2012 at 6:26 am
Hi, I came across this site yesterday and have found it so helpful. 4 years ago I suffered 2 major panic attacks in the space of 3 days and ended up in hospital both times. I ended up taking 5 weeks off work and became obsessed with my breathing, I was consciously breathing all day, I tried everything from Hypnotherapy to CBT but nothing worked, my doctor then suggested Effexor which is an SNRI, I didn’t know anything about this med at the time only that it would help me and it did, I was on 75mg each day. It got me out of the whole obsessional thinking and worked well apart from being a bit tired at times, I went down to 37.5mg after 2 years and then started weaning down further at the beginning of this year as I am 36 and want to start a family. In August I was down to 37.5mg every 4 days, I wasn’t feeling great and decided to go to a herbalist who gave me a tonic which included St John’s worth and she said it would be ok to take as I was on such a low dose of the Effexor, I started taking it alongside my effexor and 2 days later started crying really badly over nothing. I decided to stop the Effexor and just keep on the tonic but the crying became really bad, this lasted for nearly 4 weeks until I decided to stop the tonic altogether so was on nothing but fell into such depression I had never had before, a horrible low feeling, getting joy out of nothing, the crying had stopped but I felt so off, everything was an effort, the morning time was the worst, such feeling of hopelessness, feeling of how am I going to get through another day feeling like this. I kept trying to think had I felt like this before taking the tablets but I only took them because of anxiety and not depression and now I was depressed. I felt like this for 8 weeks and started feeling also detached from reality so I went back to the doctor and she put me on 10mg of Lexapro, I have heard that sometimes you need to go on an SSRI to help wean off an SNRI. I am taking these for 2 weeks but am still feeling low and I suppose its the feeling of defeat as well and guilt incase I do get pregnant and I am not med free. The only thing I can do is keep on the tablets until I start feeling better and do a better weaning program this time around.
October 18, 2012 at 9:55 am
Some supplements can make withdrawal symptoms more intense. St John’s Wort has a similar mechanism to an SSRI. It can help withdrawal for some people, but not others. It’s usually best to taper off of the original drug that you were taking. Many doctors switch their patients to new drugs during withdrawal, though, so you are not alone at all. Lexapro has a similar effect as St John’s Wort, but is more powerful. The addition of an SSRI to SNRI withdrawal is a complicating factor. The start up effect of the SSRI are combining with the withdrawal effects from Effexor (maybe a bit from the supplement, too)
I think that the people at http://www.paxilprogress.org/ and http://survivingantidepressants.org/ may be able to advise you on how to proceed better than I can.
The best choices are:
1 stick out the withdrawal effects of Effexor until you become stable enough to taper off of Lexapro.
2 You could quick taper off of Lexapro since you’ve only been on it for two weeks. Reinstate Effexor at your last dose and do a slow taper from there.
I lean more towards the second choice, but that could be difficult in the short term. The people at the two sites I linked would know better. Many people there have gone through med switching and tapering.
The feelings of hopelessness and depression that are more intense in the mornings are very consistent with withdrawal symptoms. Hang in there, it may take a while to get to a point where you can start tapering again, but it will get better.
October 18, 2012 at 10:37 am
Thanks so much for the reply, I suppose the main reason for me going of Effexor is that I have heard that its not safe in pregnancy and that Lexapro is safer, hence the reason for going on this one. I was on a really low dose of Effexor and the withdrawal is so bad, its hard to imagine how it is for people that are on higher doses. I think I might just stick with the Lexapro for the moment and see if I can taper off that once I feel better, its funny because I have always told people that I had never been depressed before, anxious yes but not depressed until now, its a horrible feeling.
October 18, 2012 at 1:18 pm
All of the SSRIs and SNRIs carry risks to the neonate. Some have been studied more than others. What you’ve heard about Lexapro is untrue.
October 18, 2012 at 3:46 pm
Altostrata beat me to that point 😉 Yes, SSRI/SNRI all have risks associated with pregnancy. There may be variations in the percentage of risk, but there isn’t currently a safe SSRI/SNRI to take during pregnancy. I would stay away from the supplements that act in similar ways, too, just to be safe.
One of the things that is missing from the literature and medical advice is the length of time it takes to taper off these drugs in a way that minimizes symptoms. It’s much slower than they advise. Some people, perhaps a majority, can taper off the drugs quickly, but a significant percentage require very slow tapering schedules. I’m sorry to bring up a negative point, I understand the desire that becomes urgency that having a child entails. You want it to go as perfectly as possible, though, and that means attending to yourself first.
New depression while tapering off an SSRI/SNRI is very common. I had mild depression that came from social anxiety. Social interactions made me nervous, which made me anxious, which sometimes led to depression. When I started tapering off Paxil, though, the depression became acute. It was an episodic thing, though. As I stabilized on a slow tapering schedule, that aspect of withdrawal faded away. In fact, while I was taking Paxil, I got very depressed on a regular basis, every 4-6 weeks. That steady depression, that I thought was being held in check by Paxil, faded away as well. Turns out, Paxil was causing me more problems that it was solving. If it was an existing condition, that depression would have gotten worse as I lowered my dose, not better. The depression in withdrawal is a feeling of hopelessness and impotence. It is a rotten feeling. It does get better, though. Hang in there.
November 2, 2012 at 4:37 am
I started taking for panic attacks 15 years ago, and now 15 years later I am 7 months off everything and still in withdrarawl, but 7 months clean the anxiety and panic has not come back, everything else is bad, brain fog, depressed, frazzled, but no panic attacks. I too want to get pregnant as i am 36 and time not really on my side, but i just cant go for it until I feel the withdrarawl is gone or at least on its way to going forever. My point was I never ever ever have depression until I started taking anti depressants, it was when i had tolerance withdrarawl that i experienced depression for the first time and i would not wish it on anyone!!!! damn these horrible horrible drugs!!! we will get through and have lots of beautiful babaies x
November 10, 2012 at 2:19 pm
Sinead, I’m certainly not advocating it, but I will say that I went through two pregnancies on a low dose of Zoloft, and I can’t find anything “wrong” with my 4 and 6 yr old that someone could link back to SSRI use. I think at the time (2006 and 2008) the thinking was that its worth for a mother to be depressed than it is to expose the baby to a little bit of the drug. If you can find a way around it (slow tapering and then work on your family), do it, but if you have to be on a SSRI while you’re pregnant, don’t be too hard on yourself. It was worth my sanity. And helped me cope with postpartum depression in one pregnancy.
October 19, 2012 at 6:53 am
Thanks Altostrata and npanth, its tough alright to know what to do, if I wasn’t looking to get pregnant I would start up the Effexor again and taper very slowly, the Lexapro doesn’t seem to be doing much expect making me tired. I think I will just wean off that and keep going with nothing and hope my brain will return back to normal on its own.
October 19, 2012 at 10:18 am
I think that the amount of time it takes for symptoms to resolve themselves is the same whether you fast taper or slow taper. The difference is in the severity of symptoms. Quitting cold turkey or fast tapering is a shock to the system. After adjusting itself to the drug slowly, the brain is suddenly left without the chemical state it has grown used to. It takes time for it to adjust back to a drug free state. That adjustment seems to happen at a relatively static rate. I understand your reluctance to reinstate. Believe me, I hate, hate, hate being on Paxil. I can feel it perched on my brain like a spider web, slowing down my thought, muffling my creativity. Reinstating is a compromise and a means to recovery, not an abdication. The time it takes to recover isn’t as long as the original treatment, it won’t be years.
I understand your reluctance to postpone getting on with your life, I had the same feeling. I still have it. It’s frustrating. It’s something that each person has to come to understand themselves. Like many other people, I resisted it at first. I’m not berating you, not at all. I guess I’m trying to give you some information that you can bank away for later. If you do find that the symptoms are escalating past the level that you thought they would, and you start to consider reinstating, don’t feel bad about, or think of it as a personal failure. It isn’t.
October 19, 2012 at 12:03 pm
Excellent observations as usual, npanth.
I would quibble with your statement “the amount of time it takes for symptoms to resolve themselves is the same whether you fast taper or slow taper.” You should taper at a rate that does not destabilize your nervous system. Withdrawal symptoms indicate destabilization. Once destabilization gets going, all bets are off for time to recovery. It could be sooner or later, depending on the amount of the disruption and how your nervous system repairs itself.
A slow taper is less likely to set off serious nervous system destabilization.
However, there are people, a small number at the very right end of the bell curve, who have a difficult time getting off these drugs no matter how slowly they taper.
October 19, 2012 at 1:46 pm
Good point. I’ve been developing the idea that the brain adjusts to the lack of SSRI at a constant rate, similar in speed to the slow taper method. It’s still an hypothesis, so subject to refinement. I’ll try to incorporate the stability idea.
October 19, 2012 at 2:02 pm
The way I look at it, you sneak off the drug at a rate the nervous system doesn’t notice. You know you’re getting away with it when it doesn’t complain with withdrawal symptoms. The nervous system adjusts in a way that’s imperceptible to itself — very gradually, almost at the rate of normal homeostasis. This tolerance for change is individual.
October 22, 2012 at 7:06 am
fantastic blog. many thanks. has helped greatly with my own cymbalta withdrawal that I am grappling with right now. some comments have also enlightened me to behaviours during supposed “treatment” (eg caffiene abuse). I cannot wait to rid my body of this crap a doctor pushed on me and give my liver a break. if i would have known what i know now… same story as everyone here. i am likening the experience to a massive comedown which was definitely not worth the party or the money this time. for my fellow travellers who have no experience of a recreational drug come down – now you can say you know what it feels like!
October 22, 2012 at 8:07 am
I think that our attitude towards SSRI would be much different if they had an overt narcotic effect. They have the same capacity to disrupt life and cognition as drugs that society reviles.
The secondary behaviors that SSRI promote really caught me by surprise. I really had a caffeine habit going. Liter after liter of Diet Coke. It’s strange how it matches up with my Paxil dose. I was out of control when I was taking 40mg/day. It dwindled down to nothing when I got off. When I reinstated at 10mg/day, it reappeared, but not as bad as before. Now that I’m slowly tapering, it’s slowly going away again. I can use will power to control it, but I just get more and more miserable until I give in. I’m just glad it’s Diet soda and not whiskey or crack.
October 23, 2012 at 9:10 pm
Well, I haven’t posted in a awhile and I would like to say things are going good but,I was in so much pain over the weekend that I ended up going into the hospital for a c scan,I thought I had another kidney stone,I saw my Urologist the next day and everything was fine,So I called my G.I. Dr and I am scheduled for a colon/endoscopy next week. I know he’s probably going to find the same thing he has the last 3 times,diverticulitis and some inflammation of the stomach lining.
I guess I’m not as tough as I though I was,I have decided to take 12mgs of luvox to see if this will ease up on the pain I am experiencing with my G.I. tract,I hate doing it ,but the Psychologist I’m seeing told me to stop taking it because I was only taking 25mg and he said it was doing absolutely nothing,apparently he was wrong because my mild systems went full blown
a month after I stopped,of course this is in lieu of me taking 10 mg of Prozac that started panic central and had to stop.
I can’t describe some of the sensations that I have been going through with this sudden withdrawal,which by the way was his idea.
I thought I could handle this with out going back on SSRI’s and I probably could have if the taper was a lot more gradual and what was I thinking when I said ok to just stop taking the luvox,I new better,I new I needed more time,but the Prozac was supposed to take it’s place,now he tells me that I am so sensitive to the SSRI’s that I can not go back on them again,which is fine by me,but he didn’t think about the withdrawal problems ,because he doesn’t believe in them.
Needless to say he is gone and I am looking for another Psych to help me get off this crap for good,but it has to be done the right way,I see now that I am going to need a long taper and I am good with that,I just know that this time it’s going to work,30+ years of psych drugs is not going to be an easy thing,I wish it was but it’s just not going to happen.
Time heals and I’ve got plenty of that,I hope.
Hope everybody is doing better than I am.
Peace
October 23, 2012 at 11:01 pm
I’ve read several stories of people who have been med swapped by their doctors and experienced bad side effects. I think the doctors will eventually understand that these meds aren’t as interchangeable as they think. I hope you get stable at your new dose quickly, I hated that unstable, fragile feeling in withdrawal. It took me a while to get stable, but withdrawal got much easier once I was able to control the tapering speed better. Good luck finding a new doctor. I hope you find someone who works for you. It’s tough hearing advice you intuitively know won’t work for you..
October 24, 2012 at 1:59 pm
Thanks npath,I was talking to my Gi Dr this morning ,and he of all people believes that what I am going through is definitely SSRI withdrawal,we discussed my diverticulitis and the pain that I am experiencing is different .
It just seems to be the same place with a little stomach issues to mix things up.
But your right about finding a psych who will work with you,They don’t like to be told what YOU want,their the expert.
I’m not going to have the colon/endo because I’ve had so many in the last 3 yrs,also he said I’ve had to many cat scans and xrays.I’ve been radiated to much and he is concerned,so as a last resort I am going to have an MRI
and we will take it from there.
Thanks again.
Jay Benson Sr.
October 24, 2012 at 2:20 pm
We are seeing people with withdrawal syndrome and gut issues having success with non-irritating diets such as GAPS http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/890-scdgapspaleo-diets/
November 2, 2012 at 4:14 am
i was med swapped 3 times to come off paxil, prozac than effexor, didnt help at all, ,the taper was worse than anything, but as bad as it is and as rotten as i feel now you do get through the ta[er period alive x
October 23, 2012 at 11:19 pm
I don’t believe in any possible improvement any more. I am getting worse and worse. There is nothing for even a temporary relief. It’s absolutely unrealistically unbearable and dreadful. I have such a malicious insomnia. If I try any sleeping pill it either doesn’t work or causes so severe depression next day that I am scared to come even close to that. But otherwise I don’t sleep at all and get psychotic. Anxiety is so severe that I have difficulty swallowing. I am considering to try medical marijuana. That would be the last resort. But I don’t know how to get a non-smoking kind. Any suggestions?
October 24, 2012 at 8:05 am
I spent several months in the same spot. I only slept for an hour or two each night. Every couple days I would fall asleep in the middle of the day from sheer exhaustion, but would only get 3-4 hours of sleep. The days were filled with despair, anger, and anxiety. It did start to break up and improve. I know it’s hard for the intellect to influence the power of these symptoms, but try to remember that it is a phase. It will pass, eventually. It’s not the chronic, long term problem that it feels like right now. How can symptoms as profound as this be anything but permanent? They’re not, though.
I’m not sure about medical Marijuana. It may help. As strange as it sounds, compared to the alternatives that you would get from your doctor, pot may be the most benign thing to try. I know that some companies make it in pill and food form. I saw that on a documentary about California’s system, though. I think that it would vary greatly depending on the local state’s laws and their relationship with the Federal system. http://www.norml.org would be a good place to find out more about how Federal and state laws interact on the subject in your state.
October 24, 2012 at 5:31 pm
Thank you, npanth for your supporting words and the link. I am going to try it. 3-4 hours of sleep sounds as a luxury for me. Some nights (like last one) I don’t fall asleep at all, not even for a single minute. At day time a nap would last 20 minutes at most. I am on the way of loosing my sanity. I undestand and appreciate your attitude for a positive outcome but, just to clarify, according to your history notes, you’ve reinstated the drug in a couple of months, so your turn to the better should be attributed to a timely resume of the pill (though very reluctant). How can you be sure that the phase of a terrible insomnia (only one out of many manifestations of the process spiraling down) will pass? At this point all the signs indicate the opposite. And the developments are so different for each individual. Thank you.
October 24, 2012 at 10:59 pm
One of the problems with sleep is perception. It felt very much like I wasn’t sleeping at all, but eventually I realized that I didn’t recognize that I was sleeping. It wasn’t restorative sleep, anyway. Sleep does slowly return to a more normal schedule. It can take some time, but it does happen. Even without reinstating, you should start to sleep more. When is a hard thing to answer. As you said, it varies from person to person. It’s important to realize that the permanence that the symptoms have right now is perception, too. It feels like they will never get better, but they do eventually start to improve. It just seems permanent because you haven’t seen much improvement, yet. Once the symptoms start to break up and move into wave/window cycles, it will get easier to recognize progress. Hang on until then. It will get better.
October 24, 2012 at 8:58 pm
Altostrata,
I appreciate the link and info.
Before I had my accident I only weighed 225,I use to pump iron with a very close set of friends and I was benching 510lbs
I could work out with 300lb sets and taper down to 200 to cool down, I was in really great shape,after my accident I gained
75lbs in less than a year,convinced I was going to die,I ate for comfort and stopped working out, before all was said and done I was up to 375lbs I could not believe I let my self go that far,but then again I was misdiagnosed and didn’t get the proper help ,after starting therapy it was almost impossible to lose weight,it seem the harder I worked out the more I gained.
everything these drugs said would happen,like weight loss and all the other BS did not happen to me,you see I am that person that fall into that 2% group that has the most weird side effects,I am so sensitive to drugs of any kind that I have to be very careful,I can take a drug once with no problems and then the next time I have a severe reaction to it.
I was hospitalized 15 yrs ago for a kidney stone,the pain was so bad that they gave me morphine,well I had morphine for my very first stone at the age of 23,so much that the doctor told me that I had enough in me to kill a horse,believe it or not I was still in a lot of pain,but could not have any more injections,the Doctor told my new wife that I was a wuss,that was until they had to cut me open to get it out,it was the size of a half dollar and when I was coherent enough he apologized to me.
My next stone was a few yrs later,standard procedure was to administer morphine,well guess what ? I almost died that night,
I went into shock and stopped breathing,they had a hell of time getting me stable.
What I’m getting at is what works for some people doesn’t always work for others ,because I had all that power surge through my body I have 2 strikes against me,I have tried all the above mentioned diets,including gluten free and lactose free and everything in between,I have lost over 40lbs in just the last month alone,only because I am not eating,I go for days on water and juice and then introduce solids,I know I am hurting my self,but this keeps the pain to a minimum .
I take supplements and eat fish and chicken when I feel I can handle it.
Right now this seems to help and occasional piece of fruit thrown in for ruff-age and good old mirolax to help with constipation,until I get a handle on what I can eat and what I can’t, this is all I can do for now,I keep a log of every day events and what made me feel good or bad,so I can reference patterns that I can avoid and not just food but the days events also they all play a part in what I call Food and Mood,sorry to bore you with this,all I really wanted to do was say thanks.
October 24, 2012 at 11:07 pm
That sounds like a kidney boulder, not a stone. Wow, I can’t imagine. I think I have some idea of what you’re saying about being overly sensitive to drugs after initial treatment. When I reinstated Paxil, I was expecting my symptoms to go away. Instead, there seemed to be a Garden of Eden effect where the second treatment wasn’t nearly as effective as the first. It’s not the same, though. Even though it felt like it was life threatening, I wasn’t in mortal physical danger from withdrawal. Like you said, one step at a time is the best way to get through it.
October 25, 2012 at 7:17 am
patd
i was on citalopram for 3 months, came off cold turkey and still 16months on still suffering withdrawal sydrome, although less intense and not as severe, my brain is still trying to repair itself. Would appreciate any feed back on similar situations.
October 25, 2012 at 9:01 am
A couple other people here have had very similar experiences with Celexa (short use, long withdrawal). I’m beginning to wonder if Celexa has a more pronounced effect on some people. For some SSRI users, even short term use can lead to extended symptoms. Other people can take this class of drugs for years and stop without serious consequences. There is probably a biological/psychological explanation for this disparity that hasn’t been identified, yet.
One of the hardest steps in recovery is recognizing progress. At first, the symptoms seem uniform and severe. Eventually, that non stop wave starts to break up. The next stage is the wave/window cycle where symptoms wax and wane. Waves may be lengthy and windows short, but that balance eventually reverses itself. The windows become longer and the waves shorter. One of the signs that you’re getting better is that you start to see that pattern. Try to pay attention to how you feel, how severe the symptoms are. The pattern will eventually become clearer. It’s almost like the feeling you get when you’re getting the flu. You can feel the symptoms coming on as you start to get sick. Eventually, waves begin to take on this pattern We’re sensitive to the pattern of physical wellness and illness because we’ve experienced it our whole lives. It takes some time to get used to it in withdrawal. After a while, you’ll feel waves coming on, but they dissipate before they become full blown waves. That’s the best. It’s like that feeling of getting a cold that never becomes a full blown illness.
Take solace in the progress you’ve made so far. Even if it seems like it’s not very much, it snowballs into better and better progress over time.
October 30, 2012 at 5:42 am
Hi npanth- how long did it take you to stabilize once you went back on the Paxil at 10mg after being off them for 2 months?
October 30, 2012 at 9:10 am
I reinstated in January, 2012 at 10mg/day. Stabilization happened in stages. The really bad, overt symptoms went away within two weeks. A month later, I was feeling ok, a little fragile, but ok. I had a job interview in February and had a bad anxiety reaction. I slurred my words and had fine motor control problems for two weeks. My friends thought I’d had a stroke. In May, I had a very stressful, 5 part, 6 hour, interview. I came through it without any symptoms. Since then, I’ve been getting better and better. I’d say I have a normal reaction to stress and emotions, now. The difference is that I’m much more aware of the foundations of that stress and those emotions. When a thought comes to the surface, instead of mindlessly suppressing it or letting it run wild, like I would have years ago, I can identify the cause, remember the effect it used to have on me, and file it. I’m much more mindful of stressors and my reactions to them, now. I’d say I’m a better person than I was while taking Paxil. I’m really looking forward to getting off this stuff and seeing my real potential.
Reinstatement is an up and down road. It’s important to reduce stress as much as you can, but still test your reaction to stress in small ways. I felt fragile, but I over estimated my resiliency for several months. I kept walking into situations that triggered anxiety reactions. I’d never had severe anxiety before I started tapering off Paxil, so I ascribe those reactions to withdrawal. I can’t really put a timeline on reinstatement because it happens differently for everyone. It’s not a cure for withdrawal, but a method for reducing symptoms while tapering.
October 30, 2012 at 10:34 am
Thanks for the reply, I am 4 weeks into reinstating Lexapro at 10mg, I was on Effexor 37.5mg and off the meds for 2 months before I went back on Lexapro, I feel ok but still low at times, I am hoping to stabilize soon so I can start reducing very slowly, I don’t want to go through the withdrawal I did with Effexor.
October 30, 2012 at 4:59 pm
Go slow and make sure that you take a consistent dose every day until you feel stable. Stability is a fragile thing. It can seem like you’re stronger than you really are at first. After so long with bad symptoms, even small improvements feel like a lot. Take care to minimize stress as much as you can, but test it in little ways. It’s natural to over reach when you’re testing your stress resiliency. Don’t feel bad if you go backwards at times, it happens to a lot of people. It takes a while to start to see improvement. Most doctors will ascribe that improvement to taking the drugs again. Perhaps in some cases that’s true. In my case, my symptoms would have returned as I started tapering again. Instead, I’ve been steadily improving since then, so I can’t say that Paxil helps me. In fact, many of the problems I had while taking Paxil have fallen away as my dose has gone down. It’s obvious to me now that Paxil was causing more problems than it was solving. Reinstating reinforced that belief for me. When I started taking Paxil again, I could feel the blanket descending over my mind, feel the newly found freedom slipping away again. I had to reinstate, though. The symptoms were too intense. I’ve had to tell myself many times that I need to be patient. The creative, friendly, caring person I am off the drug is still there. It’s slowly emerging again as my dose gets lower and lower. I can’t speed up the process, the risks of renewed withdrawal is too great. Perhaps I’m going too slowly at times, but I’m determined to do my taper right this time.
November 3, 2012 at 10:21 pm
Thanks so much for this article. I’m tapering off Citalopram and am having horrible discontinuation symptoms. The most intense part is the rage that happens at unpredictable times. I have a 4 and a 6 year old and I worry about emotionally abusing them during this time when I can’t regulate my emotions. I was down to 5 mg every other day and finally went off it completely early this week and I’ve been progressively more rageful each day, not to mention constant brain zaps. I’m a mess, emotionally. I finally took 5 mg again today because I couldn’t stand it anymore and my husband is traveling so I’m with the kids full time, alone. It’s comforting to find a web site like this where other people understand what I’m going through. Neither my husband or any of my friends has ever experienced anything similar. Increases my feelings of isolation.
Any advice on getting through the last little bit? Brain zaps and emotional roller coaster (crazy anger) are the worst.
Thanks!
Sarah
November 4, 2012 at 10:56 am
I wrote about anger during withdrawal here: https://npanth.wordpress.com/2012/07/02/dealing-with-anger-during-ssri-withdrawal/
Anger is a tough symptom to deal with. It’s the one that people are most likely to translate into action against others. It causes broken bridges, puts strain on relationships, all kinds of problems. The best way to deal with it is to recognize that it’s being caused by withdrawal, not a character flaw. It takes a lot of effort to push that anger aside, it can really be overwhelming. It does go away, though. It’s a temporary problem. It’s also important to not dwell on any mistakes you make while you’re in this phase. Regret is another powerful emotion that gets amplified in withdrawal. Don’t beat yourself up about slips, it’s very common. Just do your best to minimize how you react to anger while you’re in this vulnerable place. I hope it goes away soon. Anger was the scariest phase for me.
December 10, 2012 at 8:25 pm
Very nice analogy Jay.
I backed my brain data up to the “cloud” but I seem to have forgotten the damn password again!! LOL!!!
November 9, 2012 at 1:28 pm
Again, I urge those of you who suffer from prolonged withdrawal syndrome to register on http://survivingantidepressants.org and add your case history to the Introductions forum at http://tinyurl.com/3o4k3j5
One of the purposes of the site is to document cases to educate doctors.
(Apologies for breaking in again on the fine job you’re doing of answering questions and providing support, npanth.)
November 9, 2012 at 1:52 pm
I don’t mind at all. The support I can give is limited to my personal experience, research and reasoning. By it’s nature, that is a limited perspective, so having other sources of reliable information is very valuable to me. Thanks for the links.
November 11, 2012 at 12:58 pm
altostrata is there a success stories link on there, I so want to hear about people who have got through it! x
November 11, 2012 at 2:39 pm
yes, we have a few success stories http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/forum/28-recovery-success-stories/
Keep in mind it’s hard to get success stories. People start to feel well, they move on — and they don’t come back to the site to tell us they’re fine.
November 12, 2012 at 4:38 am
altpstrata I have read your profile on your blog, are you recovered or even closer to recovery? x
November 12, 2012 at 11:48 am
Thanks, emma. Yes, I’m much, much better, pretty close to recovery. Let me say I went off Paxil over 3 weeks — that was much too fast for me. My doctors from UCSF had no clue about reinstating. So I was pretty much screwed by bad information.
November 12, 2012 at 1:42 pm
ahhahh thats good to hear, I am 14 months of paxil but only 7.5 months off all ssris, was switched to prozac and then effexor so I assume it is a combination of the lot that is giving me this awful withdrarawl, doesnt matter what name it has they all did the same thing, messed up my neurons and i understand they are reapairing x
November 11, 2012 at 7:09 pm
As you may or may not know,I started a small dose of Luvox ( 12mgs ) three weeks ago because I was having such a bad time with my GI tract.Well the symptoms are starting to reside,but for every action there is a reaction,Now I am back to where I left off with the side effects,Dizziness,Anxiety,Ocd and all the other great things this drug causes,I didn’t think that such a low dose would bring on such intense symptoms,my plan was to start low and tapper off slow,because my former
shrink told me to quit taking the 25 mgs a day I was taking, because it was doing absolutely nothing for me Ha,I guess it was because all my severe GI problems started not long after I stopped.Now I have brain fog and I am extremely off balance,I feel that I can not control my body,I make a move to do something and my body gets confused,I had my legs buckle yesterday and It scared the crap out of me,if I even look to either side of the room with out moving my head it causes dizziness,I have an appointment with my EN&T Dr tomorrow and I know he’s not going to find anything wrong.
My GI DR feels so guilty because he cant help me, that he suggested I go get a second opinion.With all the test and
and finding nothing wrong,I told him no way.
The fact that the Luvox has eased up my GI problems is proof enough for me that he has done everything right.
It’s my last Psych who told me to quit cold turkey and then called me confrontational threw his hands up in the air and told me there was nothing more he could do for me, that I need to talk to a psychologist,Hello your a psychiatrist this is what you went to school for,being confrontational is part of the illness,especially when your advice is not helping and your drug swapping is making me suicidal,I was doing great except for the GI problems,now I am back to square one again,
I hate taking 2 steps forward and 3 back.I wish we all new what these drugs were doing to us before hand,because I for one would have never Taken them, All I needed was an education as to what was going on inside me,ignorance on my part,and someone to reassure me that what was going on was not just in my head, but it was also physical,a chemical imbalance that if I had the proper treatment in the first place,I would have had a better chance at never taking a psych drug to begin with ,I have just set my self back x amount of time just to prove a theory.
Sorry for the rant,I’m having an out of century experience.
Jay
November 11, 2012 at 9:36 pm
i feel realy sory for you.but believe me i can realy understand what you are going though now.2 months back i was exactly where you are right now.but i can assure you it will get better but its a very slow process.you have to accept this fact as soon as you can.there are certain thing which can realy help you because that helped me .if u wana know i can tell u
November 12, 2012 at 1:07 am
No problem, rant away. These drugs can be incredibly frustrating. That frustration is compounded by the glib way some doctors treat them. My doctor gave me a very fast tapering schedule to get off Paxil, and threw a handful of pills at me when I started having trouble doing it. He greatly damaged my confidence in him in that whole episode.
November 11, 2012 at 10:27 pm
Thank you shriaj1,I can use all the help I can get.
I have been fighting this Illness on and off for 30 + years and the last 12 yrs has been an up hill battle with some wins
but to many setbacks,I have been through a lot of psychiatrists over the years,some have helped and others have set me back,the last one I had has put me in the worst situation with no one to help me and me looking for a Psychiatrist that is
willing to help me get off this night mare called withdrawal,they all say you will never get off the drug,so you might as well
keep taking it, not gonna happen,one way or another I am determined to beat this once and for all.
November 13, 2012 at 8:56 pm
Went through the posts and believe me feeling much better now. Reading this page can be included as a part of ” coping with ssri withdrawl” therepy.:)
My story: have been on SSRI citslopramine 60mg for 4 years and then 20 mg for next 6. I was prescribed the drug for OCD mix, but now i think it was mainly depression with frequently changing theme.
Last year I played around with dosages and made it Irregular, 20 mg twice a week (any two days). The idea was to discontinue the drug and thought making it irregular would help ( brain is getting an hint).
6 months back I left the drug. Started on music and sport in a big way. Physically I dont think withdrawl has bothered me much. But now for last 4 months i have become extremely tearful. I dont think i cried ever for last 20 years. Even when I was diaglozed with OCD mix i didnt cry. Now seeing a wedding in a movie makes me cry? It is still under control though as i usually collect myself and start a different activity when it happens.
The question is; is it ssri withdrawl? How pong will it last?
November 13, 2012 at 9:47 pm
Dreamer,I am man enough to admit that I do the same thing,I was watching a show the other night with my wife and the ending was so sad,I just burst out crying and my wife was taken aback,she said to me you never cry whats wrong?
I said it;s the withdrawal that’s causing it and to tell you the truth I felt better afterwards,I think it;s just part of the healing
process and a good cry is a great way to relieve stress.
As far as how long will it take,everybody is different and depending on your mind set,really know one can tell you exactly how long,it takes time and when it happens you will think wow,I actually feel good for a change.
Like people here have told me and countless others,hang in there it will happen.
Jay Benson
November 13, 2012 at 10:52 pm
Thanks Jay.
November 14, 2012 at 12:09 am
It’s possible that it’s part of withdrawal for two reasons. Many people go for long periods without feeling overt symptoms, then experience symptoms after a few months off the drug. Also, SSRI suppress most emotions along with a range of mental processes. As the brain adjusts back to a drug free state, emotions will become more pronounced. Which emotions become dominant can vary. Anger, depression, mania, empathy. Sometimes, it’s more than one at a time.
It’s hard to say how long your symptoms will last. Many times, emotional symptoms come on suddenly, and return to normal just as quickly. It can be situational, too. Symptoms can occur with or without a trigger. Recovery seems to follow a crooked path before it settles down. You may go through a period where you feel emotions more strongly, then a numb period. After alternating for a while, it should settle down into a more normal level.
I had a similar experience. I didn’t really have emotions to speak of for most of the time I was on Paxil. Then I went through a period were my emotional responses varied greatly. That has settled down to normal, now. Patience is the hardest but best way to get through it. I’m sorry I don’t have a definitive answer. SSRI withdrawal is still poorly studied, so there are a lot of “should”, “most”, “may” when it comes to withdrawal symptoms.
November 14, 2012 at 10:27 am
Thanks Npath for helpful piece of info
November 13, 2012 at 9:00 pm
Went through the posts and believe me feeling much better now. Reading this page can be included as a part of ” coping with ssri withdrawl” therepy.:)
My story: have been on SSRI citslopramine 60mg for 4 years and then 20 mg for next 6. I was prescribed the drug for OCD mix, but now i think it was mainly depression with frequently changing theme.
Last year I played around with dosages and made it Irregular, 20 mg twice a week (any two days). The idea was to discontinue the drug and thought making it irregular would help ( brain is getting an hint).
6 months back I left the drug. Started on music and sport in a big way. Physically I dont think withdrawl has bothered me much. But now for last 4 months i have become extremely tearful. I dont think i cried ever for last 20 years. Even The symptom for which i took at the first place ssri didnt involve crying at all. Now seeing a wedding in a movie makes me cry? It is still under control though as i usually collect myself and start a different activity when it happens.
The question is; is it ssri withdrawl? How long will it last?
November 15, 2012 at 6:29 pm
Hi, I am just wondering what your sources are for this information. They sound about right to me, but I am not one to read something on the internet and just believe it’s accurate without there being any sources. Where can I find further information that would confirm that all you say is accurate?
No intentions to offend!
Thanks.
November 15, 2012 at 11:39 pm
I’m not offended at all. There is a lot of conflicting information about SSRI withdrawal out there. That was one of the reasons I decided to start writing about it. There isn’t much consolidated information about withdrawal. Since withdrawal isn’t officially acknowledged by the pharmaceutical companies and doctors, there haven’t been many studies or literature about the phenomenon. As a result, I’ve had to gather information from a variety of sources. Some of it is from my own experience, some from anecdotal conversations with other patients, some from message boards like http://www.paxilprogress.org/ and http://survivingantidepressants.org/ Other sources include https://www.rxisk.org/ and news articles like http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/13/us-usa-health-anxiety-idUSBRE86C07820120713
The information here is a conglomeration of many sources. It hasn’t been proven in double blind studies. I don’t have any medical information to back up what I say. That’s a shortcoming to what I write, but it’s all we have at this point. Until withdrawal is acknowledged and studied in a scientific way, patients have to rely on anecdotal and communal information. It’s imperfect, but so are the drugs and the method of prescribing them.
The best way to approach the information here is the same way you’re approaching other information you’ve read. Not everything will apply to you, nor will it all be accurate in a way that a peer reviewed article would be. I’ve found that many people share similar, but not exact, experiences with SSRI withdrawal. I try to write about the commonalities rather than the exceptions as much as I can.
November 16, 2012 at 10:58 am
There are hundreds of scientific papers about withdrawal. See http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/forum/16-from-journals-and-scientific-sources/ for some of them. Also search PubMed at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed
November 16, 2012 at 9:16 pm
Couple of more quaries if anyone has inputs.
1. Once you are on self awaremess path as predcribed here where you have to learn to differentiate between the real and withdrawl driven anxiety (anger, irritation etc),
Will it good to think over the thought applying some rationale and try to solve it or better to ignore it. I mean will trying to think over it make it worse and start a vicious circle or it will help the mind absorb the thought and learn to live with it.
2. Role of tobacco and alcohol during withdrawl. Any inputs on this ?what i have heard so far is the alcohol is not good for depression and although may proivde a very short relief may make the things worse. In my case I had quit tobacco around the same time i quit the Ssri (6 months back) Is the nicotine withdrawl also kicking in?
November 16, 2012 at 10:40 pm
Rational thinking can and does help at times. After decades of not having to think or face real anxiety or fears and just plowing thru situations that warrant these thoughts; rational thoughts can betray you. This is my second chance to get it right whatever right is.
I still smoke daily so I can’t speak to that. My drinking has been reduced to almost nothing. I have made 25 gallons of whine this year and have only enjoyed a few glasses with my wife on rare occasions. I never drank to forget or loose myself only for the feeling.
November 17, 2012 at 8:45 pm
Thanks a lot Dano.
November 17, 2012 at 1:18 am
It’s hard to strike a balance between mindfulness and obsession in withdrawal. Try to take it slowly. When you feel anxious or depressed, try to think about what could be causing those emotions. If you are unable to find a cause in your past or present, it is most likely related to withdrawal. As Dano says, it’s very hard to develop a sense of what is caused by an emotional/environmental trigger and what is caused by withdrawal. After having the drug suppress emotions for so long, the causes of emotions have receded from the conscious mind. Sometimes, the best thing to do is just step away from mindfulness and try to distract yourself from everything. Eventually, it gets easier to do, almost second nature.
Any chemical can be a risk during withdrawal. Everyone has different reactions to alcohol and tobacco during withdrawal. Alcohol tends to cause problems in withdrawal. You usually have a more pronounced drunken effect, and the hangovers are worse. Tobacco withdrawal usually causes irritability, mostly in the first month. That irritability does come back at intervals in the months after you first quit. They slowly diminish over time. I’m not sure if you’re experiencing nicotine withdrawal, but 6 months is one of the time frames that many people point to as a difficult point.
November 17, 2012 at 8:46 pm
Thanks a lot Npanth
November 17, 2012 at 11:34 am
I’ve been reading here for hours this morning, and it it has been quite a commiserating experience. Please consider my personal, and what I consider to be rather complex situation. It explains why I began SSRI’s, and other mitigation circumstances. I’ll attempt to be as concise as possible:
I am a single man, aged 56. At age 38 (1995) I had a quintuple heart bypass (both parents died early to heart disease, Dad – 40 & Mom – 55.) After surgery, I was placed on Xanax (amongst others,) and have been taking 0.25mg daily every since. I’ve had mild to moderate anxiety for most of my life, and have suffered from self-worth issues as well. I began social drinking in my early 20’s (a drink or two, only once a month or so, with friends.) Slowly over the years, I began drinking more frequently. By 40, I was drinking most every weekend, and by 45, 3-4 oz of hard liquor nearly every night. Until two years ago that quantity remained static, and I was fairly consistent with my “one drink per night.” To the point that I’ve become a practicing “isolationist,” with generally no social abilities other than family, I confess that I am probably an alcoholic. My best and only friend now, is my sister.
Two and 1/2 years ago, my best friend since age 14 died of breast cancer. Two months later, another long-time friend died. A month after that, the Aunt who had become my second mother, also died. I had become so severely depressed, that after many previous refusals, I finally agreed to my doctor’s advice on an SSRI. After an awful false-start with Celexa, Lexapro 10mg seemed to do the trick. I never took more than 10mg. I DID HOWEVER, begin to ramp up my alcohol consumption.
A year later, I experienced complete and utter burnout. I sold my home, quit my job, and moved to another state. I completely cashed-out my entire life’s savings (pension & 401k,) paid cash for a modest house here, and had no bills. I had enough money to survive for quite some time. Convinced that with a whole new life, I’d get a great job, and live happily-ever-after. In retrospect, I behaved irrationally, made a huge mistake, and now see that the past 18 months has been a fog that I can barely remember. Having quit my job, with only a budget insurance plan, I couldn’t afford the Lexapro anymore, so my new doctor put me on Paxil 20mg for 8 INEFFECTIVE months. No anxiety, but pure depression. I’ve forgotten to mention that in this past 2 1/2 years, I went from a healthy 170 lbs, to 225 lbs.
I sought out a new doctor who changed me to Prozac 20mg. After 3 months, no more depression but incredible anger and aggressiveness kicked in, so he gave me Viibryd 10mg samples to “try.” He instructed me to call in 30 days for a refill, or a visit. It was terrible, so I called his office. Check this out: I told his nurse that “I just hate it and want to die. Could I please come in and see him?” She said, “You want to die? Oh no, you’ll have to go to the emergency room!” I said, “No, I don’t mean KILL myself, I was just expressing my exasperation for goodness sake!” She proceeded to say that she could not take back what I’d said and that she won’t make an appointment for me until I have been evaluated by a psychiatrist. She wouldn’t budge. UN-FREAKING-BELIEVABLE. I’m not even sure the doctor knows I called.
So, here I am, no job for more than a year, no money, no insurance after this month, and a doctors office who doesn’t give a crap about me. They never even called to see if I am alive or not. I decided to go it cold turkey and just quit (what other choice have I got?) It’s been 5 days now. I had a horrible migraine last night and this morning. I feel a little hot, but the Tylenol has moved it to the background. Strangely-enough, mentally I feel fine today. I’m going to try again on Monday to convince her that I’m OK and want an appointment.
After 2 and 1/2 years on SSRI’s, should I expect this to become much worse?
November 17, 2012 at 1:19 pm
I’m really sorry that your going through,I can tell you this,I went cold turkey 4 years ago and for the first 4 or 5 days I felt great,then it all came crashing down,I didn’t tell my Psych that I stopped,when I finally told him what I did, he told me when you quit like I did and being on the drugt for so long, you get a kind of euphoria for several days and then the withdrawal and lack of SSRis kick your brain into a nightmarish hell that only the person experiencing it can explain.I tried I really did but I ended up back on a different drug , still an SSRI but not the one I was taking,I should have taken the same drug because I was never the same after that.
I just want to forewarn you that this could happen and hope you find help.
Jay Benson Sr.
November 17, 2012 at 5:24 pm
Thank you for sharing Jay. I did go back and review your particular posts in some detail. After reading, it reminded me that just when I think I have it bad, I only need to look to my left or right, because someone else has it MUCH WORSE than me. God bless you Jay.
November 17, 2012 at 1:32 pm
I did some things over the years that I was on Paxil that I just scratch my head at, now. I traded my truck in for a sports car, despite needing it to tow a boat. The boat has just sat in the driveway ever since. I was genuinely surprised when my friends questioned what I was doing. I gained 80 pounds. Towards the end, I started drinking, too. Luckily, that has faded away as my dose of Paxil has gone down. I lost the 80 pounds, too. It’s very strange. Paxil removed my inhibitions and self awareness to the point that I just did things without thinking about them. I started to take my job for granted, and my performance dropped dramatically.
I had the same experience with my doctor. I went to an appointment during the worst of withdrawal. I told him that I felt irrational anger, depression, and had suicidal ideation. He also gave me a starter pack of Viibryd and sent me on my way. There was no follow up. I’m glad I never started Viibryd, I think I’d be in a worse place now if I had. I think the industrialization of medicine has made it nearly impossible for doctors to understand the problems with these drugs. How can a doctor help you when he only sees you for 10 minutes, twice a year? All he can do is throw starter packs from the pharmaceutical salesman at you.
It seems like you have either developed or had an existing sensitivity to SSRI, which could make withdrawal more intense than normal. You could try switching to the generic version of the drug and tapering slowly from that. The cost of my generic Paxil actually went down after I lost my insurance. Instead of $10 per month, it’s now $4 per month. Apparently, the pharmacy I go to supplements certain drugs, including SSRI. One of the weird ironies of modern medicine. My copay was higher than the supplemented cost of the drug. I think a good way to approach this would be to wait a little while and see if your symptoms escalate. If they do get worse, you may want to consider reinstating and tapering slowly from there.
I also regret starting an SSRI. I would say it has done more harm to me than good. Regret about the past is one of the meta symptoms of withdrawal. It originates from the depression that withdrawal causes. It can be very overwhelming at times. Try to go easy on yourself. It will fade back to normal over time.
November 17, 2012 at 5:58 pm
Thank you npanth; your reply was very comforting for me. Your thoughts on industrialization is spot-on I think. Even the pharmaceutical makers of SSRI’s clearly state that they don’t understand the mechanisms of how they work, only that they “are believed to effect the re-uptake of serotonin,” etc. Of course, THEIR primary goal is financial gain. Even after typing that, I feel more of a guinea pig than ever. I know that our doctors don’t mindfully set out to cause us worse problems than we started with, and my best guess is that their only knowledge behind prescribing an SSRI, is that 3-minute lecture they get from the drug rep in the hallway of their office in-between patients. I just wish there was legislation in place to require notification about withdrawal syndrome.
Reading that you also had issues with weight gain and alcohol, and then lost your weight, gives me some hope (thanks again.) I just awoke from a short nap awhile ago, with no headache, but still flushed with head pressure. I’m hoping that only 2.5 years on SSRI’s is a short enough time to make my withdrawal less prolonged.
After being so long without work, and just weeks from being desperate, I have a job interview next week as a computer analyst. With over 30 years of experience, I still don’t feel quite mentally equipped to pass an interview (much less finding pants that fit LOL) but I’m going to throw it out there and try. If by some miracle, I do get the job, I only pray that I can DO the job as they would expect me to.
I’m so happy I found this blog, and you npanth. Per your suggestion, I will see if my symptoms escalate. I want to be COMPLETELY free of them, but if necessary, I have enough left that I can cut them to 5, 2.5, etc. That will be a last resort though. I’ll let you know what happens.
November 17, 2012 at 10:57 pm
npanth,unbelievable,I just finished reading your last reply and the things you did were so parallel to me.
I made mistake after mistake and never learned,I sold my boat because I needed money ,so I thought because I was out of work,the thing is, I could have just stored it till I got back on my feet,it was a couple of years later that I landed a very well paying job as a Network Engineer working for the Nasdaq Stock market,I had a six figure income
and life was good,well not entirely,I was still having PTSD problems and the stress was not helping,in 2002 I was laid off,I just bought a house in 2001 because with the money I was making ,I was getting hammered in taxes and I just bought a new truck and financed the whole thing at $600 a month,to make a long story short, my wife and I had to file for bankruptcy,I could not find a job, I was over 50 and after 2 yrs went into a deep depression,5 yrs later after a long battle to get back on my feet,I landed a job working for a school system as a pc tech,the lowest end of the the scale in the IT world,but I had insurance and it was cheep,before finding this job I went on disability,it was enough money to help pay the bills and enough income,that allowed us to refinance our home and I bought a new truck,I paid cash for it,because I said I would never finance another vehicle,the job I have was and still is the worst job I have ever held,I sold the truck 2 yrs after buying it,I wanted to buy a boat,I ended up pissing the money away.
There more to this story,but I won;t bore you with it.
I am now financing a truck and a new car,after I said I would never do it again.
I have not learned from my history and here I am repeating it,I know I should not have done it,but I did.
Jay
November 18, 2012 at 12:35 am
Jay – I’ve heard story after story of people who did strange things while they were on SSRI. From alcoholism to binge purchases, they just somehow lose control of their lives. It’s more than a little scary the way that Paxil and similar drugs change our personalities. An observer might say that we have abdicated responsibility for our actions, let go of our willpower. That’s not how it works, though. These drugs change our very perceptions of the world, suppress inhibitions, and make irrational decisions seem normal. I would never have let my career slip away like I did if I wasn’t taking Paxil. I didn’t think I was that different back then. I absolved Paxil of any role in my problems… until I spoke to several old friends who have known me from before I started taking Paxil. They all say the same thing. About 10 years ago, I “checked out”, stopped caring, became unapproachable and emotionally distant. Coincidentally, I started taking Paxil about 10 years ago. That has all changed in the last year. They all speak at length about how the old me is re emerging. I can’t wait until I’m all the way off Paxil. I’m eager to see what I can do once I’m free. I have to be patient, though, it will happen in good time.
Ain’t Life Grand – The first couple interviews in withdrawal were very difficult for me. The first two resulted in intense anxiety. I have been able to get better at interviewing since then. Like Jay, I had a well paying IT job, and am now looking at the full range of support jobs, from desktop to enterprise. I feel like I have to reassemble my life after what I’ve been through, almost like an alcoholic has to start over once he achieves sobriety. Try to relax as much as you can during and after the interview. Don’t be too hard on yourself, no matter what the outcome is. This will be a good test of your status in withdrawal. Job interviews are among the most stressful situations we face. It’s important to test our coping abilities during withdrawal, see where we stand from time to time. Don’t believe that an episode of anxiety is a failure, though. It’s a part of withdrawal, and will improve over time. Good luck, I hope you get the job.
November 17, 2012 at 11:39 am
P.S. I meant to mention that I regret starting the SSRI in the first place. I just wish I would have let myself go through the grieving process, as nature would have intended.
November 17, 2012 at 11:01 pm
I know what you meant , and it’s sad that our only alternative to a little sanity is to take a drug that took it away in the first place.
Jay
November 18, 2012 at 7:54 am
@npanth & JB Sr. I know this may be a little off thread topic, so please delete if you need. It’s fascinating to me that the three of us are in similar situations: SSRI’s, high-level IT positions, looking for the right job, all seemingly well-educated and well-spoken, yet still in that “place” of despair. I awoke this morning, albeit 4:00am, and unlike the previous 5 days, I am feeling well. No trace of a headache, no anxiety, calm pulse, nothing other than slight head pressure. What I am most focused on, is my mental state. This marks day 6 of zero SSRI input, and I am happy. Happy like I was many years ago. I am so hoping that this because the chemical is no longer masking my brain, and also hoping that this just isn’t the calm before the storm. Thinking positively (perhaps half the battle,) I don’t want to dwell on it.
So, here is the off-topic portion. I know that lacking confidence is a part of withdrawal, so I am hoping to get your opinion, just to be sure that I’m not reaching beyond my abilities. As I mentioned, I’ve well-over 30 years of experience in IT. Here are the requirements for this upcoming interview:
KNOWLEDGE OF: Client/Server Systems, SQL, Reporting software (Crystal Report or Report Viewer), DB2 database, .NET framework, Microsoft Exchange Server, .asp, C# or VB, and Windows Applications. Hardware and networking knowledge a plus. Three (3) years experience working as a software engineer/developer/programmer using .NET (with C# or VB), SQL to build Window Apps and .asp, Microsoft Exchange Server, DB2 Databases, and Visual Studio.
I’ve worked with most databases (to some extent) all the way back to IMS (IBM’s DBMS predecessor,) but never DB2 (which I understand is a completely different animal.) Still, being proficient with SQL, and applying it to the schema, just seems like a small learning curve to me. During the past 10 years, the company I worked for, was was stuck in a pre .NET environment, using only up to VB6. I set up ADO connections to make SQL calls to MS Access. Easy Peasy. Feeling as though my skills were falling behind, I installed Visual Studio and MS SQL Server Express on my home PC and began practicing. I taught myself and actually ended up creating three small systems for some P/T weekend clients, (I think the largest challenge was the difference in IDE’s (I like how the Intellisense exposes methods as you type.) C# and .VB are so standardized, that they are nearly identical now. Relying on the Framework rather than .com API’s makes it simpler I think. Played with Crystal Reports once, but never really used. Understand the concepts though: Plug DB data into predefined templates… Never used Exchange Server, but know what it is and does. I have LOADS of hardware and networking experience. Never used .ASP but have been practicing. I’ve done website development on the side for years. I know Javascript, PHP, HTML and CSS of course. I know JQuery It appears that for ASP, it’s server-side execution (like PHP) with C# embedded in Razor code. I think I can handle it. I’ve now even converted my domain at goDaddy, from Linux, to a Windows server so I could get .ASP support and practice the concepts.
So my question is, would YOU hire me, even with a lack of formal and recent .NET experience.? This job is for my local county. The listing closed (I never applied), then reopened the next week with “until filled,”) which means no one applied, or no one with adequate experience applied. So I threw my hat into the ring, and now waiting for the interview. Do you think my experience suits the position (learning curves not withstanding,) or will I fall into the “inadequate” column? Guess my confidence hasn’t come back yet.
November 18, 2012 at 10:55 am
Many times, job openings list all of the technologies they use, even if they already have a staff member responsible for it. For instance, I’ve taken some MSSQL classes, and can manage MySQL and MSSQL (user/group rights, installation, maintenance etc.) but I’ve only done some data management. Usually, that level of experience is adequate because the organization already has a dedicated data management person. I’ve done a couple Windows/Apache/MYSQL installs that I then handed off to a curriculum support person, who did the data management. Don’t assume that you have to be the only expert on every technology when you go to the interview. I try to be very honest about my abilities in interviews, which hasn’t been a great strategy. I’m starting to think that most applicants wildly overstate their experience, and interviewers seem to expect that. I get the distinct impression that they’re cutting 30% off my experience, and since I don’t exaggerate what I know, I’m 30% behind the other applicants. That may be a conceit on my part to explain why I didn’t get a particular job. I’m in this strange place where I’m over qualified for half the jobs, and lack some specific experience for the others.
Most of my experience is in Active Directory and Cisco IOS. I’ve always worked in very vertical environments, desktop support to Network Operations Center support. I’m also a Novell 3/4/5 CNE, but people don’t seem to be impressed by that as much anymore 🙂 Having the majority of my experience in educational IT doesn’t seem to be a feather in my cap. Everyone assumes that it was an easy job with summers off. Two of us configured and installed 265 layer 2 switches in a 9 site, 30 closet, school district over the course of 6 weeks, between summer school and the start of the next school year. That project included VOIP, QOS, and VLAN configs, with Visio documentation. Another summer, 6 of us imaged and installed 1400 computers, while I was rebuilding the entire Novell infrastructure from the ground up. That job had just as much pressure and responsibilities as a commercial position, but I get asked about it in every interview.
The job market is pretty hard these days, there are a lot of applicants for each job. Several of the jobs I’ve applied for have had over 100 applicants. In addition, many places are specifically looking for people with 3-5 years of experience, not people like us with 20+ years. We seem to be in the experience donut hole. I’m confident that something will turn up for me, and for you. Hang in there.
November 18, 2012 at 11:18 am
I appreciate the thoughtful response. In the late 80’s I went to Sunnyvale, California and trained at the Novell educational institute. You’re right, it’s not very impressive these days. Back then it was all bridged networking in a star configuration on coax, with extenders and repeaters from building to building. Ethernet was a twinkle in the eye then, just like Ethernet is becoming a twinkle in the eye of wireless now.
God, I’m getting old…
November 18, 2012 at 4:32 pm
npanth,I back in the mid 90’s saved the Nasdaq Stock Market 500k,by swapping out all the old 3 com core builders,
and setting up and configuring cisco 6400,5500 and 2600 router and switches,I finished a head of time, cisco bought the old core builders and I ran the fiber and terminated it,I also made brackets for the cisco equipment,because the cabinets they went into were old Compaq server racks,and the cisco equipment did not line up,I was given an accommodation for my ingenuity and finishing the job ahead of time,this did not save me from being axed when the time came,but it did look good on my resume.
Now I’m doing what you use to do,and I hate it,mixed environments do not play well together,I like you was a CNE
2.x,3.x 4.x and now zen 7. We are in the middle of migrating from Novel to AD and no one knows what they are doing.Our DNS does not work,we use iprint for printing and I hate it.We have 2 AD’s that don’t trust each other,to which I have pointed out several times to no avail,being a civil servant has no perks you are over worked and under payed,and you don’t know from year to year whether or not you have a job because of the budget restraints they put in place,I do know this,the upper echelon definitely takes care of their own.
ALG,I know what you mean,I get it from the younger guys I work with,funny thing though,I’m always the first guy they come running to when they can’t figure out whats wrong or want to know about tcp/ip,voip or hardware compatibility.
I may be a dinosaur,but I always keep up on the latest and greatest,something they do not do.
November 18, 2012 at 11:23 am
I would hire you with no hesitation,what you can’t expect an IT person to know everything,you have to learn the environment you are working in,I have yet to see someone walk into my place of employment and hit the ground running.
The other problem that I have encountered ,is age discrimination ,don’t let anybody tell tell you it doesn’t happen,it’s more prevalent now that ever. I went on 15 interviews after I got laid off and everytime I walked into the the Interviewers office
I saw the look on their face,they look at my resume and then look back at me,you see I went back to school after my accident and graduated in 1992,the same year my youngest son graduated High School,I got a degree in Electrical Engineering,and graduated Magna Cum Laude and I also went to school for Networking Technologies and I have certificates for Cisco and Microsoft,the thing that through them off was my age,I was 40 yrs old when I graduated and when recruiters saw graduated collage in 1992 with a BSEE,they figured I was only in my mid to late 20’s.
The 10 yrs I spent at the Nasdaq Stock market,I was constantly going to school,but after 9/11 the IT field and the Market took a nose dive,I am now only making a third of what I use to but that is about to change,they want to stop outsourcing and hire someone to do cable management and fiber ,something I excel at.
Lie if you have to,I did and it got me the best job I ever had,you have the experience and the tools,be confident in your interview and the rest will take care of it’s self.
Good Luck,
Jay
P.S. us older IT nerds are a rare breed. lol
November 18, 2012 at 11:38 am
Thanks JB. Yes, age and the weight I’ve gained on SSRI’s. If it’s meant to be, it will be I suppose.
I hate it when my brother-in-law teases me about my age. He usually comes up with something like, “Did you have to wear gloves when you changed the hot bulbs in ENIAC?”
November 18, 2012 at 3:09 pm
Today started really well, not great but definatley not too bad, that went on for 4 hours and then baboommm i wanted everything to stop i felt so bad, like i was going insane and just wanted to leave my body, and then massive panic because i felt like my mind was going to explode in my head, what the hell have these drugs done to me!!!! So I was thinking for the rest of the day that hold on I have never been right so why do I think i will get back to being right and then I saw a photo of myself at 21 (I am now 36) and i looked at it and thought actually then I was totally fine then and had never touched anti depressants so at least I know there is light at the end of the tunnel, that is if I make it as today I fear I will never ever get better, I even have been thinking maybe I should just take something as I am getting nowhere, feeling frazzled on drugs was better than this. 7 months 19 days off today x
November 18, 2012 at 11:27 pm
In a way, having windows and waves is good. At first, withdrawal is a continuous trial with little let up. Eventually, the symptoms start to break up and begin to fluctuate between symptoms and windows of feeling more normal. As time goes by, the windows should get longer and better while the waves get shorter and milder. hang in there. I know it doesn’t really feel like it, but you’re making progress 🙂
November 19, 2012 at 3:56 am
thank you because of yesterdays awfulness I have woken up so scared i will feel like that again today it is an endless circle i pray for the day I can have a normal life i am not sure how much more i can take, yesterday it was literally one minute i thought i was alright and 30 seconds later i was awful again and then 1 minute later again i thought i was alright, never had it that up and down before. I was out xmas shopping with my husband and then it hit me the doom and fear and insanity,i am so sad that I cant enjoy anything the simple things like a nice day out with my husband, im not asking for rays of sunshine and jazz hands but just simple normality with the average ups and downs, will this ever happen? I do so much for other people why is this happening to me, my life is being wasted but why do i even care when sometimes i want to be dead, that is not suicidal tendencies i am not suicidal so please dont woryy it is just the feeling of not wanting to be here and suffer, i would never ever do anything but i can totally understand the poor people who do! and the weirdest thing i can still hand on heart say this is note depression, it is no way the same. heres to hoping a change and improvement is round the corner, it must be after this long x
November 19, 2012 at 4:15 am
could it be possible that i am getting worse , or is it just the waves and windows that make me feel like that x
November 19, 2012 at 7:36 am
Well I think I have done my self more harm than good,I reintroduced 12mgs of Luvox to see if it would help with my GI problems,well it has helped a little,but now I am going through some of the worse symptoms I have ever experienced.some that are new to me,yesterday I felt ok for most of the day,I ate dinner around 6:30 pm and after that I started having problems with my stomach ,then I felt very weak and broke out into a cold sweat,I thought I was having a heart attack but I had no pain in my chest or arm,but my heart was pounding pretty hard,I took a couple of Xanax hoping this would calm me down and relax me ,but it did just the opposite ,I got frightened when I started having really bad sensations in my head,it felt like it was expanding and contracting and I was getting terrible brain zaps,I was not having these problems before the introduction , I wondering if this is a combination of withdrawal and side effects form luvox mixed together with the uncertainty that there is something physically going on,I am on my own with no one to help me,any thoughts about this theory ?,also I am experiencing extreme dizziness and being off balanced,I also noticed I have a problem with coordination ,I get confused when I go to move ,which causes instant dizziness and brain zaps,maybe I am really just stating to hit the peak of my withdrawal because it has only been a few months since my psych told me to quit the 25mgs of luvox I was taking,I thought I was on my way to recovery but now I am worse than ever,I don’t know what to do at this point.
any suggestions.
Jay Benson sr
November 19, 2012 at 8:03 am
Waves have a feeling of permanence that they really shouldn’t. Each time I entered a wave, it felt like that was a permanent turn for the worse. I tried to remind myself that it was temporary, but that was bare comfort while it was happening. It takes a long time and many cycles to intrinsically understand that they pass. Your waves and windows are very short, and that makes them feel more intense. The wave/window cycle adds uncertainty to the whole thing, too. It’s hard to tell what you’ll be like from day to day, week to week. That produces its own stress, which is a trigger for waves. Withdrawal is a self feeding thing. Your symptoms increase, which causes stress, which increases symptoms. The good news is that it works the other way, too. As you start to improve, it snowballs. The hard part is enduring the bad parts until it starts to improve.
November 19, 2012 at 8:42 am
Jay, if you had an immediate and severe reaction to Luvox/Xanax, it probably won’t help you in the long run. A lot of doctor prescribe those two together, but some people can be sensitive to it. Be careful with that combination. Polydrugging can add an extra dimension to the withdrawal problem, since it’s hard to taper off a cocktail of drugs. All the symptoms you describe, head zaps, dizziness, head throbbing, and fine motor control problems, are consistent with withdrawal. It seems like the biggest reaction you had was to the Xanax.
Give it a little while and see if your symptoms settle down. It could just be a temporary reaction to the drugs you took last night. SSRI and Benzos seem to have a “garden of eden” effect where they don’t have the same efficacy if you try to reintroduce them after a period of being off them. Hopefully, you’ll get back to your status quo soon, even though that’s a incremental improvement. I think you’re right that the Xanax and Luvox combined with your withdrawal to make your symptoms more pronounced.
November 19, 2012 at 12:55 pm
Jay, if I were you, I’d immediately reduce the Luvox, at least by half. If you’ve had withdrawal symptoms before, your nervous system may be hypersensitized to any further antidepressants. Your adverse reaction suggests that amount of Luvox is too much for you. It’s best to titrate up from, for example, 2mg to find the lowest effective dose. You might find you can tolerate only a few milligrams — or none at all.
November 19, 2012 at 4:32 pm
Thank you ,npanth and Altostrata, The thing is I am not taking it everyday (Luvox) it’s every other day,but I think I am so sensitive to the drug that your right, I should cut it down to as low as I can,I ‘m sorry now that I reintroduced it
because I would have rather put up with the GI problems than what I’m going through now.
I don’t know why I listened to my last shrink who told me to just stop taking it,the low dosage is doing absolutely nothing and I believed him, I am so pissed at him, I want to warn people about his ignorance/denial of SSRI withdrawal symptoms and his lack of compassion leaves a lot to be desired.
I will try cutting down to a very small dose and wean my self off by mid December or sooner ,I don’t think my body can handle the drug and quite frankly neither can my mind.
Thanks again
Jay
November 19, 2012 at 4:47 pm
Taking any antidepressant every other day is an excellent way to elicit withdrawal symptoms. Try a small, consistent dose every day, taken at the same time if possible.
November 19, 2012 at 5:57 pm
I just got through reading an article on Benzodiazepines ,they were never meant for long term use,and getting off of them is just as bad if not worse than all classes of psych drugs,so now I have a double whammy,SSRI an Xanax.
People who have taken them the longest will have the hardest time getting off of them,people with half or less years than me are having a terrible time getting off and some have just given up,I have become so dependent on Xanax
that I am (hooked) to coin a term,and will probably never be able to get off this drug with out the most severe withdrawal symptoms,regardless of how I taper it,I think now that I am fighting a losing battle and these drugs are going to do what the accident didn’t ,Kill me.
November 19, 2012 at 11:54 pm
I second what Altostrata said. Skipping days isn’t recommended as it puts you into an on and off withdrawal. Since these drugs can have delayed reactions, you may find that you feel the effect of a couple skipped days all at once. I know that most doctors’ tapering schedules include alternate days. Perhaps that works for some people, maybe for most people, but definitely not for all people. My doctor wanted me to skip days and get off 40mg/day Paxil in less than a month. I think that schedule would have put my well being in jeopardy.
I know how daunting it can be to read some of the experiences, especially with benzos. Try to remember that many people have recovered from withdrawal. It’s difficult, whether it’s withdrawal from an SSRi or a benzo, but it’s definitely achievable. Don’t be too hard on yourself. Some of the best advice I got from a friend of mine was to go easy on myself, give myself a break. Try to focus on the immediate, and before you know it the long term has taken care of itself. Withdrawal has a way of feeding on itself, circling around you like an anaconda. Try to keep in mind that your symptoms aren’t permanent, your reliance on these drugs isn’t forever. You’ll make it, hang in there.
November 21, 2012 at 8:18 pm
I think I have found a Psychologist that might help me,she is going to do an enzyme tests for drug reaction,has anybody ever heard of this? Is it worth it? She said she will help me get off the drugs,so will see.
In the mean time,I am getting really bad brain zaps,I have cut my dosage of Luvox down to what I think is 6 0r 7 mgs
and cut my Xanax to .5 mgs, I started taking them every day at the same time,but I think I;m reacting to the cut in Xanax more than the Luvox,Brain zaps are the most terrifying thing to me,I can handle everything else but those scare the sh!t out of me.
I hope everyone has a happy Thanksgiving.
Jay
November 21, 2012 at 8:29 pm
She may be referring to a test identifying liver enzymes, which are important for metabolizing psychiatric drugs. However, they have little to do with withdrawal symptoms and are a waste of money for this purpose.
Jay, please do not make simultaneous changes in your drug dosages. You won’t know which change is causing the symptoms. If I were you, I’d hold the Luvox dosage steady for several weeks at least. Your nervous system is susceptible to withdrawal symptoms right now. Making changes in the benzo dosage may cause flareups.
November 21, 2012 at 9:29 pm
I am at a loss right now,I thank you for your support and advice and you are right,I think I am reacting to the drug dosages more than the withdrawal right now,I was doing so good until I went back on the luvox,right now I think its more drug reaction
than withdrawal and I can’t seem to find a happy medium,I’m afraid of upping or reducing at this point,I’m also into my reliving my accident stage,it always starts around Thanksgiving,last year I lost 2 months of work,this year I can’t afford to lose anytime,I’m hoping this Psych my wife found will work out,because right know I am my own worst enemy.
Thanks for replying,
Jay
November 21, 2012 at 10:50 pm
I’ve heard of enzyme tests, but don’t know very much about them. I’d go with altostrata’s experience on this one. I’m not sure how to advise you about changing your dosages of Luvox and Xanax. I agree that staying at a certain dose or increasing can bring on symptoms. Changing both drugs at the same time complicates things as well. I think changing the Xanax may be more likely to cause symptoms, so it might be better to keep that one steady.
November 18, 2012 at 6:33 pm
I have been using whey protein isolate loaded with amino acids. I think it’s been taking the edge off. Why no talk about this?
November 18, 2012 at 7:37 pm
I like whey protein isolate. I also found it calming. Our bodies need the amino acids in protein to rebuild themselves.
November 18, 2012 at 11:24 pm
Whey protein just hasn’t come up in the discussion to this point, thanks for pointing it out. I haven’t really taken any supplements during withdrawal, so I’m not well versed in their effects and side effects.
November 20, 2012 at 8:32 pm
The protein is to be taken as an supplement or natural protein i. Cereal and pulsesneould help. I am a vegeterian so i dont think i have choices with natural protei .
November 18, 2012 at 11:00 pm
I took a low dose of Paxil for nearly 10 years with little to no side effects. I made the decision to go off the drug and slowly tapered for about 2 years before discontinuing all together. Within 6 months of stopping the drug, I got very ill with a variety of horrible side effects, including debilitating fatigue, horrible digestion problems, muscle and joint paint, dizziness, nausea, vertigo, chronic muscle spasms, restless leg syndrome, electric shock feelings in my face, and trouble concentrating. I had to quit my full-time job and lost my quality of life. I was seriously ill for 2 years before I started to see very small improvements. By the 3rd year of discontinuation, I considered myself mostly recovered. Within the last two months, I honestly started to fee like my old self again. Prior to this, I was a very healthy and active person who regularly enjoyed rock climbing, mountain biking, hiking and other extremely physical activities. Needless to say, this experience was devastating in so many ways, but I am now getting my life back on track. What helped me is a blog that I discovered many years ago when I was suffering from all these weird symptoms that no one could explain. I fired two medical doctors during that time because they both told me I was “just depressed” and had to go back on the drug. Ironically I never had one panic attack after discontinuation. All I can say is this blog really helped me cope because I realized I was not alone. Here it is: http://www.paxilprogress.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=7
November 18, 2012 at 11:29 pm
I participate on paxilprogress.org. I agree, it’s a good site. Altostrata runs a good site at survivingantidepressants.org, too. Both have knowledgeable and compassionate users.
November 26, 2012 at 2:56 pm
Mary, the story of your recovery is invaluable to other prolonged withdrawal syndrome sufferers and to medicine. Please post it here http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/forum/28-recovery-success-stories/
Unfortunately, paxilprogress.org discourages discussion of prolonged withdrawal syndrome. I had collected about 200 cases in a topic there, but they deleted it in a purge about 2 years ago, and banned many people with prolonged withdrawal syndrome. That is why I started SurvivingAntidepressants.org
Accounts of prolonged withdrawal syndrome are needed to help patients and doctors understand the risks of withdrawal and, hopefully, figure out a way to treat it. That is one of the objectives of SurvivingAntidepressants.org
November 20, 2012 at 8:38 pm
I want to thank all the contributors this site. I am hesitant to say as i dont want to jinx it but i think i have improved my withdrawl slightly. Unless it js again a phase and recurrence is around the corner.
The changes I tried is excercise and given up coffee. If nothing else excercise is Giving me a nice 8 hour sleep. Not sure on whether what worked with me will worked with all.
Still the withdrawl haunts sometimes but is managable atleast rightnow.
November 20, 2012 at 11:08 pm
My phases of withdrawal seem to be different from what’s stated here. I never get windows (may be at the beginning) but it’s unveiling like a chain reaction of new set of symptoms arising every couple of months while “old” don’t disappear (some of them subside temporarily). So, I am getting more and more debilitating symptoms – some of them get more prominent (as GI distress now – severe bloating, exacerbation of reflux, heart burn, gastritis, etc.), some – less. Moreover, what is of a serious concern now is depression that seems to have become steady now (not as before -every now and then). Unlike for many people, it intensifies as the day progresses and reaches it’s peak at night when it gets especially unbearable with it’s sucking in feeling. May be the season of predominant darkness contributes to that. What I am worried about is: could it be a new onset of “real” depression alongside with withdrawal symptoms? Is there a way to distinguish another bout of “genuine” depression from the one mimicked by withdrawal. Any thoughts on that?
November 21, 2012 at 1:25 am
It’s difficult to differentiate between depression that is triggered by a life event and that which is brought on by withdrawal. Usually, the best way to tell the difference is when there isn’t an identifiable trigger to cause it. When there isn’t a trigger, such as an event causing a memory to surface, it’s usually withdrawal related. It takes a long time to develop the mindfulness to tell the difference. Withdrawal depression takes events that wouldn’t normally cause a depressed reaction and turns them into a trigger. Withdrawal really does feel like an emerging, chronic, depression because it doesn’t let up and queues off of almost anything. Withdrawal depression is acute rather than chronic, though. By acute, I mean that it is episodic rather than life long. Time is the best way to tell which kind of depression you are experiencing.
Withdrawal usually begins with a period of time without windows, just rotating symptoms. It doesn’t start to break up into waves and windows until later. The amount of time with constant symptoms varies from person to person. Some people only experience it for a short time, others for a longer period. Again, time is the best way to recognize that your symptoms are starting to fluctuate between windows of stability and waves of symptoms. It’s very frustrating and difficult to have patience when you’re living each day minute by minute. It was several months before I started to understand what people meant by “windows”. When it did start to happen, it was rather sudden and took me by surprise. I hope your symptoms abate soon, it’s really hard to deal with that part of withdrawal.
November 21, 2012 at 9:23 pm
Thank you npanth: “Withdrawal depression takes events that wouldn’t normally cause a depressed reaction and turns them into a trigger” – that’s well put. And in this very phrase is the key: if a small, tiny thing that would have passed unnoticed for the “normal” person could push you off the track and trigger a depressive state then the poor condition you were thrown into by the withdrawal process, when you experience nothing but terrible symptoms and have to struggle every day, that could be powerful enough for a healthy person to end up being severely depressed, would pose a tremendous challenge for people like us to withstand. In other words, our constant suffering and quality of life near zero is more that enough to cause a depression outside of withdrawal. It’s comforting to hear that it will eventually pass but I am not sure I’ll last long enough because I am loosing weight due to digestive problems that interfere with assimilating nutrients from food. Tests show that my body is starving while I am eating normally and the doctors don’t believe me – they continue to attribute that to skipping the meals no matter what I say.
Jay, wish you good luck with a new psychologist, keep us posted about the testing – I have no idea what it means, psychologists usually don’t order routine or any tests, they are PhDs.
November 21, 2012 at 3:57 am
I’VE READ THE LOT AND MY WAY ARROUND THE WITHDRAWL SYMPTHOMS WAS PRITY SIMPLE
5THP SUPLEMENTS AND A HIGH DODE OF ST JOHN’S WORTH. AGAINST MY DOC’S ADVICE I STARTED THE ST JOHN’S WORTH 4 WEEKS BEFORE I STOPED THE LEX 20MG PER DAY.
AGAIN THIS WORKED FOR ME IT MIGHT NOT WORK FOR EVERYONE
November 22, 2012 at 4:30 am
ive been reading a lot of books and today after waking again at 5am anxious I feel so weird I just cant describe it, scared, depressed worried, numb, and in the books there are parts that say there can be permanent brain damage or that we dont recover so today i am sat here thinking i will never be right, i am striving for something that is never going to happen, its almost a dissapoitntmernt to wake up, Im not saying I want to die althought that would take the pain away, I must stress i am not suicidal, but everymorning when I wake up and realise today is no better I am devastated, almost 8 months drug free, I wish I coudl celebrate this ! I have had no brain fog for 3 days but I cant celebrate as all the other feelings are so bad, will i ever recover? x
November 22, 2012 at 11:03 am
A lot of the claims of permanent brain damage from SSRI are based on the same assumptions that get people to take these drugs in the first place. Specifically, that the brain is a static organ. In the case of the SSRI promoters, they’re saying that there is a permanent imbalance that needs to be offset by a drug. In the case of the brain damage people, it’s that the brain has been permanently altered by the drug. The basic assumption, that the brain is static, is too simplistic. The brain reacts to stimuli and changes its structure to accommodate new input all the time. Your brain is rewiring itself right now as you read this. It doesn’t hurt because this is just a little drop in the bucket. SSRi force the brain to restructure on a large scale. By blocking and down regulating receptors, the brain is forced to reorganize around the new normal. When the drug is removed, it takes some time for the brain to reorganize itself once again. An analogy would be a pain killer. You pull a muscle and it hurts. You take a painkiller for it. The drug blocks receptors that would make you feel the pain. Once you stop taking the drug, the receptors become active again, and you feel pain again. Painkillers are a microcosm of what’s happening with an SSRI. The numbing effect on your mind has been removed, which causes pain, psychic instead of physical in this case.
The brain has a remarkable ability to adapt and change to new environments. Another analogy would be silly putty. When you first get it, it’s in a nice little egg shape. After playing with it, you can form it back into a semblance of an egg shape again, but it won’t be exactly the way it was before. In the same way, your brain is reorganizing itself into a new functional state. It may not be exactly the same form it had before, but it will still be viable. Healing takes a long time and imposes a lot of pain in the process, but it will happen. The pain you feel right now is the process, not the result… and don’t think about your brain as a blob of plasticized clay! 🙂
November 22, 2012 at 2:36 pm
The following is an excerpt from the scientific article “Neurobiology of AD withdrawal”
However, as this article has emphasized, response to
antidepressant withdrawal may involve stress-related
events with more insidious and malignant implications for
the outcome of the illness. Under certain conditions,
overtly raised synaptic 5HT levels may be detrimental to
neuronal function and integrity. In this regard, stressinduced
down-regulation of BDNF mRNA appears to be
mediated by 5HT2A receptors (Vaidya et al 1999). Moreover,
tianeptine, a serotonin reuptake enhancer, prevents
stress-induced atrophy of dendrites of CA3 pyramidal
neurons (McEwen et al 1997). It has been suggested that,
in these preclinical models, 5HT released during stress
may contribute to neuroplastic events by enhancing
NMDA receptor efficacy (McEwen 1997). Furthermore,
removal of the inhibitory effects of the antidepressant on
NMDA receptor activity through disinhibition of facilitatory
glycine binding or, alternatively, inducing a stresslike
response through the activation of the hypothalamicpituitary-
adrenal and growth hormone axes will further
promote the release of limbic glutamate. The eventual
impact on neuronal function and integrity will be determined
by various factors, such as the pharmacological
profile of the antidepressant, the time-point and duration
of withdrawal, whether withdrawal or noncompliance is
repeated and how often, and the impact of associated
contributors such as inherent genetic and environmental
factors.
As described for depression, psychosocial and other
stressors will, together with genetic vulnerability and
effects on cortisol and glutamate release, provoke a
depressive episode culminating in changes in structural
plasticity and cellular resilience. This, in
turn, will result in neurodegenerative pathology with
volumetric reductions in critical limbic brain areas apparent
in clinical studies. Successful treatment with an antidepressant
will result in reversal of these neurochemical
and structural changes, culminating in remission. Inappropriate antidepressant withdrawal-associated
stress will engender neurochemical imbalances in glutamate
and GABA, as well as alter the expression of critical
cellular resilience proteins. The ensuing actions of raised
glutamate and NO on synaptic plasticity and cellular
aspects of memory may change neuronal and synaptic
structure in such a way that prior antidepressant response
is altered. This response could lay the foundation
for relapse, requirement for higher dose, and
possibly treatment resistance.
Conclusion
From a practical perspective, a focus on antidepressant
adherence and relapse prevention is crucial. The distress
that potentially accompanies antidepressant withdrawal
has not always been sufficiently appreciated. As alluded to
earlier, missed doses, abrupt dose reduction, or abrupt
discontinuation of some antidepressants may be associated
with an antidepressant discontinuation syndrome. Although
the severity of withdrawal symptoms may vary
with the type of antidepressant and between patients, all
too often not enough emphasis is placed on the possible
neurobiological effects and possible longer-term risks
associated with inappropriate withdrawal or discontinuation.
As emphasized here, antidepressant discontinuation
may involve a stress response accompanied by a set of
specific biochemical responses that cause further neuronal
dysfunction and that may compromise long-term outcome.
This is not to say that clinicians should continue antidepressants
indefinitely; it is, however, to emphasize that the
decision to discontinue antidepressants should be made
judiciously and on an individualized basis. Longitudinal
studies substantiate the recurrent nature of depression, so
that in some cases this may be regarded as a lifetime
disorder (Greden 1993). Considering these relationships,
an approach in clinical practice should arguably be one
that requires justification of discontinuation rather than
justification of treatment continuation (Greden 1993).
Further clinical research on how optimally to discontinue
antidepressants remains needed, and the underlying molecular
biology of antidepressant discontinuation deserves
additional study.”
The article suggests that the ramifications of withdrawal are actually unpredictable in terms of longetivity, intensity and an overall outcome. Not only SSRI’s effect but an unveiling withdrawal process continues to play the damaging role on brain chimistry and structure.
November 22, 2012 at 3:58 pm
Jane, that article is about “inappropriate” discontinuation, i.e. too-fast tapering. I have corresponded with the author, Brian Harvey.
November 22, 2012 at 4:27 pm
Yes, Altostrata, I am aware of that, but how many of people experiencing withdrawal could claim that they have done it appropriately if nobody even knows what it is. I think (may be it’s not an accurate assumption) that if discontinuation had been done properly for the particular person (because for each of us it’s different), then the person shouldn’t have withdrawal symptoms in the first place, at least not of a long duration. I know for sure that I have done it in a very wrong way, skipping the days. Despite the fact that I spread it for 8 ms it didn’t make it any safer. What we all are experiencing is the sign of “inappropriate” discontinuation whatever it implies.
Did you get a different impression from your correspondence with the author?
November 22, 2012 at 4:32 pm
jane, if you look for the worst-case scenario, you will surely find it. What’s done is done. Instead of scaring yourself about damage, you might study neuroplasticity. The brain is capable of remarkable healing. Best wishes for Thanksgiving to you.
November 22, 2012 at 5:44 pm
THANK YOU SO MUCH THAT HAS MADE ME FEEL SO MUCH BETTER!! A GREAT WAY TO PUT IT NPATH X
November 23, 2012 at 4:36 am
i have been thinking about it this morning and it is kind of like when we cut ourselves, we know it heals, it takes a while and as it is healing and when the wound is gettiing better it usually itches and throbs a bit until it is finally healed and you have forgotten about it, now and then you will see the scar and be reminded briefly of how you got it but then not give it another thought, I am hoping that is a good analogy of what is happening and how it will end. I had the best 3 hours last night i was doing an evening event for my job and i was so engrossed in what i was doing and speaking to people i felt completley normal, content and did not think once about withdrarawl, it was a beautiful few hours!!! this morning i woke up feeling bad again but as i lay in bed i told myself i am healing and this is withdrarawl not me, cant say it made me feel better but im doing what i have too x
November 23, 2012 at 10:53 am
That’s a good analogy. When you cut your finger, the skin is broken. After healing, it’s not quite the same as before, but it reaches a new functional state. I cut one of my pinky fingers to the bone once. It took a long time to heal, and has a funny looking scar, but it’s functional, now. So much so that I haven’t thought about it in months, until this moment.
It’s hard to make analogies about withdrawal that capture it exactly, There’s always some aspect of the analogy that doesn’t apply. The brain is a much more complicated organ than a finger. The process is similar, but different in some ways. It’s very hard not to think about withdrawal as a permanent condition. It’s so profound that it can’t be anything but permanent, can’t it? It isn’t, though. I think that’s the best part of an analogy to focus on. The body and brain can heal from very traumatic injuries. We may “think with a limp” after it’s done, but who doesn’t have some little nagging ache as they grow older? Eventually, they don’t even bother us, and we just go on as before.
The more you experience windows in withdrawal, the more you’ll be equipped to deal with the waves. There’s no context for health at first in withdrawal. After a while, when you get some time feeling better, it’s easier to see that waves are temporary and a sign that you’re healing. At this point, I have more time feeling good than I do feeling bad. When a wave starts to come on, it feels like I’m getting a cold, mental instead of physical. There are even times where I feel like a wave is coming on, but it dissipates before it develops into a full blown problem. Recovery has started to snowball, which is great. It will happen for you too, I’m confident of that.
November 23, 2012 at 3:10 pm
so you reckon because it is so up and down that it means it might be improving, i did think that today it is literaaly so up and down all the time that it must mean improvemnet is near. I have felt horrible today, the feeling that there is somethimng foregin in my head and that i could go insane, i guess what they call cognitive disfunction or brain fog. heres hoping after tonights sleep tomorrow might be a better day tomorrow, thanks for all your support x ps I cannot wait for the breakthrough to come x
November 23, 2012 at 3:41 pm
I also am having a terrible time today,my son came over and I was trying to help him fix his car,every time I bent over I felt like I was going to fall because I was so dizzy,and then the panic attacks came which I haven;t had one in 3 months and the constant anxiety and fear ,I am at a loss right now,I thought I could handle this,but I’m slowly losing it.
I’m afraid to take any high does of Xanax for fear of reacting to it.I know that this is a combination of withdrawal and myself medication,but damn this is bad.
November 23, 2012 at 5:00 pm
thinking of you jay, we will get better x
November 23, 2012 at 6:21 pm
Thank you, emma,I wish for and pray for all of us to get better.
November 24, 2012 at 9:11 am
so far today has been intresting, sad news about larry hagman, made me question point oof everything a little bit but got over that, and sooooo loved larry hagman, we have a massive who shot jr picture in our guest bathroom!!! went to bed last night with horrible full head feeling, but woke up this morning with it feeling like more of a headache which i can totally handle!! i would swap every day i have at the moment for a headache!!! anyway got up at 7am popped to toilet, got back into bed and meditated and woke up at 11.30am must have fallen asleep half way through the body scan, got a bit of a headache still but managed to pop to shops with husband and am just about to get ready to go to london for a 40th birthday party, dont want to go as i live in fear that i will be hit by a horrible wave while i am there as they are so up and down at the moment but I am making myself go. i will let youu know how i get on!! it is like when i fell semi ok, i am shadowed by the constant fear that in 5 minutes i could feel insane and like i want to die!!! fingers crossed, also a really really good book that i carry with me all the time and has helped me so much through the last 8 months is Recovery and Renewal by Bliss Johns you can get it on amazon, it is so helpful to pick up when i feel rubbish and has some great succes stories in it!!!! x
November 24, 2012 at 12:10 pm
Well last night was really bad for me,I never had a night where I could not fall asleep,and when I did it didn’t take much to wake me up,right now my hearing is so sensitive to noise and my startle response is at an all time high,I laid in bed this morning for a couple of hours and actuality was feeling ok,then it came on real slow like,now I’m where I was yesterday
but not quite that bad,it seem to get worse as the evening progresses and peaks just before I go to bed, I had such a terrible headache last night and finally gave in and took some Advil,I was afraid I was going to react to it and I still am.
I’m seeing a Psych this coming Wens, and we are going to figure this out,I already told her I want off the drugs,and she was fine with that,plus I have armed myself with a lot of info from here and Altostrata’s site,I’m hoping that one day this withdrawal syndrome will be recognized for what it is and not be marred by Dr’s,Pharmaceuticals and big Corporate Lawyers that blame the patient instead of addressing the real issues.
One can only hope.
Emma,have a good time and don’t worry like you said to me “we will get better” be safe. x
November 24, 2012 at 10:14 am
Fear of slipping back into a wave is one of the larger things about withdrawal. It’s very hard to let go of it. It will fade away over time, though. While you’re going through waves and windows, slipping can happen at any time, which adds uncertainty to everything. It’s so hard to predict when it will change. After a while without the extreme fluctuations, things start to settle down a bit. Waves don’t have the same unknown quality about them. You’ll get there. Have fun in London, but don’t feel bad if you slip into a wave while you’re there. It’s not a failing on your part, it’s being imposed on you by the drug.
It’s so hard to have patience while you’re going back and forth between waves and windows. That is progress, though, and it will get easier to see that as time goes by.
November 25, 2012 at 1:37 pm
EXTREME FLUCTUATIONS that is the best description of what i feel like, it is soooooo up and down where a few months ago it was long good days and long bad days. so yeaterday was ok, most of the day i felt on edge all day like i was so close to tipping into the insane feelings and i try soo hard not to get there but i know really there is nothing i can do to stop going into a bad wave. I said to my husband today that tomorrow could be the turning point, everyone who has got through this would not have exspected it on the day it actually started to change for them, i live in the hope that when improvement comes it will come quickley. anyway before i tell you about how horrible today has been, last night was fine, infact i really enjoyd myself, the drive into london i was worrying i was going to feel bad but when we got there and i saw my closest friends it was 90% good, i laughed and didnt think about feeling rubbish for a good 4 hours, it was so nice to laugh out loud. I had a tiny bit of anxiety but nothing i couldnt handle, we didnt get in until 2am and i slept fine but then this morning booom the usual waking anxiety, and now all day have had a horrible full, frazzled, mental head , soo bad that i almost want to throw up to get the feeling out and clear my head but i dont throw up and if i did it wouldnt work. all i want is a clear head, i am so desperate to find something that could help but nothing will speed it along, someone said to me they thought my new job soon to start might make me feel better but as we know winning the lotterey wouldnt make us feel better, only time and the brain rebuilding and rewiring, i just really dont know how many more days i can wake up and feel this horrible head feeling, it is so unfair, i do feel like i am going to go insane, again today i had fleeting thoughts that maybe i should just go back and get some drugs as being on those wasnt as bad as this, but as i say time and time again i am not depressed, i just want relief and to be normal, i now have figured out that where i was changed for 3 drugs in 1 year i have not just been suffering withdrarawl it has also been mixed with start up side effects!! 8 months off and i feel no better, i am literally sat in the living room tonight watching the clock, counting the hours until i can go to bed and switch off, i know when it is really bad when i count down till bed time, my husband is trying to speak to me and as much as i love him i just want to switch off. one good thing is i have kind f got in the habit of taking headache tablets in the vain hope that thye will stop the head feeling, i know they dont i just think it helps sometimes to think they may help, anyway i have gone 2 days without taking them, im going to read some succes stories to try and make myself fell better, stupid thing is i know in 2 hours i could feel fine, but that if i do i will feel bad again, it is so cruel, how can drugs have done this, a man on the withdrarawl line in the uk said to me it is like we have to train our brain to work again, like when people come out of a coma, its frustrating and it takes time and you want to give up but you get there.please tell me it will be soon!!!, thank you all your support guys, lovely bed awaits in 3 hours x
November 25, 2012 at 2:54 pm
Hi emma,it seems like we are paralleling each other,I had a small window from 9pm to 1am,fell asleep at 2 woke up ok
8am to 9am was ok,as soon as I ate something I had sever stomach pain which went away 2 hrs later,now I’m having brain fog and the same old symptoms as usual,I hope you can enjoy the rest of your stay,thinking about you, Jay
November 26, 2012 at 4:19 am
hey jay, are you still on anything? i really do believe we will get better it is just the wait for it to happen, i am starting to think i should call the feelimng in my head brain pressure rather tham fog as i am not confudsed just head full, not of thoughts but full of a physical feeeling, like really aware of my brain in my head, as much as i am suffering in a way i have to be thankful as I get 8 hours a night of sleep which in a way lets me recharge myself to fight another day, i cant imagine how much worse it could be withoout constant sleep at night, so although i hate this and want it to be over i am grateful for the ability to sleep and also i dont have brain zaps so also happy about that. i have to think that an improvemnet is soon to come otherwise all hope will be lost. I have bought a book about the brain repairing itself which i hope to read and understand that we can really repair our own brains through time. i know i didnt have this brain feeling before i started taking drugs 15 years ago and i didnt have it at the beigining of use but i have had it on and off for 10 years whilst i was on the drugs, was that tolerance withdrarawl, npath you might know?? today could be the day we start to recover x
November 26, 2012 at 8:52 am
Head pressure is a hard symptom to deal with. It’s like jamming a hat that’s two sizes too small onto your head and wearing it all day. I had that weird awareness of my brain, too. It was like I could feel it sloshing around in my skull. I’m not sure where it comes from, but it’s definitely a strange feeling.
Tolerance can take many forms. For me, it was new depression and irritability. I would get depressed every 4-6 weeks, like clockwork. At the time, I thought it was a condition that Paxil was keeping from becoming chronic. As I started tapering, that steady depression faded away. I’m convinced that Paxil was actually causing that depression. It’s too much of a coincidence that it grew worse and worse while I was taking the drug, and faded away when I stopped. I’ve had much more to be depressed about since starting to taper off the drug, but I haven’t gotten depressed like that in more than a year.
November 26, 2012 at 9:28 am
thanks for that, i am pleased to say so far today it is not there hooray!!! it is definatley something that has only come on with drug use and withdrarawl so i am sure it will go x
November 22, 2012 at 9:57 pm
I truly want to say ‘thank you’ for all of you taking the time to write and to share what has happened to you as you have experienced SSRI Withdrawals. I was put on Celexa/Citalopram 15 years ago to assist in reducing the severity and frequencies of my migraines. For years the medication seemed to work, but over time the migraines returned with severe intensity and I suffered from 3-4 a week … one led right into another. I spoke to my GP (my dr. for 19 years) and he stated that there were new medications that might work better. Last August he put me on Topomax and I can honestly say it was the worst experience of my life. I spent two days in bed because I was so dizzy and tired. Then as the days went on the symptoms became worse, I cried all the time, I was like in a zombie state most of the time, I had huge memory lapses…I was terrified. I had an aunt that was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s at the age of 49 and I was 50. I finally started to look on the web and researched the symptoms; I had them all. I phoned my doctor and he said I was having an acute allergic reaction to the new medication and he took me off it and put me back on the Celexa. It took me 14 months to regain the mental strength to agree to try something new. The day I went to my GP he introduced me to an intern that was working with him and this dr. was interning in neurology. He specialized in migraines. The newest way to treat migraines is with doses of CoQ10, Slow Mag (Magnesium Chloride) and Riboflavin (B2). It has helped a lot, however in the process of putting me on this new form of treatment they took me off of Celexa. I was taken from 40 mg. to 20 mg. for two weeks, then reduced to 10 mg. for 2 weeks before ending this medication. It has been almost a week and I have to say the withdrawal symptoms remind me of some that I experienced with the Topomax. I came to this site when searching for SSRI Withdrawal symptoms and how long they last. I am feeling tired but cannot sleep. I have extreme pressure behind my eyes and in my temples. I feel as if air is ‘whooshing’ through my head every time I turn my head. My moods vary … I can cry within seconds and get very annoyed easily. I find that I am very ‘touchy and snippy’ for lack of better adjectives. My husband of 30+ years joked with me that he wondered if the med’s have kept the ‘real’ Julieanne under wraps for the past 15 years. I normally would have laughed at this … I did not find it funny. I do not want to be touched and at times feel as if a furnace is stuck on ‘high’ in my body. I do realize I am in the midst of menopause but this is different. My daughter said that she notices I am ‘grouchy’ and everything seems to bother me. This is NOT my normal personality. I have actually considered calling my GP and asking him to put me back on my medication at the 10mg. I am even more scared after reading these testimonials. I loved the person I had become in the past few years where I was able to see the good in most situations and did not let every little thing bother me. Now? I am bothered by so many things and get frustrated easily. I never realized how serious this medication was until I read more about it since starting to experience these withdrawal symptoms. I have not found that the weight is coming off either which is rather disappointing considering that I had really hoped removing the Celexa from my medication regiment might give me back the tiny waist I had 10 years ago. I am thankful that I have not had the nausea and vomiting though my appetite has been affected; food tastes different and I am really not enjoying it even if it is my favorite meal. Reading much of these entries I realize so many of you have it much worse than what I am experiencing so I don’t want to complain but I pray that this ends soon. I am already tired of feeling this way and it is only a week. I return to my doctor in December so of course I will be sharing all of this with him and will seek his advice. He has been a wonderful dr. to me for these past many years and a great listener so hopefully he will have some suggestions of what can be done as I walk this new road ………
November 22, 2012 at 11:18 pm
Julieanne, I have twice as many years of taking SSRI’s and Benzo’s,I have had more cocktail mixes of drugs than they have drinks at a bar.We were never told of the long term effects of these drugs and a lot of us, like me ,were never told about the side effects,I just learned about the side effects a few years ago when I stopped cold turkey,it was a psychiatrist who was very ill himself that told me about sudden discontinuation and it’s side effects.
I think this goes with out saying,if we knew what was going to happen to us by taking these drugs we would have never taken the them in the first place,I believe there’s more to our brains than just chemicals and electrical circuits,and the matrix has yet to be fully mapped,in fact we haven’t even begun to understand why a lot of the brain goes unused,I as an engineer, I believe that all that extra brain mass is for remapping,all we need to do is learn how to tap it and some day I believe this will happen.
In the mean time I need to take my own advice and the advice of 2 great people here,npanth and Altostrata.
I like you went to the net to find some kind of rational reason as to why I was having symptoms I never experienced before on ssri’s or when I was at the peak of my illness.Withdrawal is by far, worse than anything I went through,even 26 kidney stones,because I new eventually the pain would be gone and there are new pain killers that are tailored just for people with kidney stones,but with SSRI withdrawal ,you don’t know when the pain and symptoms are going to stop and there’s no drug that is going to give temporary relief even for a minute,but we are not alone and even though I have done myself more harm than good,I am so happy that I have found this place and Altostrata’s site,I am scared,but I believe in these 2 people because they have been there and are more than willing to help in any way they can.
Jay Benson Sr.
November 23, 2012 at 12:49 am
Julieanne, I wouldn’t dismiss you if your symptoms are lighter than someone else’s. That would be a race to the bottom, and we’re all here to get over withdrawal, no matter what the symptoms are. Besides, what benefit is there in proving that I have it *worse* than you? 🙂
Irritability is one of the most pronounced symptoms of withdrawal. I’m an easy going and conflict adverse person. The anger I had during the worst parts of withdrawal was nearly uncontrollable, though. Try your best to keep from doing anything you might regret later, but don’t beat yourself up if you slip. Lashing out at someone is almost inevitable, and you shouldn’t add guilt over it to your withdrawal symptoms. Try to be honest about what you’re going through with your family. It’s very hard for other people to understand how short tempered a person in SSRI withdrawal can be. Dealing with it can make them defensive, perhaps even resentful. It’s a temporary situation, though, not a permanent change in your personality. There are no outward symptoms of withdrawal, just an internal struggle. Trying to communicate an internal state to another person is very hard. The way that symptoms fluctuate makes it hard on loved ones, too. One day you feel pretty normal, the next can be much more difficult. Seeing that personality change can be hard on them. It can lead to transference of emotions. Instead of giving you the support they intend, they may react with recrimination and anger. Just as they need to be patient with you, you also have to be as patient as you can be with them. Don’t think that withdrawal is uncovering some hidden personality defect. It’s actually the opposite. Withdrawal is causing you to act outside your normal nature. SSRI have a tendency to change personalities. the turmoil that you’re feeling is your mind recovering itself after that chemical change.
Your taper was very fast, probably too fast. You may be one of the people whose symptoms are short lived. For many patients, they usually start to feel better after 4-6 weeks. That’s a long time to find out if you’re sensitive to the medication and withdrawal, though. I’d say if you’re not beginning to improve by the time you have your next doctor appointment, consider reinstating at a lower dose and doing a slow taper from there. People that are sensitive to these drugs require a much longer tapering schedule than the one given by most doctors. I think more people than we think fall into this group, but the official statistics place it at under 10%.
You will get back to your old self. It may take some time, and it may not be easy, but it will happen for you. Hang in there, I hope your symptoms even out soon.
November 23, 2012 at 3:16 pm
Julianne, as I read what you’ve written it occurs to me that the symptoms you attributed to a bad reaction to Topomax were severe and prolonged symptoms from a precipitous withdrawal of Celexa.
I’m perhaps going to err on the cautious side. Since you had this previous severe withdrawal, which might have made your nervous system more susceptible to withdrawal damage, if I were you I’d get liquid Celexa and reinstate perhaps 3mg as soon as possible. Wait at least a month for your nervous system to stabilize, then go off very slowly from that low level, at a 10% decrease per month calculated on the last dosage (decreases will be getting progressively smaller).
This will ease your nervous system off the drug.
November 23, 2012 at 3:30 pm
I was talking to my husband about some of these symptoms and he suggested the same thing re: Celexa/Topamax. I am going to wait a day or two and then call my doctor and get his advise. I assume my GP has to order a prescription of 3mg Celexa?? I did not realize it came in such a low dosage.
November 23, 2012 at 3:43 pm
Ask your doctor for a prescription for liquid Celexa. You can measure the dosage you want with an oral syringe you can get from the pharmacy. Be prepared to insist, many doctors know very little about tapering and withdrawal symptoms.
November 23, 2012 at 5:36 pm
Thank you! I did speak to my doctor’s office and told them what is happening. I also explained that I had been reading about individual’s struggling with withdrawals from SSRI’s. My dr. was not in today so she put the note in his email and said when he comes in on Monday he will read it and call me. I will have to deal with what is happening and continue to pray that the symptoms do not get worse.
November 24, 2012 at 3:07 pm
Today has not been a good day physically. My sister phoned and immediately knew from my voice I was not feeling well. When answering her question of ‘what is wrong.’ I basically said “It is an over all unwell feeling.” I did phone my doctors office yesterday and hopefully will hear from him on Monday. I am even debating the issue of going back on a low dosage of Celexa – like 10mg. I slept for a few hours last night but kept waking. When I did wake it was with a migraine which is getting worse as the day goes on. So thankful that I have my faith and believe in prayer because the Lord is hearing from me a lot these days. When speaking to my sister I just learned that she too has been on Celexa (after being weaned from Prozac) for about 5 years. I did not know this. I knew she was suffering from anxiety attacks but had no idea they switched her medication. Honestly I feel as if I would rather be on the 10mg the rest of my life than to deal with these symptoms and yes, I know that may sound cowardice but at this point I don’t care. It has only been a week of these symptoms so I am so sympathetic to those of you who have suffered for so long and are still dealing with them. Prayers for all of you.
November 24, 2012 at 3:56 pm
Coward is not a word you should use. These conditions are very powerful in many ways as only you or someone else that had or is going thru this. I am coming up on one year of living thru this nightmare and have made many mistakes and a hand full of triumphs. If you decide to reinstate this stuff; it’s might just be what it takes to slowly get you through it.
A coward in my mind is someone who knowingly leaves a givin situation that should not have been left. The situation you and I face and many others is Un-known. You can only do what you think is right for you and I wouldn’t call that being a coward.
Sorry if these couple paragraphs sound cheesy but I’m not the best writer. If it helps I really do feel your pain and wish you well.
November 25, 2012 at 12:22 am
Dano, that’s not cheesy at all. It takes a long time to come to an understanding about how withdrawal works, even longer to gain the perspective that you have. We’re essentially medical heretics to taper off these drugs in our own way. “Medically non compliant” at least. Without that little rebellion, we would all be on a pile of these drugs by the time we went through the diagnostic process.
November 25, 2012 at 12:17 am
Withdrawal simultaneously shows us how strong and how weak we are. You may feel weak at the moment, but you will look back at this time and realize that you were never stronger. If you feel that your well being is threatened, don’t hesitate to reinstate at a lower dose. It’s not a capitulation, it is an opportunity to taper at a slower pace. I felt like reinstating was a failure, an admission on my part that I could not do what so many others seemed to do so easily. It has worked for me, though. Instead of lying on my living room floor in fear for my stability, I can function again. It will take much longer than I thought to taper off Paxil, but I will now do it on my terms, instead of jumping off the withdrawal cliff. I can see the drug free Me emerging again, too. He’s been smothered under the brain fog for years, but he’s poking though more every day. I can’t wait to see what I can do once I’m totally free.
November 24, 2012 at 7:19 pm
Has anyone tried to wean off of Pristiq? I have been on a 50mg dose for about a year. My Dr just said to take one every other day for two weeks, then stop taking it. He said I might feel different but not sick.. I am trying but I have a headache that just won’t go away, and keep hearing a “swishing” sound, especially on the off day. Is there any other way to cut back on Pristiq?? It is the lowest dose made, and Pristiq is a time relased pill, so cutting it in half ot quarters just doesn’t work. It’s been almost 2 weeks and the swishing/whooshing sound/ringing ears is getting louder! Any suggestions??
November 25, 2012 at 12:03 am
It’s very frustrating to me that doctors advise skipping days to taper off SSRI/SNRI. That basically puts you into an on/off withdrawal state that only complicates your taper. You should take a consistent dose each day, and taper slowly, much slower than most doctors recommend. The whooshing feeling is very common during withdrawal. Along with head zaps, it’s usually one of the first symptoms that people report. It can progress into dizziness and loss of spatial orientation. If your symptoms become worse, you should pause your taper at your current dose until you feel stable again.
10mg is the lowest dose that Paxil comes in. In order to get the intermediate doses for my taper, I’ve been using a file to reduce the size of my pills. It’s not a perfect system, my pills are not accurate to the degree that I would like, but it has been working for me. You can also contact a compounding pharmacy that can make intermediate dosages out of your pills for you. Regulations control the density and distribution of active ingredient in drug tablets, making it easier to get a consistent dose out of partial tablets.
November 25, 2012 at 1:35 pm
The problem is, this is the lowest dose they put out. And being a times release thing, I can’t cut the pills or I am in the same boat as every other day… a big dose then nothing! I have not returned to my Dr with these problems but I think I might. There is no compounding pharmacy near me, so not sure what to do. I want off these things!
November 25, 2012 at 2:56 pm
Sue — Tips for tapering Pristiq: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/876-tips-for-tapering-off-pristiq-desvenlafaxine/
November 26, 2012 at 5:48 am
Hi npanth, I just wanted to ask about a symptom that I have been getting alot of and is it withdrawal, I sometimes feel spaced out or detached from reality, sometimes after doing something like meeting and chatting with a friend or going to the shops it seems like a blur and that I wasn’t really there, its hard to explain, I am quite irritated as well, and find it an effort to just chat to people and totally drained afterwards as well……..
November 26, 2012 at 9:04 am
It’s called Anhedonia, a disconnect between ourselves and our emotional state. It’s very common in withdrawal, perhaps one of the most common symptoms. It’s very hard to describe what it feels like. As you say, you go to the market, but never connect with anything, have trouble remembering events, things like that. It’s as if you’re following yourself around, watching yourself go through the motions of life.
It takes some time for it to go away. It’s such a fundamental and subtle aspect of our emotional lives that it’s hard to measure progress. It does get better, though. It starts with a little laugh at something funny. Eventually, you realize that the things you used to enjoy give you pleasure again. It’s the kind of symptom that heals itself before we realize it’s happened.
November 26, 2012 at 2:59 pm
More specifically, it’s depersonalization or derealization, a common withdrawal symptom.
November 26, 2012 at 9:22 am
i know i am not npath but for me and others that is one of the most common things, depersonilastion and derealisation, exactley as you described, it does get less, I am still strugglin a lot after month but that has definaltey become less, good luck, npath will describe better x
November 26, 2012 at 9:35 am
Its good to put a name to it, everyday can be such an effort, its such a weird feeling of not being able to enjoy things and not being fully focused and alert etc
November 26, 2012 at 11:28 am
The hardest part of it is that it “feels” like your normal state at the time. It’s hard to imagine feeling any different while you’re going through it. I think that’s why it’s so hard to measure progress until after it happens.
It is a really strange feeling. The thinking part of your mind recognizes that something should evoke an emotional response, but there is no corresponding reaction from your emotional self. It will get better, eventually. Try not to worry about it too much if you can. I had a lot of trouble with anhedonia, it felt like a permanent condition. I really surprised myself when I chuckled at a stupid cat meme I saw. I realized that it was the first time I’d found something genuinely funny in… a long time. Since then, it’s gotten better. I have a much better appreciation for social interactions. I pay better attention to the people around me and my own internal state. After you get through the depersonalization, you should have a better internal mental life. You just have to get through the hard part. hang in there.
November 26, 2012 at 7:49 pm
Are there any tips or techniques that might help with depersonalization? I have and still have this condition 24/7. Hate it
November 27, 2012 at 9:27 am
Time is the best cure for SSRI induced depersonalization. Since it is drug induced, it should diminish over time. There are some intermediate things you can do to help, though. Try to get out with friends. You can even try to engage people in line at the supermarket. Pay attention to your emotional responses to people, TV, books, etc. I first realized that my depersonalization was breaking up when I caught myself chuckling at an internet meme. From there, it slowly gained momentum. It feels like an emotional head cold. Everything is blocked up, stuffy and numb. It breaks up like a cold, too. Your emotions may be a bit unstable at first, but it should even out over time.
November 27, 2012 at 6:04 am
wow yeasterday i would have said I was 75% normal, that is not a bad place to be when the day before i was 0%, it was a welcome relief to have a day of no mental trauma. today i also dont feel too bad but very blue and low, which annoys me because surely I should be elated that I dont feel too bad!!?? !! I am annoyed at myself for not being happier about the fact that i dont feel awful, is that another withdrarawl symptom? when it is over will I enjoy life and embrace feeling normal!??? x
November 27, 2012 at 9:06 am
It’s very hard to recognize progress in withdrawal. While your symptoms are fluctuating there is always that fear of slipping back into a wave. It’s not until you get some time of sustained wellness that the pieces start to click together. It happens, though. It takes longer than I would like, longer than any of us would like, but it does happen.
I wouldn’t call the annoyance that progress is slow a symptom. It’s more of a meta symptom. Something that is caused by the symptoms themselves. The fear of renewed symptoms and frustration at an inability to recognize progress will get better, too 🙂
November 28, 2012 at 3:49 am
its like when i have had a few days feeling better i am so grateful that i feel better i try not to focus on the feelings that are still there. When I feel at my worst I can understand that the only ways is up and that we will get better, but when I have a window and feel a bit better i get worried that is the best I am ever going to be. I guess when people say they have repaired a bit but still have some old symptoms that this is what will happen and eventually everything will be good. I am assuming that w indow doesnt mean that the feelings during the window is fully repaired, it is just a relief from the horrible wave, am i right in thinking a window is not fully repaired but it is the road towards it? x
November 28, 2012 at 10:57 am
Yes, windows and waves are the cycle that establishes itself during recovery. Each is a counterpart to the other. At first, recovery is just one long wave, unrelenting symptoms. The next phase of recovery is when that wave starts to break up into cycles of windows and waves. Slowly, the windows get longer and the waves get shorter. There isn’t any point in time that you can point to when the window becomes recovery. There just comes a point where you realize that you haven’t had a wave in a while, or the wave was so subtle that you had to be very mindful just to see it.
A good analogy I read is trying to remodel a skyscraper while its occupied. As the remodeling moves from floor to floor, there is chaos and disruption. When the remodel finishes a floor and moves on, that floor functions again. How much chaos we feel during a wave depends on which floors we spend most of our time in. In a window, you may still be remodeling, but it’s not on a floor that you’re “living” in at the moment. Waves occur when they’re remodeling the lobby, or fixing the elevators, places we spend a lot of mental time in. The more remodeling that gets done, the more livable space there is in the whole. The positive thing is that once one aspect of our mind has undergone remodeling, it starts to function again. There may be other parts of the mind that still need some work, but each wave is a step towards finishing the entire project.
November 28, 2012 at 1:01 pm
good analogy, so the building work is not all done while i recover in a window, i would hate to think i wont return to full health and all symptom free, its like if i donr have brain fog i have anxiety, if i dont have tight head i want to cry, when something goes something else not quite as bad replaces it, i feel really chemical at the moment but wasnt too bad at the begining of the day, oh well 2 and a half days not too bad is a turning point! x
November 28, 2012 at 6:44 pm
Well I went an talked to a this psych today and as Alto and some suggested ,it was not going to be the way I wanted it,She made some good points about the trauma to brain from having high voltage surge through it,Like a couple of other Psychs did.
Your brain has been altered by the electricity that surged through it, I can understand that having 11,000 volts surge through anything is not going to make it better,although I think sometimes its just what I need to straighten me out.
She agreed that I was suffering from withdrawal and between my Psychs and myself, I have become hypersensitive to any amounts of drug changes and should take my Xanax the way I was prescribed for now.
She can’t understand why the the last Psych told me to stop the luvox cold turkey, that this set me up for a barrage of problems ,hey like I don’t know that.
She is affiliated with Yale and Bridgeport mental health and is involved in a new program that test a persons tolerance to all psych drugs,while I am intrigued by this new method , I was told to keep an open mind.
I may have to take a little dosage of what ever to keep me stable,that’s when I kicked my wife in the foot,indicating that this was something that she was going to say,I told her that she needed to keep an open mind too.
I want off the drugs and this was my long term goal, she agreed and said putting that aside for now I need to get stable and stay that way for awhile, she said your quality of life right now is not good and the most important thing right now is to get me on the right track and get stabilized,she checked my heart and blood pressure which was good and took a case history and just could not believe what I have been through.
I told her of my symptoms that I am having right now and agreed that my reintroducing the luvox after being off it for 4 months triggered the problems I’m having right now.
She asked me why I reinstated the drug and I told her because of the GI problems I was having ,did the problem
get better ? ,yes I said it did but now I’m having all these other withdrawal problems.
This blood test that they do test your reaction to all psychotropic drugs ,how their broken down and which ones will be toxic to your system,she showed me an example of a patient and how the chart works.
This is all well and good i said but what do I do now to get myself back on track ,she told me to stay where I am,don’t alter anything give my body a chance to heal,well here goes nothing.
JVBSR
November 28, 2012 at 11:38 pm
It’s amazing how long the list of symptoms can be when you sit down and catalog them. When I wrote the post listing them all, I thought it would be rather short. It turned into more than a page. Whenever I start to list them to someone else, they usually stop me after a dozen or so. I think it becomes overwhelming and hard to absorb for other people when it gets laid out like that. I hope the new psych doc can provide you with a better plan than the last one. It’s a big step to find someone who accepts your symptoms, there seem to be too many who dismiss it as hypochondria or even psychosis.
November 29, 2012 at 1:47 am
i feel scared and panicy again today and have a very important meeting this morning, not great but I just have to get through it, roll on the day happiness returns and stability, still not as bad as last week but yesterday I went down hill a bit again, i felt chemically, almost wired and on the edge of something. Jay it sounds like your new psych is quite supportive, keep trucking as they say, you have had so many ups and downs and on and offs it will surely stabilise soon x
November 29, 2012 at 4:34 am
I’m not counting on it emma,but if it happens great. sorry to hear your still having those problems,I am having the same
problems and one I never got before .the feeling of passing out,this really scared me and I checked the symptoms on line,and this was one of the stop taking immediately and call your DR right away severe side effects.I didn’t take it last night and I don’t have that anxious ,off balance I feel like I’m going to pass out symptom ,I was suspect of the drug when I first reintroduced it a month ago,yes it helped my GI problems but it created a whole lot more and on such a very low dose.
Hang in there ,hopefully we will see a little bit of sanity coming our way.
November 29, 2012 at 9:14 am
Hang in there, Emma. Meetings can be stressful enough without the complication of withdrawal. Try to rest this afternoon without thinking about it after the meeting is over. The chemical, edgy feeling usually happens at the beginning of waves. It doesn’t always turn into full blown waves. That was one of the ways I knew I was getting better, when I felt the initial stages of waves but they didn’t turn into full blown waves.
Jay, I feel bad that you have to make such difficult choices between symptoms and drugs. That passing out feeling is pretty scary. I had similar symptoms a couple times when I was fast tapering. Everything just seemed to fuzz out for a moment. I didn’t actually pass out, but I had to lie down several times. Hopefully, your new doc can find a drug that treats you GI problems without causing so many other effects.
November 29, 2012 at 4:25 pm
npanth, yea it was very frightening to say the least,today I had some off balance and a little anxiety,but it was nothing like yesterday,I purposely skipped taking the luvox to see what would happen,at this point I am scared to take it again,today was not as bad,and to tell you the truth,I’d rather put up with the Gi problems than have to put up with the reaction to luvox.
At this point I’m all over the place with the dosage and as much as I know how bad cold turkey can be, at least now I know that my GI problems are from withdrawal and anything I get now will be from the very little luvox I was taking,I went and had my blood test this morning,takes 4 weeks to get the results,not that I care but I would like to see what my reaction to luvox on the chart will look like.I never should have started taking it again, but here I am again letting a psych drug make decisions for me.I know what I’m up against and as long as I believe this will get better,I have a better than average shot at beating this , it’s just gonna take time,probably years,but that’s OK. as long as I reach my goal of getting off this psychocoaster, that’s all that is important to me.
November 29, 2012 at 11:57 pm
You’re not alone on the drug roller coaster. I’ve talked to many people who wound up going on and off medications, switching medications, all kinds of things. I hope the Luvox doesn’t cause you too much more trouble. I know what you mean when you say that the symptoms of the drug can be more troublesome than the problem it’s intended to fix. I had a similar experience with Paxil.
November 30, 2012 at 3:14 am
thanks guys, meeting was fine, felt pangs of badness now and then but brushed them aside everytime i became engrossed it the moment with the people i was meeting with, but after meeting and when i got home was just totally wired felt horrible,k started as a headache and then turned into the brain fog/pressure and when on until bedtime, then woke up 5 am this morning anxious as hell and scared and feeling pretty horrible, such a shame after 2 full days of being better, and then i dry heaved about 10 times, i havent done that for a good few months but I kind of take that as part and parcel of the symptoms now, i am in contact with a lvely woman who had pxil withdrarawl for a year (she is now free of all symptoms, good news) and she had dry heaving for a long time so i am kind of used to it. Im just so scared that i will feel this bad forever, and now off to work for another day, much better for me than being at home, infact through this whole nightmare which has been over 2 years as when they were swapping me between drugs i was having start up side effects and withdraraal form paxil and prozac but only 8 months of all drugs completely which i believe is not very long really, i have gone to work every day, never taken one day off as the distraction helps me. I am now off to have my spinach, brocoli, carrot, ginger celery and cucmber juice ( i have been healthy living for the past 4 months to try and help the horrible feelings and have lost 53 pounds) i feel like it is my natures medicine. I am thinking i might try accupuncture. I just hate that one day i feel better and the next in the depths of despair and pain, mental pain, be strong people x
November 30, 2012 at 10:15 am
It was good that you were able to push the symptoms aside. The symptoms that you’re feeling today may be the repercussions of that. Mindfulness starts out like that. We’re able to push the feelings aside, but still have to experience them at some point. Eventually, the repercussions get lighter and lighter. It’s important to keep trying, because it will eventually get easier.
If you can’t find a memory trigger to cause a symptom, it is withdrawal related. Those are the symptoms that can be pushed aside without examination. Triggers that arise from a past experience should be examined to understand the trigger, but not dwelled on. It’s hard to tell the difference, it takes a lot of uncomfortable self examination, but it gives you a lot of power over your symptoms in the end.
December 1, 2012 at 5:51 am
do you know what i think it is all symptoms of withdrarawl i really dont have anything to explore in my history, in a a way it would make it easier if i did because things would then have more of a reason. after such an awful start in the morning, by lunchtime and through to bed time i was absolutley fine, the way i would like to be for life, it is the erraticness that makes it soooo hard. inf act npath you were quoted on the facebook page i follow called recovery road, the comments were v ery complimentary about your blog and they were saying you should be published!! anyway my thinking yesterday was that if i can successfully distract myself (somethimes not all the times) does that mean that because i can distract myself there isnt really a problem and i manifest itm it is kind of what comes first the egg or the chicken, do i feel awful because i am thinking about feeling horrible or do i feel horrible and then it starts the whole horrible trail of feelings and thoughts. My opinion and what it feels like is that i will be absolutley fine and then be hit with bad feelings even if i am not thinking about withdrawrawl, and then after that thefeeling continues, i really don think i manaifest them as they are so real. Also people talk about acceptance and accepting the feelings rather than fighting them, well surely disstraction (like for me work and today i am strating craftingto try and help) is not accepting the feelings or is it accepting the feelings and choosing to then try and forget them. Anyway here is hoping today isnt too bad, felt doom this morning at 6am but not anxious, oh the joy of the symptoms x
December 1, 2012 at 10:48 am
Thanks, it’s nice to know that what I’m writing is helping people. I didn’t realize that some of it had made it to Facebook.
I’m torn about the distraction versus confrontation ideas concerning withdrawal symptoms. I can completely understand the desire to distract from them. At the same time, I think it’s helpful to be mindful about withdrawal symptoms, and try to ascertain what’s causing them. I try to do both. When symptoms were too much to deal with, I needed distractions. When I can, though, I try to engage symptoms. Even though they are caused by drug withdrawal, symptoms feed on our inner mental life, using memories and emotions as fuel. It may not be something historical. I think it’s similar to the way we process life events in dreams. Withdrawal distorts our everyday experiences. Instead of dreaming about flying after watching birds, we feel like they’re pulling our hair out.
I think that considered mindfulness builds a foundation that lasts beyond withdrawal. I can feel myself becoming more mindful of my interactions with other people as a result of the introspection I’ve done during withdrawal. It gets easier to process withdrawal symptoms as the process goes on, too. At first, I think distraction is a great strategy.
December 1, 2012 at 12:34 pm
you reallly should check out the facebook page it is very good for when the struggles are hard. at the momenet for me i think distraction is the best way im going to start sewing this evening as distracting myself with work is turning me into a workaholic! x
November 28, 2012 at 4:32 am
Npanth, just another question, why is the depression from withdrawal worse in the morning and during the day than it is at night?
November 28, 2012 at 10:43 am
I call it the Paxil Alarm Clock. No matter how late I went to sleep, I would always be woken up at 4AM by an overwhelming sense of panic, fear, dread, and depression.
Symptoms tend to be more pronounced in the morning because of the Cortisol cycle. In nature, Cortisol acts to wake us up from sleep, and in the Fight or Flight system. During withdrawal, Cortisol spikes and plummets instead of following the regular cycle. It amplifies all aspects of withdrawal, depression, depersonalization, anxiety, panic.
As the day goes on, cortisol levels drop, which diminishes the panic. Cortisol reaches its lowest level at night, just before we go to sleep. It’s the body’s way of allowing us to go to sleep. That cycle of morning panic that diminishes over the course of the day should start to return to normal as time goes by. It’s hard facing the day when you start it that way, but eventually normal sleep and instinctual responses should return.
November 28, 2012 at 11:14 am
Great, thanks again npanth!
November 28, 2012 at 2:25 pm
I’m having some interesting symptoms. Not sure how I would characterize them, but maybe some of you can help me do that. I reinstated 5 mg of Citalopram(Celexa) almost a month ago after trying to taper off unsuccessfully. I’m sure my nervous system was going through a very scary time, and when I reinstated I started feeling better almost immediately, like within the same day that I took a dose. Since then I’ve kind of wanted to put the episode behind me. I think this is pretty typical for me – go through something traumatic, and then move on, as far away from it as possible. I have been watching this board, and trying to relate, but I almost feel like the alcoholic that has been “cured” – even though I know this isn’t possible. I don’t want to chime in because I want to think that I’m all solved and better and resolved. I have a spouse who is as supportive as he can be, but he comes from a family that doesn’t really know how to support people who are in pain, whether emotional or physical. When I get a cold, I’d rather be left alone than have him around – he’s a “buck up and pull yourself up by your bootstraps” kind of guy. We’re working on it. 🙂 Anyway, having him around makes me want to pretend even more that things are fine. But I keep having symptoms, on a much smaller scale, but they are there, and they are frustrating. For example, (and I’m really glad you posted about the Paxil alarm clock, because this may be what’s happening) I am responsible for getting my 4 and 6 year old up and out of bed, lunches made, and off to school in a timely fashion every morning. I’m a stay at home mom, so I signed up for this. But I’m the farthest from “morning person” that you can imagine. I stay up til midnight on a regular basis, and then struggle to get up at 7:30 which is sort of the absolute latest that I can and still get close to making it to school at 8:45. I don’t know what the hell is broken about our morning routine and it probably doesn’t factor in here. But this morning I felt so angry again – it was almost close to what I felt when I went off the Citalopram entirely a month ago. This anger hasn’t been as bad in the last month, at least not on a regular basis. This morning I just felt so deflated and angry with myself, and with my son, for being late to school again. It’s a small issue in the scheme of life, but it sets me off. I start feeling bad about myself for pushing him physically into the school, and then when he was embarassed for being late, I just kept pushing him into the classroom, trying to get him to sit down and “be normal” like all the other kids. I am afraid I’m harming him emotionally with my anger/anxiety. As I drove home, I thought about coping mechanisms. I know that this is probably going to continue as I continue weaning off the Citalopram. I have it in my calendar to drop my dosage by 10% at the beginning of December. How do you know when it’s the right time to do this? Do you want until you aren’t having Waves? Or do you just do it and see how it goes, and go back up in dosage if necessary?
Oh, and I’m sorry for the long post, but there are some other things going on. It’s dreary here in Portland right now. And my motivation is just sunk. For awhile before I started tapering, I was in a manic “fix my house” mode. I lost weight this summer, and did projects around here. Now I feel like that time is gone. At least for awhile. I have been eating to deal with anxiety and stress. I gained 8 lbs in the last little while. Ugh. Aren’t the rest of you reporting that you are losing weight? I feel like I’m beating my body up – trying to manage emotions through eating because it calms me down and gives me endorphins or whatever. As I write this, I feel tremendous pressure to starve myself back into a smaller form – and I feel once again let down by myself that I’ve let this happen. Yesterday and the day before I felt like I had to nap during the day, instead of being productive and doing laundry/dishes/projects around my house, and instead of working out. I’m letting myself down and feeling bad about it, but I’m not stopping it. Does anyone else do this? How do you get yourself out of it?
Here’s what I’m trying:
– Making an appt with a naturopath who works with people on weight issues, supposedly from a spiritual level
– Making an appt with an acupuncturist who works with emotional issues like stress and anxiety. My friend has gone to her and says that when she hits certain spots it just makes her sob. I’m not looking forward to that, but the release would probably be helpful.
– Trying meditation. I’m hoping this will help on many levels. Someone recommended Deepak Chopra. Any other suggestions would be appreciated.
– Trying to journal, and use CBT to fight back against the negative messages I’m sending myself. Trying to talk through some of the anxiety/panic/self recrimination.
Anyway, love to hear any of your thoughts, and thanks for listening.
Sarah
November 28, 2012 at 3:52 pm
When I reinstated Paxil, I went through a very similar experience. The worst symptoms disappeared overnight. As time went by, though, I realized that there were lingering problems. They were much lighter than they had been before, but they were the same symptoms. Instead of desperate depression, I would just feel uneasy. The fact that the symptoms largely disappeared after reinstating points strongly to withdrawal. Just like an addict getting their fix, we provided our brains with the drug they were missing.
I’ve been in a bit of a funk as far as housework and motivation is concerned, too. My house isn’t as clean as it should be. I had an interesting experience when I was entirely off Paxil, though. I had a sudden surge of motivation. I cleaned the house, started moving again. All of that seemed to slip away once I reinstated. I think it’s an effect of the drug. There’s a fine balance between procrastination and drug induced procrastination, but I think it’s partly due to the drug. The inertia it has created in my life will take some effort to overcome in the future, but I’m not as concerned that it is an intrinsic fault as I was before.
People react individually to withdrawal. Some people lose weight, others gain weight. I think the people who lose weight gained it from the drug in the first place. I wouldn’t worry too much about it. Consider it a temporary state that’s affecting you because of withdrawal. It’s very hard not to take the way you feel right now and project that into the future, but it is a temporary thing caused by the drug.
I have several people in my life who give the “get over it, mind over matter” kind of advice. After going through withdrawal, I don’t think I’ll ever tell another person to just suck it up. You can’t really just get over it when your whole mental landscape is being reordered. There’s no context for us to just turn around and fix what’s ailing us. It does get better, though. It takes time… sometimes it feels like too much time, but it will get better.
I think anything you try to help with withdrawal will be a positive. The most important thing to do is try, not necessarily succeed. It may sound strange, but the effort has a bigger impact on your recovery than success. I think that’s because withdrawal is about turning small victories into larger ones, while accepting the inevitable setbacks. The cyclical nature of withdrawal means that it’s a “two steps forward, one step back” kind of thing. Success can be diminished by setbacks, but effort will prepare you to turn those setbacks into foundations for future success.
December 1, 2012 at 6:46 pm
I just had that “one step back”. Yesterday was almost “normal”!! I was thrilled that the noises in my head were few and fading. Today they are back with a vengence, stomach bad, horrible headache.. So frustrating. If I had known then what I know now, I NEVER would have taken Pristiq. Horrible stuff, and should NOT be given for “temporary” depression. I have never been depressed before, even after being diagnosed with breast cancer and going through 2 surgeries, 6 months of chemo and 6 weeks of radiation. But I was having major marriage problems, lost my job and both sons were unemployed. It was just too much to handle so my Dr put me on the Pristiq. Never again!!
December 1, 2012 at 7:50 pm
Sue,
I’m sorry you had such a bad day. I hope tomorrow is better. I woke up happy today, which hasn’t been the case for awhile, so I’m hopeful that my body is working through this. Hope yours does too.
Your comment brings up an interesting question for me. I wonder if I would ever go back on an antidepressant? It’s dumb to play the “what if” game but occasionally I wonder “what if my mom died? Would I go back on them then?” And I also wonder if they do work for some people and not others? Or are they just sort of bad for everyone but provide enough benefit that many people overlook the side effects? I am afraid that I’ve gone from being a believer in “better living through chemistry” to more of a natural solutions person. I would probably try counseling, meditation, exercise, and any foods/herbs that could help before I went back on antidepressants again. That is, if I ever get off them. 🙂
Love to hear anyone else’s thoughts.
December 3, 2012 at 3:45 am
I already said this elseware on this site i had bad witdrawl from lexapro but discovered
5thp suplements and st johns wort these stopped the sympthoms of withdrawl by about 90%. im of the lexapro now for about 2 months and all i take now is 1 300mg st johns worth 3 times a day.
when i went to my doc orignally i asked him about st johns wort and he fogged me of with some crap about them having no medicinal benifit. so he forced lexapro on me.
im from ireland where st johns wort was freely available, now you need a prescription for them (the drugs companays telling the government what to do)
if its of no medical benifit why is it on precription ?????????
phiilp
December 2, 2012 at 1:46 am
I’ve met many people who have become very much against SSRI after going through withdrawal. Personally, I can’t foresee a situation where I would start taking them again. I can’t think of many things that are as traumatic as SSRI withdrawal. If the solution is worse than the problem, it’s not a solution at all. Still, I wouldn’t vehemently dissuade anyone from taking them. A friend of mine started taking an SSRI a couple months ago. I talked to him about my experiences, tried to tell him what he might have to go through someday. It feels like a balancing act for me. I don’t want to see anyone else go through it, but I also don’t want to force an opinion on someone else. That’s how you lose friends, I think.
I’m starting to view SSRI as a broad acting drug used to treat a discrete problem. The analogy I keep thinking about is a painkiller. We take painkillers to treat a sore back, for instance. The drug doesn’t just take away pain in the back, it numbs the entire body, and covers back pain while doing it. In the same way, SSRI suppress a broad range of mental processes in the hope of treating the narrow symptoms of OCD, depression, etc. While that may be an effective strategy for treating physical pain, it’s not nearly as effective for mental issues.
December 2, 2012 at 7:18 am
hi sue, im sorry about your struggle, i too had a nearly notmal day last week which gives a glimmer of hope and then book back to square one!!! but at least we knoe this is what happens and we are not the first to experience it, absolutley horrible thoough. and i too never had depression before taking AD’s, as npath says we are building our foundations for a new loevly drug free life, i was really hoping this would be the first christmas in 15 years that i would have a clear head but i guess it is not to be and will put all my efforts into thinking posotive thoughts at making next christmas the one to remember!!!! good luck lovey x
December 1, 2012 at 7:52 pm
Notjustamomblog is actually Sarah. I have no idea why WordPress makes me log in and then uses my blog name. Argh.
December 1, 2012 at 8:40 pm
Sarah, My husband and I are going through counseling, so depression gets talked about quite often. I really do not feel the drugs had much affect on me, I really didn’t feel that different after taking them, and had no side effects while taking them. It is only getting off that I have had trouble. I wish now that I had never agreed to take them. I usually take the tough it out route, and live a pretty healthy lifestyle. Lots of fruits and veggies and organic whenever I can. I just want this horrible stuff out of my system! I don’t mean that no one should ever take antidepressants, far from it! I know several people that would not be able to function without them, they are lifesavers in some cases. It just isn’t right for me. I am still on Wellbutrin, and when i am through this, I will think about getting off those too.
December 2, 2012 at 7:38 am
hey sarah and others, i too had a good day last week and then boom old feelings back its just the waves and windows, and then today i dont fell too bad but am literally on the edge of my seat waiting to feel bad again and trying my hardest to prevent it but know i have no way i can stop the bad feelings. I understand the nature of this withdrarawl it is just so horrible. I too wish i never took the drugs especially paxil that i was on for 12 years (8 months off all drugs as we speak!! wish I could rejoice this) I have become a massive follower of natural foods, raw foods, no processed and although I am making myself so much healthier unfortunatley it does nothing for my head, and i know time is the only thing that will heal my head! I have also become a hatter of AD’s, I had a dream 2 nights ago that I took 1 paxil tablet and I can honestley describe it as a nightmare!! I do try and tell people about my struggle but most people on AD’s dont worry about the day they will come off or have any intention ofever coming off them, my father in law died last year still on anti depressants after being on them for 15 years, he would never come off them, everyone thought they were what kept him sane!!! I have read a lot about grief as i too worry that is someone close to me died would I have to go back on drugs, but everyone knows, it is a proven science through evolution that grief fades, thats why we talk about the stages, adn a lot of people on the withdrarawl sites say that this is worse than grief, funnily enough I coped really well with my father in laws passing and eneded up arranging and dealing with the whole thing, now 18 months on my mother in law has not resorted to anti depressants and is happy and i can genuinely say that, obviuosly not all the time, but she is very well!! My dad had a bit of a mid life crisis when he turned 60 and took AD’s for the first time in his life and was on them for 6 months, they fixed the problem and he came off them easily over a month and not at 66 is happy as anything and drug free, I really think short time use isnt the problem, I think its the over 2 year and above usgae that is the problem, in total i was on ssris for 12 solid years and trycillics for 3 years before that all becuase of panic attacks at university, i never had a head prblem, ever , no depression just anxiety, and i was smoking so much pot i am sure now it was that!! i swear when i have kids, if they go near pot of AD’s unless it is the last option i will go crazey!! There is a famous tv doctor here in the UK who goes on tv and says he is on AD’s and will have to be for the rest of his life as he has a chemical imbalance, I jsy cant see that it could be good for you to put drugs in your body everyday, I know doctors say diabetics have to take insulin but actually diabetics dont need to take insulin in most cases if the controlled their diet, so maybe a chemical imbalance doesnt have to be treated with drugs if it was controlled with diet and talk therapy, anyway I am off for a walk dear friends to try and move on from this fear of feeling bad! x
December 2, 2012 at 7:40 am
i never had depression until I was on AD’s x
December 2, 2012 at 1:59 pm
Same here emma,people with PTSD are for the most part misdiagnosed , our symptoms closely mimic people who are depressed or bi polar,hence we get the wrong treatment and a lot worse before we are finally, if were lucky get the right diagnoses,but by that time we are well on are way to personal hell.I was not in the least depressed ,but was treated as so
and when treated for depression,my condition only worsened compounding an already miss trust for Doctors because I felt they missed something or I was dying and they could do nothing about it.
i still don’t trust psychs and I never will again,even the last one I saw,made me uncomfortable, not her fault but I am not as gullible as I use to be.
Jay
December 3, 2012 at 3:56 am
i do belive in a few years it will all be exposed, well probabley more like 20 years but one day it will beome common knowledge that these drugs can really damage you!! x
December 3, 2012 at 8:03 am
ok so today and yesterday I hav developed a twitch, it is almost comical, just under my eye, i am posotive this is neurons rewiring!!! i weirdley dont feel to bad but fel really trippy today, like shakey adn frazzled all very strange!! thesed drugs are crazey how can they be responsible for soooooo much! I also need to get out of the habit of coming on here everyday listing my symptoms, not sure if it is helping or not! x
December 3, 2012 at 8:39 am
I know with me, my worst symptom is that every minute of every day I am checking how I feel, I am questioning myself the whole time, I am feeling low, is this the withdrawal, I am feeling anxious, is this the withdrawal, I am feeling tired, is this the withdrawal, it’s a constant battle each day not to obsessively think how I am feeling, I know it will reduce in time but it just seems so heightened at the moment
December 3, 2012 at 11:21 am
when we feel fine though we dont question our feelings so it will lessen, please forgive my bad spelling, the post types slower than me so I cannt go back and correct, x
December 3, 2012 at 1:54 pm
quote”
ok so today and yesterday I hav developed a twitch, it is almost comical, just under my eye, i am posotive this is neurons rewiring!!! i weirdley dont feel to bad but fel really trippy today, like shakey adn frazzled all very strange!! thesed drugs are crazey how can they be responsible for soooooo much! I also need to get out of the habit of coming on here everyday listing my symptoms, not sure if it is helping or not! x
end quote”
emma, list everything your going through,it helps people who are going through the same thing,really everybody who has a
symptom that they think may or may not be related should post.
In the mean time,I stopped taking the small amount of luvox I was taking against my new Psychs advice,because I was
reacting to it big time,I looked up the most serious side effects and the ones I was having called for immediate intake and
call your Dr, 6 days later I am feeling better and the GI problems have returned , but not as bad,no more feeling of
fear,anxiety and the feeling of passing out has gone.I still have a little bit of off balance but that gets better everyday.
It’s amazing how just a little bit of luvox could make me so crazy,I new it was the luvox when I went from 6mgs to 12mgs
the next few days the symptoms escalated and I new then that I had to get off it.
I will continue to take my Xanax as prescribed for now, when I get stabilized ,I will start a very slow taper,I don’t care if it
takes a year or more,I now talk to myself and repeat”I am going to get better it’s just a matter of time”,I am going to tell
myself this everyday and will not stop even when I get better.
Hang in there,I can see the change and I saw what self medicating can do,I’m going to tough it out this time,hopefully
with a little talk therapy.
JVBSR
December 3, 2012 at 11:12 pm
I’ve had the twitching eyes, too. It’s really a strange symptom. For me, it varied a bit from time to time. Sometimes, it was my eyelids that twitched, sometimes it was the eye itself. The eye twitching made reading very difficult. Everything I looked at just started shaking. It went away after a day or two, which I’m very grateful for. I’m glad that the luvox anxiety is fading. That drugged anxiety is really hard to deal with. You have the right approach, though. No matter how long it takes, I’m determined to get off Paxil. It’s going a lot slower than I would like, but it’s going, and that’s the important thing.
Emma, I know what you mean. These drugs create such a feeling of relative emotions, it’s hard to remember how I felt before, what the differences are. I really have to delve into my emotions and thoughts to tell the difference. I don’t want to lose that perspective, though. I think it’s important to hold onto the improvements I’ve made while tapering off Paxil, not forget what I’ve accomplished. What we’ve accomplished 🙂
December 4, 2012 at 5:39 am
Thanks Emma, I am looking forward to the day where I feel better and don’t have to question it x
December 4, 2012 at 9:52 am
Hi npanth, do you have a recommendation for a weighing scale for the pills?
December 4, 2012 at 11:45 pm
I’m eyeballing the pills after I cut them and going by the letter markings on the pills, which is kind of a dumb thing to do, but it’s going pretty well, so far. I’ve talked to a couple people who like this scale.
http://www.amazon.com/American-Weigh-Gemini-20-Portable-Milligram/dp/B0012TDNAM
There are a couple ways to get precise measurements. You can crush the pills, then add the dust to the scale until you reach the amount you want. The disadvantage to that method is that the drug is absorbed more quickly than it normally would be. You can also cut the pills and then file them down to a precise amount that you get from the scale.
You can find the appropriate amount to weigh for by weighing full pills and taking the average between them. there are slight variations between pills, so you have to find an average weight for the whole pill. Then you can reduce that amount by a percentage.
December 4, 2012 at 12:58 pm
not bad today apart from this m orning bad anxiety and few blips in the day but not too bad!! MY SYMPTOMS ARE, brain fog but not confused just not feeling right in my head, near insane sometimes, lump in my brain like if i sliced my head open cleaned out my brain and put it back all would be fine, tight feeling in head, cognitive problems are my worst symptoms, I am just so aware of my brain it is horrible, depersonalisation, derealisation, anxiety every morning 5 am, panic being in confined places or places I dont know, scared of everything, and sometimes just sad, but listing all these I can still say I am not depressed I am just not right, I am only 36 and want to start living my life not counting everyday until bedtime so I can switch off x
December 4, 2012 at 11:57 pm
The paxil alarm clock. I hated that feeling of jolting out of bed every morning, looking for something that wasn’t there. It lingered longer than a nightmare would, and only faded slowly. It’s gotten much better, though. I sleep normally, even when I have experiences that would have given me bad dreams during the worst of withdrawal.
It’s really weird how withdrawal makes us so sensitive to our brains. that scraped out feeling, the fuzzy dice hanging from our brains. The brain itself doesn’t have any nerves. Surgeons don’t need to anesthetize the brain when they do open brain surgery because it’s not necessary. The pain of a headache is transposed from veins in other parts of the head. It’s really strange that the brain gives off so many sensations during withdrawal.
December 5, 2012 at 4:03 pm
I meant to post this this morning , I read somewhere on here that someone was having brain zaps while trying to go to sleep or when he/she was in a type of half sleep mode,well this morning it happened to me, the alarm went off at 5:45am I reached over and turned it off,rolled back over to just get a few more zzzz when all of a sudden it hit me.
It felt like a bolt of electricity went through my whole body and it actually was terrifying because I thought I was having a seizure of some kind,needless to say this set me up for a really bad day and it ain’t over yet.
This has got to be the scariest symptom yet ,and now I dread going to sleep or waking up to another one.
has anybody else experienced this?
JVBSR
December 6, 2012 at 12:06 am
Brain zaps are really one of the hardest symptoms to deal with. They come on with little warning, and make any movement painful. The good part of it is that brain zaps usually aren’t a long term symptom. Some people experience them for a prolonged time, but most people get past it in a week or so. It may come back, but it’s cyclical, not chronic. It’s one of the symptoms of waves, so it comes and goes like other symptoms. It should get better over time. I get mild dizzy symptoms sometimes, but it’s not brain zaps anymore. I hope it goes away for you soon.
December 6, 2012 at 4:08 am
Thank you npanth,it seems like one symptom resides and another takes it place,right now my neck muscles are so tight that you could take a baseball bat and break it over my neck and I wouldn’t feel it , I don’t know if this is a symptom or I am sleeping the wrong way,I woke up this morning at 3.am because of the pain and now I can’t get back to sleep,it’s gonna be a long day for me.
JVBSR
December 6, 2012 at 9:22 am
Stiff neck, check 🙂 For me it’s the C1 vertebrae. right where my neck connects to my skull. It started out as joint pain, but has softened into stiffness, now. That spot is fairly stiff, as if I need to crack my neck, but never can. The stiffness is starting to go away. Hopefully, it will fade away like the other symptoms have. The pain in my shoulder, back, knees and ankle started out fairly acute, but has faded over time. I just have an achy shoulder left from all that at this point.
What I’ve found is that the catalog of symptoms remains fairly consistent, but which ones are prominent changes over time. I had a continuous runny nose for months. It wasn’t painful, just annoying. That symptom went away about 8 months ago. In the last month or so it’s come back again. It’s not nearly as bad as it was before. The hard part about some of these symptoms is determining whether they’re withdrawal related or not. My runny nose may just be a new winter allergy, or it could be an allergy exacerbated by withdrawal, or it could be withdrawal. It’s hard to tell. Stiff muscles are common in withdrawal, but they can be caused by sleeping position, too. If it lingers and fades slowly, I’d say it’s related to withdrawal. If it fades quickly, then it’s probably a regular stiff muscle.
December 6, 2012 at 4:29 am
Oh Jay I really feel for you and the ongoing changes i think thought the more symtoms, as horrific as they are, the more you have the more repairing is taking place. This morning I woke up at 5 30 am again really anxios and now at 8 am i feel so sad really really sad, other than cognitive brain feelings this is the hardest thing for me to handle as I worry so much maybe I am depressed, today i am so sad and angry that i still feel awful after all this time. I said to my husband today in bed one day i will just wake up and get up, not think about withdrarawl or even if I do i will be able to say bad feelings arent there and get on with it, I dont wish to forget about withdrarawl i just wish to not be suffering with it, I dont care if every day i think about what a bad time it was as long as i feel better Npath when you paxil alarm clock weaned off was that because you reinstated? do you think at 8 months i might be near the half way point god i hope so, no one said it better than when they said things can only get better x
December 6, 2012 at 7:14 am
Hi emma, I was worried you weren’t talking to me anymore.
I’m hoping one day that we can all look back and say wow,we did it.
If these symptoms are a sign of of healing,then I’m well on my way lol
I took a couple of Advil for my neck muscles and dosed off for an hour.
Their a little better, but I hate taking otc drugs because I am so sensitive to them.
well I;m off to work and it’s gonna be a long day,hopeful tonight I will get some sleep.
Feel better.
Jay
December 6, 2012 at 4:37 pm
of course not jay!! we are all in this together!!! X
December 6, 2012 at 9:41 am
It’s very hard to remember withdrawal in detail. I keep a journal, write here, and think about it a lot, but some of it fades over time, anyway. I think it’s a coping mechanism that the mind uses to protect itself from traumatic memories.
The paxil alarm clock went away in a very subtle way. I just realized one day that I hadn’t woken up with panic and dread in a long time. I think it faded out. One morning it would happen, the next it wouldn’t. I didn’t really recognize the pattern until it wasn’t happening any more. Whether you reinstate or stick it out, that morning panic should fade away. I think the difference between tapering or cold turkey is the severity of symptoms. I may still be getting the paxil alarm clock, it’s just so subtle that it’s below my threshold of awareness. Most of the other symptoms work like that. I still get the symptoms that I recognize as withdrawal related, they’re just milder because I’m tapering slowly. My theory is that the brain adjusts to the lack of the drug at a relatively fixed rate. That rate corresponds with the 10% every 4-6 weeks schedule of slow tapering. In slow tapering, I get symptoms when I don’t match my tapering schedule closely to the process of weaning that’s happening in my brain. Whether that’s because I’ve tapered too soon or too late, symptoms become more pronounced when I’m out of phase with my brain’s efforts to wean off the drug. I wish I could pat my brain on the back for all the effort it’s doing to get me off Paxil 🙂
December 6, 2012 at 12:04 pm
I wasn’t on Paxil but I had the exact same anxious, terrifying and confused feeling every morning too. I can tell you that it does go away eventually. While I still experience lots of symptoms of withdrawal, I haven’t had that horrible feeling in about a month (it’s been about 5 months since I’ve been off citalopram completely). I still have moments where I think “okay these symptoms are never going to go away and I’m just going to be like this for the rest of my life”. Then I have a good day (a window) and realize that I am getting better and it’s just going to take a LONG time. Keep pushing through and I found that coming here to ask questions really helped as well. Knowing that others have been able to move forward is very helpful.
December 6, 2012 at 4:46 pm
THANKS AGAIN GUYS, AFTER MY POST THIS MORNING I HAD A PRETTY HORRIBLE DAY BUT THIS EVENING WHILE PLAYING WITH MY NIECES I HAD 2 HOURS OF NO PROBLEMS, HOPING TOMORROW BRINGS A BETTER DAY, I HAVE BEEN READING A LOT ABOUT MEDITATION HELPING TO HEAL THE BRAIN SO I AM PLANNING ON TRYING THAT AGAIN AND REALLY STICKING TO IT!!! I HOPE THE MORNING ANXIETY WILL FAADE, STILL NO PLANS TO REINSTATE, JUST KEEP TRUCKING!! X
December 6, 2012 at 7:07 pm
I was dragging today, waking up at 3am and not being able to go back to sleep put me in a stupor ,and was very off balance,I’m lucky to have a trainee with me,with out him I would not have gotten anything done today.
npanth,here’s something else I didn’t mention,working for the RR was a very dangerous job to say the least,3 yrs after I started working for them,I had an accident involving my head and neck,I was 3 yrs into my apprenticeship program ,when a lineman dropped a 40lb chain hoist that hit me right on the top of my head from 20 feet up,I had my hard hat on,which saved my life,but I lost 13 teeth and crushed all the vertebrae in my neck,back then they didn’t save the teeth like they do today,I had to have what was left pulled by an oral surgeon,I get cortisone shots in my neck every once in awhile because I can’t move my neck,but what I am experiencing is definitely muscle pain , I should have gotten the hint then that this was not the job for me.
emma, I feel better now knowing your not mad at me,I thought I posted something that offended you,I think faster than I type and post with out proof reading,by then it’s to late because there’s no way to edit your post ,and when I read what I post,I’m thinking how did I miss that,oh well chock up another one for withdrawal.
good health everyone
JVBSR
December 6, 2012 at 7:58 pm
I recommend the Deepak Chopra meditations. I haven’t done many but those I have are very soothing.
December 7, 2012 at 12:59 am
One of the things I gleaned from withdrawal is that we can’t assume how someone else is feeling. The mix of emotions is so convoluted that a person may actually feel anger or distrust towards friends. It passes like the other symptoms. I resented my friends, who only wanted to support me, but that feeling went away like the others did. Now, I try to keep mindful of that when I talk to other people in withdrawal, and try to never take anything the wrong, or temporarily right, way.
December 6, 2012 at 10:29 pm
Well, it has been 11 days since my last pill. My ears are ringing like crazy and I am still getting the whishing sound in my head when I move, although it is less than before. But the ringing is louder! The GI problems come and go. I am so ready for this to be over. At least I can function now a little better. For a while i wasn’t driving because of the dizziness. One day at a time..
December 7, 2012 at 1:03 am
I’ve had the buzzing sounds and dizziness. They seem to be the physical counterpart to some of the emotional symptoms. They seem to attach to different symptoms in each wave, but come together. When my withdrawal symptoms started to break up, the physical symptoms became precursors to the emotional symptoms. First, I would get GI problems, buzzing, dizziness, then a couple days later, I’d get the anxiety, etc. Hopefully, it will start to break up for you soon. I hated that dizzy, whooshy feeling.
December 7, 2012 at 7:30 am
Good morning,I’m trying to keep a positive attitude, right now my Wife is in Fla.,her step mother is dieing of cancer.My wife lost her biological mother when she was 9 yrs old to the same cancer,her father is going through this again and is happy that his daughters have given him the support he needs.I can’t imagine going through that once let alone twice.
Last night I slept a little better, but I had to pop an Xanax CR because my brain was racing like crazy and I needed to get some sleep.I’m still having the ringing in the ears and the dizziness,I know I’m going to have it the moment I wake up,I have a feeling like my head is not quite right,so I am mindful that this is what it is.
Have a nice day
JVBSR
December 7, 2012 at 9:05 am
hey jay you have not offended me at all, we are all trying to help each other!! I appreciate all comments. hey today I slept to 7am!! still felt awful when i woke but didnt wake at 5am. My husband and I are going to move house in a few weeks which i think will helkp me as we live with a lodger and it really frustrates me which is again heightening my anxiety! i am looking forward to it being just us and no one else in our house, also our house is really dark and we are going to move somewhere much lighter. I am really worried at the moment that where i am starting a new very senior role with a new company in Janauary I will be doing a lot of travel in airports and on the london underground (subway), and when I feel bad withdrarawl symptoms, sad, brain fog, lump in head, deporsanilastion the fear oof being on the underground or in an airport freaks me out, for example when i am through the the security at the airport i feel anxious because i cant get out if i want to, tubes arent as bad as i would get off at the next stop and then go out, it is almost like claustrophobic, but i feel fine when no withdrarawl i have absolutley no problem with it, I am so worried that i will still be suffering withdrarawl symptoms, in my new job and i will constantley be having to do these things that lead to panic attacks, I am aware that when i am through withdrarawl i will be fine and be able to handle this, but I am looking at some coping techniques to get me through but it is a scary thought, I have never had to to leave a place because i feel i am going to have a panic attack and i dont avoid it as avoidance would lead to bigger problems, i can manage to calm myself down, and the bad thing is i am fully aware that i do it to myself by thinking am i going to panic, i need to know where the exits are at all times, but as i say when i am not in withdrarawl i am not that bothered, id dont love being in airports but i can handle it. i hope i cope and i hope this is heightened because on what i am going through and that thisnt is a whole new problem i have developed! does anyone else feel like this x
December 7, 2012 at 4:32 pm
Emma.I think the problem we have is,people even today look at people with mental illness as some kind of threat that if they get to close their gonna catch something,so because of this we are embarrassed to ask for help or tell anyone we have a disorder that a lot of people cannot comprehend and we are afraid of what people will think of us ,so now we start holding it in and that is when all the real problems start,not wanting to have a panic attack in public or at our jobs or anywhere people will see us ,because oh my God these people won’t help me or, I’ll never be able to face or go there ever again,because of what happened.
I think society needs to be educated that metal disabilities are also physical and not just in our heads.
I don’t look at my disability as mental,I look at it as being life altering,I was not this way before I got hurt and I am not responsible for what happened to me,I did not cause it and I certainly did not want it,it was how I was treated afterwards that really has me where I am today,I use to laugh at people in school who took psych 101,now I wish I had taken a few courses myself,because having a better understanding of how our psyche works would have given us ammunition to help us cope with what we are going through now.
I’m having little windows of feeling good and this is proof that if you can have them for a few weeks ,hours, days even minutes that it’s possible to have them all the time,it’s just gonna take awhile to get there.remember we didn’t get where we are now over night.
Be good,
Jay
December 9, 2012 at 12:15 pm
thanks jay, I agree with everything you say, been having those feelings again today of maybe this is just me and this is how it is and how my brain work as none of my symptoms are physical they are all pshychological, but there are as you say windows of normal which must be proof that one day it will all be normal, my head feels horrible today and i couldnt even put into words what the feelings in my head are like, it is undescribable. 8 months one week, my gosh who would have known how horrible this is, maybe one day we can all rejoice together, Jay I am so happy for you that you are starting to have windows, that is amazing from where you have been. The website I use for inspiration and hope says to go with the feelings and dont try and fight them, but if you broke a leg you would do everything you could to try an reduce the pain. I would quite happily cut my head off today (again as always please dont worry i am not suicidal), heres hoping life will improve and soon!! i couldnt find the will to be like this another lifetime x
December 9, 2012 at 12:53 pm
i agree with everything you say jay. i am so glad for you that you have had some windows, i have felt soooooooo awful today that i have thought maybe this is the best it will ever get for me, however if i am getting these small windows then hopefully that must be proof that one day it will all be one big lovely window, i so hope so, i could cut my head off today it is so horrible, dont worry not suicidal, but just desperatley wanting all this to end, I am scared that all my symptoms are psychological, as in brainn fog, full head, depersonilisation derealisation, sad, anxious, that it could actually be a mental health condition rather than withdrarawl, heres hoping life will get much better, and soon, i couldnt live another lifetime like this! xxx
December 9, 2012 at 10:28 pm
I got that feeling a lot, too. It seemed like the waves were real and the windows were abnormal. It’s the opposite, though, but it’s hard to picture it any other way. I think it’s a quirk of withdrawal that makes us think like that.
December 10, 2012 at 5:07 pm
emma, i don’t think it’s psychological ,remember that the drug tricked the brain by shutting down transmitters and substituting the job with SSRI’s of it’s own,surely this is a psychical remapping and the brain compensates by shutting down what it is supposed to do naturally and learns that it can get what it wants from another source, our brains are still primitive in the respect that we only use 5 to 10% of it,what about the rest? hmm it seems to me that it will take a long time for the brain to remember the job it was supposed to do,because it was tricked in the first place, and all this symptoms we are suffering is the brain trying to get us back on the drugs,because it easier.
I look at the brain the same way I do a computer,if you setup a pc to run a certain way you have created a matrix, this matrix has all these little programs running around making sure that the original programing does what it’s supposed to,alter the program by introducing a virus and your pc starts doing crazy things, Ad’s are a virus and until there cleaned the brain will run erratic.I believe the brain will remember, a virus takes the original program and renames it and substitutes its own ,it is still there it just needs the antivirus to find it.The program is still there the brain just has to find it.
Jay
December 11, 2012 at 2:37 pm
GOOD WAY TO LOOK AT IT, i GOT THROUGH A REALLY BIG THING AT WORK TODAY THAT i HAD BEEN SO WORRIED ABOUT, i AM SO PRUD, IF I CAN DO IT IN THIS STATE THEN I BELEIVE TODAY RECOVERY IS POSSIBLE X
December 12, 2012 at 3:34 am
did affirmations at 5 am this morning when i woke up, one day closer to recover and i am healing, did it for 2 hours in bed, didnt really help but am trying to believe it! x
December 12, 2012 at 7:41 am
Rachel,I can assure you that what you are experiencing is withdrawal, I have had every symptom you describe, except the
waking up and not remembering how to talk,every body will have that one or two unique symptom/s that no one else will experience.
I can tell from my own experiences that there are a couple here that have not been mentioned that I have experienced.
We are unique even though a lot of our symptoms are the same, but in reality their intensity is based on the individual
and other stimuli that person is exposed to,don’t give up hope you have taking the first step forward by recognizing the fact that these are not common symptoms and you are not crazy,everybody here has gone or is going through the nightmare
you describe,it will get better,you just have to believe in yourself.
Jay
December 12, 2012 at 9:54 am
Hi Jay thanks so much for your reply. It helps to have people who understand and yes we’re all unique in our symptoms. Maybe people seem to have symptoms such as anxiety/depression/anger but i haven’t really had those. It’s all mostly been pysical. Possibly easier in a way to have physical symptoms as you can be more rational about them and observe them. Although as i say that i still convince myself i have various life threatening diseases as each symptom emerges. My husband always says for example ‘now rachel, if you had stomach cancer/tumour why would the pain suddenly disappear after 1 day and move to your arm?’ and i can actually laugh and say ‘yes you’re right’. I wonder how many of us actually experience this withdrawal and how many people in the future will go through this. The message isn’t really getting out how dangerous these pills are. My friend has recently been given cit and not warned about potential problems of stopping them.
December 12, 2012 at 2:41 pm
Rachel,their not going to be able to hide it much longer,I hate going legal, but a class action suit would be one way,the burden of proof would be on them to prove that AD’s are not harmful or don’t cause withdrawal,It would seem that more and more people would come out of there shells and tell their horror stories, with just the people here alone who have too many symptoms in common,it would be very hard to convince a rational person this is all in our heads,I am seeing a new psych and even she admits that withdrawal is a problem that is not understood,but like everything else the majority rules , and until more Dr,s jump on the wagon, it is up to people like us to spread the word,maybe even send signed letters to the AMA ,10’s of thousands of people can;t be having the same psychos at the same time. lol
The one thing I leaned about AD’s is that they have an analgesic effect on the body ,what would normally bother you is suppressed to a point where you really don’t let it bother you,but once you stop taking the AD’s it doesn’t take long for the aches and pains to prop up,they have always been there,but our brains through no fault of our own,were taught to ignore
them, it’s the one and only benefit I got from taking them.
Hang in there.
Jay
December 9, 2012 at 2:03 pm
I have been thinking lots this evening about the course my life has taken with drugs and i know i shouldnt fixate on it, but a lot of the time on drugs i was worse than i am now in withdrarawl. at 23 i started taking ssris, i then needed a higher dose at 26,28 then 29, I am now assuming at these points i was actually going through tolerance withdrarawl but as i was only seeing a doctor not a psychitrist they uped the dose of the drug (paxil) everytime i ever uped it i felt soooo much worse and the doctors kept saying i would feel worse before i felt better, surely that should have been a sign as to how horrible these drugs are!! I am just freaking out thinking about those times and thinking that i just wasnt right and maybe thats just how i am now, but if i think back to when i was 21 and never touched a tricylic or an ssri i was fine, no depression or anxiety, totally normal. I am petrefied that this is just me, ! x
December 9, 2012 at 2:48 pm
I seem to have taken ten steps back myself over the last two weeks and am very very scared. I feel as though I am festering inside with nothing but pain and anxiety that more than likely would kill an elephant. I have headaches most all day and everyday for now months on end. My vision is foggy along with my head, my head and face tingle so bad it hurts. It has been one year in one week from when I stopped meds. I know by reading this you are probably not reassured that this living nightmare will end and i am truelly sorry for that. I seem to be unable to enjoy almost nothing lately. Sleeping hurts waking hurts living hurts. My son performed last night and contrary to what I just wrote that did make me very happy and proud. He was actually asked to perform with the Notre Dame opera. He is 16 now and utterly fantastic in many people’s eyes not just his fathers bias love.
I am at a crossroad and don’t know what direction to take. Doctors seem to be uncap able of understand what has happened to me. Anyone that has been drug free for one year couldnt be still affected as the docs would say. Just willing this to go away in my own mind only causes more thought to what is happening in my mind. I try to keep busy and it just feels like I have become OCD. I am afraid to take another medicine because of bad side affects etc. I truelly feel I have no options right now. I don’t have any clue what even to research anymore. No I am not suicidal either. I would give my life savings to have this go away. Sorry!!
Do you think a doctor would agree to reinstate a medicine knowing that the goal is to taper off of it extremely slow like 1 plus years?
December 9, 2012 at 6:01 pm
Dano,you are going to go through hell before you get to heaven,as the song goes,I have been up and down so much in the last 6 yrs ,it’s hard for me tell what is withdrawal and what is drug reaction.
The last 3 yrs are different from the first 3 ,that I am having symptoms I never had before in the last three.
I attribute this to multiple Psychs and and drug combinations, the only constant drug I have never changed is Xanax.
I was taking one drug and with out withdrawal put on another, I was told SSRi’s are all the same,I can see why I was having all these problems and how my brain must have gone into hyperactive just trying to understand why it was getting hit from every direction,it’s amazing I’m still here.
Psychs are in my opinion, no more knowledgeable than we are,they study it, we live it,if we had the education to go with it,we wouldn’t need them at all,if we all had a PHD in BIO chemistry, and had an understanding of how these drugs work we never would have taken them,because of ignorance and the need for help we put our lives in their hands and when things go wrong and they are at a loss to tell us why,it berates us even more, we are now on our way to the road of miss trust ,even if the Dr/s are good we still have that doubt in our heads.
I don’t trust Psychs anymore and have been educating myself about the brain,how it works,there are so many factors involved with just every day living,that when you throw in AD’s in the mix,it alters your perception on life.
There was a time when I think these drugs helped me,but I should have weened off of them when I was back to my old self,if you want to call it that.
Circumstances beyond my control and a Psych who told me I could never get off them led me down this road I am on right now,I know there is an exit somewhere,I just have to find it.
I talk to myself everyday,I tell myself I’m going to get better and I believe it,I have to otherwise my only recourse is to go back on them,and at this point I can’t tolerate anything I’m put on.
Hang in there,that’s what everybody here has told me,and don’t try to medicate yourself unless you really know what your doing,this will set you back big time,trust me I know.
I found a Psych that is some what willing to do it my way,If I fail I will have to do it her way and that is not going to happen.
I am starting to see windows,even if their only for an hour,it gives me hope,you have to take it window by window.
I believe that nobody gets over withdrawal in a very short time,it took us a long time to get this way and it’s gonna take along time to get back.
Emma,hang in there,I’m sure that your windows are going to get longer and better,I don’t ask for a lot so I don’t get made when I have short windows,but it does show me that I am healing,regardless of the set backs they do come.
Jay
December 9, 2012 at 4:23 pm
i think you could reinstate but i would say you have done a year if you can get by in life everyday without ending it, then keep going, that sounds rich coming from me who is doubting withrarawl but there is a website recovery-road.org and the most common length of withdrarawl is 6 to 18 months and could be longer but it is very convincing of the fact that it can take a long long time. I ve always said if i dont feel significantly better after a year off (me 8 months so far) i would try a drug again, but i dontt think drugs didn cure everything anywya, please read all the info on that website dano it is very reassuring!! hang in there, i know how you feel but reading your posts you have had windows! read the recover-road.org!! x
December 9, 2012 at 6:17 pm
Thanks for the help guys. We are decorating the tree and its a nice diversion. Let us all please get threw this.
December 9, 2012 at 10:37 pm
withdrawal can be a much more long term thing than most doctors or manufacturers will accept. Many just go by the half life of the drugs, which are normally just a day or tow, as the length of withdrawal. I know several people who experienced extended withdrawal but have recovered. It can take much longer than we thought or expected, but it does happen. In a weird irony, it takes longer than we think, but happens faster that we believe it will. I hope you feel better soon. Withdrawal has a strange way of breaking up with little notice. You could enter a prolonged window tomorrow or next week. That’s how many of my symptoms acted. I had bad dizziness, sleeplessness, and morning anxiety. For each of these symptoms, I just woke up one morning and they had largely dissipated. It’s hard to describe, harder to explain, but symptoms can just turn themselves on and off.
December 10, 2012 at 5:49 am
i really hope so because this morning i wasnt just super anxious at 5am i also had horrible thoughts at the same time and i actually thought about reinstating today which i have never once considered, i think it was because we were with friends at the weeknd and my girlfriend has been on antidepreessants ( very small dose) and hormones as they say her depression is hoormone related and she is sooooo fine, and has been for years she has a great quality of life, it made me think maybe i just need the drugs in a small dose, the best i felt in years was when i was on very small doses of venlafaxine during my ridiculous 1 month taper off of it. I am kind of using it as a back up in my head that if it ever ever gets so bad that i think i just cant take it anymore i have that option, the psych told me if i was bad off drugs he would try me on trycillics again. I pretty much decided i am going to give it until june and see if i am slighgtley improved by then (as we go on holiday 2 months after and i dont want to waist another holiday feeling horrible!) by then i would have got to my ideal weight, and have been doing my new job for 6 months. i also was an outpatient on a very famous clinic for depression and drugs over her 18 months ago, and i remember when i was there one of the psychitrists was so anti use of drugs a lot of the patients didnt want to see him but i am going to track him down as i think someone like that will believe in withdrarawl and will help with my situation, i swear if i saw a psychitrist who said what i was going through is totally normal for the amount of drugs i was on and the time i was on them, and encouraged me that it will get better (as we all encourgae each other) it would make me keep going, its like i need to hear it from a professional. wish me luck in trying to find him. Npath did your withdrarawl symptoms become less when you reinstated, is that what you are saying, if so dont you just want to stay on the drugs and just feel ok? because that would say to me that your withdrarawl got better because of reinstating not because of time. After starting to write this i am positive i will not reinstate but just want to hurry up and get better, i have always been a worrier so is this just me for life. I keep reading quotations saying life is too short, and you only get one chance whic A0 makes me worry about dieing and B) makes me freak out that I am waisting time feeling bad when life is slipping away from me, i wont be young forever and these drugs have already stollen 15 years of my life!! x
December 10, 2012 at 9:27 am
After I crashed, reinstating did make my symptoms diminish. It took about 3 months for me to stabilize and continue tapering. It’s the same reason that someone on a narcotic feels better when they start taking the drug again. I would consider taking a small dose of Paxil for the long term if the costs weren’t so high. When I think about how I was on Paxil, I realize that I wasn’t really living, I was just existing. My weight exploded, I stopped doing the things I loved, I took my job for granted, I started drinking. The only difference between the spiral of withdrawal and the spiral of Paxil is that I’m much more aware of it off the drug. On Paxil, my life was falling apart, but I didn’t even notice it. Now that I’m getting close to being off the drug, I’m much more aware of the interactions I have. I pay attention in conversations, actually listen. I would never have considered writing these kind of articles while on Paxil.
It’s even more apparent in the ways that my friends look at me. I still can’t really get over the way they keep saying that I was so different on the drug, and seem to be coming back as I get off. I’m determined to get off Paxil. It wasn’t helping me while I was taking it, and it’s punishing me now for trying to get off it. It’s almost become an entity in its own right for me. No matter what problems develop in the future, I’m convinced that Paxil won’t help me deal with them. It will just drug me until I don’t realize they’re problems, anymore.
December 10, 2012 at 11:45 am
well that all makes sense, you will get off for sure, how much have you got left to go? I found the shrink i was looking for and i have an appoinment with him next week! x
December 10, 2012 at 1:18 pm
Does this doctor know anything about tapering and withdrawal syndrome? If so, I’d like the contact information for this list http://tinyurl.com/3zuaxo9
December 11, 2012 at 2:24 pm
i AM ASSURED HE DOES BUT ONCE I HAVE SEEN HIM I WILL ADD HIS INFO X
December 10, 2012 at 2:34 pm
I started at 20mg/day, then went up to 40mg/day after a few years. I initially tapered from 40-0mg/day over 5 months. Twice as long as my doctor recommended. I had two months without the drug, then crashed. I reinstated at 10mg/day and stayed there for 3 months. I then started tapering 10% about every 6 weeks. I’m at 6mg/day right now. I think I should be able to get to zero sometime in the middle of 2013. I’m tapering very slowly because I don’t want to have the same experience of a temporary reprieve that I did last time. This time, it’s off the drug for good 🙂
December 29, 2012 at 8:31 pm
Npath, I’ve been tapering from 10mg of paxil since February 2012 and after hitting turbulence at 5mg, I had to slow my pace. Just now I am on 2.7mg a day and continuing to drop by a maximum of 10% a month in a steady slide. In this way, I think I can get down to zero without suffering any major withdrawal issues, but I can’t put a time limit on my progress. If things get rough, I may hold the same dose for a while, and I haven’t decided how to proceed once I get to 1mg a day. As the dose drops, there comes a time when we have to speed up our taper percentage wise and/or eventually make a jump to zero, and we have to trust our own instincts as to the timing of that and have faith in the brain’s ability to handle what WD throws at it.
I’m experiencing fairly constant tinnitus/head noises and a sharp ramping up of what feels like WD-fueled anxiety and nervousness from around 8am to mid-afternoon followed by a slow fall until evening and a period of complete normality from around 10 pm to 7 am. My main methods of coping are formal and informal meditation, mindfulness, yoga, reading and keeping occupied with something that feels productive for the bulk of the day. I’m a naturally spontaneous person, but at this stage of life, I find I need to follow more a regimented existence to keep me on an even keel.
December 30, 2012 at 12:05 pm
You may wish to try 5% decreases every 2 weeks. Under 1mg, you can use liquid to continue systematic decreases. If you’re having trouble going off Paxil, I would not jump off until you’re down to less than .25mg, maybe even less than .10mg.
December 11, 2012 at 6:02 am
HI,
I’m writing in this board because I don’t know what to do. I’m 24, and am suffering since childhood from anxiety and obsessions, sometimes ocd and lately depression. A year ago I’ve tried lexapro but had side effects and stopped right away. i thought i would never consider going on ssri again, but this last year has been so sad. i’ve been so obsessive, depressed and anxious, i’ve lost all my friends who were dear to me and also some of my family support. my family really wants me to go on ssri again, to try a different one, because i seem to be unable to handle life. i’m talented and not a bad person, i think, i had a good job and good friends once. but i seem to defeat myself always, and now i feel i don’t have the power to fight anymore. i suffer and make others suffer. do you think ssri might me the right thing for me after all? is there one ssri that is considered more mild? i only want something to mellow me out a little. the guilt and agony for my past decisions, and my loneliness are so intense. i wake up terrified. thank you for listening.
December 11, 2012 at 7:26 am
That’s a hard question. I’ve become much more hesitant to recommend SSRI as a solution. I understand how hard anxiety can be to live with, though. Adding OCD and depression makes it all the more difficult.
Some things to keep in mind while making your decision. SSRI aren’t really a long term solution. Many patients reach a point where the drug is no longer effective. For some, that point is several years, others reach it sooner. Usually, a doctor will increase the dosage at that point. Again, sometimes that helps, other times it doesn’t. The medical role that SSRI occupy right now, a lifelong treatment, isn’t the experience that most patients have.
SSRI are a class of drugs, they all have similar effects and chemical makeups. There aren’t any that are milder than others. There are some differences between them. Some people find they can tolerate some of them better than others. I think that difference comes down to subtle differences in individuals rather than the chemical differences of the drugs. Doctors will often switch between them until they find one that the patient can take. Be careful about that strategy, though. Effects from one can bleed into the new prescription, confusing the issue. Patients are often told to stay on a drug long enough to get past the startup effects, too. By the time you get through the startup effects, you’ve been on the drug long enough to experience withdrawal. It’s a balancing act.
I think that the best approach to take if you decide to try it would be to start at a low dose. If you experience side effects, like you did on Lexapro, it will be easier to stop. Some alternatives could be Cognitive Behavioral Therapy and mindfulness training. You may have tried some of those before.
Personally, I’m very adverse to these drugs. I feel that Paxil hurt me more than it helped. My diagnosis was for mild social anxiety, though, not generalized anxiety or OCD.
December 11, 2012 at 9:00 am
THANK YOU FOR THIS THOUGHTFUL REPLY VERY MUCH.
(SORRY, FOR SOME REASON I CAN ONLY WRITE IN THESE CAPITALS NOW…)
I’VE HEARED SOME STORIES (INCLUDING IN THIS SITE) ABOUT PEOPLE TAING SSRI’S LIKE PROZAC OR EVEN ZOLOFT FOR 20 YEARS OR SO… SOMETIMES WITHOUT MAJOE INCREASE OF DOSAGE… IS IT THAT RARE?
ALSO, HAVE YOU HEARED ANYTHING IN PARTICULAR ABOUT LUVOX?
I WILL PROBABLY HAVE TO START… WITH A VERY LOW DOSE. I DON’T THOUROUGHLY GET THE IDEA OF TAKING SOMETHING WHICH WILL ONLY HELP – IF AT ALL – FOR A YEAR OR TWO – BUT IT MAY HELP ME TO GET MY LIFE TOGETHER, AT LEAST TECHNICALLY. I DON’T KNOW HOW IT CAN HELP IT EMOTINALLY, HOW THIS CAN HELP A PERSON BECOME LESS LONELY, IN THE DEEP SENSE.
THANK YOU AGAIN.
December 11, 2012 at 7:50 am
Thank you so much for posting this blog Npanth, I’ve been following the comments on and off over the past 6 months or so. You have a lovely way of writing and answering others – so thank you! I took 50mg sertraline between oct 2011 and dec 2011 then 25mg sertraline down to 0 between jan 2012 and march 2012 so not very long at all. I’m coming up to 9 months off sertraline and have experience withdrawals on and off over these 9 months. I tapered too quicly down from 25mg sertraline and the wd hit me 1 month later. I decided against reinstatement as i didn’t want to take the risk of it not working. My withdrawal symptoms have mostly been physical, stomach aches, pins and needles, back pains, arm pains, chest pains, numb limbs, headaches, eye pain, tremors, twitching, hip pain, cramps, feeling bloated and nausea. I also had a spell of waking up in the night unable to remember how to speak which was really frightening.The worst months for me were between months 3 and 6 when i was in constant pain and the symptoms would not let up. From about 6.5 months to now i’ve had on and off spells, mostly days have been symptom free, some not so good. Recently, I’ve had a few days of nausea and pains in my ribs and stomach. I’ve given up going to the GP as it’s clear they don’t believe me when i tell them it was coming off the antidepressant which did this to me. Thanks for listening.
December 13, 2012 at 4:48 am
3 weeks i have been having this twitch now!!! im not worried but wow what weird things happen, I got through a very big thing at work so am happy idid that but still feel horrible, today i feel very scared and , vacant,lost, uneasy and like i dont want to be alone, i am so looking forward to seeing my new psych!!!! roll on getting better! x
December 13, 2012 at 6:06 am
jay how are you? x
December 13, 2012 at 7:26 am
Good morning Emma,or what ever time it is.lol
I’m getting better everyday, I’m having more and more windows, it seems like I crap out around 2 or 3 in the afternoon.but even that is getting better,I saw my Psych Tuesday and even she can’t believe the difference, she finally admitted that the Luvox was the problem and said keep doing what I’m doing.
I have told myself that this illness is no longer going to control my life and I am in charge now,
I talk to myself which I think is the key, you should try it.
How are you?
Jay
December 13, 2012 at 12:07 pm
I received this book yesterday and read about half of it last night. See the link below. It’s very good. It’s really a must read for all of us with withdrawl from these damn drugs. Oh by the way it gets tricky to read when a paragh hits home and your crying. This type of book should be prescribed along with the first bottle of all these cursid drugs.
This is day three of a much needed window. It’s not gone yet but it been really nice to laugh more.
http://recovery-road.org/benzo-wise-book-reviews/
December 13, 2012 at 3:07 pm
Hi Emma and Jay how long have you been off your antidepressants? I’ve had a rubbish day today with horrid joint pain. So fed up with feeling like this. Rachel
December 13, 2012 at 8:49 pm
Rachel, I am an enigma, I have been on, off, switched around ,self medicated (big fail) and out right lied to.
My path to the dark side started about 7 years ago when I went cold turkey,back then I was on 300 mgs of Luvox and taking Xanax 1mgs, 3 to 4 times a day,I was unaware of sudden discontinuation syndrome and when I tell you that when it started,I said to myself this must be hell ,because nothing could be possibly worse.
I did not tell my Psych ,I just did it because I had had it with taking Ad’s and still feeling like crap.
My psych at the time told me about SSRI discontinuation and to be sure he said to go back on, and the symptoms would reside, but instead of Luvox he put me om Celexa it helped but this was the start of my withdrawal ,so to speak,I stopped taking them after 3 yrs because they were causing side effects and I couldn’t handle them,then my psych had to close his practice right in the middle of a transitioning stage,and left me hanging,I saw 2 more psychs and they played the, try this and try that routine, well this got me more screwed up then ever,my very last psych had me quit the small 25mgs of luvox
I was taking back in August of this year,and something started to happen, I was feeling pretty good and then I got hit with GI problems, big time problems but I had no more anxiety no brain zaps none of the symptoms I had before,just the GI problems,which now consumed every waking minute of my day, pain 24/7.
You can read my post when you get a chance, I should have said that in the first place.lol
I am just starting out again but I have seen a vast improvement in the last week,and I only see it getting better.
I have a new psych who is sympathetic to my situation and is working with me,I know it’s hard to believe that this will get better but it does,and the sooner you accept the fact that there is nothing physically wrong with you,you have just leveled the playing field,I have for the longest time denied this and when I finally accepted this fact,I have been feeling better.
A neurologist I saw in the first part of the year examined me and found nothing wrong.After his exam was done, he asked me what I thought was wrong with me,I told him I thought I had MS, he just looked at me and said, if you had MS you would not be able to do what you are doing,and if you had some dreaded disease, do you think that you would be here now talking to me ,I could run a hundred test on you just to satisfy your concerns, but I am not that kind of DR,there is nothing wrong with you physically,but he did mention my PTSD and said you need to address this,so this is how I started my path to the dark side,but I am getting better.
People here have been very helpful and I can’t emphasize enough,Learn your brain, I read at least a hour a night about the brain and its incredible matrix, we are just beginning to learn about it’s remarkable abilities and it’s pitfalls.
education is some of the best medication we can give ourselves.
Jay
December 14, 2012 at 10:21 am
I had bad joint pain that came and went. It’s mostly gone away, now. I find that it crops up right after I taper, then slowly fades away. I think it’s something that will go away permanently at some point. The hard part is waiting for my body and mind to catch up. In some ways, being patient with symptoms and realizing that they will eventually go away may be the hardest parts of withdrawal. When we sprain an ankle, we know it will get better eventually. Somehow, symptoms caused by SSRI withdrawal don’t have that quality to them. They feel permanent in a way they shouldn’t.
January 9, 2013 at 2:35 pm
Hi Npanth, my pains over the past month seem to be often in my kidneys I think… they are in my back near my rib cage. I get so frightened as my mother in law recently died of kidney cancer. I should go to the doctor and ask them to check me out but i seem to have developed a phobia of going there after they refused to believe i’d developed problems since stopping the zoloft. Did you experience pains in this area? Every pain terrifies me. I am convinced I am going to die every moment of every day at the moment. Spending time with my kids i look at them thinking ‘i probably won’t be here next year’ Thanks for your support, rachel
January 9, 2013 at 5:09 pm
Rachel,I have a long history of kidney stones and had one removed last April,I was fine after that until I stopped taking my AD’s,I started getting pains in what I thought was my kidney and it felt like I had another stone,so I went back to my urologist and he did every test going and could not find anything wrong,he said sorry Jay, but we are barking up the wrong tree,he said it would be almost impossible for me to develop a stone in such a short time,besides all your blood and urine came back fine along with the MRI,so there I was having back pains right where my kidneys were,then it started to go away,it was replaced by very bad GI pain and now I’m very anxious and off balanced,I feel like I’m always on the verge of a panic attack but it never really goes full blown,just feels like it will.I’m still having dizziness and motor control problems, so I try to take it easy ,but i have a very stressful job and if i were not going through WD, I know half the crap I’m going through would not bother me.I’m not having a good time either,and I wish there was a magic pill to take,but we know that is never going to happen,so I keep on going hoping that someday this will all be behind me.
Jay
December 14, 2012 at 12:29 pm
i totally agree with you npath, we accept that most things break and get better, like a broken ankle as you say, we know will eventually heal, I think it is because it is such an unproven science we havent got the proof that our brains will heal, even though I know there is proof, it is not like the millions of years of proof we have that if you break a bone it heals. ALso with the body and mind catching up i too agree. I often say to my mum my body is fine i wish my head would catch up!!!! x
December 13, 2012 at 3:41 pm
hey danno that book has been my life saver, i read it everytimne i feel really bad and have probabley read it 40 times now i carry it in my bag all the time even if it is just to read a success story every now and then. There is also a facebook page that goes with it and is really inspirational.
Jay I am sooooooo very pleased for you that is great news!!! your attitude sounds diffrent I am so proud of you!!
Rachel, I have been totally off ssris for 8 and a half months, so to me that seems like a really longtime but as the people on the withdrarawl helpline (they have 2 helplines in the uk) keep telling me, and people on here, that is no time at all, my psych who does belive in withdrarawl but doesnt really know much about it also told me that he thought it could take 2ish years to feel normal again. I definatley do have windows as this morning and lunch i felt awful, as soon as i threw myself into work i perked up and now i feel fine. I defenatley am better than I have been but it is a very very small diffrence but still it is a diffrence. There are people that recover much much quicker so dont be put off by me, I would still say i am very much in the depths of withdrarawl but the only way is up.
Npath hope you are well.
heres hoping tomorrow morning no anxiety! x
January 9, 2013 at 2:25 pm
Emma, just spotted this- I get updates through to my email but not on every reply for some reason. You mention some help lines in the UK – i think i’ve been in contact with one of them. Could you let me know which ones’ you’ve spoken to and if any are useful. From my experience they are lovely people to talk to but some of the advisors have told me to use Sam E and st john’s wort and I really don’t want to go down that route. Thanks for your help xx
December 13, 2012 at 3:47 pm
Rachel you should read the book dano has spoken about as the woman who wrote it had really up and down symptonms and physical ones, mine are all psychological ones ( i dont mean in my head im imagining them, i mean cognitive), give it a go x
December 13, 2012 at 9:40 pm
Rachel
You can read Jay’s and Emma’s posts at length as well as mine. These tribulations will give you insight; some good some bad. What Jay has just written is very profound if you take it to heart. Your own mind will heal you.
I also have spent thousands upon thousands of dollars looking for medical answers that simply return a diagnosis of ” Your test is negative” or ” You are healthy”. The sooner you reside to the fact that time and your own mind will create health is the key. You will read and read and read and read only to find there is no silver bullit or miracle drug to fix your, our syndrome. As painfull as this may sound right now your own mind that feels broken, infected, full, fogged, hurt will heal and pull you thru this.
I don’t really feel worthy to advise anyone about this subject but I am one year into this process; so I guess that gives me some license to write.
December 14, 2012 at 4:18 am
dano i think you are very worthy of saying all the above, I too say the same thing to others even though I am in the depths, but most of the time i do know i will get better. I find it so strange that some people are all physical, some all mental and some both, i have had nothing physical other than the twitch which i have now realised i can feel but no one can see, but as i said not worried about that at all, i could totally live with it. I kind of know when i am feeling better as i get hungry and i am hardley every hungry when i feel bad.! Good news people i have now lost 56 pounds in 4 and a half months through healthy living, mainly juicing leafy greens, i think of it as my mdicine for my head!! you lucky people in america have juice bars, we have hardley any over here, going back to the mental issues, i dont get the tests for other problems as really the only other thing i could have is depression and there is no test for that, did an on line test for depression and i got very unlikey depressed on the resulkts x
December 14, 2012 at 1:15 pm
emma, how are you? to be sure I don’t think any of the symptoms we feel are truly what I consider mental, what we feel is real to us,so to me whether it’s brain zaps ,dizziness or eye twitches,it still a psychical reaction.Feeling scared ,anxiety what ever we are going through it’s a chemical/physical reaction,last night I really felt like crap and I just said screw it,I’m going to bed and woke up this morning feeling a lot better then when I went to bed.I have noticed that the more tired I am the more pronounced the symptoms are,so to me not letting myself get to the point of being over tired is a key factor in our road to recovery,we need to get enough sleep,and eat healthy like you said, I know for some people sleeping is a problem, but I always feel better when I have had a good night’s sleep, or even if I have to nap,it’s all good according to my primary DR., he once told me, if your body craves sleep then sleep,exhaustion is our enemy and and ally to withdrawal .
I hate the term, you have a chemical imbalance in your brain,90% of our body is chemicals,but we still react physically to the chemical changes, muscles, joints or brain, it’s still a physical reaction,when you mix different chemicals together and you get a reaction, this reaction especially if it is explosive , is physical,what I’m trying to say is,what ever goes on in our heads , the out come is physical to us because we feel it, regardless how it is manifested our brains physically control everything we experience.
OK enough of this.lol
Lets just get better.
Jay
December 14, 2012 at 2:08 pm
Jay, does your doctor understand tapering and withdrawal? If so, I’d very much like his or her contact information for this list http://tinyurl.com/7cp8l8v
December 14, 2012 at 3:45 pm
Alto, I would say to a point she does,but she will not advocate it,because she believes that if you need a small dose of AD;s to make your quality of life better,then she has no problem with that,like I said in a previous post she is willing to work with me ,but if she sees that it is not working then I have to do her way,keep an open mind she said,I said the same thing right back to her.
I have only seen her 2 times and that is not enough time for me to come to any conclusions one way or another..
She is giving me space right now and talk therapy is what I’m seeing her for,she is supposed to be well recognized in her field,but right now I would not put her on your list.
December 15, 2012 at 4:24 am
hey jay when i say they are mental feelings, i dont mean i am imagineing them and they are not real, i mean the pain is in my head, rather than in my body, so a full head feeling, sad, anxious, mind you i suppose anxiety is a body symptom. I agree with you about sleep, a lot of the time i count the hours to bed time so i can switch off and be refreshed to fight another day. I do thank my lucky starts that i can sleep until the anxiety alarm clock. I have woken up this morning and said to my life coach (emailed her) and my husband that I am determined to feel positive today, no matter how bad i feel, to know it will pass and that this is still another day i wont get back. Most evenings i fell fine I have now had 5 evenings in a row that i felt so normal i thought i was recovered and then the day , especially morning brings the baddness!! Im going to look at the success stories today to keep me on the right track!!! good luck today everyone x!
December 15, 2012 at 8:18 am
Hi emma, you had a good 5 days,that’s a great window.You will have longer ones and keep telling yourself that you are going to get better everyday even when you don’t ,tell yourself you will,it helps believe me.
Jay
December 15, 2012 at 9:28 am
I think one of the things that makes explaining withdrawal symptoms to other people is that the vocabulary doesn’t exist to really describe symptoms. When we try describe symptoms as “mental” or “emotional”, the connotation is that it’s some kind of personal weakness, not a real medical problem. The long standing stigma against mental issues clouds the issue. Pharmaceutical companies have done a remarkable job of removing the stigma just enough to allow people to take the drugs, but not enough that people feel safe discussing their problems with others. It puts SSRI into the same category as illegal drugs. People are willing to speak about them in general, but not in specific terms. There are many people who will joke about smoking pot, but very few who would admit that they do it. I think the same kind of double standard exists for SSRI. Many people will accept the Pharmaceutical companies’ assertion that depression is caused by a lifelong imbalance because they’re not willing to approach the subject of mental issues any closer than that. So, when it comes to withdrawal, they have no way of dealing with it in any meaningful way. They have to break with cultural conventions to even understand it in their own minds.
December 15, 2012 at 9:52 am
npanth, you hit the nail right on the head,my New psych has said the same thing, until people can openly and comfortably talk about, I hate to say this ,Their mental sate of mind and the medication they are on, without being frowned upon or looked at as though we have some sort of contagious disease, this will stay a close subject
only to be discussed among people like our selves or the Dr’s that treat us.
People really get turned off when you mention mental illness,yet have no problem discussing cancer and other diseases,some to the point where I want to walk out of the room.
We are no different.
Jay
December 15, 2012 at 8:10 am
i was on 100mg of zoloft at my highest. i weaned to 50mg. i’m now weaning about 3mg where i tap out 3mg of powder from the capsule because they don’t make 3mg capsules. any more withdrawal and i would experience hell of symptoms like i did when i went from 100 to 50–when it felt like my body was falling apart. one of my worst symptoms was soft, loose skin, that was noticable to people that touched me. because of the loose skin, my body went through spells where i feel my skin tightening, and my body adjusting. this is a very upsetting symptom because it feels like my body is literally falling apart. anyone else go through this bizarre symptom?
December 15, 2012 at 9:37 am
Actually, a symptom that I noticed recently is that the skin on my hand is looser than it used to be. I think it’s because I lost so much weight during withdrawal. Either way, it just slides around on my knuckles, now. As Jay says, everyone seems to have at least one symptom that is unique to their withdrawal.
If your symptoms escalate, the best way to deal with it it to slow down, or even pause, your taper. That was one of the mistakes I made when I started. I tapered off Paxil on a set schedule, regardless of how I felt. I thought that getting off the drug was the most important thing, everything would work out if I could just get to zero. Since then, I’ve found out that maintaining quality of life during withdrawal is equally as important as getting off.
December 15, 2012 at 8:35 am
zman, I have read that ad’s cause loose skin in the facial area,although I have never experienced this myself ,It seems to be a common symptom that is not listed,so I would not let that get me down,everybody experiences one unique symptom/s
that others don’t.
Other than that how is your tapering going?
Jay
December 15, 2012 at 7:58 pm
have you guys been feelinh lonely too? has anyone been with you through this?
i’ve been going through this alone, no frieds or family close enough to talk about this long journey of withdrawal.
December 15, 2012 at 11:38 pm
Hi susan,
I think for the most part we are all alone,in my case my wife tries to understand but in reality she can’t comprehend what I am going through and it gets her very frustrated, she wants to help but is at a loss as to what to do.
I think personally that family and friends are not to receptive to the idea that you are having withdrawal problems, because they can’t relate,they don’t know how you got there in the first place.Mental problems unfortunately, are very misunderstood and family and friends shy away when you try to talk about them.We are still in the dark ages when it comes to this subject.
My withdrawal is not discussed between my siblings or family,they are aware of my situation but the subject never comes up and I don’t try to bring it up either.
But if you would like you can discuss them here or there is another good site I listed below,either way you can’t go wrong.
survivingantidepressants.org
p.s. We are here to help,I have been given some of the best advice from these 2 sites and I am glad I found them.
Jay
December 15, 2012 at 11:43 pm
It’s very hard to talk to people, even close friends, about withdrawal. It’s so outside normal human experience that it’s hard to describe in a way that makes sense. The long time frame also tends to put people off. Just as it’s hard to have symptoms for so long, it’s hard for a person to listen compassionately for the long term.
There’s a strange irony to withdrawal that I’ve found myself in from time to time. Instead of getting comfort, I’ve found myself reassuring my friends that it will eventually end. That’s what I wanted to hear from them, but it somehow gets reversed. I think it’s very hard for people who haven’t gone through it to understand. The only people I’ve found who really get it are those that have gone through it, or something similar like alcohol/drug withdrawal.
December 16, 2012 at 2:25 pm
that is so funny i too reassure my friends it will end and i will get better, i think because i dread them saying that i need to take drugs or smething, literally today i told my aunty i still feel horrible but is ok because it is what it is and i have to go through it, she was then reassured, it is lonely as the others say the only people who understand are those going through it, my husband is soooo patient and has read up on withdrarawl to help me but all he can do is comfort me he cant help, only time will help that is it. Yesterday i managed to feel positive whilst feeling bad, today it has been impossible, i go to bed every night thinking tomorrow could be the day it all starts to change., the stigma is bad and i have sworn to myself when i have got through this i will do something to help people who are in withdrarawl, i do not hesitate telling people this is what i am going through and that i am not ashamed, but what i do worry is that people dont believe it is real and that i am holding out for something that isnt going to happen, sometimes i dont even think my dadd who has had depression and been on drugs himself thinks it can take this long to adjust, that is why i have soiught a psychitrist who i hope does support the fact it takes time! i wish someone could tell us this will heal with a time scale like a broken leg, that would be too easy!! x
December 19, 2012 at 11:03 am
so i went to the new psychitrist and he did not have experience with withdrarawl but totally believes in it, the reason he said he doesnt have the experience is because if his patients are un medicated he wont treat them with drugs, if they come to him medicated they useley stay on the drugs for life against his advice. It was so refreshing to hear a qualified psychitrist saying that he believes anti depressants cause depression and do nothing, he said they are posison and one day will all be banned, sounds like a quack but he wasnt at all, he said if i had gone to him 12 years ago he would noit have treated me with drugs which i understand as people didnt really use alternative treatments then, he said i have never suffered depression apart from effects of the drugs, i had anxiety nothing more. when i told him my plan had been if i still feel this bad in a years time i would consider taking the drugs again he said no way you dont need them and the brain is self healing, he did not want to give me a time scale but he said it could be a few years but i will get better, i still feel bad and aful but no BRAIN FOG for 1 whole week which is worth celebrating but a lot of fear, of the dark, nightime, and not being able to get out of places, but no brain fog is amazing, it makes me think that the rest may start to go!! we will all heal!! x
December 19, 2012 at 2:21 pm
I’m glad you found a good psychiatrist. I think it helps to have someone who is willing to listen. That’s one of the things I don’t understand about some doctors. They should spend more time listening before making a diagnosis.
Isn’t it amazing when the brain fog lifts? It feels like my brain just switches back on and all the word fumbling and disjointed thought processes vanish. It may come back, but windows are the real you. The waves are your reaction to the drug. We’ll get through this and be better people on the other side 🙂
December 19, 2012 at 4:41 pm
emma,I’m glad you found someone who believes,the problem is we need more, a lot more,also there’s no way anybody can give you a time line,even with a in depth study , everybody is going to heal at a different pace.
To many vegetable’s how long, how much what type and the list goes on.
You reached a new step in your healing process, no brain fog,I hope this continues and you continue to gain the confidence you need to see this through to the end.
Jay
December 23, 2012 at 5:19 am
do you think you can be ulitimatley happy after all this, well content at least, or is this as good as it gets? x
December 19, 2012 at 8:44 pm
We really need a way to edit our post,I am thinking faster than I can type these days.
I meant to say veritables not vegetables duh!
emma,I’m glad you found someone who believes,the problem is we need more, a lot more,also there’s no way anybody can give you a time line,even with a in depth study , everybody is going to heal at a different pace.
To many veritables , how long, how much what type and the list goes on.
You reached a new step in your healing process, no brain fog,I hope this continues and you continue to gain the confidence you need to see this through to the end.
Jay
December 20, 2012 at 4:03 am
yes he was really good, i wont be seeing him again though as there is nothing more he can do other than time, im not tapering so dont need monitioring so again i am not seeing a permanent psychitrist. I am so pleased abot the brain fog as it has always been my worst thing, but I am so scared all the time that i cant really celebrate the no brain fog, hopefully one day i will be able to. This morning is probabley the worst morning i have had in a month, i woke up anxious and absolutley petrified and scared but i have no idea of what and got a massive headache, i literally dont know what to do with myself, i am making myself live, literally pushing myself to do things but totally removed from doing them, it is utterly horrible, i have dry heaved (which the psychitrist told me is a calming reflex which is why we doo it), i keep telling myself today THIS TO SHALL PASS, I AM HEALING WHEN I FEEL BAD !! i wish i believed it! x
December 20, 2012 at 1:11 pm
emma, I’m collecting contact information for sympathetic doctors, please send me his name, etc. at survivingads at comcast dottie net
December 23, 2012 at 4:31 am
feeling awful, no brain fog for 2 weeks hooray but crippling fear and doom and sad, almost worse thane before! will this pass, i am seriously considering giving up and going to get drugs, anyone have this? x
December 20, 2012 at 5:00 pm
his name is Dr Bray and he is based at the Priory hospital, Hythe Road, Marchwood, Southampton, Hants UK SO40 4WU, telephone 023800 877512 x
December 20, 2012 at 6:57 pm
Thank you, emma. He has a blog here http://josephbray.wordpress.com/about/ He sounds like a very sensitive, caring doctor.
December 23, 2012 at 4:27 am
so 2 weeks with no brain fog which is is so amazing but it is like everything else has got worse anxiety and fear are crippling me!! i actually again yesterday and this morning contimplated going back to my orgiginal shrink and getting some drugs as i dont want to waist my life feeling like this if it is never going to get better, who can prove to me that this will get better, i feel so sad and scared it is killing me, why cant i embrace that symptoms obviuolsy do lessen as i havent had the fog, i feel really irrational, is there anyone out there that has got through this, and felt this crippling fear over things they have never been fearful of before. There are clearly people in the world that do suffer from depression, maybe i am one of those people! when i am well i love going to new places and exploring, at the moment it freaks me out i get petrfied being somewhere i dont know it is awful!! I started yesterday eating 2 tablespoons of pumpkin seeds as my previous shrink recommended that due to the tryptophan in them too help produce more seritonin and surely you cant have withdrarawl from pumpkin seeds so i am trying it and sticking to it, how are the rest of you? my poor husband is struggling with coping with me he is very down x
December 23, 2012 at 8:25 am
Emma
Tomorrow will be three week for me with lessened brain fog, full night sleep and all together less symptoms. Yesterday was the first day in months that I didn’t take aspirin for headaches. For me the fear and anxiety are still there as well but I believe it is just my body actually knowing what these feeling feel like without the medicine. I was on these medicines for 20 years so I never knew what these feelings were. I actually had two glass’s of my home made wine last night and enjoyed the buzz. You and I seem to be on a similar time off the meds. You know we can’t tell you when it will end but please use my improvements as encouragement. You have done very well so far and you will get better.
You You You will will will will get better better better better better better.
December 23, 2012 at 10:42 am
emma, hang in there, you got this far,why give up now? your brain is healing and this is it’s final attempt to get you back on the drugs,were you ever diagnosed with agoraphobia, a condition characterized by an irrational fear of public or open spaces ? I had that for awhile and it went away,it was never a symptom I had before my accident ,so I attributed it to the AD’s and withdrawal.
This time of year is the worse for me,the anniversary of my accident is a week away and I am trying not to think about it.
I have had some good windows and really bad waves in the last 2 weeks and I have been seeing this new psych who seems to really care, she has told me more than once ,if you feel really anxious not to hesitate to take a Xanax,she said I know you want off, but for now if this helps with the ssri withdrawal then take it, I don’t over abuse them, so I take one when I think it will help and it does,I know as she does that getting off the benzos are going to be a very long tapper and she has outlined a plan that is going to take me at least 2 years to be benzo free,there is no rushing this and I don’t want to.
I’m the last one to advocate the use of a Benzo,but if this is what it takes so be it.
You need to get some stability, you are really obsessing right now which means your brain is trying very hard to sort things out,remember we are all here for you.
You will get better it’s just gonna take time,I know everybody says this but! it will happen I promise.
Happy Holidays everyone
Jay
December 23, 2012 at 11:28 pm
I’ve had the same kind of symptoms before. It’s a nebulous kind of dread of everything. It weighs you down in all aspects of your life. I had it a couple tapers ago. It wasn’t that bad, but it was persistent. I didn’t realize what was happening until it lifted. Then it dawned on me that my two weeks under a cloud coincided with a taper. It’s hard to recognize it as it’s happening. It only becomes apparent when it starts to lift. Hang in there, it will get better.
Sometimes, it seems like symptoms rotate around. Tapers usually start with physical symptoms, stiffness, aches, etc. Then it progresses to emotional symptoms. When the emotional symptoms lift, I start to enter the stable period of a taper. Then I go through it all over again when I drop again.
December 24, 2012 at 3:45 am
after i finished m taper physical feelings were more i agree, but then came the mental, this morning i was so anxious at 5am that i thought my heart was going to come out of my chest. It was horrible so now at 8am i feel totally on edge and scared, i am going to write this christmas off and hold out for next year and enjoy the plenty of days and years after that as today again, is bad, i will hang in there though! in the words of npath tomorrow could be breakthrough day!! x
December 23, 2012 at 12:22 pm
thanks dano and jay i really need to hear that today. Dano i am i think on the same time scale as you, I was on 12 years ssris and 15 years if you include trycillics, and i am just coming up to 9 months off. And Jay no i never had agrohobia before, and as with you guys and your symptoms lessening i will take hope in that. like i said i know my brain fog is soooo much better but the other symptoms totally take away from that celebraation. I feel a little more now this evening that I can keep gooing, I will keep going and thanks for looking after me guys! have a great holiday period, we can all get through it, you have covinced me of that, I just keep telling myself hopefully next year will be really worth celebrating the festive period!! x
December 24, 2012 at 7:42 am
Hi guys, just wondering about PAWS and PANES. Are these the same as what we’re going through? Hope you all have a bearable Christmas x
December 24, 2012 at 12:00 pm
There are a lot of names for the cycle between symptoms and relief. I picked up the “wave” and “window” names at a message board I go to. Since withdrawal hasn’t been studied, very few of the aspects of it have been codified or even named. We’re left to our own devices to describe it. No matter what you call it, withdrawal is something we shouldn’t have to go through. It’s too bad that regulation and science will only catch up to what we’re going through after we feel better. Feeling better is the best, most important, part, though.
December 24, 2012 at 8:54 am
hi rachel i am not sure what paws and panes are but sounds like waves and windows which is very much where we all are, I have decided to get the most i can out of the holidyas but put more effort into visualising how amazing next years holidays will be when hopefully we are all repaired or a lot better than we are now! happy hols x
December 24, 2012 at 1:25 pm
PAWS is Post-Acute Withdrawal Syndrome and PANES is Persistent Adverse Neurological Effects following SSRI discontinuation.
Someone has done a pretty good job with PAWS on Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-acute-withdrawal_syndrome PANES was a term invented by British psychiatrist Ben Green here http://www.priory.com/psych/panes.htm
Yes, they both apply to what we’ve been calling prolonged withdrawal syndrome.
December 24, 2012 at 2:59 pm
thanks npanth and emma. I think i’ve come across the terms PAWS and PANES in relation to other drug addiction problems cocaine and opiates. People seem to go through similar cycles of symptoms and generally see improcvement after 18 months or so. Emma, i think it’s a great idea to visualise next christmas. Hopefully we’ll be in a much better place then. Npanth when dp you think this condition is going to be recognised? I am so fortunate that i have access to the web and i can see other people are going through this but surely we should be able to talk to our GP’s and at they should believe us. it;s an absolute disgrace that most of the medical profession are oblivious to this or choose to bury theirf heads in the sand. I have seriously messed up my body from only 6 months use of these drugs. today i have terrible stomach ache, back ache and a twitching face. Just perfect isn’t it, and i stopped taking them almost 10 months ago. If the doctor had said, look there is a 10% chace that you’ll get really sick coming off these tablet do you still want them, i’d have said no and i bet a lot of people would say no too. Thank you all for listening to my rant. As you say Emma, lets think about next christmas! xx
December 24, 2012 at 11:17 pm
I’ve thought a lot about the legitimacy of SSRI withdrawal becoming more main stream. I do think that it’s an inevitable thing, There are just too many people experiencing it to be dismissed forever. The number of people who go through it grows every year, too.
There are some parallels between SSRI and other drugs like tobacco and Ephedra. Those industries spent many years denying that there were problems with their products, then delayed restrictions through litigation. Finally, the evidence was too overwhelming to ignore, and regulations came into effect. I think that SSRI will follow a similar path, but the timetable is less certain. Unlike tobacco and energy drinks, SSRI are used to treat symptoms that are very similar to the withdrawal symptoms. That makes it much harder to separate withdrawal from drug induced problems. It’s much easier to deny, much harder to litigate. I think that will delay the process. There is a certain inevitability to the process, though. Pharmaceutical companies are already following the same patterns that the tobacco and energy drink companies followed before they were finally held accountable for the damage their products do. In a way, I hope it’s more of an evolutionary thing. Ephedra was finally banned after several sports stars suffered heart attacks while drinking it. Even though SSRI withdrawal does cause erratic, sometimes violent, behavior, I would hate to see a rash of incidents precipitate a change in regulations. There are already coincidental links between SSRI and some violence, I can’t imagine what kind of incident it would take to cause real change.
December 25, 2012 at 12:24 pm
See http://www.madinamerica.com/2012/12/a-call-for-a-national-research-and-training-institute-for-safe-psych-drug-withdrawal/
December 24, 2012 at 3:08 pm
emma you mentioned your husband in a previous post – i think it’s really hard for spouses. my husband is so patient and is helping so much with our 2 little kids but he gets fed up with me being sick. i feel so guilty- he didn’t sign up to this,
December 24, 2012 at 4:12 pm
Hi Rachel,You have to stop blaming yourself for something you had no control over and still don’t,people who have never had to experience what we are going through, have no idea whats involved emotionally and physically, adding guilt to the equation only makes it that much worse for you,it’s not your fault.
I have been going through a cycle of emotions the last 4 yrs that completely are the opposite of who I am,and physical ailments that have baffled Drs for years.
I get the guilt trip every now and then but I can’t change the past,this is something I never accepted before until recently .
As soon as we all accept and believe that there is nothing wrong with us and I mean you really have to believe this,it’s the biggest factor that will make or break you,I never believed before but now I do,this is a Revelation that many people miss.
i was one of them.I tell myself everyday and I say it out loud,I am going to get better and my life is going to get better, that I am now in control.
Try it ,say it enough and you will start to believe in yourself,remember it;s your mind and you are now going to take control
again.
If I can do it everybody can do it.
Happy Holidays everyone.
Jay
December 24, 2012 at 11:23 pm
Withdrawal is very hard on loved ones. How do you describe the dissolution of self to someone else? In a weird way, the patient sometimes takes on the comforting role, assuring loved ones that it will get better. Try your best not to feel guilty about it. Guilt and regret are very common in withdrawal. They grow out of the depression that withdrawal causes. It’s very hard to combat because it feels perfectly normal and logical at the time. For me, I didn’t realize that I was grinding myself down with guilt until it started to lift on its own. At that point, I realized that the guilt wasn’t the result of a logical process, but amplified by withdrawal.
December 25, 2012 at 12:39 am
npanth, you really need to write a book, you have labeled withdrawal for what it really is, a hidden entity just waiting to rear it’s ugly head when not fed it’s daily dose of poison and people like us not knowing the difference,are told by so called experts that this is just another relapse of a diagnosed condition that could have been treated differently.
If we only new the truth about these drugs in the beginning most probably would have sought alternative treatments.
The world,let alone this country must know about these drugs and hell they will cause if used.
Its matrix has altered the minds of everyone who has taken them and we have no real tangible proof that it will ever be reversed.We hope and pray that it will.
We need help from professionals but it’s a double edged sword , we trusted them with our lives and we now see how that worked out, if it does come to light,how can we ever trust that what they tell us is the truth.
December 25, 2012 at 7:37 am
Thanks Jay. I think I may have to wait until I’m off Paxil before I try to write anything in earnest. During the two months I was off Paxil, I had a burst of creativity. I wrote short stories and articles. When I reinstated Paxil, that all stopped. It’s as if the creativity had been leached out of me. Now, I have to push ideas through the fog. It’s very hard to write because I have trouble connecting thoughts together. Anything longer than a blog entry begins to unravel in my mind and on the page. I know it’s still in there, waiting for me to reconnect with it. It’s a very odd feeling to look at myself in that way, knowing that a creative person is in there. I don’t see it when I look in the mirror, though. It’s just the same me I’ve seen all my life in there. That’s one of the insidious things about these drugs, I think. They make the abnormal suppression of self seem normal. As you say, very Matrix-like.
December 25, 2012 at 8:44 am
Rachel I try not too blame myself and my husband and I both agree that he is very lucky to have a simplistic mind that doesn’t worry about things so he only now and again gets down with it. Also I agree with everything npanth an jay say. One day it will all come to light, my shrink seems to think that the drugs will banned in say 15 years, he also said sugar is poison and feeds disease and cancer which I knew anyway from my new healthy regime but he reckons that sugar will be regarded like tobacco in the future. Anyway last night I had a good 4 hours of complete normality, like the most normal feelings, just happy and in the moment, it was beautiful and hopefully a glimpse of things to come!!!!!!! This morning anxiety wasn’t as bad but now a few hours into the day I feel removed from reality, could cry but not sad, headache and very electric in my head and face and in a strange say I am thankfully that it’s not worse! It will end one day x
December 26, 2012 at 3:56 am
Today is awful I literally woke up not wanting to be alive not because of feeling had or the pain, the actual feeling is that of not wanting to be here. Don’t worry I won’t do anything goes I have told my husband how I feel this morning and I am not suicidal but that is the withdrawal feeling I am having and this is the worst, how am I going to start a new job feeling like this, it is so unfair, I have layer in bed morning chanting to myself what jay said,I will get better,my life will get better and although I can believe it I can’t bare being in feelings, I feel at the moment like I am getting worse, ithas been over a month since I have had what I would call a manageable day, I can have a few hours in an evening of lovely normality but that is it. When is this nightmare going to end, I have a life to get on with, my options are keep going which is so mentally painfully I feel kinda have no fight left or take drugs, I need to see some improvement soon as I can’t go on like this is too hard for any human head to handle. Sorry for the doom and gloom but this is really the only crutch I have, I hope you are all doing well. I know by tonight I will feel better but being in the thick of the pain is destroying me x
December 26, 2012 at 7:39 am
emma,were here for you,I am going through the same feelings and I am 3 days away from my anniversary of my accident.
Christmas should be a great time of joy for me,but I was so fogged out and now it’s just a blur.I finally sat down with my sons and had a nice big glass of Baileys, my sons new I was not feeling the spirit and engaged me into conversation and I started to feel a lot better by the time everybody went home,of course the Baileys helped too.
This time of year is bad for a lot of people and your stressing about your new job,you will be fine, in fact once you get into the swing of it,your mind will be preoccupied and hopefully it will take your mind off of your withdrawal or at least give you so relief.
Hang in there and remember to talk to yourself,it can happen any day now and you have lasted this long.
Jay
December 26, 2012 at 10:20 am
I’ve felt the same way, Emma. It feels like calm logic when you’re thinking about it. Withdrawal colors everything we think. It really doesn’t let up much, not for a long time. I don’t know why self annihilation clings to every thought for so long. Somehow, it’s part of withdrawal. I had it recently. It wasn’t anything I would act on, but I couldn’t stop thinking about it. Since it was the second or third time I’d had it, I recognized what was happening. It’s a compulsion that seems common in withdrawal. I think it’s related to other compulsive thoughts that come during withdrawal. For a long time, I couldn’t get the image of a certain fast food restaurant out of my head. Every time I tried to go to sleep, I would see it. That was fairly innocuous, but compulsive thoughts can be about anything. It’s hard to see it for what it is, a misfiring thought, until it passes. It’s hard to apply mindfulness to it, too. It’s so ingrained, so fundamental, that it feels like it’s a natural part of your mind. Try to remember that it’s not a normal thought, but something that’s being caused by withdrawal. Once you get through it, it’s hard to remember what was so compelling about the thought. Hang in there.
December 26, 2012 at 6:39 pm
It’s weird though as it isn’t a thought it is a feeling, not a thinking I don’t want to be here but an actual overcoming feeling of needing to not be here, it is indescribable, the evening I started to have some improvement, I was with my sister and her family and my parents and all i kept thinking was how bad I was feeling and I couldn’t handle being with her kids at all, it is so sad as I should be enjoying this time with them, I just feel like I really now have gone into the depths of depression phase. Jay I hope your anniversary is not as bad as you expect, and thanks guys as we know this is so hard, and thanks about encouragement about the new job x
December 26, 2012 at 7:59 pm
emma, I wish I could talk to you face to face or over the phone,It’s hard to relate to other people and having someone that is going through the same ordeal to talk to is so important to one’s being,I understand and wish I could help.
Sometimes I wish we has a chat room or a Skype type of setup.
Having a group therapy session would help a lot of people and having someone run the group like a psych who believes in what were going through would be even better.
I had a fairly decent day so far,but I kept my self busy,my trainee did not show up for work today so i was on my own.
emma ,if you don’t mind my asking ,what type of work do you do?
I have gone from high tension lineman to having my own water bed business to working for Bridgeport Machines to working for the NASDAQ Stock Market to consulting (information Technologies) to my final job of computer specialist for the Board of Education in Bridgeport ct. USA of course.
I have my own computer business ( Data Pro Computer Services ) My older son and I are partners.
Funny thing is ,I wanted to be a high tech car mechanic ,because i love working on cars.
Feel better emma and repeat after me,
I will get better,i will not let this take control any more,I will start feeling better tomorrow and i will continue to to get better everyday.
Jay
December 27, 2012 at 5:41 am
hey jay i have also thought about that, what a shame we cant have a support group meeting in the local community hall, but here we all are in diffrent parts of the world being effected by the same cruelty. there must be millions of people in the world having this. at the moment and yesterday i was petrefied oof people dieing close to me, my parents getting older, me getting old, all really depressive things, it is horrible, definaltey like when i have had depression. i just want to be happy and enjoy my life instead of worrying about literally everything and feeling like crap. I beleive i am a bit of a worrier but there are certainly times in my life where i have been happy and content and not worrying about death, age, disease, life in generaI i am almost seeing this as my opportunity to really sort myself and head out for the rest of my life. Jay my job was until december 24th, area manager for a famous cosmetics comapny, so i was manageing 45 girls in 13 diffrent stores, definatley nothing that phased me at all, infact it was a very comfortable job and non challenging as i had been doing it for 6 years almost and knew the role inside out. I actually did the job better than my boss and was contstantley doing her job for her, so when her job became avaliable i asked to apply for it and the company said no one could apply as no one was ready for the role that worked in the field, it was very insulting as i had won prizes and awards for my performance and was consistently top in the company for 5 years. I beleive they always appreciated me in the role i did, but thought i was a bit rough around the edges for the next step up. SO i remarketred myself and went for other jobs in that more senoir posistion, and a few monthas ago i went for the job that i am now going to do that i never thought i would get in a million years, or at least until i was much older. I am going to be from January the 7th head of retail for another cosmetics comapny which is fairly new but growing so quickley. so my new role is to open 20 new stores in the next year, staff them, train them, develop them, come up with an operational manual, and then also support the openings of stores in place like dubai, canada, mexico etc. It is so exciting and normally the thought of the travel and responsibilty would give me the biggest buzz ever but as i am feeling at the moment the thought of flying to a foregin country seems like an impossibility on my own, a few years ago i would have loved the challenge. i know if i can get well this is the most amazing opportunity for me, but i keep asking myself why the hell have ai gone from a well paid pretty simple job that i could have stayed in, moved up eventually and gone and easily had a couple of kids in, to go and do this new risky scary yet exciting job, it is kind of like starting my own business, but i kept telling myself i need the challenge and i have no worries about being able to do the job, i know full well i can do the job, it is the travel that goes with it, but like i said when i am well i could toatlly handle it, i think this withdrarawl has happened for a reason as it has made me totally revaluate my health i am nutrtionally a diffrent person and made me do more chanllenging things, i really hope i can do it but more so i hope i get better and could enjoy the fact i am going to do something totally amazing!!! i want to get better x
December 27, 2012 at 8:03 am
Emma
I grew up on a farm in rural Michigan with very loving parents and three brothers. We were very humble but very proud and fare from wealthy. The only way for me to get money for college was to go into the military; which I did and served proudly. I did raise enough money to go to college and off I went. I received my engineering degree and found the love of my life. We now have a boy and a girl and have been married for 20 years. I believe I am living the dream many people strive for their entire lives. It sounds like you are on a similar career path with you landing a dream job. I started out as a low level engineer 20 yrs ago and have progressed into my current position of Vice President of manufacturing. I have been in this position for 5 years. It has been challenging at times but I am very comfortable in this role now. The issue with being successful is that most people look up to you for performing in these positions and there is very little room for error. Lets go ahead and drop in withdrawl sindrome on top of all the other burdens and wow, we’ll you no the feeling(s).
Not to sound ungrateful but all of that being said actually at times means absolutely nothing. I too have overwhelming thoughts of death and disease. I get scared going over a bridge because I think it is going to fail or collapse. My last trip to Spain was not fun at all between flying and the multi million dollar issue I was sent to negotiate. I myself have flown literally all over the world at some time in my life. I guess my point is to you and even myself is that I am still alive and have not had any accidents that have killed me. The thoughts of doom are very real and scary for me daily.
This has been and continues to be a very very difficult living without these stupid meds. After achieving and working so hard that it hurts to get to we’re we are today failure becuase of these damn drugs is not an option. Because of this we can only but be Herculean strong in so many ways now and when we get better. We will get better and love life even more; I’m possative!!!
December 27, 2012 at 1:08 pm
hi dano, i have to believe we will get better and i am sure we will, you have read the book that states so many times that we will get better. Dano did you have the horrible thoughts and fears before you withdrew from the drugs or before you started taking them? I go in and out of these feeelings alot as sometimes i feel soo bad i cant have time to be worried about anything elses, many a time i have said i dont care about getting older as long as i get better, and then the next day i am petrefied of getting old. stupid really, and i keep reading that life after withdrarawl is a piece of cake so i am clinging onto that!! we have a long rioad ahead but we can do it, today has not been too bad x
December 27, 2012 at 8:33 am
Emma, I too have such over whelming feelings of my parents getting older, me getting older, and thinking of people close to me passing away, I am a big worrier too, I would obsessively worry all the time, obsessively feel guilty thinking I may have said something to upset someone even though I didn’t, when I was on Effexor this did go away but it only masked the problems not solved it, I came off Effexor but did it too quick and went into depression, I am now on Lexapro and have been on it 3 months, it doesn’t have the same effect as the Effexor but I feel a bit better, I am going to wean down properly from these, this site has given me hope that we will all get better and we just have to hold onto that thought, that is our comfort blanket x
December 27, 2012 at 1:38 pm
hi sinead, its weird isnt it, i hate those worries they are the worst, and so irrational as we dont live life if we are worrying, i do find that these worries do go though, when i was on drugs i never got them, even when my father in law died so young at 51 last year, i arranged the whole thing and handled it without being freaked out by death and that was during my taper, i believe when we are off all drugs, or like me you are off them but the brain is still repairing, these feelings will go eventually, but the fact that we have had theses worries will make us more open to appreciating life and everything we have, as i said to dano one minute i am worrying about dieing and the next i dont care as i feel so bad. I have been told even bereavement isnt as bad as this as once you are through it you have a clear mind. my mother in law, aunty and firend all lost their husbands within the last 2 years and none of them have had to go on anti depressants as they have worked through things. these thoughts are all residue of the drugs still there or leaving, or there smoke trail, did you ever have the worries before drugs, i htink now and then it is a fact of life to worry about those things, but hey my husband said we will probabley all be robots in 20 years time so i think who knows what the future holds and try not to worry about it, when i know tomorrow i wont pay it any attention. I wish i could be like my husband though, he truley does not worry about anything at all ! x
December 27, 2012 at 2:04 pm
Emma
As your husband is; I once was. Pretty much fearless. I didn’t care about dying or ever gave it a thought. The military ingrains no fear and for good reason. These thoughts are very much new since being free of these drugs. I am beginning to realize that fact slowly. But as you know when your brain takes over it is everything and very very real. Jays words of getting better are helping. Lets keep keepin on.
December 27, 2012 at 3:07 pm
my husband is ex military too, but i dont even think that is it, he has just got a very simple outlook. well that is good news though dano as if the fears are new then they will go for sure, and hopefully we can enjoy our blessings and careers one day. we should start a forum for recoverd when we get there x
December 28, 2012 at 7:26 am
Well,yesterday was a so so day ,I kept busy for most of it,then around 2pm I got hit with my annual anniversary PTSD reliving my accident symptoms,God awful fear of dieing ,feeling of burning pain all over my body,dizziness,stomach pain and others and I’m still going through it this morning,the biggest thing I have right now is anger and ringing in my ears.
I know this will pass,it just sucks that i have to go through this every December 28th,before this accident I never worried about a thing,now I worry about everything, so unfair that we have to go through this hell,well I’m off to work,hopefully I can forget for awhile and deal with this when I get home.
Have nice day everyone.
Jay.
December 28, 2012 at 9:44 am
I hope you feel better Jay. After so many years, it may be too much to hope that it will fade, but I hope that you find a way to integrate it into your life in a way that doesn’t cause recurring problems.
December 28, 2012 at 7:26 am
My boyfriend is in the Defence Forces here and he too has a great outlook on life, he doesn’t see the point in worrying and enjoys life and sometimes I feel jealous, I want to feel how he feels but I do have faith that we will get there x
December 28, 2012 at 10:27 am
we will all get there and jay i am sure when you are through withdrarawl and off all these awful drugs you will get an ease up with the PTSD, have yoiu tried hynosis maybe?? if there is a positive you know 100% it is the anniversary and that is why you feel so awful. Jay you will get back to the person you want to be, I believe we all will it just doesnt feel like it. But i am sorry for you about your accidemt, but remeber i was put on ADs for PTSD too that was the whole begining of it and i no longer give the accident any thought, it is possible to recover from that.have hope!! and also please guys read the account of bliss on recovery_road.org, she came through all of this and has dedicated her life to encouraging others. anyway diffrent subject, normally I cant bare the thought of being touched, like i cant even go to the hairdressers as i hate being touched but today i enjoyed it so much i even had a massage, that is massive touching!!! guys please read the recovery road thing it has kept me going for 9 whole months now!!!
December 28, 2012 at 4:54 pm
Thanks emma and npanth,I just got home, I was so bad around 10 am this morning that i had to leave the building and walk around,I feel like I’m fire right now and I know it’s just the anniversary.
I wish I could forget, but it was so traumatic and having an out of body experience really did more to me than the physical damage,I use to laugh at people when I heard about their experiences, yea right ,Ok sure.then it happened to me and I get the yea right ,sure you did from people I tell it to,so turn around is fair play.I don’t think I will ever get over it ,but someday after I’m done with these drugs it may not be so bad.I think what is happening right now is,that my career and everything else is getting better,I’m up for a promotion, big jump in pay and finally have a Boss who recognizes my hard work and is very impressed with my resume,but I am not where I should be mentally and physically ,I feel that this is all gonna come crashing down and I am going to lose everything I’ve worked so hard to get, stupid isn’t it.
But that’s what I’m afraid of right now,I should be really happy but this withdrawal is taking all that away,well I’m sorry for the rant,I have to get back to telling myself I will get better.
Talk to you soon
Jay
December 29, 2012 at 12:30 am
One thing I’ve gained from withdrawal is a determination to never tell anyone to just “suck it up and get over it” I think it’s given me more compassion and empathy for other people. That’s a good thing. It doesn’t feel like much to me at the moment, but I think it will eventually become something I can be proud of. I hope we all take something fundamental away from this that will improve us as people.
December 28, 2012 at 7:09 pm
Jay your accident. Must have been horrific, is an out of body experience not a good sign that there is more to come like spirituality or proof of us having souls? Anyway the point is as awful as today was for you, you go through it, think of those people who can’t leave the house, and you are moving up through your career, keep telling yourself jay how well you are ding to still be here x
December 29, 2012 at 8:15 am
Jay
I can’t imagine the junk your going through. I am sceptical to reply to your posts at times because I truelly don’t even know what to say. Going threw withdrawl for a year now and battling the horrible feelings daily makes my compassion towards others with this condition so intense. if i could only help you and others!!???
You seem to have a pretty decent handle on your/our condition. I think I also have a handle on things and then boom I’ve lost it again. This is so unfair.
As you have written many times; you/we are getting better.
December 29, 2012 at 12:53 pm
Hey Dano, yea I know what you mean, I feel so much compassion for people like us and the helplessness that goes with it.
I think that if we could,we would all do for each other what ever it took to help one another out.
But seeing how all alone in this we really are,It would be nice if we had the comfort in knowing that this will soon be over.
We all want to believe this and I’m quite certain it will happen, but the need for it to be over makes it that much harder on us.
Having an out of body experience was very frightening to me,I did not know if it was real or just an effect of having 11,000
volts scramble my brain,although I will say this ,I was not aware of it until l came to , I was in no pain and was fully aware of my surroundings.
The last thing I remember was standing in front of a wall that kinda looked like rippling water,it was really weird,a hand reached out and grabbed me,I could not see who it was , I struggled to get away and we went back and for for what seamed a long time,then I came to and I was screaming I was going to die.
I researched out of body experiences and the thing most people remember, was seeing a white light or tunnel,or a family member who had passed away, I did not see a white light or a family member ,so this has me wondering why.
I surmised it was what we believe in,if you are a very religious person, I guess you saw the white light and family.
When people who had and out of body experience were asked,are you a religious person? 90% of the people said yes,this could explain the white light and family,because I was not a very religious person when it happened I Experienced something different,so this just makes the mystery of the experience that more convoluted, I really can’t tell you if it was a real experience,as someone once said about ghost, “they are as real as dreams are”.
I think that coming off these drugs has made us more aware of our own mortality and makes us ask the question,is this why we are here,I know there are people who have it a lot worse that we do,and I have see family members suffer unbelievable
pain,My father was diagnosed with leukemia at the age of 50,and was given 1 yr to live,we through a 50th birthday surprise party for him,he was so taken back that he turned to wife and I and said, I am not going with out a fight,I watched him
go through hell for 7 yrs,and believe me we are not even close to what he went through, I’m not saying that we are not going through hell,but it’s our own hell and every one is a little different but with one commonality, we all took ADS and we are all looking for the same answer,When will it end?
I hope soon for all of us,because this is a burden we were never meant to bear.
I will get better,you will get better.
Jay
December 30, 2012 at 2:25 pm
jay your experience sounds horrific i am sorry to hear how bad it is for you. I just know it will get better for you, i was stuck in a factory conveyrbelt and literally an inch away from having my neck cut off until someone managed to switch the machine off, they then had to cut me out, but i promise you that the thoughts around it have massively faded, it could happen for you tooo. thanks for the anniversary wishes, if i think how awful i was on the day we got married ( i was in tolerance withdrarawl to paxil and hadnt even started tapering then ) i have come a long way. i hope you all have a great new year. we are having a party tomorrow night which will consist of lots of drumk people and a sober me, i would love to have a drink but in my current mental state i just couldnt handle it, and i cant tell you how much i havent been looking forward to the party and the noise and the peooople but today i am not that anxious about it, i have even done some baking!! the last 3 days have not been as bad as normal. oh and it is exactley 9 months today i have been off all drugs x
December 29, 2012 at 12:38 pm
i have had 2 days of not toooo bad, not even close to where i want to be but still not as bad as normal, today not great but also not as bad as normal. I can feel it all in my head, like physically feel it which today has made me feel truley that it is things in my head repairing. i have accepted today this is withdrarawl and it is healing in action and normally i fight it so that is a plus, i think maybe because it is my and my husbands 2 year wedding anniversary and we both put in our cards that it has been a rubbish coupld of years but that 2013 could be the year of hope!!! x
December 29, 2012 at 1:05 pm
emma,that’s great and congratulations,I have been married for, wait for it _________________ 42 yrs.
People said it would never last because we got married so young,well here we are going on 43 yrs.
I’m hoping 2013 is a turn around for us and ever one here, being that 13 my lucky number lol i got it made.
Jay
December 30, 2012 at 12:12 am
I have been off Citalopram for 7 months, and it has been hellish. Major depression, stiff neck pain, tinnitus (ringing/buzzing in my ears), guilt feelings from the past, fear of death of loved ones, hopelessness, low self-confidence, low tolerance for stress, and loneliness. I am seriously considering reinstating, as I cannot continue to live like this much longer. I have a family and kids who are counting on me, and can barely function and hold a job. I tapered fast, 20mg, to 10mg, to 5mg, to 0 mg in about 2-3 months. Doctor had no clue, though last year he switched me c/t from Paxil to Citalopram, and the withdrawals were horrible.
Should I reinstate to Citalopram, or Prozac, or another drug? I also feel foggy & during the day around 2pm, I become extremely sleepy & tired.
Should I quit my job? It is stressful and though I need to make money, I am struggling with my mental health. The loneliness I feel, the crying spells, the guilt over my troubled past, is so strong. Maybe it is withdrawal, but maybe I need to reinstate, for my sanity. Thoughts?
December 30, 2012 at 1:15 am
ComThomas, usually the best way to reinstate is to do it with the drug you’ve been taking most recently, Citalopram in this case. Reinstating is a mixed bag. When I started taking Paxil again, it took about 4 months for me to get stable again. The worst symptoms went away relatively quickly, but I had lingering problems for a couple months. Since then, I’ve tapered very slowly, 10% every 6 weeks or so. That has been going pretty well. I have some mild symptoms. They’re the same symptoms, stiffness, tremors, depression, anxiety, etc. but they are much milder than they were when I was fast tapering. When I started reinstating, and for a couple months afterwards, I didn’t think it was worth it. I had withdrawal symptoms, plus the startup symptoms from the drug. I could feel it smothering my mind again. It was very frustrating to feel myself slipping away again. At this point, I think it was worth it. It’s given me a chance to get a grip on withdrawal, and look forward to being off of the drug for good with fewer symptoms.
If you can, keep your job. I started tapering off Paxil because I was laid off. I thought it would be a simple matter to get another job. I’m a network administrator with 20 years experience. The economy is really bad out there. I’ve had a lot of trouble getting interviews, let alone job offers. It’s another stress factor in withdrawal, too. I know how hard it can be to focus on work while in withdrawal. It’s grueling to do simple things, let alone complex tasks.
Feelings of guilt and dwelling on the past are very common in withdrawal. It seems like a combination of depression and anxiety that produces it. Withdrawal disables the control mechanisms in the mind. Thoughts that we’d normally be able to dismiss, sometimes without any effort, become overly important during withdrawal. It’s a dangerous time because we may wind up doing things we normally wouldn’t. Hang in there.
I hope you feel better soon.
December 30, 2012 at 2:38 pm
wow congratulations to you both – emma on your 2 years and Jay!! wow 42 years that’s amazing! What’s the secret to a happy long marriage? I’ve been married 6 years – it’s been amazing so far! Jay i was so sorry to read of your accident – it sounds too awful to even begin to comprehend whatr you’ve been through. I am so truly sorry. Emma glad you’ve had a couple of better days – things looking up hopefully xxxx I’m in the 9/10 month wave and it sucks big time – symptoms just as intense as they were at start. Wishing you all a happier 2013- it’s gotta be better!!! xx
December 30, 2012 at 3:46 pm
emma,congrats again, 9 months off AD’s it will get better,inspite of what I’m reading,people are getting better,and
emma ,wow I can see now why you have PTSD ,THANK YOU, WHO EVERY YOU ARE,FOR TURNING OFF THE SWITCH .
you should have a small drink,I had one Christmas afternoon and was pleasantly surprised with a nice little buzz and no repercussions, gonna have to try it again tomorrow.
Rachel,I have no secret for a long marriage,my wife and I got married very young, we didn’t have to but we wanted to and
when we tell people we met on a blind date,their mouths drop open.Some marriages are meant to be.
Both my brothers have been married 8 times between them,sometimes I get confused and call their present wives by a former one, really pisses them off,HE HE.
ComThomas, I would hold on a little bit longer,I know what your going through,if you read my posts you’ll see that i complained about the same symptoms.
I personally would not reinstate,I went through the worst WD/side effects combo after reinstating that frankly,I was ready to end it all.
You have gone 7 months, I think from what I have read and been told that reinstating after such a long period of time is worse then if you had started a couple of months after you stopped ,I tried after after 3 months and it was the worse thing I did to myself, having to deal with WD and the side effects of reinstating is a hell all unto it’s own,I’m not saying you will go through this but in hind site I wish I had just toughed it out, I was having severe Gi problems and should have waited them out.
Now My Gi problems are not that bad but I now have all the other symptoms of WD that I didn’t have before reinstating.
I wish I could get to the point with out all the dramatics lol.
Right now it’s tough for me to express myself in the manner that i would like,just hang in there a little longer,if it doesn’t get better then try reinstating,I would ask for help on this one though. Good Luck
Jay
December 30, 2012 at 2:44 pm
comthomas, it too had a fast taper and havent been on anything for 9 months, but as much as i kept thinking about it i resisted and still am resisting reinstating, i cant say it gets better yet, i am sure i will be able to say it does one day, but at 7 months i was in probabley the worst place, but somehow you survive, you will survive and we will get better, whatever route you choose, we can all really truley sympathise with you x
December 30, 2012 at 4:03 pm
comthomas i’m no expert at all but i agree with Jay about the reinstating after 7 months – i wouldn’t do it. You’ve come so far and your brain has been healing even though it feels like nothing has changed i’m sure it’s been healing. You will get better, from other stories I’ve read people say the first year is generally the worst then windows do come. For me, i felt the worst from 3-6.5 months then felt okayish for a couple of months now back in another wave 9.5 months out. You may get some respite soon. We’re here and thinking of you. We all understand the hell you’re going through. You will get better x
December 30, 2012 at 2:48 pm
comthomas i’m so sorry to read of your struggle with Citalopram withdrawal. I know what it’s like having a family who rely on you. I work part time and also look after my 4 and 2 year old and it’s so so tough going through this Wd too. N panth how far out were you when you reinstated? Good luck with whatever you decide regarding your reinstatement x
December 30, 2012 at 3:43 pm
Thank you for your responses. I am really struggling with this existence. I think I made a mistake in withdrawing this year, as I recently lost my house in foreclosure, have a horrible telemarketing outbound job, and am looking for other employment. The neck pains are constant 24/7, the tinnitus is really loud, both of which I never had before withdrawal. The depression I feel, especially in the mornings, is overwhelming. I carry a lot of guilt from a destructive past, and thought I could live drug-free. Maybe I’m supposed to use ssris for life? I also have sound processing disorders, which is amplified in withdrawal. Sorry for rambling, I just feel helpless and hopeless. When will I gain my self confidence back? Why is life so empty and hollow? I believe in God, and that’s hElped me, but those mornings where I’m crying and hopeless, and those afternoons when I’m so sleepy I can barely drive, after 7 months, there is something wrong with me. I think I may have to quit this job.
December 31, 2012 at 9:49 am
I reinstated Paxil after two months off of it. Reinstatement doesn’t work for everyone, and it can take a long time to get stable enough to start tapering again. It’s a difficult topic because it is so variable. I have trouble ordering my thoughts on how to advise people about reinstatement. For some people, it works, for others it makes things worse.
It took about 4 months for me to reach a stable point. For me, it was good and bad. I had a lot of trouble reinstating. For a long time, I had both withdrawal and Paxil symptoms. It really did seem like a mistake for the first couple months. I wasn’t curled up on the living room floor, but I wasn’t better, either. SSRI seem to have a Garden of Eden effect, they don’t have the same efficacy the second or third time. I think that’s why they don’t work very well in reinstatement. Reinstating isn’t a cure, it’s a way to make the symptoms less intense, another method of weaning. I don’t think I could have continued the way I was. I still get the same symptoms, they’re just less intense than they were before. Reinstating makes the waves more discernible. I can feel one coming on as if I’m getting sick. For me, they start with physical symptoms, stiffness, spatial disorientation, headaches. After a few days, I get the emotional symptoms, depression, anxiety, compulsive thoughts. They’re more manageable than they were before. While I was fast tapering, those symptoms would overwhelm me. Now, it just feels like getting sick every couple weeks.
Com, don’t feel bad about tapering too quickly. It’s not really a mistake. Most people taper too quickly, then have to reassemble their lives afterwards. The schedule that most doctors give is precipitous. They usually misdiagnose withdrawal as a new or recurring problem… which they treat with new or higher doses of drugs. It’s a vicious cycle. Many people wind up taking a fistful of pills by the time it’s over. You have the advantage of recognizing it early, which is a good thing. I also started tapering at a crossroads in life. I was laid off from my job of 15 years. I think it takes a major life change to break the grip that SSRI have on us, crack that distorted mirror we’ve been looking at for so long.
December 31, 2012 at 9:50 pm
Hello everyone,
I’ve been following your exchange for quite awhile and haven’t posted for a long time, unfortunately not because the subject’s become irrelevant for me (it’s even more relevant that ever before) but due to my total inability to write, concentrate and connect. It’s not timely to say that on the eve when everybody celebrates but I just felt a sudden urge to share. I am getting worse and worse (9 ms down the road drug free) – anxiety and depression are unbearable, and unlike other people here – mine is getting worse by the evening when is dark. I have a persistent insomnia, even sleeping pills fail to know me out, feel very bad pressure in the ears, anxiety through the roof. GI distress continues with severe GERD and heartburn and nothing seem to alleviate these symptoms. Also, asthma is totally out of control. I can’t tolerate any drugs that could potentially soften an anxiety a little bit – they all make my depression so much worse if it could be worse, because I already feel I an at the very bottom of a deep-deep hole. On top of that, my husband who also had been on the same AD, got off after me (slowly and gradually), taking into account my mistakes – and he didn’t experience any withdrawal symptoms for a few months, slipped into depression again (yes, the manifestations don’t look like withdrawal, just as pure relapse). He went right back to the same drug, it didn’t help this time, then tried others – nothing seems to work. His psychiatrist is just indifferent, doesn’t suggest anything except drugs for anxiety instead of addressing the main problem. Of course, our influence on each other is so devastating. Every day we are on the brink of going to the ER – what for? Or just finish this alltogether. The situation is absolutely unbearable. I am considering Hyperbaric oxygen treatment – out of total despair – it’s very-very expensive, I read a book about the brain plasticity and regeneration of neurons that that HBOT could promote. I am deliberating but can’t continue like this. Sorry for not up to the occasion post…
January 2, 2013 at 9:15 am
Jane, I’m sorry that you’re feeling so desperate. Be careful of your emotions during this time. Having two family members in withdrawal can be very hard. Don’t take anything that your husband says or does as an indication of his normal personality. It may sound strange, but people do things that they would never normally do while in withdrawal. Withdrawal creates a very strange state of mind that’s outside the norm for most people.
All of the symptoms you describe are common in withdrawal. I had terrible insomnia for a long time. I still have some GI problems, but they have diminished into an annoyance at this point.
Your husband’s experience of feeling normal for a time, then slipping into withdrawal, is fairly common. When I got off Paxil the first time, I had two months of wonderful clarity. Then I crashed and had to reinstate. it took several months for me to stabilize enough to start tapering again. He should try not to med swap while looking for relief. Many doctors treat these drugs as interchangeable, but they are not. Many patients wind up on a fistful of pills by the time their doctor is finished swapping and adding pills to their prescription. that can complicate the withdrawal process.
I’ve only read a little about Hyperbaric Treatment. I don’t know much about its affect on withdrawal symptoms or brain development.
December 31, 2012 at 9:38 am
TODAY I STARTED WITH THE BEST OF INTENSIONS, I WENT TO A MEDITAtion class at 8;30am and was alrite there, then i flipped out at my husband for something completely stupid and i know i over reacted and for the past 3 hours i have felt awful but cant even describe why i feel awful, there are no words, but it is all head awful not physical awful, and then we have our party tonight and today as a change from yesterday i am not looking forward to it, the noise the people is not a good thought and here in england as usual it is grey and poring with rain which i am so sure makes me feel soooooo much worse x
December 31, 2012 at 9:56 am
Don’t berate yourself for lashing out. It happens a lot in withdrawal. Try your best to avoid it, but don’t feel bad if you slip. It’s hard to keep a lid on it all the time. It’s bound to leak out from time to time.
Remember that symptoms are worse in the morning, and get better as the day goes on. Hopefully, you’ll feel better by the time the party starts. Have a happy new year, and I mean that in the withdrawal sense, too 🙂
December 31, 2012 at 10:17 am
thank loads npath and thanks for your bblog it helps me a lot, i asked my husband today to make me write it down in my diary when i am feeling well even if it is for an hour because when i feel like this i change my memory to think i have no time of wellness even if it was the day before, at this moment i cant see a glimpse of hoope when i felt so diffrentley about it all yeaterday, i just cant get over how literalally from one second to the next i can feel diffrent. ANd you are right i tend to feel better in the evenings and i am sure i will survive, when i am with people even if i dont want to be with them, it does normally result in distartction from horrible feelings, i have to keep asking my husband today if i will get better and i havent had to ask him that for the last 4 days, oh well, all i can do is go on!! here is hoping 2013 is the breakthrough, please god let it get better x
December 31, 2012 at 2:31 pm
emma, I find myself lashing out at my wife a lot lately,she tells me all the time ,one minute your fine the next minute your so angry,I tell her I’m sorry and that she needs to understand that it’s not me lashing out it’s the withdrawal.
I find myself like you said changing minute to minute, it really is an enigma, but like some dreams we have that make absolutely no sense what so ever,it’s the brain trying to sort things out.I had a dream the other night,I was in my bathroom
it was one of those lucid dreams where you see yourself and you are in it too,well anyways my wife was in the bathroom to I don;t know what we were doing but all of a sudden, pus started poring out of my eyes and mouth,I woke up just as that was happening,I wasn’t scared,I was just trying to figure out what the significance of the dream,I told my wife and she said
maybe it represents all the poison (Ad’s ) are flushing from your body,I said ok, works for me.
I hope your party goes ok and you have a good time, relax enjoy,I am taking my wife out to dinner ,something I haven’t done in years, so I guess I’m getting better in that I never wanted to go anywhere and here I am going out.
Talk to everybody next year.
Happy 0010 0000 0001 0011
2 0 1 3
Jay
January 1, 2013 at 1:30 am
I’m not sure that the dreams we have in withdrawal have any profound meanings. Dreams are extensions of our thoughts, fears, and hopes. With the severe distortions that withdrawal makes to our thinking, it seems reasonable that our dreams would likewise be distorted. Instead of processing what we’ve experienced, they dwell on the things that withdrawal forces on our waking minds.
I read a paper recently that described the effects of SSRI on the Pineal gland. The drugs suppress dreaming during sleep. As a result, dreams begin to intrude on the waking mind. It makes anecdotal sense to me. When I think back to the way I thought while I was taking a full dose of Paxil, it felt like I was dreaming all the time, but I never remembered dreaming at night.
The wild dreams in withdrawal could just be the fluctuations of a mind returning to a balanced dream state.
http://www.antidepressantsfacts.com/pinealstory.htm
January 1, 2013 at 4:39 am
I believe I have truly hit rock bottom, I don’t think it can get any worse, I just cant sit back and accept it and wait for it to get better, I think I am truly screwd up surely this is not normal, I got through the party somehow but have basically been anxious for the last 20 hours, I don’t even think gong on medication will help, I really can’t see an end to this, I am now desperate, this has got to be worse than anything I can imagine,i hope this year fixes me x
January 1, 2013 at 10:07 am
I’ve been there, too, Emma. It’s a desperate time. It felt like a psychotic episode. Everything upset me, there didn’t seem to be any release or reprieve. I just lay on the living room floor until it went away. It’s the central crisis of withdrawal. It didn’t last forever for me or the other people I’ve talked to about it. The bottom lasted about a month for me, I hope it’s much shorter for you. I know that’s an eternity when you’re living minute by minute, but it was a turning point in withdrawal for me.
January 1, 2013 at 5:23 pm
I hope it doesn’t last npath, reassuring to hear that from you though. Jane I hope HBOT works for you I have never heard of it x
January 1, 2013 at 6:50 pm
Micheal Jackson the King of Pop,did it all the time,how did he make out.
Jane ,how could anybody respond to a post such as yours,I hate to be the heavy,but obviously no one is going to say anything.
I didn’t know your husband was taking AD’s and was trying to tapper.The 2 of you together are a double negative.
You need help,way beyond anything anybody here can suggest.
Time to check into a clinic and get stabilized,you are suffering from sleep deprivation making it impossible for your body and mind to heal.
I want to thank you personally for slapping everybody in the face,including me,on the eve of a new year, you could have waited and posted your latest episode in what is so obvious a cry for help,which we can not give you.
You need to help yourself before anybody else can, I not going to apologize for my post,but I will say this,I am all done with this site.
I wish everybody nothing but the best and hope that all of us including Jane,overcome this horrible withdrawal from AD’s and that it becomes fact not hearsay and gets the medial recognition it most truly deserves.
Good Luck
Jay
January 1, 2013 at 11:44 pm
Hi, I wound up quitting the super high stress job. Today I am exactly 7 months ssri-free, still debating on reinstatement because of the painful physical and emotional symptoms of withdrawal. Citalopram was the culprit. My neck hurts so much it feels like it’s gonna fall off; my ears are ringing loud and constantly (tinnitus), and th horrific loneliness and gloom and doom thoughts in the mornings are hard to bear. When will the crying spells stop? When, if ever, will I enjoy life again? All I do is focus on negative thoughts, past mistakes, guilt, sadness, my Parents are old, I’m gonna die and my Kids will be without a Father, I’m not working so I’m a loser because I lost my house and have no money, and it goes on and on. 7 months ago, I may have been blinded by a drug, but I now believe IGNORANCE IS BLISS! Now I hear reinstatement may or my not worked, I am so screwed!
Are there any supplements that might work: SAM-e, 5HTP, ST Johns Wort, or others? I’m going crazy. I cannot stand the loneliness, the sadness, the depression, the anxiety and fear. I need help. Do I hold on with the false hope that this will get better? Or do I just go to a Psychiatrist and ask for the meds? I’m lost. By the way, wish you guys a happy 2013 and thanks for your support
January 2, 2013 at 9:50 am
Com, I had the neck pains for a long time. It felt like my head would topple off, too. It’s a terrible symptom. It has faded for me, though. Hopefully, it will for you, too.
It’s very hard to combat the guilt and depression that withdrawal causes. Withdrawal creates its own reality that encompasses everything we think. We’re living inside that little relative space, and can’t really see it from an outside perspective. If we could look at it from 30,000 feet, we’d realize that it’s irrational. It’s not a self induced irrationality, though, it is imposed on us by withdrawal.
I’ve thought about the ignorant bliss I felt while on Paxil. if we lived in solitude, it wouldn’t be so bad. Paxil distorted my view of other people, though. It made it so I didn’t have empathy, or even awareness, for the people around me. I mistook that lack of empathy for confidence. Apathy became complacency. I think that state of mind couldn’t last forever, it would have collapsed on itself at some point. Actually, it did collapse on itself, and I was forced to choose between changing and allowing the drug to completely suck me under. I was starting to do other self destructive things towards the end. I didn’t realize at the time that Paxil was the heart of the problem. I only knew that I had to change something. I would say that quitting Paxil has been the most difficult thing I’ve tried to do. I won’t ever trade this new found clarity for that apathetic fog again. All of the other self destructive behaviors just faded away as my dose of Paxil went down. In my mind, the real gateway drug was Paxil.
I tried a couple supplements, but didn’t find much relief in them. I’ve read of people who have benefited from them, though. Be careful with 5-HTP and St. John’s Wort. They act on the brain in the same way as SSRI, blocking the reuptake of Serotonin. They may help in the short run, but don’t address the underlying problem of rebalancing the brain to produce and absorb Serotonin at a normal rate.
If you decide to reinstate, you may have to wait a couple months to become stable enough to start tapering again. It took about 4 months before I felt stable enough to start tapering again. The worst symptoms dissipated within a week, but I still had instability that kept me from tapering. Since then, I’ve been able to do 4 tapers. I’m at 6mg/day right now. I think I will be off Paxil sometime this year. The hard part of the decision to reinstate is the strange way that withdrawal works. it doesn’t get better in a linear way. It comes and goes. You wake up one morning and it’s worse, the next day, it’s better. I wish there was a way to predict recovery, like a broken bone or sprained muscle. You may wake up tomorrow and be measurably better. I hope that’s true for you. Hang in there.
January 2, 2013 at 5:07 am
Jay I am so sad that you are coming of here but I understand why, you have been my buddy , do let us know when you get better, my personal email ks etolliday@hotmail.com if you want to keep.In touch. I kind of agree I thinkall this sadness in one place is bad for us. I however need the help at the moment, I agree with jats statement about Rachel you need help from professionals and come Thomas it will get better if u belive, that isalli can do everyday, sometimes I have the same thoughts as you and they plague me but when I am well or having a good window I can rationalise them, you too will when you are better x
January 3, 2013 at 3:42 am
so i’m down to about 47-48 mg/day–where i tap out 2-3mg (i bought a mg scale, but it won’t read to .001–so i have to guesstimate). i started this two–count it, TWO–months ago, and i have had bizarre sensations, soft skin, a basic head sick feeling for 5-7 weeks until recently when my body began to adjust, and i feel back to my confident self at 48mg/day. i started to tap out more than 3mg–probably 4-6mg, and again the symptoms flared with a capital F. i did not have it in me to go through another 2 month struggle with the said symptoms, so now i carefully tap out NO MORE than 3mg. I will try to lower another 2-3 mg later in the year, maybe spring when i am stable for a few months. I went from 62.5mg/day to 50mg day last year, and it was HELLLLLLL!!. anyone else do this super slow taper? any advice as to what will lessen symptoms? i heard benadryl is possible, but i have found it makes me drowsy.
January 3, 2013 at 10:03 am
I’m doing a fairly slow taper, too. It’s taken me 7 months to go from 10mg/day to my current dose of 6mg/day. Some people are more sensitive to the drugs than others. It doesn’t seem to be related to dose or length of treatment. It seems to be unique to each individual.
The best way to minimize symptoms is to taper slowly. The symptoms are the same, but they’re not as severe as a fast taper. It’s frustrating to see the dose go down so slowly, but I’ll trade that frustration for the debilitating symptoms I had when I was tapering too fast. Most people can taper 10% each 4-6 weeks with manageable symptoms. I’ve found that I have to extend that schedule on some tapers. It varies. Sometimes, I can taper more quickly, other times, I have to wait a couple more weeks before doing another taper. You may find that you have an easier time in the middle of the process, then have to slow down as you get towards the end.
Supplements like Benadryl can help with symptoms. Benedryl, 5-htp act in similar ways as the drug, though. They block Serotonin reuptake. They don’t do it to the degree that SSRi do, but they’re similar. I decided not to take any supplements while tapering. I’m worried about replacing one drug for another during my taper. The larger goal of tapering is to rebalance Serotonin activity in the body, not just to get off one particular drug. I don’t think it’s a bad idea to try a supplement. Many people find that it makes withdrawal easier. It just didn’t work very well for me.
January 3, 2013 at 3:46 am
this forum is really valuable. i’m glad i found it. thanks.
January 3, 2013 at 5:45 am
Hi all
I wrote here on this site earlier last year (september 2012) I had and still have libido and erection problems from my 6 weeks on citalopram (june 2012), that I was stupid enough to cold turkey from 20mg to a single dose of 10mg and then quit. Its been in waves at times I felt ok, not near what it was before. So this last couple of weeks my libido really have went down. So now im thinking of trying to reinstate a small dose of ssri maybe citalopram 10mg and then tapering down in a single month and hopefully improvements will happen. Or should I perhaps start at a higher dose or a different ssri ? What do you think are they risk and benefits doing that ?
The wierd thing is that I was on Akarin (citalopram) in 2009 for 2 to 3 months and did not have a single libido or erection problem at all, so there must be a difference between the different citaloprams manufactors, sadly Akarin dosen’t exist anymore where I live.
(my english and grammar is not the best, english is not my native language 🙂
January 3, 2013 at 10:34 am
6 weeks is a relatively short treatment period. Reinstating and doing a slow taper may introduce other symptoms, complicating the process. Usually, the taper should be shorter than the initial treatment period. Switching SSRI may complicate the problem, too. It’s usually best to reinstate on the same drug that you were using before. I still think it would be best to stay off the drug to avoid other problems.
A lot of people have different experiences when they take SSRI for a second or third time. Many can get off the drugs the first time, but have problems the second or third time. I’m not sure why it happens. It would seem that the drugs have the same effect each time they’re taken, but they don’t. It may be related to biochemical changes that happen as we get older, or some effect of the drug. It could be variations in manufacturing, too.
I’m sorry I don’t have any better advice than to wait. I hope it resolves soon.
January 3, 2013 at 1:23 pm
npanth, when did the neck pains go away? I’m at 7 months now. I also actually FEEL in my brain how sensitive I am to stress. Also, I get tired so easily in the morning and early afternoon, physically I can’t do anything, I just wanna lay in bed. The Tinnitus is really bad too. It sucks I can’t work like this.
I wish I could get disability while I recover from this hell. Has anyone here been able to get disability from ssri withdrawal? I’m in the States. If anyone should get disability, it is me, and all of us here for that matter.
January 3, 2013 at 5:51 pm
I tried to get disability while I was in the middle of withdrawal. I was slurring my words and had tremors in my right hand and head at the time of my interview. I had tinnitus and trouble forming sentences. I had medical histories from two doctors documenting the problems I was having. I described all the problems I had, both physical and mental. I was denied. I honestly have no idea what it takes to get disability. I’ve paid into that system for almost 30 years, and when I needed some help, it wasn’t there for me. I didn’t want a permanent disability check, I just needed help to get back on my feet. I would be off it by now, about a year after I applied.
My neck pains started to dissipate a few months after I switched to a slow taper. It still comes back from time to time, but it is much milder than it was before. I was on Paxil for over 10 years, though. I think there is a point where the drug has entrenched itself in the regulatory functions of the brain and requires a slow taper to recover. I don’t want to advise you to restart an SSRI because I fear that it would introduce new problems into your withdrawal. The difficulty is that it takes a couple months for the drug to reach effectiveness. By that time, your reinstatement would have lasted longer than your original treatment period. If you do reinstate, you should plan on staying at the reinstatement dose for a couple months before you start to taper. At that point, tapering 10% every 4-6 weeks will extend your drug usage for a long time. It’s possible that you would be in withdrawal longer by reinstating than you would by waiting. It’s a really hard decision.
I know it’s really hard to deal with the symptoms. I’ve had many of the symptoms you describe, and they are terrible. The over sensitivity to stress is very hard to deal with. for a long time, I couldn’t watch any television. All I could do was watch youtubes of other people playing video games. It was a rotten catch-22. My mind didn’t work well enough to think through video games, and I couldn’t stand watching tv. All that was left was to watch other people play video games. SSRI withdrawal is one of the most debilitating things I’ve experienced. The cure is much worse than the problem.
January 3, 2013 at 3:26 pm
Thanks for the reply, the thing is that the cold turkey definitely seemed to mess up my serotonin activity, and it would be easierer for the body to adjust to what the serotonin level was before taking citalopram. Taking a small dose tapering down. But I have no clue. Did you cold turkey and reinstate or a too fast taper and reinstate npanth ? And do you know of anyone who has reinstated after a cold turkey and had succes ? 🙂
Do you think there is any rules for how long you need to take the ssri before you can do a taper, like you need need the drug to get full effect at around 6 weeks and then taper down slowly ? Or could you do a 14 days taper starting a 10mg to 0 ?
It just seems like none has the succes im looking for after cold turkey’ing the drug at all, and that bothers me.
January 3, 2013 at 6:14 pm
My doctor gave me a two month schedule to taper off 40mg/day of Paxil. I thought I was being smart by extending that schedule to 5 months. It turns out, that was much too fast. Two months after I reached 0, I crashed and had to reinstate at 10mg/day. It took about 4-5 months for me to reach a stable point and start tapering again. Since then, I’ve gotten down to 6mg/day. I’m close to doing another taper. I’m delaying my next taper because I want to get extra stable at 6mg/day because the next drop will not be to 5.4mg/day but to 5mg/day. I really want to get to the point where I can split the 10mg pills in half. It’s been about a year since I reinstated, 8 months since I started tapering again.
During reinstating, you should stay at the reinstatement dose until you feel stable. For me, that took about 4 months. That’s the difficulty of reinstating after using the drug for a short period. The reinstatement period can easily last longer than the original treatment period. I think reinstating after a cold turkey would be more problematic than a fast taper. The nervous system experiences a tremendous shock from cold turkey. I think it would take longer to get stable after reinstating in that case. Doing a fast taper after reinstating would also be a shock to the system, which may compound the problems in withdrawal.
The problem with the drug is that it’s not an on/off type of thing like alcohol or other drugs. It forces receptors to downregulate and restricts their ability to absorb Serotonin from the interneural gap. The brain reacts by trying to produce less Serotonin. When the drug is removed, the excess Serotonin gets absorbed before the brain has a chance to upregulate its production. The result is that there is much less of the neurotransmitter available. Normally, the brain creates a balance between the Serotonin stored in neurons and that which is free in the gap between neurons. SSRI disrupt that balance and impose a new normal on the system. It takes a long time for the brain to rebalance itself after the drug is removed. New receptors have to grow or become active again, the brain has to make new connections in order to revert back to the old normal. It’s like a hundred billion sprained ankles healing at once.
January 3, 2013 at 9:55 pm
How could you explain the wave/window (though I haven’t gotten any window for a long-long time, but waves seem to get more harsh) nature of the condition? To refer to your analogy of the building remodeling, I’d say that it moves to another floor without finishing the previous one and leaving it in a kind of disarray and all of the sudden come back to continue with it, again abandoning other stories that have been just started on. As a result, every floor and the whole building is out of order and the process goes on and on making patches here and there. I feel so awful – couldn’t find appropriate words, GI symptoms grew into severe sharp pain every single night, sleep deprivation brought me to the level of anxiety that I can’t doze off even for a few minutes at day time – no sleep at all. I can’t take sleeping pills since they don’t really work (for a very short time, may be), and secondly, they deepen my depression the next day. Doctors seem to ignore the intensity of the condition since they trust tests only, not patient’s complaints. I feel like a person in a such a bad unmanageable condition should be put at the hospital. I was trying to arrange some treatments on my own despite the high costs but had to cancel because not even able to make it there. Sorry if the posts scare anybody but that’s the only place (I mean the withdrawal sites) where we can share our experiences without pretention.
January 3, 2013 at 10:50 pm
npanth, glad to hear your neck pains are almost gone.
I noticed you mentioned tinnitus, how’s that going, has it gone away or lessened? I never had tinnitus until after Citalopram.
By the way, I was taking a generic version, and wonder if that has something to do with my harsh prolonged withdrawal.
I was given ssris for depression & social anxiety disorder many years ago. I was cold swapped in 2011 from Paxil to Citalopram, and survived that hell. In 2012 tapered from Citalopram and it’s been an even worse withdrawal than Paxil was. I am so confused because there are so many different stories, and everyone’s body & situation is different, and for some this works and that works, don’t wanna make another mistake. First mistake, no offense to anyone, was getting off antidepressants at all. I thought I was ready, but obviously wasn’t. I respect those who’ve been able to ride this out, I don’t think I’m that strong as those who do.
January 4, 2013 at 9:22 am
My Tinnitus has gone away. It was pretty bad for a long time. It was a buzzing, whining sound in my ears. It coincided with my other symptoms.
I’ve been taking the generic version of Paxil, too. It’s hard to say, but I think some of my problems started around the time I switched from regular Paxil to the generic. It’s supposed to be the same formulation, but other people have reported problems switching. I still had withdrawal symptoms on regular Paxil. I forgot to take it for several days on a cruise, once. I started to get head zaps and irritability towards the end.. I’m not sure if its the difference between generic and patent Paxil. Looking back, I don’t think that Paxil ever treated the social anxiety I started taking it for. I wasn’t more confident, I got depressed at a greater rate. It wound up hurting me more than helping me.
I think you’re right that the decision to reinstate or stop taking SSRI is a personal one. I don’t dismiss anyone for making either choice. It’s very hard to deal with the symptoms. You’ll be better prepared for the next taper attempt. Hang in there.
January 4, 2013 at 12:54 am
Wow, so glad I found this site. Went off effexor xr cold turkey (I know, I know) 15 months ago and still dealing with mood up and down; it feels so physical I often think I better go back on meds but then reading all the posts (skimming some) I now believe my poor brain is trying to adjust even after all this time. I just ordered the book Dano recommended. Thanks again for being here.
January 4, 2013 at 9:41 am
Don’t feel bad for quitting cold turkey. Many doctors recommend precipitous, even cold turkey, withdrawal schedules. In the official literature, withdrawal is largely dismissed. We’re left on our own to get off these drugs safely. It’s hard to say if it would be better to reinstate or wait. Most people who quit cold turkey start to feel better at the year to year and a half point. It can happen suddenly, too. You could wake up tomorrow feeling better.
Reinstating after such a long time off the drug may be problematic, too. If you decide to reinstate, it may take several months to reach stability. Reinstating does allow you to do a slow taper, though. Tapering slowly minimizes symptoms. I takes longer, but it lets you live a more normal life while doing it. I hope you feel better soon.
January 4, 2013 at 4:32 am
i’ve been reading my diaries and realised that i actually came off 25mg zoloft in 1 week rather than tapering over 1 month as i actually managed to convince myself i’d done. I’ve been lying to myself?! so the truth is i’m dealing with a cold turkey ssri withdrawal situation. Npanth – i took 50mg zoloft for 8 weeks, and 25mg zoloft for 20 weeks in total. My withdrawal has lasted 10 months and i seem to be getting worse at the moment. People say that if you haven’t been on it very long your recovery will be faster but i think this is bs. My CNS is completely messed.
January 4, 2013 at 10:24 am
Withdrawal really does change the way we look at everything. I lost track of a lot of things while I was in the worst parts of it. I don’t think it’s strange that you lost track of your dosage drops. I forgot to eat for almost a week, once. That may sound strange, but that’s withdrawal.
Some people do have prolonged withdrawal from short treatment periods. I think that the brain adjusts to the lack of an SSRI at about the same rate as a slow taper. If you started a slow taper from 50mg today, it would last about a year and a half. Cold turkey introduces a shock to the system, which can prolong the process a bit. I know it sounds like a really long time. It’s very hard to think about long times like that when you’re living minute by minute.
It doesn’t last that long for everyone. Withdrawal is different than many other conditions in that it doesn’t seem to follow any rules. Each person’s experience is unique. Some people have short, intense, withdrawal. Other people have low grade symptoms over the long term.
You could try reinstating at a lower dose. Your reinstatement dose would be 5-6mg/day. It may take some time before you start to feel stable again. It took me about 4 months to get stable after reinstating. I had a two month gap between getting off Paxil and when I reinstated. It’s a toss up whether it would be better to reinstate or stick with withdrawal. Try to balance your symptoms and quality of life against the extended time it would take to get stable and start a new taper.
January 4, 2013 at 2:18 pm
Npanth this is really helpful- thanks. I think a 1.5 year taper would probably have been about right and given me symptoms i could potentially cope with. I don’t think i’m brave enough to reinstate now. I’ve thought about it many times but at you say with the time it would take to get stable especially at almost 10 months drug free i think i’d possiby regret it. Who knows – it might be the right thing to do. I’ve had days in these past 10 months when i’ve been symptom free. I hope this is just a nasty wave that i will emerge from in a few weeks time. Today i spent the day just lying on the floor staring and shaking. Not a good day. Thank you for all your advice. We’d all be lost without this site….
January 4, 2013 at 3:56 pm
It is a hard decision to make. Reinstating introduces its own problems. When I reinstated, I could feel that drug haze lowering over my mind again. I had those two months of clarity, so it was obvious in a way that it wasn’t when I first started taking Paxil. It was incredibly frustrating to feel my creativity and mental acuity slipping away. I was very aware of how Paxil was dulling my mind. I also had withdrawal symptoms, so it really was very hard to reinstate. I’m slowly pulling myself back now, but it has been a struggle.
I’ve been in the same spot as you, curled up on the living room floor, not able to do anything but count the minutes. It’s a terrible feeling. I had to sleep in the living room for almost a month because I was convinced that the floor under my bed was going to collapse if I slept there. I’ve never experienced psychosis, not before or since. That was pretty scary. I hope you feel better soon. I wouldn’t wish this on anyone, and I truly mean that.
January 4, 2013 at 5:06 am
Hi guys I am now 9 months off and at the stage of thinking maybe I just have anxiety and depression. The only thing that makes me think I dint is that I can have a few hours of relief a day, so my windows aren’t days they are hours in days. The worst is the morning,and jay if you are checking in the email address is have for you doesn’t work. Rachel that book is my life saver, there is also a Facebook Page that goes with itx
January 4, 2013 at 7:44 am
Hi emma,I’ve been checking in,I didn’t get a bad email reply from your account so I assumed it was ok,my email address is
jvbsr@optonline.net.if you or anybody wants to stay in touch.
For what its worth I was able to get disability,If SSI turns you down get a lawyer ,My psych at the time wrote up a letter detailing my whole ordeal . I met with doctors from Rail Road Retirement ans SSI they did an analysis and I was given disability to be checked every 5 years to see if there was any change in my condition,I was only on it for 1 1/2 yrs and went back to work.I was going to go back out again this year but I took an FMLA last year and wished now that I had gone back on disability.They can not turn you down all you need is proof that you are incapable of functioning at level that would allow you to work,if the say no get a lawyer,you pay into it,that’s part of what it’s for.
Jay
January 4, 2013 at 6:11 pm
Form some reason my email is also adding the .if when you click on it.Here it is again
jvbsr@optonline.net
Just to give an update,I almost passed out yesterday helping the Techs unload a shipment of 200 pc’s and 200 flat screen monitors,it seems when ever I move my head a certain way or I do some light to medium exercise, I start to get dizzy and feel like I’m going to pass out,I have a physical coming up the 16th of this month,my 62nd birthday,but I’m going to see him sooner,just to make sure it’s not truly a physical thing,it’s almost like vertigo but not as bad.
other than that,I’m doing fine and I hope everybody is too,I will post from time to time to let you know how I’m doing.
Sorry if I offended anybody with my last rant ,but I felt it needed to be said,I understand that people need to post their symptoms and ask what to do or how to cope,I just did,but when all you do is post negative after negative it starts to get you down,and impacts the way people perceive tapering as a bad Idea and cast doubts as to whether we are making the right choice,I believe some people are not going to be able to tolerate withdrawal ,and are better off staying on the AD’s,I hate saying that ,but it’s what I believe. In my heart I believe everybody can do it but if your not going to help yourself no one is going to do it for you.
Jay
January 5, 2013 at 7:48 pm
That’s ok Jay. One of the most common symptoms of withdrawal is a reduced ability to handle frustration. Combined with the unrelenting nature of withdrawal, it’s easy to get frustrated. I try to take a middle road between advising people to get off SSRI and staying on the drugs. On the one hand, the voice in my mind is very strenuously against SSRI, but I remind myself that everyone’s situation is different. It’s a bit like someone taking an illegal drug. They can’t really get off of it until they are ready. It is hard to keep that thought out of my response, though. Part of me screams get off that stuff now! But, do it slowly 🙂
I still get a bit dizzy when I exert myself. It’s not as bad as it was before, but it’s still there. We have to take a lot of care to keep ourselves from over doing it. It’s hard, because it can really sneak up on you.
January 5, 2013 at 8:25 pm
Thanks for understanding npanth,You are so right,I seem to be very touchy these days,frustration comes easy and understanding gets harder,I have really put the pressure on myself by taking on the role of Network Engineer,our Engineer of 8 yrs is leaving and I am taking his place,I haven’t done any real engineering in 10 yrs and only dabbled in administration these past 6 ,I may have bitten off more than I can chew.
emma, hang in there I too have thoughts about going back,but I have come this far and knowing that this might be over one day soon,keeps me going.
Jay
January 4, 2013 at 2:19 pm
Hey Emma, i’ll get hold of that book! thanks x
January 4, 2013 at 2:13 pm
Just wanted to say again that I am collecting patient reports of prolonged withdrawal syndrome here http://tinyurl.com/3o4k3j5 (and recovery from it here http://tinyurl.com/8uucq38 on SurvivingAntidepressants.org. I hope some day to use this information to educate medicine about this serious problem.
January 5, 2013 at 4:05 pm
Wow jay soon to be 62 years young,congratualtions in advance. Sounds like what you had could be like the wooshy brain a lot of people describe. Rachel I hope the book has helped you. I am still having really bad depression and am petrified that maybe just have depression. And anxiety, I had an awful episode today but now 8 hours later feel normal again. We have moved house and I am sure I am going to be happy here but my god the doom and fear of doom coming on is awful, I can’t wait to get back into work,I need the distraction , I have unofficially told myself that I will go to 18 months offf and if things aren’t getting better at all then I will have to revaluate. This too shall pass x
January 6, 2013 at 8:50 am
Hi guys its Josh again….tookzoloft for 7 weeks 50mg. Weened a fast one week taper. Hit with heavy brain blah…still stutter words and when I sing its like I forgot how. My voice and pitch is different. All this I can handle. But my zero sex drive and penis that feels like clammy rubber…now this is gonna out me six feet under. K feel that maybe my brain has been making some improvements….maybe… but do you guys seriously think I will get feeling back in penis? Or should I be trying a dopamine agonist of something for a maricle because its getting pretty scary. I know my life is depressing right now for other reasons but I also know this has nothing to do with y my penis has no feeling anymore…. I know my body and no matter how sad I can feel my penis normally to mastebate.or just seeing hit girls and stuff…absolutely no interest. I think maybe these drugs were invented to control population since mg ejacukation is watery and probably innafective. What a nightmare since I’m probably getting a devorse and mainly because NY wife wanted a 3rd child and I fought her on it. Over months I’ve realized I want one two for her especially and knowing this poison my doctor gave me…knowing j was trying to save my marriage…. probably will make me lose it for sure now. Question for you guys is any reason that my penis would get feeling back? Pease be honest. It feels like the nerves have been removed
January 6, 2013 at 9:22 am
Sexual dysfunction is very common in SSRI withdrawal. It affects both function and desire. It varies from person to person. Some people have problems while they’re taking the drug, others get it when they try to stop. There are many reports of people becoming promiscuous on SSRI. I think the only constant is that SSRI affect the sex drive in one way or another. I basically became sexually inert for 10 years while I was taking Paxil. I had little function or desire. I thought it was caused by advancing age or some other problem. When I started tapering, I realized that it had been caused by Paxil. I have recovered unevenly. Sometimes I have desire, but no function. Other times, I have function, but no desire. The two are starting to coincide more often, now. It’s hard to say how long it will take to get better. There isn’t a set schedule. It does get better, though.
January 6, 2013 at 10:08 pm
I was on Zoloft for 6 weeks and went cold turkey when I felt like it was giving me serotonin syndrome. . My withdraw hasn’t been too concerning but I am finding that I’m horny all the time whereas I’ve always usually been fairly conservative
January 8, 2013 at 3:56 pm
Well somehow I am still here, God knows how I have survived another day, I am still at rock bottom and think today has been the worst day I have had in the nine months have been drug free, I can only hope that it has got this bad because it is a turning point, I literally thought today as I walked past some policemen that I should say to them please take me to a mental home as i am loosing the plot, I can’t put it into words, sleep tonight is my only comfort,and this is only two days into my new job, I have made an excuse and told them I have ear problems incase I appear vacant. This is so hard I wouldn’t wish it on anyone, how am I still here. By the way I have been fine on the subway, I feel so bad I can’t even worry about it x
January 8, 2013 at 4:18 pm
Emma, you sound so desperate and unhappy. I am feeling the same way, but I cannot stand living this way. For me, it’s important to feel healthy in my brain, not only for myself but for my family. I am talking to my doctor today about starting meds again. I don’t mean to take away from this board and what it is trying to accomplish, but I am feeling in my gut that my depression is back. I’m living in panic. That just doesn’t work for me. I am also going to try and talk to a psychiatrist about which meds have the least side effects. And only take as much as will get me stable again. Anyway, it’s something to consider. There are many people that benefit from them.
January 9, 2013 at 10:00 am
My intention isn’t so much to get people off SSRI, but rather to give them some support. There’s no way to get off these drugs until you’re ready to. It’s not a mind over matter kind of thing, either. You can’t just decide to get off regardless of the consequences. There’s a process of learning that has to happen before people can get off, too. It can be described, but it’s very hard to convey the internal states of mind that happen in withdrawal. It took me more than a year to understand the subtleties of waves and windows, separate drug effects from internal mental states. I just want to shorten that process for other people if I can.
Personally, I think it’s worth the chaos to get off these drugs, but I won’t try to impose that feeling on another person. I’m sorry if it sounds like that, sometimes.
January 9, 2013 at 8:10 pm
I don’t mean to insult what you are doing here at all. I think I may have to take a break from reading about it though, because my mental state is so fragile and I have to believe that going back on an SSRI will help my body. At least for now. I think it may be difficult to convey to someone who hasn’t suffered from Depression what it actually feels like when it happens, but in my case it is devastating. I didn’t expect this, and thought my withdrawal was going along quite swimmingly, then BAM I was suddenly crying all day, fearful, full of panic, and unable to think clearly. I can subtly see what you are saying about understanding the state of mind that might have been happening during withdrawal and trying to live through it, but in the state of mind that I’ve been in, I can’t really think clearly or rationally. I felt like I was going to end up institutionalized. And I also have to be concerned about the welfare of my family. This isn’t just me in this, I have to try and be a good, healthy mom. So for me, I think the choice is to make sure I can think clearly. I may try this again at some time, and maybe the next time I’ll be more ready for a sudden onset of Deression/panic. Maybe I can learn some skills to deal with that level of panic. I’m not sure you can learn skills or rationalize away a feeling that everything sucks and nothing matters and that you aren’t worth being in the world (even though you know that your friends and family love you). When everything around you seems bad and sad, it would take a herculean effort to think rationally about “this is the withdrawal, this is going to go away” – I know, I’ve been fighting those thoughts for awhile. I wanted so bad to push through it, but I’m honestly not sure that I don’t just have Depression. My naturopath thinks that the way we eat creates depression, so maybe someday down the road I’ll get to the point of eating what my body likes and can tolerate, and I’ll be more successful in coming off the ADs then. There’s a part of my brain that wants to return to your way of thinking, npath, but I also don’t know that you’ve ever faced the feelings of hopelessness that some of us have…maybe I’m wrong. It’s pretty intolerable to me. I don’t do well living in a constant state of panic – and it wouldn’t be good for my family. Thanks for the support you provide her – it’s very altruistic that you respond to all of these desperate people. I would just say that we should all remain open minded and follow whatever program allows us to be functional, healthy members of society. If you can get off ADs with a reasonable amount of distress – by all means do it! If you are living in panic and can’t function – I’m not sure I’d say to continue that. I’d talk to a dr. I’m doing lots of leg work right now – meeting with two psych nurse practitioners next week, and one psychiatrist. I will be sure to discuss the idea of protracted withdrawl with each of them. If there are questions you think I should ask, please let me know. In the meantime, I started my Citalopram again today, and I swear to God I already feel better. Somehow, it works for my brain. I am definitely going to keep a journal this time, of how I feel on this drug, and any others. And try to mitigate any affects it can have on my body – probiotics, and whatever else the naturopath recommends.
Thanks. Maybe talk to you again in the future.
January 9, 2013 at 11:49 pm
Sarah, I couldn’t agree more with what you’ve said – you put it very eloquently and these reflections reverberate exactly what I feel and go through. There is a certain point, threshold, up to which you can rationalize and tolerate but beyond it that gets impossible to endure. If I could go back, I would – no doubt about that. But given the fact that all my reactions to drugs have changed dramatically (even tiny dozes cause severe adverse reactions, while some medications used to work for other chronic conditions stopped working at all) I am terrified to do so, pretty sure that response will be drastic. For me there is no way back and that’s very unfortunate. I don’t know how long you’ve been off – hopefully it will help you. Please, continue to post.
January 10, 2013 at 10:50 am
I’m not insulted at all. I understand what you’re going through. I reached that point, too, and had to reinstate on paxil to protect my well being. I only had myself to worry about, it must be even more pressing to have a family to worry about, too. I hope you have success reinstating. I hope you feel better.
January 8, 2013 at 4:43 pm
god emma poor you – how do you go out to work when you feel so awful? I’m fortunate in that i work from home so i don’t have to interact with anyone unless it;s online or telephone. I don’t know how you manage to commute to work feeling like this. I’m going to do the same as you. Go 18 months and reevaluate then.
January 8, 2013 at 8:44 pm
Ok people,I just want you to know that if you are going to go back on AD’s there is a new blood test out there.
I had it done and the results are staggering,this test can tell what AD’s you can tolerate and which ones are bad for you.
My test results had me in the red on almost all AD’s some in the yellow and none that were green.
Red being very bad and cause problems like liver damage and harm to other organs and bad side effects.
yellow being moderate,can take the drug but not for long periods of time moderate side effects.
green meaning you will tolerate it and not be harmful to your body mild to no side effects.
I thought the test was a waste of time,until I saw the results and my Psych said she never saw a test like mine before.
There is no AD that I can take that is in the green, and the only Benzo that is even remotely tolerable for me Xanax.
I have been on this drug to long and it’s going to take a very long taper.
I’m not advocating AD’s but if truly feel you need to go back on, at least do this test.
Like i said ,I thought it was BS because it cost 2k to do,but after seeing my results next to other people,I can see why I was flipping out trying to go back on Luvox,that one was in the red.
Right now I’m having so so days with mild anxiety tossed in for good measure,I haven’t reached a point of stability yet, that will allow me to start tapering off Xanax,so I’m taking 1 XR 1mg in the morning and 1 mg regular at 9pm,so far this schedule
at least knocks down a lot of anxiety and makes the day a little more tolerable,it’s not what i want,but I have to do what
ever it takes to stabilize before I go on to the next phase of tapering,Xanax is going to be bad and I am on another site called Benzo Buddies, and the site is really good ,just like this one.
I hope emma that any day now you get a break and that goes for everybody here,I know how tough it is especially trying to do it on your own, just hang in there and I will support any decision you people make.
I just wish there was a better way,but we are on our own for now.
Peace
Jay
January 8, 2013 at 9:48 pm
Jay
Is there a specific medical term for this test. This way when the uninformed medical community says ” da gee beever I’ve never heard of a test like that” we can be specific in our answer.
January 8, 2013 at 10:18 pm
I will find out, I do know that the only lab that does it here is called “Clinical Laboratory Partners”
The test takes 4 weeks to complete,I will post as soon as I get the name of the test.
I looked at my bill,but it didn’t list the name of the test just the cost for service rendered and supplies used,of course
they wanted $61 bucks for supplies.No wonder insurance is so high,I’m glad i have it,but it cost me $500 a month up from $80 a year ago,I almost quit my job,I lost a hundred bucks a week,I know some people pay more and some have none at all, but that was some jump, it was the only thing keeping me there,being a civil servant sucks.lol
Jay
January 9, 2013 at 1:10 pm
This most likely is a test of liver enzymes.
Many drugs are metabolized through specific liver enzymes. This test may (or may not) indicate which liver enzymes are weaker for you — you would be a poor metabolizer of drugs utilizing those enzymes.
This does NOT indicate which drugs would be effective, but which drugs might be less of a medical risk for you if you are a poor metabolizer via specific enzymes.
This test (if the company that supplies it is authentic) may be valuable to people who seem to have adverse reactions to drugs in general.
If it has been sold as a test to find out which psychiatric drugs might be effective for you, I would be suspicious. That is a vast exaggeration.
The test has nothing to do with predicting who might suffer withdrawal problems.
January 9, 2013 at 4:48 pm
Alto, I never said that he test would indicate anything about WD symptoms,the test indicates as you said ,metabolized through specific liver enzymes.No matter how side effect free a certain AD is to take ,you are going to have WD side effects when you try to get off,that is a given,and i would not advocate that the test will help you take the right AD and not give you mild to no side effects when you stop taking them.The test did show that all the AD’s that my last 3 psychs prescribed for me were in the red zone and I reacted severely to every one,so to me the test has credibility as to what AD’s were bad for me.
I’m just trying help people by telling them that if they feel the need to go back on the AD’s have the test done,basically this test shows which AD you will be able to tolerate with the least amount of side effects while building up in your system,and would be absorbed by the liver and not cause any damage to your liver or other organs,now whether that Ad will do you any good is another story and this is where trial and error comes in,to me it’s a map that has a finite number of options as to which AD;s you would be able to take and stay away from the ones that clearly show you would not tolerate chemical wise.
Again I’m not going back on AD;s, because this test showed that I can not tolerate any drug they have right now,so if a drug company was trying to promote their drugs,i think the test would have come back indicating at least some AD’s I could take/tolerate,again I thought the test was BS and just went along for the ride, but comparing mine to other people peoples test and the fact that i had such a terrible time trying to reinstate my Luxox ,show to me that this test has some credibility.
My Psych has no indicated that she will do what ever is necessary to help with my WD,remember I posted that if my way didn’t work I had to try her way,well now she said i guess were doing it your way, and she has asked for all my sites,because she wants to read for herself what is going on,I’m hoping she sees the light.
Jay
January 9, 2013 at 6:21 pm
The liver enzyme tests indicate only what drugs might be less easily metabolized. There are many other ways psychiatric drugs cause adverse effects that have nothing to do with the liver or rate of metabolization. The tests are of limited use in prescribing drugs.
January 9, 2013 at 9:33 pm
Alto, at this point id say lets agree do disagree and let it go for now.
The problem I see here is,we are truly on our own,and no amount of advice,from you or James or anybody else,(and I know you intentions are good and well founded ) are going to be of any use because you are not qualified to advocate
advice outside of your own personal experience,what worked for you is highly unlikely to work for everyone on the whole.
We are all unique and so are our symptoms and withdrawal,I see a lot of similarities in what we are all going through,but everybody handles them different and react to the same symptoms in a broad spectrum of interpretation as to what to do about them,You can say ,Ive been through it you will be fine to a lot of people, it’s just words, especially when your ready to have yourself committed.
The more I read the more I am weary about who is right and who is wrong,people here are begging for help and telling them to hang in there it will pass, is just not going to cut it for most people.
I try to keep an open mind,but everyday brings me closer to a hell that I don’t know how much longer I can stand.
I’m sure that there are a lot of people who feel the same way,I want off this nightmare ,but I don’t know how to do it.
I have tried to convince myself that maybe this will be over soon, then you get hit hard with another wave and that gets you thinking that maybe you are getting worse and cast doubts about whether you 1) made the right choice 2) am I up to the task 3)whats going to happen to me if I fail.
I have no answers only questions that go unanswered because I have to choose who is telling the truth, and when your in a world of $%^& , your most likely to believe a professional because he/she after all is a DR.
I’m just giving you one side of the coin,if i ever get better I will tell it to the whole world,but for now I’m not holding my breath.
January 10, 2013 at 4:02 pm
Jay:
This is the second post of yours in the last couple of weeks that has not set well with me. You have now what I perceive as attacked two people in written form. One of these people has insight far and above any doctor that anyone of us has spoken with about this subject to my knowledge. You are arguing or disagreeing about a test that is very well established in the medical community on what it does and does not do. I’m sorry I even asked about the name of this test. Your emotional answers are very contradictory at times. These types of posts can be very damaging. You and I and many others are looking for answers that are not currently available that will satisfy our needs. Some times opinions are better left in your own mind and not written. I dont feel well either on a daily basis but this does not give me the right to take it out on other people. And yes I know how bad it gets.
If the doctors can’t diagnose it, medicate it or fix it the only thing we have is the power of our own minds to deal with it. You yourself have acknowledged this pattern of thinking. I’m not certain why you are abandoning this now.
I by no means want to start a fight with you but I also hold this forum and the moderators in high regard and would hate to loose their insights into this horrible condition over a couple bad posts.
January 10, 2013 at 5:35 pm
Dano,I’m sorry if you think my posts are attacks on other people,or confrontational, I post when I feel good and I post when I don’t, take that for what it’s worth,the problem is if we are to believe what everybody here is saying, we were lied to about the AD’s we took by so called Experts/professionals/Dr’s who spent 8 yrs or more in school, that all they cared about was kick back from drug companies,or they never really cared and now they are EVIL,I can and do believe that some really are,but at the same time there are those that do care and I had one,did he know that the drugs were going to cause serious withdrawal side effects,it’s possible,don’t forget I started taking them back in 1980 and by 1983 I was my old self again,more events in my life brought on more pain and suffering,losing my father in August of the same year set me back big time,that same month I went back to the job that almost killed me,3 yrs later I was right back to square one,and losing a 5 million dollar law suit against the company that almost killed me was the biggest set back that I have never gotten over,all because my lawyer was unprepared because PTSD was not very well known and hard to prove, and the list goes on,Ive had over 30 yrs of set backs,so please excuse me if i seem a little confrontational,especially when some one calls them selves an expert.
In my book there’s no such thing,Ive been doing my job for over 25 yrs, would I call myself an expert, No because like the medical field , the IT field changes to quickly for you to become an expert at any one thing,the only thing constant is the fact that nothing stays constant,so If I question some one who claims to be an expert it’s because of what I just wrote.
I too have done a lot of research and have asked a lot of questions and to tell you the truth I don’t know what the truth is.
I want to believe that everything about this board is true,but when you hear about people suffering up to 8 yrs or more,you have ask yourself,how long do I hold out, should I just give in and go back on the drugs?
I am 62 yrs old,do you think I want to suffer for another 2 to 8 yrs provided I live that long,if I was 20 yrs younger I would have no problem answering that question, yes but now ,all I do is think about my own mortality and wonder is this how it’s going to end for me,that my only salvation from this hell is death.
Think about my position and where I;m at in my life,it’s a lot harder to be optimistic when your mind is not your own.
January 9, 2013 at 7:45 am
The name of the test is called Cytochrome P450 (CYP450) tests.
Jay
January 10, 2013 at 11:08 am
I agree, Jay. There really isn’t any specific advice we can give that will make a substantive difference to other people. All we have to go on are anecdotal experiences and intuition. I wish there was more I could do. Withdrawal is like many other mental processes, other people can offer support and advice, but that support and advice may be off the mark at times. It’s frustrating that I don’t have much advice to give other than “hang in there” to most people.
Some of the blood tests that are emerging are used to market supplements or new drugs to people in withdrawal. It’s like the scams that prey on people with mortgage problems. I think that some of the tests are well intentioned, but SSRI effects and withdrawal are still a mystery, even to people who study them. I think the test has value in that it gives you a reference point from which to judge treatments and strategies for weaning.
I know what you mean about waiting until you feel more stable before speaking about withdrawal. I wanted to write about it while I was in the middle of withdrawal, but I knew I wasn’t really in the right frame of mind to do it.
January 11, 2013 at 10:00 am
I don’t feel that Jay started an argument here over the liver enzyme test. He wanted to share something that might help. I can’t fault him for that. The line between critical thinking and hope is a thin one, sometimes. I’ve found myself clinging to the smallest scrap of hope, then turning around and dismissing it out of hand because it failed me in some small way. We started taking these drugs because we were searching for an absolute. The doctor said this would help, so we took it. Turns out, SSRI are filled with inconsistencies and half measures. Neither doctor who prescribed Paxil to me described side effects. In fact, they went to great lengths to tell me that those things happen to other people, or are just bureaucratic regulations, put there to satisfy the effects on a diminutive minority of patients.
Once we get to withdrawal, those platitudes get exposed, and emotions run high. Don’t feel bad about getting angry, it’s one of the most common symptoms. At the same time, we shouldn’t take tests or supplements at face value, either. That’s what concerns me about some of the supplements. Serotonin precursor treatments strike me as replacing one problem with a new one, extending withdrawal rather than shortening it. Once doubt creeps into one treatment, it’s easy to extend that doubt to every treatment. I have trouble with it. I try to keep an open mind about new ideas because one will come along someday, and I don’t want to dismiss it out of hand because of the same rigidity that got me started on Paxil in the first place.
January 9, 2013 at 10:06 am
I’ve heard of this test before, but only in snippets. Some people have expressed concerns that the test isn’t capable of doing what it claims because we still don’t know the specific (biochemical) mechanisms that SSRI/Benzos use. Those concerns were associated with a company trying to sell supplements, though, so I may be wrong about the whole thing. Altostrata probably knows more about it.
January 9, 2013 at 1:14 pm
“The name of the test is called Cytochrome P450 (CYP450) tests.
Jay” — yes, that is the liver enzyme test.
January 11, 2013 at 5:39 pm
It’s my turn to apologize Jay; sorry. I guess I am still hanging on to every little thing even if its just a simple thought or idea. I have been in a stupid wave for several weeks now and I really really want a window. It’s been 13 months now off AD’s. I have not had to deal with bad situations as you but I’m possative that what we are going threw now is very similarly hellish.
I do believe most doctors are compassionate towards their patients and wouldn’t intentionally poison people. I think we agree there are times when AD’s truelly help people. It’s the negative affects after the fact that has not been taught or researched enough yet.
I am still going to tell myself I’m getting better. How; I don’t know but what the hell why not.
January 12, 2013 at 6:49 am
dano, one of the things I try to remind myself is that withdrawal creates a lot of irritability and frustration. I’d say those are the most common symptoms. It changes your personality for a time. I did a couple things that I’m still ashamed of. I try not to let it get to me, I’ve tried to amend for them now that withdrawal isn’t so bad. The frustration gets much easier to deal with. It’s a real relief when you see a situation that would have set you off a couple months before just slide by like it’s nothing.
January 10, 2013 at 9:14 am
Hi guys, well as i said before a few days ago was horrendous, fortunately the following day although not great was 20 times better than the previous day. last night and the night before i have woken up at 1.30am and not been able to get back to sleep due to the anxiety , im hoping tonight will be better as I am desperate for some sleep, so in the last 48 hours I have had 6 hours sleep. But somehow I am not as exhausted as most people would be. I managed to speak to my psych today the original one I have been seeing who started my paxil taper 2 years ago, he was very concerned at my descriptions of insanity , he did say he thought that the fact that I have started a new job and have moved house is probably making it worse, he told me we could try a small dose of medication for a short time but i told him i didn’t want to take anything as i was still clinging on to the hope that it is withdrarawl, plus I want to have kids soon, and most of all I had done 9 months and what if recovery was just round the corner. He also agreed with that and said that it does sound like withdrarawl with a few old symptoms thrown in and the fact that i have had 2 big life changes. He was happy for me to stick it out but did tell me not to rule out drugs forever, which at times i haven’t but I just want to give myself a fair chance to get through this, I am so sure the drugs did this to me, before i ever started taking an ssri I was never ever this bad, but then sometimes i think i need something. I am kind of like you Rachel in the fact that I never felt fixed on the drugs anyway and starting them up is a petrifying thought as when I have taken them before they have made me feel even worse for a few months and i cant face anymore, Sarah I don’t blame you for your decision, if i really knew that if I started a new drug and was fine i would do that and do the slowest ever taper but I have come soooo far, 9 months is a hell of a long time to have put up with feeling this bad, plus I keep thinking well the brain fog has gone so maybe the other things will start to go. I am hanging in for one last push at getting through this, 12 months off I will reevaluate as there needs to be some quality of life. I dont know how I get through the working day somehow it happens with the constant hope that things will get better, I feel the same about people who have kids, how do they cope. If I did take something I would consider that test yet at this time i soldier on! Thanks for all your well wishes x
January 10, 2013 at 11:36 am
I’m glad you felt better. I was worried that you were having a bad wave. I’ve run into the same thing with most of the doctors I’ve talked to. Their only solution seems to be more drugs. I wish there was an alternative way to treat this problem… or at least an attempt to treat it other than chemically.
It is hard to have so much changing in your life while going through withdrawal. Somehow, crises seem to coincide, though. The new job should be one of the first to resolve itself. It only takes a little while to get used to the new routine and learn the responsibilities. Hopefully, removing one stressor will help with the others.
January 12, 2013 at 9:02 am
I slept on and off last night for 8 hours,all broken sleep but what a relief, I don’t feel great today but again so much better than the Worstt day. I was reading a normal women’s magazine yesterday on the train home and there happened to be an article in there about a woman who’s husband had depression,It was such a sad article and then at the end of it and I hadn’t thought it would say this,this is what it said……………he realised it was the medication stifling his instinct. His emotions had been chemically coshed. Against his doctors advice he quit the pills After 8 years. For one agonising year (these drugs are more addictive than crack) it was like fighting the devil for his soul, pulling him, sobbing away from nihilism and despair,then at last my husband returned me full of joy and wisdom gained by adversity, he still has dark moods, we discuss, rationalise and deal but he is recovered……………… So this article that was in my normal monthly magazine that i read to take me away from withdrawal appeared with this, which to me was a success story, like i said the article was three pages about a wife’s account of her husbands struggle with depression, I almost stopped reading it as I thought at the end it would say he is recovered thanks to his medication or something like that, I belive it was a sign to keep going, hope it helps you all not much longer guys and we will get there, I would not have said that four days ago x
January 10, 2013 at 1:42 pm
My comments are indeed from my experience, 8 years of study of withdrawal syndrome. I also paid out of pocket for the P450 cytochrome study, thinking it might somehow help me. I offer my advice only to save others the same mistakes. You can, if you wish, choose to spend time, money, and hope on nonsensical treatments for withdrawal syndrome. There are plenty of doctors, non-doctors, and plain old quacks who will be happy to help you do this!
January 11, 2013 at 5:43 pm
still very curious if anyone has restored their libido or eliminated genital anesthesia by reinstating there an SSRI.? I would love to read stories that people have gotten back their sex drive or gotten back there feeling in their genitals. I’m pretty much starting to think I’m screwed for life here sense Nosuccessful stories have I found
January 11, 2013 at 6:07 pm
Josh
I can’t help you out with a success story. I have not had to deal with that issue. Low Lobito yes but that’s a side affect of feeling pretty crappy for months on end.
January 11, 2013 at 6:10 pm
So u think it will fix libido
January 13, 2013 at 11:38 am
Does anyones windows only last hours. In nine months I have only had literally a couplenof full days that I felt better but I have windows in the day where I feel normal again. Not all days but some days. The windows k dk have certainley dont feel like recovery. Im ready for this to be over now as I so want to start to try having kids and im 37 in 3 months. I cant wait forever but I certainley couldn’t add pregnancy and a child to this nightmare. I dont know how I got through last week it was the worst it felt like when I was tapering 18 months ago I didnt think it coild ever be that bad. I guess I a still going becaue I believe the science behind it and why withdrawal hapens. I am so worried that my windows are so smal I am years away rom recovery and the I will miss the baby window let alone loose more years of my life. I wil get better because I have too! I will repeat this daily, hourley, by the minute. X
January 13, 2013 at 1:38 pm
Hey Emma, i’m going through a wave where i get maybe an hour or so relief every day. this wave has been going on for 22 days. prior to this wave i had a window of 6 weeks with minimal symptoms. I have no idea how wd works and if you’re any closer to or further from recovery if you are having one long wave. on another site a member was saying she had a 6 month wave with no break 11 months out then started seeing quick improvements. our bodies seem to deal with this in very different ways. i am very lucky as i have 2 kids but i would reallu like one more but as you say there is no way on earth a person could cope with a pregnancy and this wd. can you imagine?! 37 is still young- you’ve got a good few years, many of my friends are having their kids in their 40’s. In a few months time you might be feeling much much better and ready to start a family. Rachel x
January 16, 2013 at 5:39 am
thanks rachel, that is comforting to know, anyway 3 months before 37 i will enjoy being 36 a while longer x
January 13, 2013 at 1:42 pm
Emma
Compared to my initial several months after my doctor prescribed two week tapper I am profoundly better. I can honestly say I have only had 1 window of total clarity and it lasted about 10 min. and then the fog returned. My windows sound very similar to yours; typically during the day at work involved in some task when I am not able to dwell on withdrawl and all the stupid symptoms. My dread and panic I believe is somewhat manageable lately. I deal with moderated to severe depersonalization and derealization 24/7. I still have headaches pretty much daily as well.
I drove by myself 4hrs each way to my best friends dads funeral yesterday. Driving for me has bean a challenge but I seam to have made the trip ok this time. I literally couldn’t drive at times only to work 10 months ago. I was very concerned that I would embarrass myself by crying but I was able to keep my composure. Two months ago I could barely watch even a cartoon show and not cry over even the damn commercials.
I wish I could give you a time frame but I can’t. Yes this condition sucks really bad but I think we are getting better.
January 13, 2013 at 3:18 pm
Hello everybody,
I don’t know how to cope any more. For me it seems to have been fluctuating very wildly and widely for about 8-9 ms and range was from very severe to somewhat easier but, beginning around September windows closed and spiraling down and out of control began. Now I am suffering profound anxiety and unbearable depression. Anxiety is causing persistent insomnia and nothing seems to help me with it – I’ve tried numerous supplements, sleeping pills, benzos, neurontin, remeron. Besides, when I take just a single dose of any of above mentioned drugs, they deepen my depression the next day even further. I was adamantly reluctant to see a psychiatrist after having read so many posts and testimonies (I haven’t encountered any story about psychiatrist being helpful in that situation). I did see one briefly who claimed to know this condition – just waste of money and adding more frustration. Now I am at the point that I really can’t stay on my own, but how to find an at least understanding specialist, and, I am afraid, I am ready to take whatever pills to get some relief. I got totally confused with the waves/windows. With me, it doesn’t go the way most people experience. Any thoughts?
January 13, 2013 at 3:56 pm
Also, npanth, when I wrote about my husband’s situation, I was so surprised by your definitive opinion that he’s gotten into withdrawal. He tapered appropriately based on my unfortunate experience, – slowly and with a consistent dose reduction. He didn’t have any symptoms after stopping the drug for 3-4ms. He was definitely badly affected by my sudden and tumultuous withdrawal symptoms and when he started showing signs of decline, I was pretty sure that he was having a relapse of depression. All facts spoke for that: the symptoms were exactly the same as with the first episode, also the typical and specific symptoms of withdrawal were not present. He resumed taking the same drug (Cymbalta), was taking it for 5 weeks with no result, then was switched to Prozac, again – no effect, then Remeron in combination with Prozac – nothing. All these and your conclusion that it was nothing else than withdrawal cast some doubts that it is depression again. He is offered an ECT (electro-convulsive therapy) now since medications don’t work. I, given my condition, in a real difficult situation b/c I have to decide. The treatment could be very effective if it’s depression but what if it’s a withdrawal? Why were you so certain from the first moment you read the post, that it’s withdrawal?
January 14, 2013 at 7:40 am
It may have been presumptuous of me to say that it was withdrawal. The symptoms you described, a window of clarity followed by a long term wave, are consistent with withdrawal symptoms. I ran into something similar when I first tapered off Paxil. Some of his issues may be related to the reinstatement periods. 5 Weeks isn’t really long enough to stabilize on an SSRI when reinstating. Swapping drugs so quickly may also complicate things. Each has slightly different startup and withdrawal effects, even after short term use. It took me almost 4 months to reach a point where I felt I could start tapering again. It was difficult to persevere through all that time because I had both withdrawal and drug symptoms. I know the conventional wisdom on these drugs is that they reach full efficacy within 4-6 weeks. Reinstatement is a common topic on withdrawal forums, and it seems that a month is usually too short a period to see results.
I would be hesitant to accept electroshock therapy as a solution. Almost universally, everyone I’ve talked to who has had it regrets doing it. It may take time for you both to recover from your SSRI experience, but it is a finite experience. ECT makes fairly permanent and dramatic changes to memory and cognition. It’s a difficult decision. Depression can be a desperate, unrelenting, condition. I know it’s hard to think about waiting for several months when you’re living minute by minute.
January 14, 2013 at 9:55 pm
Dear-dear npanth, your observations are so insightful and thoughtful – I wish there were some doctors around, able to analyze and connect the dots with the same capacity. Unfortunately, from my own experience and what I’ve read about other people encounters with psychiatrists – there haven’t been anything close to that – they seem indifferent, arrogant in their confidence that withdrawal doesn’t exist, close-minded. And it’s explainable b/c they have no incentive to admit the fact and step on a risky territory. The factor of humanity is absent whatsoever. You’ve stated that withdrawal is a finite problem. I am not so sure, first because it’s taken such a dramatic, absolutely unbearable turn for me (after 9ms). Some of you manage to work or do something meaningful – I can’t manage to just live (apologize for that, but I am trying to clarify as possible what’s going on with me). Secondly, I’ve run across the article “AD withdrawal syndrome”, quoted below:
“Several receptors–including 5-HT1A–aren’t especially malleable, moreover, and take longer to sprout anew after drug treatment ends, delaying the patient’s return to neuronal health. Indeed, some studies I consulted found that in certain patients those receptors fail to grow back at all, in effect leaving the patients worse off than before. (See for instance “Dissociation of the Plasticity of 5-HT1A Sites and 5-HT Transporter Sites” in Paxil Research Studies 19.3 [1994], 311-15.)”
How would you interpret that? Also, look at the date of study – 1994 – and it hasn’t moved anywhere since then.
Thank you again for your reflections on my husband’s situation. As many on this site, I take your opinion seriously, so what would you do in this situation if not go for ECT? And in my situation also, I was rejected for Hyperbaric oxygen treatment due to unstabilized asthma. I can’t just rely on time passing since my condition is very severe – anxiety, persistent insomnia and depression. I know it’s still caused by withdrawal b/c the intensity is correlated with a squeezing sensation in the head and ears. My options for now are (actually, both are for resistant to drugs depression, not for withdrawal since, as you all know, there is no such thing): there is partial hospitalization program that focuses on group therapies and activities (15 sessions 6 hours each), second – TMS (transcranial magnetic stimulation). I’d appreciate any input.
January 15, 2013 at 12:30 pm
Jane, where is that article “AD withdrawal syndrome” ????
Abstract of the cited article from Pubmed http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8177370 , an excellent resource if you’re going to look for studies:
Neurochem Res. 1994 Mar;19(3):311-5.
Dissociation of the plasticity of 5-HT1A sites and 5-HT transporter sites.
Pranzatelli MR.
Source
Department of Neurology, George Washington University, Washington, DC 20010.
Abstract
To study the early effects of neonatal 5,7-dihydroxytryptamine lesions on 5-hydroxytryptamine1A (5-HT1A) receptors, we measured regional [3H]8-OH-DPAT-labeled 5-HT1A sites in binding assays and compared them to our previous studies of [3H]paroxetine-labeled 5-HT transporter sites during the first month in the same rats. While there were significant time- and dose-dependent effects of 5,7-DHT on 5-HT transporter sites, there were no significant changes in 5-HT1A sites in cortex, hippocampus, diencephalon, brainstem, cerebellum, or spinal cord. 5,7-DHT lesions also did not alter the Ki of Gpp(NH)p at brainstem 5-HT1A sites or the Ki of 5-HT in cortex or brainstem in the presence or absence of GTP gamma S or Gpp(NH)p. There were significant regional differences between the density of 5-HT1A sites and 5-HT transporter sites. The ontogeny of brainstem 5-HT1A sites was a pattern of increases until three weeks postnatal, and 5,7-DHT lesions did not alter the ontogeny of 5-HT1A sites. These data suggest differential plasticity of 5-HT1A and 5-HT transporter binding sites during the first month after neonatal 5,7-DHT lesions.
Do you see the word “neonatal” in the abstract? That means the fetus, in utero. Do you see the words “first month”? That was the length of the observation.
One thing about the Internet is that it’s like a game of telephone. Information is passed endlessly from one person to another who doesn’t understand it and it gets blurry. This makes the Internet a great place to find bad information that you can use to scare yourself if you’re inclined to do this.
January 15, 2013 at 3:58 pm
Hi Alto,
I understand what “neonatal” means but I didn’t read the abstract that the article referred to, it might be a misleading link. I have no idea how it’s related to the fetuses or infants and my state of mind is not in a good shape, I can hardly concentrate to read for a few minutes. But the article itself speaks about adults in regards to reaction to AD’s and effects of withdrawal to my understanding. It has nothing to do with infants. Here is the link to the article:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/side-effects/201107/antidepressant-withdrawal-syndrome?page=2
January 15, 2013 at 12:43 pm
Sorry, meant to say neonate indicates exposure to the fetus, in utero.
January 15, 2013 at 2:59 pm
I’ve read several articles along the same lines. The brain is static and suffers permanent damage from SSRI. I personally don’t believe that is true. I think there can be individuals who suffer extended withdrawal. Withdrawal seems to have a very individual effect on people. One friend of mine spent almost 4 years recovering from a cold turkey off 90mg/day Paxil, Lithium, and a handful of other pills. His case is about as extreme as I’ve seen. He went through a terrible and long term recovery, but has completed that recovery at this point.
Since the 1990’s, the idea of brain plasticity has gained more acceptance in the scientific community. It’s an intuitive line of research. Instead of divorcing our minds from our brains, we’re starting to recognize that changes in our minds are reflected in physical structures within the brain. It’s a quickly evolving area of study. It’s hard to fathom that we don’t know nearly as much about the structure and function of the brain as we thought. It’s easy to assume that all that knowledge has already been gathered, that the answers are complete. Think about it this way. This is considered the golden age of astronomical discovery. We’ve been looking through telescopes since Galileo’s time, but we haven’t truly started to understand space until our time. We’re not omniscient, either. we make profound discoveries about the makeup of the Galaxy every year. The same applies to the study of neurophysiology. Things that we assumed just a decade ago are being proved false or incomplete now. that’s why I’m reluctant to recommend things like ECT. My friend had ECT. Looking back, he doesn’t think it helped his recovery. Time seems to have been the only thing that really made a difference to him. He also has problems with memory and cognition that he attributes to the Electroconvulsive therapy. It was a permanent solution to a finite problem. I think ECT as a treatment will be modified or less available in the future as we come to understand that the detriments equal or outweigh the benefits.
January 16, 2013 at 5:42 am
dano you sound like you are improving! x
January 13, 2013 at 6:04 pm
Hi everybody,I just want you to know that I am still here and want to apologize for my erratic behavior.
i have been collecting a lot of data and i am compiling a database from many websites and forums.
What i’m doing is collecting data which includes drug history, length of time , strength , circumstances that got you started,
poly drugging,and a whole lot more.
I’m hoping this information will give People like us and Medical Doctors a real good look into the hell that has spawn from
Misleading information and the ignorance and reluctance to accept what the medical profession, pharmaceutical industry
has done to Millions of people all around the world.It is a great undertaking and when I started to collect information,the more I was determined to go ahead and do it.
I will be popping in from time to time,right now I’m setting up the criteria that will have a flowchart and graph depicting
each individual’s timeline, no names will be mentioned only unique ids will be used.
I’s time we showed the world what is really going on with our lives and just maybe get the recognition and help we so desperately need.
That all I want to say for now,and hope everybody feels better.
Jay
January 14, 2013 at 7:47 am
Hi Jay, no need to apologize. Withdrawal is an erratic, stressful, thing. I’m glad that you’re turning your effort towards something constructive concerning withdrawal. That determination, as much as anything else, is one of the best ways to deal with withdrawal.
January 14, 2013 at 8:29 am
Jay please don’t apologise. There really is no need. Jay i love your idea of collecting data, If you need any help with the admin of this please let me know. What we need is data and data we can present and others in this turmoil case access. We’d need age, gender, drug history and duration, taper method or ct and a way of listing symptoms and presenting them as data over months, Info on any supplements and diet could also be added. Reinstatement could also be monitored. Noone else is going to do this for us and if we could collect thousands of case studies of pure data we might be able to give answers to sufferers and the medical profession because surely if there was a huge database people would have to listen. If youthink of the thousands of people who have written their stories on PP – it’s great but it’s not easily accessible information. It would be good if there was a program where new sufferers could enter their information and update. Let me know if I can help you. Rachel
January 14, 2013 at 9:22 am
Hi Jay, please also let me know if I can help too in this…..
January 14, 2013 at 9:26 pm
I’m really glad that you are receptive to my Idea,I do need help and I am trying to put together a means in which I can show every aspect of the process from why we started to why we are trying to get off,also a list of symptoms,from starting the AD’s (poly drugging any Benzos and sedatives)to withdrawing.
Every possible question,every bit of information will be compiled into a presentation that will be sent to every Medical, Pharmaceutical and MD I and few friends can get our hands on.
Please feel free to suggest anything you feel important,you can post here or email me,all information will received will be strictly confidential ,no names or personal info will be used.I am drafting up a form that will ask specific questions and from there this information will be turned into a excel spreadsheet or PP presentation not sure yet. I want this done right and with a little help from my friends we can make a difference.
I have support from other sites and people have been most co operative,I’m finding it very disturbing to see what allot of people have been going through,and are really desperate for help.
I will check in later this week,don’t hesitate to post anything you feel important that should be on the list.
Thank You
Jay
January 15, 2013 at 6:14 am
Hi Jay,thats a great idea about the form, maybe you could post the form here or we can send you our email addresses to send the form too and we can fill it in with all our information, experiences etc
January 15, 2013 at 4:33 pm
Jane, I looked at that Psychology Today article and am corresponding with the author, Christopher Lane, so I can read his references for that particular factoid.
I don’t think neonatal rats observed for a month are particularly relevant to the question of how long it might take a human adult to recover from withdrawal syndrome.
(By the way, this is how I responded July 2011 to the same downregulation-upregulation question at http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/883-survivingantidepressantsorg-in-christopher-lanes-psych-today-blog/page__view__findpost__p__7655
“Not all antidepressants work on 5-HT1A.
As a knowledgeable doctor told me, there’s so much redundancy built into the serotonin system, even if some receptors did not upregulate, others would take over — neuroplasticity again.
Please do not worry about these hypothetical issues.”)
Instead of looking for confirmation of your worst fears — which, because everything is represented on the Internet, you are guaranteed to find — how about researching neuroplasticity? This might give you a better idea about how you might recover and focus your attention on thoughts that will be more supportive of healing. People here would surely appreciate what you find out.
You might also research lifestyle or habit changes that might lessen your symptoms and not think so much of more psychiatric treatment, as that seems to have not done much but make you worse.
January 15, 2013 at 9:36 pm
Not by all means have an intention to offend or negatively affect anybody, but, Alto, your tone sounds a bit of condescending to me which in my very-very grave condition is hard to accept. It’s almost the same as the doctors’ denial and complete non-understanding of withdrawal. They also advise to listen to a cheerful music or something like that. I think we could be more sensitive and accepting. I am desperately searching for something because there is no way I could rely on time (I really didn’t mean to say that but you kind of force me to – I am suicidal). I apologize to all who read this site. My situation is greatly exacerbated by pre-existing Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and other related conditions when the very same autonomic nervous system had been impaired already before withdrawal. Everybody’s situation and the level of vitality is different and let’s not make the judgments or conclusions based on your own experience. Also, plasticity of the brain is a very general term. I’ve read 2 books on that topic and it’s a very complex matter to describe in just one blunt sentence. Different groups of neurons have different ability to regenerate or recover (for example, neurons that are responsible for the sense of smell are more prone for restoration). Some of them could grow from brain stem cells more readily than others. Also, the casual rule of “use-it-or-lose-it” fully apply here. It’s not that simple.
January 16, 2013 at 5:56 am
jay hang in there it will get better x
January 16, 2013 at 12:57 pm
Jane, please reach out to someone if you feel like your well being is in danger. Even a hotline can be helpful in the moment. I know how you feel. It’s hard not to search for any kind of information to explain what’s happening. For a long time, it was nearly an obsession for me. It’s disappointing that many of the answers aren’t clear, or conflict with each other. I read a similar article while I was in the middle of withdrawal. the idea that I had permanently damaged my brain by taking Paxil was frightening. It almost didn’t matter that I read other articles refuting that assertion. I agree that plasticity doesn’t fully describe the complexity of the process. There are some mental exercises that can help the process. Keeping mentally active is a good way to promote the process. It’s hard to do that when you’re in what a friend of mine calls “bunker mode”. I thought that the only way I could get out of withdrawal was to pull myself out. Turns out, I had to wait until I was ready to become more active. Once it started, it sort of snowballed from there. It’s hard to believe it will happen when you’ve been living with symptoms for so long, but it does. It’s the kind of thing that you only recognize after you’ve made progress, too. That’s one of the hardest parts of withdrawal. I didn’t realize I was getting better until I really had to think before I could remember when my last bad wave was.
January 16, 2013 at 11:31 pm
Thank you for your support, npanth. It’s not exactly that I am looking for info to explain what’s happening. I’d like to understand why I am getting worse consistently. Does it mean that I didn’t hit the bottom yet? Looks like the other people experiences do not apply to my case. Could you try to explain that? Of course, what I am feeling makes me to think that the process is going on the opposite way, I really would appreciate if there was a glimpse of hope in terms of any window, even a bleak one. I saw a psychiatrist today who does TMS treatment. He is aware of the condition but all he could suggest is to address the symptoms. He couldn’t promise any positive outcome with this treatment, so I wouldn’t spend so much money for something the provider himself has doubts about. But I can’t reconcile with the fact that there is nothing on earth that could be helpful.
January 17, 2013 at 9:27 am
It’s hard to say where the bottom of withdrawal is. It’s different for everyone. It was overwhelming anxiety for me. I had a job interview that went well, but I was curled up on the floor by the end of the day. That was the bottom for me. The day started with hope and happiness, but ended with pain. I couldn’t even get up to eat for a almost a week. That’s when I reinstated. Since then, I’ve had much more stressful interviews and encounters and made it through them without problems, even as my dose of Paxil goes down. It’s frustrating that it’s so hard to realize that we’re making progress until after it happens. I still felt like I was at the bottom even as I got up from the floor and started to move around again. I’m not sure what treatments make the process easier. It was just time for me. I know that’s not helpful. I’m sorry.
January 15, 2013 at 4:46 pm
npanth, in response to your post today that starts “I’ve read several articles along the same lines. The brain is static and suffers permanent damage from SSRI.”
I’m reading Peter Breggin’s Psychiatric Drug Withdrawal (which contains very little about psychiatric drug withdrawal and nothing about prolonged withdrawal syndrome) and I do not believe his theory of Chronic Brain Impairment has any validity. (See discussion here http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/3579-peter-breggin-avoids-addressing-post-discontinuation-symptoms/ )
I believe the purpose of this theory is to scare people away from taking psychiatric medications. Unfortunately, it’s scaring people into wanting to go off drugs quickly.
It’s also the kind of misinformation that contributes to these endless rumors that go ’round and ’round the Web about permanent brain damage. (Note: “Chronic” does not mean “permanent.)
January 16, 2013 at 6:01 am
Hi guys, feel like I have been away ages, as we have moved house we have no internet connection until the weekend. I am now 8 days into new job and I am coping, the commute to London each day is killing me, 5 hours a day return trip and then a full day on top of that, I am however powerwalking 30 mins each morning from the train, . anyway as for my head, the first week was so bad I thought I needed to be sectioned however the last 2 days and today seem to be much nearer to where i want to be feeling, i don’t know weather to call those days windows as they dont feel like recovery but they certainly feel better, i will keep hangin in there, and pray for baby time soon, as soon as the head gets better i will be able to take on anything x
January 16, 2013 at 1:57 pm
Hi. everybody, just checking in and just want to throw this out there.
All day yesterday I had mild anxiety and it peaked to overwhelming at 8pm.
I took a 1mg XR 1/2 hour before the peak ,by 9 pm I was experiencing pure fear,I mean I was afraid for my life.
This is something I never had before,and today I have mild anxiety again.
I went from 1 mg fast acting to 1 mg XR ,taking 1 in the morning when I get up and 1 around 8 pm.
Do you think I have screwed up again by changing the Xanax and has anybody experienced this type of symptom.?
I was ready to run to the hospital,I just don’t know what to do .and my APRN has not returned my phone call placed this morning at 8:30 am.
January 16, 2013 at 2:08 pm
Hi Jay, I’m not sure about Xanax in particular, but psych meds in general can cause spikes in anxiety and depression. It may be an adverse reaction to the new medication. I hope it’s just a temporary thing.
January 16, 2013 at 9:59 pm
Npanth ,I appreciate your response ,I am really pissed off at my APRN for not returning my call today.
I took the XR a little sooner tonight and I seem to be ok for now,I think I am coming into that stage
of waking up in the morning with anxiety and going to be the same way,I have logged this in my personal journey from Benzo/SSRI’s withdrawal data sheet.I guess i have put even more pressure on myself by starting this data base of,
Personal experiences of Psych drug withdrawal .
I will have a questionnaire sheet soon and will post,but I must say that I was hoping for a little more than 1 reply from this board,I have hundreds from other sites,in fact I had to create rules to redirect inbound emails to a specific folder.
I really have my job cut out for me and as I feel better i will devote more time to sorting out all the details and start logging.
i have a friend that is also helping and is an analyst that does work for Medical offices.
He is very intrigued and also surprised,because he was unaware that this was going on,one thing he did say that caught my attention was the fact the our President is so hot on Mental Health reform because of the New Town Tragedy,Now is the time to bring to light what is really going on with Treatments and Medication especially if this is wide spread as I say it is.
I told him if you think I’m making this up here is a list of sites for you to get some insight in to what you are getting yourself into.
Time will tell if I am doing the right thing.in the mean time I need more info from this site,if it is a problem please let me know now, so I’m not wasting my time,not directed at you npanth, I got one reply so far and that’s not making me feel I’m doing the right thing.
Jay
January 17, 2013 at 4:57 am
hey Jay I hope your anxiety has calmed down a bit, it is excruciating at times. As I type I am at my desk at work with my heart bouncing out of my chest but my head feels fine, it always seems like if its not one thing it is another and if you kiss good bye to one symptom something else occurs. Anyway I feel bad I have not replied about your logging information, I would love to help and will fill out anything you want me too, let me know how I go about it!! x
January 17, 2013 at 5:55 am
Jay, i tried replying to your email the other night and I got a message that my reply was permanently rejected? it could be that people can’t email you? So sorry to hear you’ve had a terrible spell. I’m going back to the doctors on Saturday. I was reading about viatamin B12 deficiency looking into why i have this awful pain around where my liver sits I think and one of the symptoms of B12 is an enflamed liver. Also tingles, anxiety, numbness. All fits. I’m sure it’s still WD but i’m going to get checked out.. Jay as i said anything i can do to help you – let me know. Rachel x
January 17, 2013 at 6:10 am
Jay
Sign me up!
January 17, 2013 at 5:17 pm
I checked my email and everybody should have no problems emailing me,i will have to check the exchange server and make sure that you are not getting a blocked user code.
Emma,I am at a new wave of symptoms and your right ,just when you think it’s safe to go back in the water,bam!
no rush right now to email me ,I am flooded with emails and have sent them on to my friend to be categorized.
my email is jvbsr@optonline.net ,again if you have problems let me know here,I will double check again just make sure no one from this site or any other is being blocked.
I will get back to .
Jay
January 18, 2013 at 5:04 am
Just to clarify jay do you want me to just email you my story of withdrawal? I have had 4 days of what I felt was surely recovery after such an awful awful time and it was heaven to feel 80 percent normal. But today I fell bad, sheer terror and panic and scared and depresses, all the bad stuff, hope that tomorrow brings better times. It is just so cruel when you get a glimpse of where you want to be and then it is snatched away, I had forgotten in 4 days what the terror and feel felt like and then right back, but I believe I had my biggest window yet these last 4 days after my worst wave so if this rubbish that I feel now is a smaller wave then I will feel that I may be on my way to recovery, for the last 4 days I haven’t even had to speak to anybody about how I was feeling, today I want to tell everyone how bad I feel. I pray for more days like this week, how are you all x
January 18, 2013 at 5:14 am
Hey Emma, the fact you had those 4 days of 80% normality is a very very good sign. I’m sure more windows will come to you soon but it’s so awful that the terror and panic have returned. It’s unbelievable isn’t it? I just keep thinking ‘get to 18 months’…. I’m having a bad time at the mo. Really bad pains all over and horrible anxiety. I’m feeling worse than I did in the summer. 6/7 months ago. My life is completely ruled by this. Glad you’re getting lots of responses Jay 😉
January 18, 2013 at 6:28 am
How long have you been off again Rachael? Yes I am hoping that window was the way forward, shame was whilst feeling so much more normal my husband was away working so he didn’t get to share in my joy, however he didn’t have to worry about me while abroad, terrible snow here today in the uk, and he is supposed to fly in from germany tonight and I doubt it will happen but I will be ok. Just to let you know my shrink told me to eat two tablespoons of plain untouched pumpkin seeds a day as the tryptophan in them helps with serotin, I have done this religiously for 4 weeks and I am not sure if this contributed to feeling better last week or not but it can’t be bad as they are sooooooooo good for you anyway. I want to enjoy my life again hope it happens soon x
January 18, 2013 at 6:56 am
Hi emma, pumpkin seeds it is then!! I’ll try them! Anything to help. I’m 10 months off the posion. Yes I’m up in worcestershire and snow is pretty bad. My son was pleased though- he got to take his sledge to school! I’m sure you’re going to get another break soon. My wave has been 26 days so far. No break ;(
January 18, 2013 at 7:25 am
Ahh another uk a person I thought I was always communicating with the USA! I had my longest wave ever before the last 4 days, it is harsh but we survive somehow, what were u on? I feel on the edge today like I am minutes way from slipping into feeling insane! It is extreme, have you joined recovery-road Facebook page, it helps me so much, they have posted a great article on there today by a guy called matt who as a survivor has written a book soon to be released and what he says is so true! X
January 18, 2013 at 7:41 am
Aye, another Brit. I haven’t joined the FB group. To be honest i never told anyone i was going on sertraline apart from my husband and parents so noone knows i was on them so if it suddenly appeared in my profile that i’d joined that group all my contacts would be rather surprised… I’m still dealing with feelings of guilt that i’ve done this to myself. I guess i could register on FB under another email address and join anonymously. I can’t really speak to anyone about what i’m going through. there are a few UK sufferers – a few on pp and a few on Altos site I think one of the admins on there is from the uk. It would be great if we could all meet up but people are generally too ill to travel. Snow still falling fast – I’m supposed to be working so better crack on – fortunately i work from home so rarely have to leave the house. I completely get the ‘on the edge’ i feel wide eyed and almost insane x
January 18, 2013 at 9:33 am
Ahh Rachel it is so nice to speak to you, I am down in Portsmouth so miles away from Worcester. I know what you mean about the Facebook thing, I don’t mind that people can see that I have liked it as it is called recovery road wellness and all sorts of people like weird things, I’ve liked some heavy metal rock band that people would be more than shocked at definitely more so than the recovery , I don’t post on it though as I don’t want people that are on my Facebook seeing that stuff, no need, I just login and read the inspiring posts from the woman who runs it who is a survivor. I don’t mind telling anyone about what I am going through as I have always been a sharer and it helps me because not one of them has told me it is time I got over it, they are all supportive, all my close friends and family know and are there for me 100 percent. I haven’t told my employers but it my last job I let my boss know, I won’t be telling them in this job unless I feel I have no choice, I thought I was going to have to last week but luckily I didn’t. I describe it to people literally as plane as this “I was on anti depressant medication for 12 years, I chose to come off and unfortunately being off of them is like coming of off heroin, it is a proven condition that I am suffering with and will get better in time, please be gentle with me and also bare with me, I would change it if I could” that normally does the trick, I described it to my husband as the night he found out his father had passed away times it by 100. Although it is unfair for me to say it is like that but the doom is like that. Anyway on a positive note the recovery Facebook page also has a website you should look at that but if you haven’t read the lady bliss johnsons book you really should I read it all the time when I am really bad. Today I am still managing to hold back the insane feeling and hoping it will stay at bay for the rest of the day, I too am working from home but am getting nothing done fast!!!!
How long were you on the drugs and what for and what are your symptoms, feel free to answer that at your leisure, we are literally on the same time frame offi think x
January 18, 2013 at 12:59 pm
And by the way I would definitely travel to meet up for something in England x
January 18, 2013 at 2:38 pm
Hi Emma, I’d taken sertraline twice before 4 weeks in 2001 and 5 weeks in 2006 and stopped with no issues. This time was different I wonder why. This time i was only on the drugs for 6 months (oct 2011-March 2012) Initially presecribed for minor depression – no anxiety! I’d been feeling down about returning to work from maternity leave and also my hubby had lost his job. They helped for a few weeks then i started to get bad stomach pains and i knew it had to be the antidepressants and I wanted off.. Once i stopped I knew straight away that I was in WD because I’d never had anxiety in my life before or any physical issues and suddenly i was in hell. LOL about the heavy rock metal band- i’m sure people don’t really notice what you like anyway they are so focussed on their own lives. I’ll go and check recovery road out. We’ll definitely have to try a get together – people really need face to face support don’t they? So you were on for 12 years? Did you ever try and come off before? Finally finished my work for the day! going to have a bath of epsom salts – i find they help with my anxiety…
January 18, 2013 at 2:54 pm
Just read the article from FB link -absolutely brilliant 🙂
January 18, 2013 at 3:59 pm
i don’t know what happened to my post, It seems it did not go through or was deleted.
I must be going mad,because I saw it get posted.
I’m going to use word from now on and then copy and paste from there.
I’m going to have to rewrite the post again,sorry I don’t know what happened.
jay
January 18, 2013 at 8:39 pm
This will give you an idea of how cruel this condition is.
I started the week out monday very good. Very little fuzz brain and a pretty good mental state. Happy that the week was starting out decent. I was talking to one of the guys in the welding shop literally thinking how nice it was to enjoy shop talk. Then bam a wave of virtigo hit me so hard I could barely stand. Not wanting to cut of the conversation abruptly and alarm this guy; I held onto a welding machine and let him talk. I could barely walk to my office. I’m sure they thought I was drunk becuz I could barely walk a straight line. This episode ruined the next couple days. Today started similar with good mental status and decreased brain fuzz. Well it happened again this afternoon. Instantaneous virtigo. I actually feel lost from reality for a few milliseconds then it slowly goes away. I think this phenomena has been called a brain shutter. I was in my office sitting so it wasn’t so bad this time.
Its as if my subcontious mind will not allow me to feel better. I was briefly given a repreave from hell and it was stripped away instantly with no warning.
I don’t have a choice but to continue to wait for this to get better and it will damn it!!
January 19, 2013 at 9:07 am
Dano,what your experiencing is a panic attack,I use to get those all the time,they are really debilitating and as you say can knock you down for a long time,and they always come when you feel good or least expect them too.
Panic attacks are non life threatening,but they sure make you think they are.
I’m sorry your going through this,those are what drove me to a Psych in the first place,I was put on a panic blocker and Xanax and that is how I got where I am today.
Now I still have Dizzy motor control problems with extreme anxiety thrown in for good measure.
The anxiety is something I never had before and it’s a new symptom I have to deal with.
Given time this will pass ,just hang in there.
Jay
January 19, 2013 at 9:56 am
There aren’t any posts in the pending area. I’m not sure why it didn’t show up. WordPress’ comment system can get a bit wonky at times.
January 19, 2013 at 3:57 am
Hey Dano I can totally relate to that, not the vertigo but the feeling relief and thinking ok this is alright today and then literally bam, doom, freak out and you are right it only lasts a tiny while but because it knocks you for six it is almost like it scars you for the next few days. It was the same for me yesterday, I had one of the best nights sleep I had in months and months, woke up feeling depressed but more fed up, but nothing I couldn’t handle, I was doing the washing up and totally out of nowhere a wave of sheer terror linked to nothing so I spent the rest of the day petrified it would happen again. It’s weird I look forward to my days off thinking I can relax but when the weekend comes there is no chance of relaxing as I am so unwell. My motto this morning at 2am in my head was I can handle this, I will handle this. And because I feel rubbish again today because of no sleep I keep distorting my memory of the 4 good days I had this week thinking actually I probably wasn’t bettering like I thought I was, but I know I felt better those days as I didn’t need to come on here and I didn’t talk to anyone about withdrawal . It is horrible I am going to read the success stories in the recovery and renewal book today to keep me going . Almost 10 months off so I am ever hoping the changes round the corner and these waves will get less. Rachel glad you read that article it is so true isn’t it!!! Briefly, at the age of 21 I was Put on trycillics for anxiety, which I am one hundred percent positive was induced by pot smoking, I was at university at the time and from the age of 18 had smoked pot everyday so I believe it was a form of paranoia induced by the pot, anyway the minute I was put on the trycillics have never touched a joint since, I then came off them around 23 with no problems, but still had not really treated the anxiety problem, then at late 23 I was in an accident and started having panic attacks again but at no point did I have depression, as I told the doctor I was sad that I couldn’t enjoy the things I wanted to enjoy like going out and drinking with my friends, but I had not experienced depression at this point, just racing heart, which could have been treated so differently and would have been these days I have been told, but as it was 13 years ago drugs were the only answer really those days. I think the worse thing was I was in Australia travelling at the time and when I had been on trycillics in England the doctor had said to me take them travelling with you and if you start getting anxious again start taking them and then go and see a doctor there and get more as they had worked for me in past. So after the accident I started feeling anxious and self medicated with the trycillics and as with anything I have ever taken it made me feel worse before it made me feel better, so went I finally went to see a doctor in Australia And my anxiety was made even worse by the start up of the trycillics, I can kind of remember before I started taking them again and I wasn’t that bad, and I could have been in withdrawal from stopping the trycillics 6 months prior. Who knows, anyway I was put on seroxat/Paxil at the age of 23 for anxiety, although I was weirdly diagnosed with post traumatic stress disorder ( which I understood) but also major depressive disorder when I had said I was only depressed that I couldn’t enjoy myself but I didn’t feel depression. So I started taking the drugs, the anxiety got worse but as usual I was told I would feel worse before I got better, so I pushed through and started to feel better, I took the drugs and when I got back to England I saw a doctor to get them on repeat prescription, they said i could take more so I did and I ended up being on 60 mg, I remember one doctor saying to me I would have to be on them all my life. So 60 mg was the highest safe dose you could be on and for a couple of years I was perfect, I moved to London not knowing anyone got a job in the industry I wanted to be in and all was good, lots of drinking and fun with friends. And then although I can’t remember when I came down to 40 mgs and then 20mgs and was fine, I did those reductions instantly too, no tapering and that was all fine, then a year later I started to obsess about things and think I was feeling bad again, which I now know was tolerance withdrawal, so the doctor would increase my dose again and when that happened I would go through a huge depression for 2 months and then start to get better, so the only time I ever had depression was when I increased the dose of the drugs or I hit tolerance, but I can honestly say I never ever had depression until I started the ssris, I can’t really remember as far back as the trycillics but ssris definitely bought on depression. So every 2 years pretty much for 12 years I went up and down on the seroxat but never attempted to come off of them as i thought they were helping me but as anyone could see from what I have just said, even if they know nothing about withdrawal it is pretty obvious it was the drugs making me ill. The thing thàt annoys me is if it had been today I would have been treated with meditation, yoga and maybe a short course of beta blockers but instead I had years of my life compromised. I try not to fixate on the past and I don’t really I just want to get better. So fast forward to 2009 and I had an awful episode of depression on holiday couldn’t do anything ( again tolerance withdrawal) but I went to the doctors and we agreed not to increase the drugs again as I would want to come off them in the future to have a baby, and somehow from that I got better for a few months and then I hit rock bottom, the worst depression ever again, tolerance, I was weeks away from getting married and everyone kept telling me it was stress of the wedding although I kept saying it wasn’t as things like that don’t stress me at all and I really enjoyed organising it, so on my wedding day I was at rock bottom, it was awful and all throughout the day I was praying for it to end as I felt so bad but I got through it and in a really weird way I can still look back on it with fond memories even though I know I was so ill. I was crying the whole day, couldn’t eat dinner and obviously didn’t drink ( I havent drunk since the whole withdrawal thing as it just makes everything worse,)’ so finally in February 2011 I went to see a private shrink as I couldn’t take anymore and I thought if I had a heart condition I would go to a heart specialist so I needed to see someone really trained in the brain. The first thing he said was seroxat no longer worked for me and he couldn’t believe I had been on it for sooooooo long without any doctors realising it wasn’t working, so he said we would taper me off the seroxat slowly as he said it had bad withdrawal and would put me on Prozac to make the withdrawal more manageable and then see what drug was for me ( not if I actually needed the drug or not as remember I had never had depression) , so ( and sorry this is taking so long, I am on one now), I was put on 20 mhs of Prozac and taken down 2 mgs of seroxat every 2 weeks ( at this point I was only on 20 mgs of seroxat ), for 2 months with the taper and prozac i was much better, still a few complaints mainly my feeling of wanting to cry it not being able to do which had always been my biggest problem on seroxat, but I defiantly was not always depressed, I thought it would only get better as I got the horrible seroxat out of my body, it was so weird as I had a check up with my shrink and said I was feeling well apart form the crying thing and he was pretty happy, within a week I was back at his office saying I felt so depressed, doom, dread, fer, scared, crying, unbearable life, and he said oh I wondered when this would happen, that is the seroxat withdrawal kicking in, so he then increased me on Prozac to hope it relieved the horribleness, he told me what ever I’ did do not self medicate with more seroxat which I didn’t, he said I just had to get through it, so by this point I was on my honeymoon which we had already delayed for 6 months because I was so unwell, so I took the plunge and went on a 3 week round trip of the USA, and I don’t know how to this day I got through it, I was awful, but again still look back at it with fond memories, iris amazing how we can change our memories. Anyway I was so bad while we were away I called the shrink and said can i just stop now, I felt like I was stringing the pain out but being on 2 mg. so that was it for the next 2 months I was just on 40 mgs Prozac but I wasn’t feeling any better ( obviously as I was in withdrawal) and still felt like I needed to cry and couldn’t, so the shrink said Prozac didn’t work for me and was going to try an Snri so he took me off Prozac in 1 week ( bad I guess no taper ) and started me on snri venlafaxine. I was on that for 6 months and felt ok but still like I need to cry and couldn’t and just thought this is pointless ( I didn’t know anything really about withdrawal then only from seroxat and all the press that had) I was trying all these drugs and didn’t know what was actually working for me or if I needed them or if the were making me worse, so I said to my shrink can I just try nothing, he said he was worried I would get depressed again and I said well if i do I will take something, but my original symptom of needing to cry but not being able to had not gone away, I didn’t feel even half good, existence was just easier that was all, and nothing could ever be as bad as the seroxat taper so let me try and he did. That was 9 and a half months ago and here I am, the best times in the last year was the month I was tapering of the venlafaxine, yes 1 month I was taken of all AD medication after 13 years of solid use, doesn’t matter what brand it was my brain was quashed for 13 years and then set free in 1 month, no wonder I am in withdrawal, so the month taper was good and then the first month of nothing was also good, but then 1 month after nothing it hit me, awfulness, and somehow I have managed to foot work everyday, go to some social engaments and up until recently was able to sleep. So now I have waves and windows, more waves for sure, I can’t get happy about anything, I live in fear and sedan ness and anxiety and depersonilastion and derealisation, I worry about things that i shouldnt ageing, dieing, being this way forever. And yet sometimes for a few hours I can feel beautifully fine with not announce of worry or withdrawal feelings. I will keep going as I am sure from these glimpses of wellness that it impossible to feel content ( not happy) but content all of the time, I know life happens and i can handle that buti just want to feel normal again, and now as I have been on and offin the AD nightmare for 15 years if you count the trycillics I wonder if have ever been week. My parent assure me I have been and was a content child and teenager so I cling to that. I am so scared of life going to quickly and yet here I am praying for each Day to be over. I eat super healthy, and don’t drink and walk lots so can’t see one more thing that I cando, I think I am going to start to write a book though as I think that may help getting it’ll out, this certainly has helped this Saturday morning, I hope haven’t bored you all with this, maybe today will be turning point x
January 19, 2013 at 10:15 am
I had a similar experience. Up until I started taking Paxil, my depression sprang from social anxiety. I had trouble dealing with social interactions, which made me frustrated, which made me depressed. It was never overwhelming or debilitating. When I started taking Paxil, the nature of that depression changed. Suddenly, I was getting inconsolably depressed every month or six weeks. It came on like I was getting a cold, lasted a week or so, then faded away. At the time, I thought that Paxil was the only thing keeping that steady drumbeat of depression from becoming chronic and overwhelming. Other than the acute, episodic depression that I now associate with withdrawal, I haven’t had that steady depression. Turns out, Paxil was making me depressed. It’s strange how the drug self inoculates itself. Even with the problems of withdrawal, I feel that I’m better off without the drug. It was causing me more problems than it was solving. I’ve had glimpses of myself without the drug, and that person is much better than the drugged me. It’s something worth striving for, despite the problems. hang in there 🙂
January 20, 2013 at 4:11 am
I’ve just realised I hadn’t slept properly for 8 months, I am exhausted,. A few months ago I could sleep till 5 am before anxiety kicked in, so I knew I was getting at least 6 to 7 hours but now it is totally broken sleep, waking up at all hours anxious, scared and basically done in, I have just told my husband i will go to the movies with him today which I hate doing but I am trying this new book called face the fear and do it anyway so my fear is feeling bad at the cinema and the loud and light but I am going to do it anyway as I have to start living as this withdrawal seems like it is planning on hanging around!!! Every morning I hope will be a glimpse of my new life but still nothing x
January 23, 2013 at 9:49 am
It felt interminable for a long time for me, too. I would say that the worst part lasted for almost a year. I don’t mean to scare anyone else reading this. The time it takes to get out of that prolonged wave varies from person to person. It wasn’t unrelenting, though it felt that way at the time. The times when I was completely disabled influenced my perceptions of the rest of the time. It wasn’t until I had a prolonged period without major symptoms that I started to lose that fear of slipping back every day.
I think that you can mitigate the power of waves by remembering the times when they lessen for a while. I know it doesn’t seem like they come and go because the difference is so slight. I get a lot of comfort now by comparing the symptoms I get with those I had before. Now, I get the same symptoms, but they’re much easier to control. They don’t disrupt my life like they used to. That’s the remarkable thing to me. They’re the same thoughts, the same emotions, but they just flutter at the edge of perception now. I’m only aware of them because I try to be mindful of what I’m experiencing.
I took a long time to reach stability. That initial fast taper really disrupted my mind for a long time. It took me months to get stable after reinstating. It was several more before I really started to feel that I had control over the symptoms, instead of the other way around. I know it’s a long road, unfairly long. The person who is emerging on the other side is stronger and more empathetic than I ever was while taking Paxil, though. There doesn’t seem to be any upside while you’re going through the long wave, but it leads to greater strength of character eventually.
January 23, 2013 at 3:27 pm
I’m hoping it leads to a stronger more cherished life, I miss having fun and wanting to have fun. I have realised today though as bad as it is most of the time, the brain fog has gone for along time now so hopefully that is a sign of things starting to regulate x
January 21, 2013 at 12:16 am
Hey emma, sorry your still stuck at that wave, i hope it passes soon.
I am now into one of the worse waves I have ever experienced and I appreciate what your going through,I wish I never reinstated,because I would gladly take the GI problems over this rebound anxiety/Wd mix,it is so intense sometimes that i just what to die and get it over with,I awoke yesterday afternoon from a nap to a pounding heart and nausea,I thought this is it it’s finally happened,I was going nuts trying to figure out if it was real or another bout of anxiety, I gave it sometime and i started to calm down so I guess it was another bad anxiety attack,I would rather have the panic attack at least I recognize the signs.
I have a physical coming up and I have sick visit with my GP tomorrow, I think i have a touch of the Flu,I’m going to get a rapid test just to make sure.
I just want every one to know that i made a post concerning the documentation of our ordeals with these drugs and for some reason it din’t post,anyways someone else has already done a similar write up about what I wanted to do,I came across it by accident,I was following links from other sites and one link lead me to his,I have already emailed him and asked if I could use his model for my own use, and modify it.as of yet I have not gotten an answer.
Its very detailed and what bothers me is that it never got the attention it should have.
In the Mean time.
I am very pissed off at my APRN for not calling me back,not once but twice, I called her number and got an answering machine, at the end of the message it said if this is an emergency to call this other number ,so I did,It turns out the number is the covering Psych who just happens to be her Boss,I told him how she never returned my call Tues and finally talked to me Thurs.I told her what was going on and she was going to go home that night and setup a schedule that would help with my rebounding anxiety and would call me Friday a 4 pm,which she did not,I explained to him that I took the day off so that when she called I wouldn’t be interrupted,he told me this was unacceptable and asked if he could help,I said it’s to complicated, so he said try me,so I did, he was so sympathetic and suggested that I take the quick acting Xanax and break it in half and take it every 4 hours,he told me that 1 mg was way to much to be taking and this would help stop a lot of the rebounding anxiety,he said that he will make sure she calls me Monday,we will see,because if she doesn’t shes all done.
It just doesn’t get any better than this, I guess we are truly on our own.
Jay
January 23, 2013 at 10:04 am
I had a similar experience when I went to doctors for help. The only solutions I was given were more pills and indifference. I don’t think there is any official solution to withdrawal. It either frightens or confuses doctors. They are so thoroughly convinced of the invincibility of these drugs they can’t accept that they cause these kind of withdrawal symptoms. My doctor really pissed me off when he told me that I had some latent psychosis. It was so obvious to me what was happening. I went to great lengths to explain what had happened to me. He had to make a huge stretch into the ridiculous to maintain his belief in Paxil. He believed in the drug more than he did in his patient. That felt a great deal like abandonment to me. I had to become “medically non compliant” before I could start to get off Paxil. I think you’re right, we are on our own in a way. We only have communal and anecdotal advice to give each other. It makes withdrawal longer and more painful, which is truly a shame.
January 22, 2013 at 4:02 pm
Oh jay I am so sorry to hear the ordeal you are going through. That doctor who isn’t returning your calls sounds awful, I wish they realised how this is life and death to us. I understand your feeling of not wanting to be here to turn it off, I get that sometimes. Let us know about this piece of writing you are talking about. The anxiety is horrible I sympathise with you, mine is worst at 5 am and has been consistent now for 9 months, I think I have had 1 nights sleep that I slept later with no anxiety, I find like today for about 5 hours I had bad anxiety in the day, it feels like my heart is going to burst out of my chest and I get burning up my back, if I chew a few heartburn tablets it takes the edge of the racing heart, I have done this for most of the 9 months, hope it helps, I just wish each night for the next day to be turning point, hang in there jay, if the stories I read are to be believed, we will get better x
January 22, 2013 at 10:57 pm
Hey emma,I get that burning and tingling sensation and racing heart now too,I tell ya if it ain’t one thing its another.
I heard from my Psych on Mon,she had a little bit of an attitude and ask me what can I do for you,I said you were supposed to call me last Fri. @ 4pm, then her whole demeanor changed and then she apologizes and said she is an air head and completely forgot,then she asked what I didn’t call her and i said I did,so she said it’s ok to call her private # and in the future if she doesn’t call back when she said she will to call her,I said don’t worry I will.
I see her This Thurs,and we are going to talk about tapering off Xanax,I’m bringing the Ashton manual with me and I’m going to insist on following this to a tee,on the other site I’m on they are having great success with it.
I had a reasonable day today but as soon as I get home around 5 pm the anxiety starts to kick in,right now I will tske what ever I can get,It gives me hope that this is going to end some day.
Hang in there, here’s some smiles for you. 🙂 🙂 🙂
Jay
January 23, 2013 at 4:33 am
that sounds better jay, she obviously feels a bit guilty. I have read so many good things about the ashton manual. really good luck with that, try the heartburn tablets. smiles back x
January 23, 2013 at 5:37 pm
Something seems to be changing??
I still feel like crap when I wake up and thru most of the day but something physically and mentally feels different. I had a few week reprieve from the head aches but now they have been back for two weeks. It’s very hard to explain but even with the head aches I am having longer periods of lessened brain fog and depersonalization. It’s as if I am waiting all day for the panic or dizziness to pound me back to where I have been for so long. I am actually afraid to be happy and am always on guard against what was.
Last week when I was happy is precisely when the virtigo hit. The reality is that I want to jump for joy and rip my cloth off and run thru the house or office screaming I am better over and over again. It’s hasn’t topped 15f in Michigan for a few days so the naked part is probably out; talk about shrinkage. Sorry I digressed. I know I’m not cured and maybe I am just wishing but damn I sure feel like I deserve a glimps of what could be. We can all make it through this!!!!!
I presented my bi annual status report yesterday to the company. I felt pretty good before and during but it was after that I felt pretty bad for the rest of the day and night. Still have work to do on this condition but here’s to better a better life!
January 24, 2013 at 7:27 pm
Hey Dano, it’s called anticipatory anxiety ,you are creating it by doing just what you are doing worrying,those attacks are really devastating when they happen ,and they almost always come when you least expect them to.
Hang in there ,deal with it and they will go away.
Jay
January 24, 2013 at 8:17 pm
Jay
Your exactly right!!! I think because this has gone on so long our minds kinda expect the crappyness. It sounds stupid but when i do get a glimps of clarity I think my mind says holly cow you don’t deserve this so let’s feel crappy again and boom back to crapville. My own mind is addicted to feeling crappy; I think it likes it for some reason??
Breaking the cycle of naturally induced anxiety is as hard as breaking the dependency of AD’s. I’m giving it my best shot though. Day by Day!!
Wishing everyone wellness.
January 25, 2013 at 2:22 am
I agree with you Dano that we are now programming ourselves to feel crap. I have decided when I see my life coach this week instead of spending the time moaning about withdrawal i am going to ask her to work with me how she would with someone who came to her for anxiety and depression so I might as well learn how to treat it even if it is from withdrawal, I feel like I sit and wait for withdrawal to go without really trying to get rid of it other than healthy eating and exercise, I can’t meditate as I am too agitated x
January 25, 2013 at 7:08 pm
Hey Dano how are you,?
I read an interesting article about the pathways of our brain, it seems that when we are on these drugs pathways are cut through our brains and and are repeatedly used over and over and the sad part is when we start to taper off this drugs the brain still uses these path ways because it easier because they are already there,when we start to heal from the damage that the drugs have caused,these path ways are imprinted with bad memories,the theory is that these bad memories will improve when they are replaced with good memories,so when you are feeling bad or are going through W/D the best thing to do is try to think about something good in your life,be it a place you went, a vacation anything that you experienced that made you happy try and think about that.
Emma,This goes for you too, try to put yourself in a happy place,I know it’s hard but lately,I think about places and people who have had a positive impact on my life and focus on that for awhile,I will pull out old pictures, .videos ,letters from friends and will read or watch them over and over again,I had a 3 day window that was fantastic ,but now I’m having mild annoying Sxs and they are nowhere near as bad as they were a few weeks ago,I also have a stomach Flu ,which is not helping at this point,everybody in my office is or was sick, so i new it was just a matter of time before I got it..
Wishing everybody good days,
Jay
January 26, 2013 at 7:22 am
Hey jay that is great news about a 3 day window!!!! I slept for 7 hours last night and did not wake anxious, I still feel incredibly down today and on the edge of a freak out but I am grateful for the sleep. I will try and think of happy times,.I try and visualise how great life will be when I am better, that helps x
January 26, 2013 at 9:11 am
Jay
I went to see the Harlem Globetrotters last night. It was very entertaining. I usually don’t do we’ll in crowds but it was very tolerable last night. The wife and kids had a really great time as well.
Typically I can’t get past the overwhelming symptoms to think about a happy time or place. I think this will become easier with reduced symptoms tho.
Waking up today feeling just ok; hoping for a enjoyable weekend.
January 24, 2013 at 1:25 am
Dano I think that sounds like a positive move. One step at a time hey. Like i said my brain fog has gone but I still feel totally unwell, my question to you npath is in your research when I am waking up panicky, scared and anxious in the morning, most of the time I have horrible thoughts of just sad things, the whole loosing people close to me, dieing and just doom, is this common do you know, I know in my life I have had mornings where I just wake up I’m tired and I get up and go, happy to start the day day, I want to wake up grateful and content will that ever ever happen for me, god I hope so, I try so much to shift my thinking and positive affirm but it just doesn’t work, is this withdrawal??? In the words of Dano come on better life. Just to add to the withdrawal the daily 5 hour commute I have in my new job is not helping at all!!!!! X
January 25, 2013 at 2:16 am
It’s weird i dont feel as bad as I have yet I don’t feel improved. I woke up at my sisters house this morning as I am staying their while my husband is away, the usual 5 am wake up call after waking up all night and I just feel nothing, anger at being unhappy, depression anxiety, and I can hear my sister get up and she is all cheery with the children and normally when I am we’ll she is the moodier out of the 2 of us. That’s how I want to wake up every morning, it doesn’t have to be jumping out of bed happy to be alive, it just needs to be contentment, like waking up thinking yeah I feel fine, good day lets get on and enjoy, that has to be possible. Fortunately in my new job I have been given 2 days a week to work from home which makes things so much easier for coping i hope. Almost 10 months off now, wow that is a long time, will I see a change soon, I have beet told a good time frame to work towards is 6 months to 2 years, I’m hoping I can crack this in 18 months, anytime earlier would be amazing but I have to think if I’m not better then to keep going. If i was feeling this way I am feeling now in another 8 months I would like to think that I would persevere. Change is on its way, lets say it all together x
January 26, 2013 at 2:34 pm
Hi everyone,
I have never posted here before, and just came across this website last night. I was thinking maybe I could offer a little hope to everyone going through what I used to call “withdrawal hell” because I know what a scary lonely place that was for me years ago. I was always looking for hope from anyone who had been through this and had gotten better and went on to live a normal life again because at the time, I was convinced I would always feel that way. I was reading down through a lot of the posts and I had sooo many of the same symptoms you all are having. Over the years I had forgotten about a lot of them. I guess it was a way of coping with it afterwards to forget that nightmare. But I wanted to tell you all it really does get better. Your symptoms will start to fade over time. Everyone I had met going through the withdrawal when I was or who had before me, has gotten better. It’s just seems everyone is different as to how long they will go through it until the symptoms start to fade. A friend who had gone through it before me told me back then, that the only way out of it (it being withdrawal) was through it. Doctors were no help to me during that time and I realized I was sorta on my own…until I had found a support group online and met some great people to help me through it.
Stay strong guys, as horrible as it is right now…you will get better!
January 26, 2013 at 4:08 pm
Michelle, thank you for your encouraging words. I’ve going through this hell for almost 1.5 now (counting taper period and I started to feel horrible right away). Could you tell a little bit more about your journey (what drug were you taking, how you were getting off and how long it took for you to start feeling better), if you can remember. Also, did you find anything helpful at all during that difficult time? Thank you
January 26, 2013 at 7:35 pm
Hi Jane,
I can completely sympathize with the hell you are going through. The withdrawal I went though started in February of 2003 right before I turned 27 years old (what a nice present huh?), so it’s been 10 years, but I do remember a lot about it. I had been on Zoloft for 4.5 years at that point. When the withdrawal started I hadn’t even started tapering or anything, but from what I discovered later on, my body had built up a tolerance to the drug and I started withdrawaling and didn’t even realize it. It took me 6 months to figure out what was going on. I had only been on a dose of 50mgs (had been taking ativan off and on while on zoloft, but I got off of that before the zoloft withdrawal started thankfully). While I was on zoloft my doctor would try to raise the dose and I would not be able to handle it, so I just stayed at those 50mgs (I think I was very sensitive to the drug). I had tried a number of times to come off it, but I could not handle all the symptoms I would get. Even if I just missed one dose I felt ill. My 3 kids were very young at that time and it was very hard to take care of them. I felt like a prisoner to that drug all the time.
Anyway, for the first 1.5 years, I had had a lot of physical symptoms. What I mean by that is I practically lived in the bathroom during that time and would wake up every morning in pain. I am guessing because most of your serotonin is in your gut, maybe that is why. The nausea was unlike anything I can describe. Morning sickness a women gets during pregnancy, doesn’t even begin to descibe how that felt. My skin would feel very tight and tingling, and felt like I had a sunburn. I would wake up in a panic sweating and my heart would be racing. Dizziness, headaches. I can’t remember when the “brain zaps” started, but they didn’t last too long. Well when I finally realized what was going on I decided to cut the Zoloft dose in half. BIG mistake, but I didn’t know any better. Well all those symptoms got worse. But months later when I realized I shouldn’t have done that, I decided just to stay on the 25 mgs until I felt a little better, which took quite a while. During withdrawal I slept maybe 3 hours a night.
I wish I could remember when I started finally tapering off the last 25mgs, but I know that took me quit a while. I was so afraid to make any changes and feel any worse I would only shave the tiniest amount off and do that for months before I would shave some more off. Someone told me later on that they had liquid zoloft so, I switched to that towards the end when the pill got very tiny. From my understanding it should take 6 months for every year you were on the drug to come off of it.
So after the first 1.5 years all of the sudden most of those symptoms went away. I felt okay..almost normal for about a week and then BAM! What I consider the hardest part started. The most intense anxiety I had ever felt started! It was a feeling of “impending doom” or like being on the edge and coming out of my skin. This lasted about a year before things started to improve. There were times during the day it wasn’t as bad for me. Mornings were always the worst for me, by the afternoon it would let up a little, but it was still pretty bad. I had a hard time sitting still and a lot of times I found myself pacing back and forth. My body was in a constant state of panic. Even just getting the hiccups would throw me into a panic. I would obsess about my breathing…it was just terrible. I felt like this ledge I was standing on, if someone even breathed my way that I would have fallen off. It was like this black cloud of doom following me every where I went. Those probably aren’t very good analogies, but it’s the best way I know how to describe it. I thought for sure I would end up in a psychiatric hospital.
I remember when the bad anxiety had started I had talked to someone who had been through it and she said I may feel that way for a year. OMG…I could barley make it through a day, I had NO idea how I would make it through a whole year! But I did, and after that things were improving, the symptoms weren’t near as bad and all completely faded away. During the withdrawal period I had days I was feeling better, I had these glimpses of feeling “normal” and little by little those feelings lasted longer.
I wish I could give you a better idea of when symptoms went away and my tapering process, but I was such a mess and was struggling to take care of 3 young kids, and like some of my friends did, I didn’t keep a journal of my progress.
I know I had quit a few other symptoms I dealt with that just aren’t coming to mind now. But by far the worst was that drug induced anxiety!
I can tell you some things that helped me. I was told during the withdrawal process that the reason in the mornings that I felt especially bad was because of my blood sugar being low which is why I felt shaky so often. I was told that was common for people going through withdrawal. I was told as soon as I woke up in the morning to eat some raw almonds. That made a big difference because right away I would feel better. Also lemon water is great! When I would feel really bad I would squeeze the juice of half a lemon in about 1/4 cup of water and drink it. That helped with the anxiety and I felt better. And then I would sip on lemon water though out the day. Also chamomile tea. I would boil some water and use 2 tea bags of chamomile tea to make it strong. That was also something I sipped on throughout the day. Even when I had to go places I would bring a cup of that tea along just to take the edge off and get though whatever I had to do.
I found the “Bach remedies” from the health food store helpful as well. If you google those there are a bunch of different remedies they have for different things. I used remedies from nativeremedies.com for anxiety and dizziness that were helpful. Also I found that some essential oils helped, too.
I hope something I listed will be of some help to you!!
Michelle
January 26, 2013 at 9:13 pm
Interesting about the raw almonds. I also found fresh citrus to be calming.
Michelle, if you can, please share your story of recovery from withdrawal syndrome with us at http://survivingantidepressants.org We’re always looking for people who’ve been through it and can give other tips about coping with this grueling condition.
January 26, 2013 at 11:25 pm
Altostrata,
Sure, I will check out that website. From my understanding the raw almonds help balance your blood sugar. When blood sugar is low it can cause someone to feel shaky, jittery, anxious and such, so I guess that’s why for me, it helped and at least took the edge off. Some of my friends who had gone through withdrawal had issues with blood sugar during that time especially in the morning, too. Such a shame so many people have to go through this horrible experience, but so glad there is support online for people to find help…hope!
Michelle
January 27, 2013 at 12:19 pm
What we’ve found is it is hypersensitivity to light causing the morning anxiety; using blackout shades in the bedroom and sleep masks helps some people. Perhaps low blood sugar plays a role as well, or the blood sugar correction competes with the exaggerated rise in morning cortisol to reduce anxiety.
January 28, 2013 at 7:40 pm
Altostrata,
That is very interesting about the hypersensitivity to light in the morning. Low blood sugar is something I never dealt with before going through withdrawal. Same think happened to a friend of mine, he had the same issues going through withdrawal that he had never experienced before and still deals with it years later. I deal with low blood sugar at times even now. It got better over the years, but still runs on the lower side. When I start feeling jittery and anxious I just make sure to eat and I feel better. Wish I had known about using blackout shades and a sleep mask during the withdrawal period, probably would have helped a lot.
Michelle
January 26, 2013 at 10:34 pm
Hi Michelle,
Thank you so much for your such a revealing, eye-opening and astounding story. That’s a ready to present testimony (hypothetical though since it doesn’t seem plausible to get it out to become a bomb for the medical and pharmaceutical establishment that manage to have disguised and denied the real facts for so long, getting more and more people on the hook of the drugs). The anxiety/depression/sleeplessness phase you described is so much like I am going through right now. How did you go without sleep for so long? I eat raw almonds but never tried it first thing in the morning. I tried many supplements and teas with a calming ingredients but nothing seem to help. So looks like you’ve endured all that without any drugs, not even for sleep? Also, do you remember if you had a squeezing sensation in the head, pressure in the ears? Your story’s reinforced my assurance that it’s withdrawal, not depression relapse that the psychiatrists I saw so far (4 or 5) were trying to convince me into. Some of them do know about withdrawal and admit it but still insist that it couldn’t take so long, it’s long passed and now what I am experiencing is nothing else but depression. Did you feel depressed during that period and how intense it was? Thank you again for your time and compassion. You can’t imagine how valuable your story is – I am going to print it out for myself (I am not so naive to use it as a tool to persuade the doctors – they don’t listen, don’t believe, don’t want to make any effort to change the situation and help the sufferers – I’ve tried to do that many times to no avail, just made me much worse, frustrated and devastated).
January 27, 2013 at 12:14 am
Hi Jane,
I am more then happy to help if I can. I remember how much I appreciated help when I was going through that and always told my friends that “if” I made it through that, I hoped I could help someone else.
I don’t remember all the details of the withdrawal, but still remember quit a bit. The not sleeping was very difficult for me. It was the only “break” I got from feeling so bad. I think after a while, my body sorta got used to the lack of sleep. I didn’t take any type of medication while going through withdrawal because I was so worried about becoming dependent on something. I remember people telling me to try not to take a medication for sleep because a lot of people become addicted to those during that time. I don’t know if that is true, but it was enough to scare me into not taking anything.
I used only natural remedies to help at least take the edge off at times some of the symptoms.
I did have the squeezing sensation in my head and the pressure in my ears. That took a little while to go away, but it did go away for me. Gosh thinking back there were soooo many different strange symptoms I had.
As for the depression, yes I had depression coming off of zoloft. My doctor had prescribed zoloft for anxiety and panic attacks and told me there were no side affects and no withdrawal from the drug and could just stop it at anytime…um….yeah, sure!
Anyway, I don’t know if the depression was from the drug or because of what I was going through for so long. I’ll admit I thought about death quit often as a way to not feel bad anymore, which I guess is selfish coming from a Mom of 3 young kids, but going through that experience is such a mentally challenging thing. And of course the lack of sleep didn’t help any.
Also, after I started feeling better I went through times where I would just start to cry….sometimes I would cry for an hour for no reason. I hardly ever cried while on zoloft. I was told by some friends that was normal afterwards. Sorta getting your feelings/emotions back after being “numb” from the drug for so long.
It was just so hard for me to feel emotion being on zoloft. And I am an emotional person. While I was on zoloft my 6 year old niece had passed away from brain cancer and it was really hard for me to “feel” that sadness, I was sad but had a difficult time grieving and crying. I felt like a monster. She passed away in 2001 while I was on zoloft, and I finally grieved her loss close to the end of 2005! I mean it literally hit me one day and I couldn’t stop crying.
As for doctors…I went to a doctor, (different doctor then the one who prescribed zoloft because he had moved) because I was just very desperate one day… he came in and said…okay so what drug are we putting you on next. And I said um NONE! I said I am going through withdrawal and he said, well withdrawal only lasts a few weeks, you shouldn’t be feeling anxious like this. He said when you start to feel some anxiety take a half of ativan and sit down and think about what is making you feel anxious.
Okay, I am in no way a violent person, but the thought crossed my mind that I sooo wanted to throw something at him! Then I started telling him about all the research I found online about withdrawal and the other people I met going through it withdrawal for long periods of time. And his reply: “well you probably know more about those drugs then I do”. Nice huh?
Plus I had been off ativan for a while and didn’t want to start it again!
Oh one thing I wanted to mention in case you haven’t tried this before, but towards the end of my withdrawal I came across a website that talked about “EFT” (emotional freedom technique) and I thought it was the strangest thing I had ever read and just left the site. For months while reading things online I would keep some how coming back to this site over and over again from links off of other alternative sites. Well one day I decided to read more about it and actually try it out. Well this actually helped me a lot! It really helped with all the emotions and such I was dealing with after withdrawal. Helps with anxiety, depression and all kinds of things. I still to this day use it. It is a psychological form of acupressure, where you just use 2 fingers to tap on your energy meridians (the places where they put the needles in acupressure). I still deal with anxiety at times (not the withdrawal type of anxiety) but just your every day stuff and this helps a lot…or if I am going through a rough time it alos helps.
Its free to learn and lots of websites out there with info about it. Oh, and even youtube with lots of videos to teach you. But there are free downloadable manuals out there. Also a few years ago I came across something similar called “TAT” (Tapas Fleming technique) Sometimes when I am having a bad day I just hold the “pose” they use during that and it is very calming.
You may have already come across those sites, but thought I would mention them just in case. I know it looks weird at first, but gosh it’s amazing how helpful both those techniques are.. no side affects…and both free to learn! 🙂
Michelle
January 26, 2013 at 11:25 pm
Forgive me, Michelle, for taking advantage of questioning you. Did you experience extreme irritability, anger, rage? Also – what about your weight at that time – gain, loss? Thank you.
January 27, 2013 at 12:22 am
Hi Jane,
Oh it’s not problem at all and please don’t feel you are taking advantage, I am happy to help! Oh my goodness did I ever experience irritability, anger, rage! I would be soooo angry at times I would have to go down in the basement and just scream in a pillow and be throwing things around (didn’t want to do that in front of my kids). And those emotions are soooo opposite of my personality! Most people who know me know I am very laid back and a calm person. It was almost like I was a totally different person during those times. As for weight loss….oh gosh yes…I lost a LOT of weight. I remember when I went to the doctor that time and they weighed me I was shocked by how much I weighed. I mean after having 3 kids I had wanted to loose weight, but not in that way ya know. A friend had told me that I looked like her sister did who had passed away of cancer. Yeah I got very thin. But gained weight back again when I was feeling better and able to eat more.
Michelle
January 27, 2013 at 1:15 am
Oh, Michelle, it’s impossible to overestimate how eloquent and telling your story is. It’s so impressive for me because every single thing you describe resonate with and mirroring my symptoms, feelings – like you are reading my mind. Thank you so much. I did try EFT (I don’t reject anything I come across, even the modalities that sound very weird) but I guess you have to be a little be off the edge to get the benefit of it – I was in my worst shape and when I tried to do it I kind of exacerbated the panic and anxiety from, let’s say, yesterday when I was using the technique to alleviate this anxiety, in the first place. Sorry for messy and confusing description but the whole thing is so messy and confusing – very difficult to be clear on that topic. It reminds me how doctors question me: “What symptoms do you have?” and their tone is already full of doubt and disbelief. I am taking remeron now for sleep because I couldn’t fall asleep for 7 nights in a row and ended up in the hospital (yes, in a psychiatric unit). I was also very scared of any drugs, given that even a single dose of anything would get me so depressed next day but I had no choice, otherwise I would have to rush to the ER almost every day. Remeron is a tetracyclic antidepressant and has a sedative effect. I had to reconcile with the fact of going on (again!) on antidepressant with the hope that that class of ADs do not cause such a profound withdrawal syndrome, besides I take a small dose. Michelle, it’s the first time when I really got some glimpse of hope after reading your story and getting the detailed answers (thank you) to my questions.
January 27, 2013 at 1:54 am
Jane, You are so welcome. I am glad I was able to help in some way. Wow 7 nights in a row of no sleep, I could not even imagine! I hope the Remeron helps you sleep. You have to do what is best for you to be able to function in life..I so understand!
Over the years I have had kidney stones and have had to go to the ER and sometimes have to be admitted to the hospital for complications. I still question everything they put in my iv. I know it annoys the nurses sometimes, but you just never know. One time while I was in the hospital for a stone, my doctor prescribed something for me to sleep. I asked the nurse what she was giving me and she had to go look it up because she didn’t know…she comes back and tells me it was an AD?! I never asked for something to help with sleep and because of all the pain meds I was getting, I felt very relaxed and was able to sleep anyway. Just amazes me sometimes how freely they prescribe these. Surely by now most doctors have to know about the possible withdrawal symptoms from AD.
I really hope that you’re feeling better soon!!
Michelle
January 27, 2013 at 10:22 pm
Hi Michelle, I seem to have an endless list of questions to ask you (I apologize) since you are the only person on this blog, who ‘s successfully come out of the ordeal that we are all experiencing here, left it behind but retain the memories of it intact (probably, because the memories formed, while emotions were so prominent, take deeper roots) and are so kind and willing to look back and share with us who are still suffering. This time the question is actually about the memory – had it been affected, you think, in what way? I have so serious memory problems – I don’t know though what’s behind – ADs themselves or withdrawal, may be insomnia, most likely all the above. The dynamics of your withdrawal process is so similar to mine (physical symptoms are a little different). Also, I have a very weird thing going on with me – whenever I am not asleep (almost all the time at day and night) there is a nagging tune, one or another, that accompanies me non-stop – I can’t get rid of it. Those flashed happen to people once in a while after listening to the music (that’s how it was for me before withdrawal) but now it is just haunting me all the time (and mostly the melodies that I haven’t heard for years) – a “gift” from withdrawal, no doubt. Did you have problems with thermoregulation – either hot or cold. Dissociation, depersonalization? So, if I understood correctly, withdrawal lasted about 2.5 years for you, counting the tapering part? Thank you.
January 27, 2013 at 10:01 am
thanks for sharing michelle it helps loads, i have found your story very encouraging today whilst feeling bad, I am making myself go to the movies with my husband today altough it is the last thing i really want to do x
January 28, 2013 at 9:18 am
I lost about 80 pounds during the bad part of withdrawal. I didn’t realize how much weight Paxil was adding to me until my pants started falling off. I’m with you… I wouldn’t recommend the Paxil diet to anyone, but the weight has stayed off for more than a year, now.
January 28, 2013 at 8:23 pm
Hi Jane,
I hope I am replying under the right place so you get this.
Yes, memory was an issue for me back then. Prior to taking zoloft I had a great memory, but seems while I was on it it was hard to focus or remember anything. And then going through withdrawal I had even more trouble remembering things. I would be talking to someone and half way through a sentence, forget what I was going to say! That was pretty frustrating. My memory over the years has improved. I think not sleeping can also affect your memory. So between the withdrawal and lack of sleep, I can certainly see why you are having trouble with your memory.
I can’t remember if I experienced the same thing with the tune you had mentioned. I do remember hearing all type of weird noises.
When you mention thermoregulation being hot or cold. Do you mean did I feel hot or cold all the time?
I dealt with Dissociation. I remember times when I was having a conversation, I felt like I wasn’t really there. Like I knew I was there and heard myself talking, but I felt like I was somewhere else. Not sure if that made sense. Or like when my kids would be talking to me and playing, I knew I was there, but felt like I wasn’t..sorta detached for everything and everyone. I didn’t feel like that all the time, but at times I did. Hope that makes sense.
Yes, the withdrawal symptoms I had last about 2.5 years.
Michelle
January 29, 2013 at 12:37 am
Thank you very much, Michelle for sharing different aspects of your story with us. It’s amazing that you remember so much after 10 years have passed. What I meant by “hot and cold” is actually getting hot and cold “inappropriately” regardless of the current temperature. You’ve mentioned about some “residual” symptoms you and your friend have many years later. Did you have those before withdrawal or you think it’s an unfortunate consequence that withdrawal left behind?
January 29, 2013 at 12:45 am
PS. You described dissociation exactly how I feel and probably many other feel it. I just can add that I observe what’s going on around me as if you are not here, like I’ve crossed the border and entered another space and watching from there – very unpleasant feeling to put it softly.
January 28, 2013 at 8:28 pm
I lost about 60-70 lbs during the worst part. I just felt too sick to eat. I gained some of it back over the years. I don’t know if anyone else experienced this, but I also had a lot of hair loss. I am guessing from lack of nutrition for so long. But as I got healthier it all grew back.
Michelle
January 26, 2013 at 10:31 pm
Quote” Dano Says:
January 26, 2013 at 9:11 am
Jay
I went to see the Harlem Globetrotters last night. It was very entertaining. I usually don’t do we’ll in crowds but it was very tolerable last night. The wife and kids had a really great time as well.
Typically I can’t get past the overwhelming symptoms to think about a happy time or place. I think this will become easier with reduced symptoms tho.
Waking up today feeling just ok; hoping for a enjoyable weekend. Quote”
Dano,your making good progress,I too hated crowds, I was so afraid of having a panic attack and how people would react,this is the problem with people like us,were more afraid or embarrassed by what people will think that we become introverts . I missed a lot of gatherings and events in the past that now I wished I had gone to, but the past is the past and now it’s time to move forward,my emotions right now are all over the place and what helps me is I try to keep busy and try to get out more,last weekend I took a ride with my Wife from Ct. to R.I. stopping in Niantic for lunch and just taking our time going from town to town,it really helped and I got to see things I would always pass by but never took the time to look at.
I have 6 to 8 weeks yet before i can start my Benzo tapering,this will really test my faith in myself because it is going to be a lot harder to do than SSRi’s.
Good health to everyone,
Jay
January 28, 2013 at 7:27 am
hey jay, great news that it isnt too long before you start your benzo taper, I am sure it is a scary thought but it will get you one step closer to where you want to be. I keep reading that everyday that passes is one step closer to recovery. I have had a good morning, really felt the joys of spring and was content and feeling pretty ok, I now have gone down hill but it was a glimpse of the good to come. Last night i went to the movies with my husband for a 2 and a half hour movie and I really didn’t want to go as I hate being in situations like that when i feel unwell but I went and after thinking it was too loud and flashy for me to cope with i really enjoyed it so making myself do stuff is clearly the way forward. One thing is true we are all troopers and dong everything we can to help ourseleves x
January 28, 2013 at 9:21 am
Glad you have something to look forward to, Jay. Don’t try to hard to stick to a calendar schedule when you’re tapering. I got myself into trouble because I dropped my Paxil dose on the dates in my tapering spreadsheet instead of going by how I felt. You’re an old pro at this by now, I’m sure you’ll approach it with the same diligence you have everything else. Good luck with it.
January 28, 2013 at 8:36 pm
Thanks Npanth,I have read where you should not rush to the finish,patients is a must.
i have to post this,I don’t know why I didn’t before.
about 25 years ago my wife started to lose her hearing do to nerve damage,she was always suffering from vertigo and at times I had to go and pick her up from work,because she could not stand or walk,we finally went to a neurologist who put her on of all things Paxil ,this really did the trick and she no longer suffered from vertigo,but the hearing loss progressed and she finally lost all her hearing 4 yrs ago,she had a Cochlear implant and has 80% of her hearing back and is about to under go another operation to have another implant,we were talking about my symptoms the other night and I she said to me ,remember when I was so bad with vertigo ? and I said yes,she said about 2 yrs after taking the paxil ,she quit Cold turkey and never had a problem, not one,can you believe that? I sad that’s unbelievable ,because so many people are going through hell right now and you got away symptom free,then she reminded me about her hearing and i felt like an idiot,but just goes to show you that these drugs effect people in so many different ways that at any time it is quite possible that you could be symptom free at any given time,so I have been living with a person that was able to quit CT and never new she stopped until 4 yrs ago,so there is proof that it will happen ,we just gotta give it time.
Hang in there everybody.
Jay
January 29, 2013 at 10:25 am
I’ve talked to several people who quit without issues, too. It’s very confusing to compare their experiences with what we’re going through. There seem to be three classes of withdrawal. Those people who don’t have any trouble, those people that have bad withdrawal, and people whose withdrawal symptoms are misdiagnosed and treated with new drugs. Separating which people are which is very hard. How do you tell when a person is suffering from withdrawal or an existing/new condition? From a doctor’s perspective, I think it’s very difficult to tell. Especially when they only have 10 minutes to make that determination.
I recognized my own symptoms as withdrawal because the onset was very closely tied to my tapering. Now that I have a year’s worth of perspective, it’s quite obvious that my symptoms come when I drop, and dissipate as my taper progresses, reappearing when I do another taper. Making the tapers smaller decreases the severity of symptoms. I wish I was one of those people who could just stop taking Paxil without consequences. Be careful about underestimating Paxil, though. I’ve talked to other people who were able to stop taking SSRI without issues once, but had bad withdrawal when they tried to stop taking it a second time.
January 29, 2013 at 12:32 pm
I believe we’d see far fewer cases of groups 2 and 3 if doctors adopted routine gradual tapering techniques.
January 31, 2013 at 4:21 pm
I don’t foresee doctors coming to the realization independently. Doctors and manufacturers have too much faith invested in the infallibility of these drugs to accept that they are causing such problems. I don’t see regulators forcing the change on doctors and manufacturers, either. The incestuous nature of pharmaceutical regulation protects the status quo, which places the burden of proof squarely on the patient’s head. It shouldn’t be the responsibility of patients to describe and treat this problem. We aren’t qualified to place SSRI withdrawal into the broader context of medicine and regulation. We’ve been forced into that position by passive and active resistance to examining existing dogma. A doctor that tells his patient that he is psychotic, when that patient has only ever suffered from social anxiety is stretching credulity and patient/doctor trust unacceptably. Any system that is so blatantly opposite to the way it should be must fail, eventually. It will have to be patient driven, though. More’s the pity.
January 30, 2013 at 3:17 pm
wow jay, and you never knew x
January 31, 2013 at 10:11 pm
nope,she said after the vertigo was under control she said it’s been 2 yrs since i had an episode so she stopped taking them , I never new it ,till we went to the surgeon who did the implant.
jay
January 27, 2013 at 8:24 pm
Hi emma,
I didn’t see an option under your post to reply, so just making a new post. I am glad my post helped and encouraged you! I hope you start to feel better soon!
Michelle
January 28, 2013 at 9:23 am
I increased the reply depth on the blog to 4 levels because some of the threads were getting quite involved, but I think it still runs out of space sometimes. If you scroll up to the original comment, you can reply to that one to keep your comment in the same thread.
January 28, 2013 at 7:45 pm
npanth,
I want to reply to Jane’s last post, but I don’t see a reply under her question? Sorry, posting is all new to me! 🙂
Michelle
January 29, 2013 at 10:28 am
That’s ok. WordPress’ comment system doesn’t seem to be able to handle in depth comment threads. You may have to scroll up the page quite a way to get to a comment that you can reply to and keep it within the same thread. I sometimes find myself inserting a comment into a strange place in a thread just to keep the conversation together in one spot.
January 28, 2013 at 1:43 am
i hope I do too selfishly, as I am sure you have read in my post I am 36 and want to start a family as soon as possible and before its too late but I cant take that plunge until I am meentally healed, i know we shouldnt ask this but how long did your recovery take?? x
January 28, 2013 at 7:59 pm
Hi emma,
I’m 36 also, but only for a few more months 🙂 Aw I don’t think it’s selfish at all to want to feel better. I had withdrawal symptoms for about 2.5 years. It’s just so different for everyone it seems. I had a friend who didn’t have any withdrawal symptoms, a friend who did for a year, another friend for 2 years. One of my friends took zoloft for a year, came off it and had no symptoms. A year later she went through a divorce and decided to go back on it. She took 1 dose and developed seritonin syndrome (don’t think I spelled that right) and could barley function for a year. I met another lady online who only took 1 dose of an AD as well, and same thing happened…she went through withdrawal for a year. I didn’t even think that was possible.
I think for me it lasted so long (and this is just a guess) because I was so sensitive to the AD. My doctor had started me on paxil, but I just felt so horrible and like I was coming out of my skin all day on it and he switched me to zoloft and I stayed at the same dose for 4.5 because lowering or increasing it I could not handle. One thing I was told often during that time, no matter how bad a day of symptoms I had, that at anytime things could get better. That any of the symptoms could disappear at anytime and I would not feel like that forever. I did NOT believe it then, but here I am recovered and feel back to my normal self.
Michelle
January 28, 2013 at 8:06 pm
Michelle, we definitely need your withdrawal recovery story at http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/forum/28-recovery-success-stories/
January 28, 2013 at 8:35 pm
Hi Altostrata,
I was looking at the site, but I don’t have all the info it asks for. Like I didn’t really have a taper schedule and I can’t remember how long each stage (symptoms) lasted for sure. I would just shave a little off of the pill until the symptoms calmed down and would shave a little more off until the pill was too small to shave then went to liquid zoloft. I remember a lot of symptoms, but just not all those details, so I wasn’t sure what to write….
Michelle
January 28, 2013 at 8:37 pm
That’s fine, tell us how you did the shaving! Your pattern of recovery is important, which symptoms went away first, how long it took you to feel like yourself — even an estimate would be very valuable. Anything you can tell us would be welcome!
January 29, 2013 at 3:51 am
thanks Michelle, I am also 36 for only a few more months, 37 scary and still not recovered. Anyway thanks for your support it is encouraging to hear of your recovery and I know everyones timescale can be different, my worst problems are psychological, i haven’t had anything physical apart from confusion. I hope every day for that sudden change to come, I know it will but the weight is excruciating I feel like I am wasting my life but there isnt anything I can do about it. People talk of this new found love of like and being even stronger after recovery, i really hope that happens, do yuo feel a stronger person now? x
January 29, 2013 at 10:35 am
It was very frustrating to wait for the symptoms to stabilize. The days just passed me by as I lived each minute in pain. It wasn’t the epiphany that I was expecting. i didn’t wake up one day and realize that i was better. It just started getting better over time. One day I realized that I hadn’t thought about self harm in a long time… couldn’t remember the last time, in fact. Then one day, I realized that my neck hadn’t hurt for a long time. It progressed like that, one symptom after another falling away without the realization. Progress in withdrawal is very retrospective. i didn’t recognize progress until after it had happened. I’m better at it now. I had a week of mild obsessive thoughts about a month ago. I recognized it as withdrawal related before it went away. That’s the kind of victory I look for, now. It will happen for you, I’m certain. You are approaching the problem in the absolute correct manner.
January 29, 2013 at 12:19 pm
thanks npanth, i live each day in hope, i agree with how you have described getting better, it is like with the brain fog, i realized a few weeks after that it had gone, i get a tinge of it every now and then but it feels like it has pretty much gone now, so i guess that is what will happen with all the symptoms, rt most anyway. I miss having fun and wanting to do things that I used to enjoy, I miss being content, I miss having a life x
January 30, 2013 at 7:49 pm
I have lived a humble life and yes I have done some stupid stuff in my life but good lord this is frickin rediculous. I can’t even imagine wishing this horrible hell on anyone. I so want this to be over.
Sorry for the downer thoughts. Up and down and down for no reason or down when you can’t afford to be down. 13 months and counting. Damn this crap.
January 31, 2013 at 4:10 pm
Emma. It took me a long time to recognize progress because it didn’t happen in a linear or recognizable way. It seems like I only saw progress after it happened, like you. Recognizing that the brain fog has dissipated is good. It makes it easier to recognize smaller progresses in the future.
Dano. I’m like you, very unassuming. This whole thing really caught me by surprise. I thought I was being smart by doing a “slow” taper. I had no idea how long a proper taper really took. My doctor’s schedule was absolutely precipitous. He recommended two months, I decided that 5 months was better. Turns out, I’ve been at it for a year and a half. It’s much better now. I’ve overcome most of the problems that I had when I was tapering too fast. i think that fast taper has set my withdrawal back quite a bit. Instead of a mild taper over the course of a year, it will total two years before I reach zero. Hopefully, I’ll have done the rest of my taper well enough to make that an easy taper.
January 31, 2013 at 11:35 am
hey dano I totally fee lfor you and feel the same, i dont ask for much I do good things for people, yet I am still in this hell. It will make us stronger, I am sure of it!! I am not sure if this is any help and I am probably wrong, but I have read that 6 to a8 months is a normal timescale of recovery, even though we all know it could take less time or longer, but i cling onto that a lot, and you are not at 18 months, I am only 3 months behind you, we need a recovery party when we are through this!!!!! we will deserve it! x
February 1, 2013 at 12:11 pm
6 weeks off Prozac after 3 month use for burnout syndrome. Emotional flattening is still very much present, and very much unbearable. I was wondering whether you had any experience from this forum on the length of emotional side-effects following withdrawal of SSRIs. Thank you so much in advance!
February 1, 2013 at 9:50 pm
That’s a hard question to answer. SSRI withdrawal seems to affect everyone a little differently. Some people can stop taking them without any issues. Others have prolonged issues after a short period of treatment. For most people, withdrawal starts with unrelenting symptoms. After a while, those symptoms start to break up into waves and windows. Slowly, the waves get shorter and the windows get longer. One of the frustrating parts of withdrawal is that it’s very hard to recognize progress until after it happens. You don’t see yourself feeling more, you have an emotional reaction to something and realize it’s the first time you’ve laughed in a long time. That’s what happened to my depersonalization. I was watching an episode of Whose Line is it Anyway and laughed out loud. It suddenly hit me that I couldn’t remember the last time I’d gotten more than a chuckle out of anything. I sat on youtube watching episode after episode, just marveling in my new found humor. Since then, it’s gotten progressively better.
Try to pay attention to the way you react to things. Your emotions may be fluctuating between depersonalization and more normal reactions without your realizing that it’s happening. The more aware you are of your emotional state, the easier it is to reinforce the good and keep the bad at bay. I’m sorry it’s not a concrete answer. I wish there was a way to tell how long symptoms would last. I hope you feel better soon.
February 4, 2013 at 6:22 pm
Gonna throw this out there. How about HGH Human growth hormone for healing. I have heard it helps to heal injuries. Maybe it would help heal the brain faster??? Comments??
February 5, 2013 at 12:31 pm
funny i have been so ill for the last night and all day today, nothing withdrarawl related, i caught a bug from my 2 year old niece, anyway funny thing is when you are physically ill, and i only speak for myself, all withdrarawl goes out the window, so my body has been soooo bad, cant move from bed but my head has felt the whole time, its like having a physical focus has taken away the head withdrarawl feelings, Danno I am not sure what HGH is but what I do read everywhere is nothing other than time will make us feel better, I have stopped searching for the holy grail of cures x
February 5, 2013 at 5:23 pm
I have also caught a cold this weekend. I’m just the opposite of Emma. It’s as if I can’t make the distinction between WD and the cold. I have a cold and I feel the worst I have in months. Headaches, depersonalization, derealization, anxiety this sucks. Yesterday I experienced anxiety levels as they were during my acute WD. No fun. I am very angry that this far down the road this is still happening.
My wife can hardly handle it anymore. I told her last night I wouldn’t blame her if she left me. I barely have anything to offer my family anymore other than a paycheck. I feel guilty that I am stifalling my families ability to live happily and experience goodness as it once was. I’m sure another man could fulfill her needs better than me right now and over the last year.
February 6, 2013 at 7:43 am
Well I got nothing new to report except know I’m waking up around 3 or 4 in the morning
by a pounding heart and the extreme anxiousness.It just doesn’t get any better than this.
now I look forward to see what my next symptom is going to be,I have a chart from
the Ashton Manual with a symptom check list, so far I’m starting to see a lot more check marks
next to both psychological and Physical symptoms,I have to laugh,it says not all people will
experience all these symptoms but I sure as hell am coming close.
I feel like a junkie waiting for his next fix , this is a horrible way to live day to day, but
I made it through another day so I guess when I can say that it’s just a matter of time
before I get better.
emma and Dano, I had the bug last week and it just made things worse,I hope you guys feel better.
Jay
February 6, 2013 at 3:09 pm
guys I hope you feel better, for me the physical illness gets rid of the withdrarwl about 80%, i certainley have caught up on some sleep while being ill. i am hoping that as i start feeling better from the bug the withdrarawl will go away a bit. I too wake up at 2 and 4 with a racing heart and the chronically at 5am, it is horrible, i try chanting to myself POSITIVE and I sometime spell the word out in my head. I keep trying to rememebr it is alway darkest before the dawn, we all have to hang in there, my happy place is when we are all on here saying thats it I have my life back and its good!!!!! people get through this, we know that we are just in the bad bit. but it will probabley be the worst times of our lives and once we are through it we will know it can never get any worse x
February 7, 2013 at 4:57 am
so today my bug has gone and surprise surprise I feel anxious and bad with withdrarawl, when i had being sick to focus on then i wasn’t feeling the withdrarawl, it is a vicious circle, and i cant wait for it to end for all of us x
February 7, 2013 at 1:00 pm
felt a glimmer of hope a few days ago, today gone as feel awful but i still keep thinking i will get better, how the hell do i still have hope left? x
February 7, 2013 at 1:20 pm
ive just reread your piece of writing at the top npanth and you are so right, the feelings of despair come out of nowhere, like an irrational fear of nothing, i am literally sat here for 1 minute thinking i am ok and 2 minutes later i feel like i’m going to freak out and loose the plot, then fear and doom, then fine again and all over again every few minutes. I am guessing where I have been ill with a bug and fortunately didn’t feel bad withdrarawl during that I am now having the comedown form the bug and the shock to my system is intensifying withdrarawl, whatever it is I wish it would piss off!!! All this horribleness but I have again just reminded myself I havent had brainfog for 2 nearley 3 months x
February 7, 2013 at 8:17 pm
Emma:
You are doing yourself a favor with all your mental pep talks to yourself. It does work. Probably not as fast as you would like but it is helping.
Loraine
Having a good mental attitude is a must threw this journey. Your body and brain will mess with you relentlessly during this healing. If feel like a hypocrit because I have let my mind get the best of me on many occasions but you have to stay mentally strong.
A life saving book for me and others here is ” Recovery & Renewal ” by Bliss Johns. It is under $20 bucks and well worth every penny. Amazon has it. If you are just starting this journey you will benefit greatly from the perspective she gives on many subjects. I have read this book in its entirety at least 4 times. As well as just reading a few pages for a pick me up. Good luck and feel strong you can do it!
February 8, 2013 at 6:55 am
I have got so bad today that I just couldnt face going to work, I was supposed to be in a meeting with my boss and I just couldnt do it, fortunatley as I have had a bug they think the bug is still continueing, I am guessing the bug has just drained me and made all this worse. I have cried screamed, hit things, gone to aqua aerobics to try and make myself feel better and spoken to firends but all is not good. I have made an appointment to see my shrink again as we dont have regular appointments, not to go back on drugs, but to get another couple of months worth of reassurance to keep me going, 10 months has been so long but still have so far to go, i am not sure how much more i can take, I went mad at my husband today because although he sticks with me he is rubbish when i am crying, he will just get on with what he needs to do while i stand in the kitchen sobbing,, he gets imaptient with me and says it will take time, which I know and it is great that he unnderstands that but he needs to put his arm around me and reassure me i will be alright instead of completley ignoring me having a break down. I do everything I can to help him, i let him watch ever he wants to watch on tv, I worked from home yesterday while he had the day off and i sat in the bedroom all day so he could play computer games all day in the living room where i normally work, i go to the cinema with him when it is the last thing i want to do, and i make myself do these things so my condition doesnt effect his life too much, and he has a charmed life, yet he cant put his arm round me, he has been great as he is still here not only 10 months later but pretty much 3 years this has been going on on and off through the taper and tolerance withdrarwl but i need some help x
February 9, 2013 at 11:34 am
Being sick makes withdrawal even worse. It’s hard to feel miserable while feeling miserable. At first, avoidance is really the only strategy to avoid stress. It does get better, though. Those little mindful reminders become more powerful over time.
I had a very tough week, one that I don’t think I could have handled a year ago. My father passed away, I had to drive overnight through a snowstorm to get to a test this morning. A year ago, I would have collapsed under all that stress. Today, I’m hanging in there. It will happen for you, too. Try your best to be patient. It takes a long time, too long, it seems, but you’ll be better off afterwards.
February 11, 2013 at 12:01 am
Npanth ,sorry for your loss.
emma, here’s a big hug from me, I wish I was there to give it to you personally ,but a cyber hug will have to do for now.
I wish I could help,but there is nothing I can do but give you my full support,we are in this together all of us ,
how about a group hug?if that helps I’ll give all you need.
Jay
February 11, 2013 at 5:43 am
thanks npanth and jay, I am hanging in there back at work today, i just need to steam through life at the moment and savour it when it gets better, thinking of you both too, cyber hug does help x
February 13, 2013 at 8:08 am
Npanth, I just wanted to say i am so sorry for your sad loss. My thoughts are with you at this time.
I haven’t felt up to posting for a good few weeks. WD is just unbearable at the moment. 11 months off and it seems worse than ever. Anyway, you are in my thoughts. I hope you’re coping ok. Rachel x
February 15, 2013 at 4:41 am
i feel your pain rachel, hang in there one day we will all have the chance to say we recoverd! x
February 16, 2013 at 7:31 pm
Thank you, Rachel. In a weird, insufficient way, it has been a withdrawal gut check for me. I handled this passing much better than I did my mom’s two years ago. I was on a full load of Paxil then, and completely lost control of my emotions for months. It’s been very telling for me that I’ve been able to manage my emotions much better this time. It feels wrong to use a parent’s death as a personal emotional test, but it has reinforced in my mind that I’m better off without SSRI than I ever was on them.
February 9, 2013 at 2:22 pm
I sort of cling to Surviving Antidepressants dot org. That site gives me gems of advice. Thank God that site, this one, and Paxil Progress are there to help!
February 10, 2013 at 4:56 am
Npanth I am so sorry for your loss from your top piece ig seems like he was an amazing man and had the right attitude for life, keep can only dream of being awesome lime that. I am going,ad you are having in there. After hour loss I feel wrong talking about my problems bug I need go write about them somewhere. I truly feel again that I am almost at the bottom, I think about not wanting to be here a lot, again, not suicidal but do with life, keep truly don’t know how I am getting through life, I feel sooooooooo depressed more so than any time over the last 10 months i have been off the drugs, like pure desperation, I want to scream at people to help me but there is nothing anyone can do, the worst thing now is it has got so bad I can’t even visualise good times, like a few months ago I would walk past a travel agent and see holidays in the window and think about how great it would be when I can enjoy a holiday again, but now I don’t even feel anything when thinking of a better future, it is all just black, this morning as again I couldn’t sleep in tried to visualise myself better and how wonderful it would be and all the things I will do. It is I just can’t see anything, I used to get excited thinking about socialising again and really enjoying it but nothing, it is killing my husband too we just don’t get on as he hates he can’t help me and I hate that be can’t help me, he has literally got out of bed this morning seeing me wide awake and not even said good morning or asked how i feel. So this morning I am thinking about going on drugs again, I don’t want too but how can I go on like this it is so bad. 99 percent of most people would have given up by now, my friend said to me why don’t I try a light medication and I said to her the thing is that’s what got me here in the first place, the best I have felt in years is when I was at the last bit of venlafaxine, a tiny dose, in my crazey 4 week taper off that so maybe that’s what I should be on, but the problem with going back on anything is for years and years I had this feeling that I needed to cry and couldn’t and it was horrible, really distressing and sometimes they would increase my dose because of it, but since being off the drugs that has gone, and the other major thing although I feel no better for it, it has only made the other symptoms intensify, is the brain fog has gone, yet the depression is now much worse. I know I should see that as an improvement as I used to pray for the brainfog to go I always said it was the worst and I am looking forward this week to seeing my shrink to tell him it has gone as it was the one symptom he never understood, hoping that he will say that’s it a clear sign you are mending but I can’t see it with this overwhelming depression. I am having acupuncture today in the hope that my help as there are withdrawal points, my doctor told me they prescribed acupuncture for heroin withdrawal. Yipppeeee I have just seen I have made it through another 30 minutes, that is how I have to do it these days, count the minutes I get through, I go to bed praying I will wake up feeling better as I don’t ever think the change will come in the middle of the day after a bad morning, for some reason I don’t see it happening like that, I imagine one morning i will think ok I had an alright night sleep i don’t feel too bad I’m going to go shopping today or something like that and it will then just go on from there, bit by bit recovery. I am going to talk to my shrink Friday and hope that I feel.better by then so keep don’t come away with drugs, I know I won’t take anything as I have come so far but it is hard doing so long with what seems like no improvement, I feel I am getting worse and people especially my husband have had enough now. I certainley have.I am going to try and start writing a book about it today in the hope it will be therapeutic, thanks for listening, I need to be better now x
February 10, 2013 at 10:52 am
I’ve been in the same place, Emma. The bottom of withdrawal is very hard to deal with. Relationships are strained, personal strength is sapped. There really doesn’t seem to be any let up at all. That sense of living minute by minute just exacerbates it, too. I think that experience makes it harder to recognize progress, too. We become accustomed to feeling like that so much that improvement doesn’t seem real, or even possible.
It does get better, though. Try your best to hold onto your relationships. This is a temporary crisis, and you will be stronger at the end of it. I know those sound like hollow words right now. I didn’t see how circumstances could change for me while I was in the middle of withdrawal. It’s only as I look back from this perspective that I realize that it was worth it get to the point I’m at now. The worst of the pain will fade, but the determination you use to get past it will remain.
February 10, 2013 at 12:57 pm
thanks npanth, i will hold on, i appreciate your words during your sad time x
February 10, 2013 at 5:00 am
Apologies for my appauling writing above I am awful,.on a touch screen, the first bit makes no sense because of predictive text, x
February 12, 2013 at 4:21 am
so I was going to make a psych appointment to get some reassurance to keep going, and then yesterday i felt i didnt need it, then today i woke at 4am with the worst anxiety i have ever experienced, i thought i was going to pass out. Somehow and i really dont know how I managed to get on a 1 and a half hour train journey to work and I am here, and I am going to go on a site visit with my boss, I am so close to telling him what is going on as I feel so bad again today but I will try and resist, tomorrow I work from home so I will try and cling to that to get through today, I wish I had the words to describe how awful this is to people but there is no description that justifies it, npanth you say that you cope better with thing especially recently and that things got better for you but do you think that is because of time or because you reinstated and you have the drugs back in your body?? you say you have been in the same place and it gets better but did it get better for you because you again have the drugs??? I swear that is not a criticism it is a question x
February 12, 2013 at 7:57 pm
I completely understand, Emma. I struggled with the same question – whether or not to go back on the meds. I always opted out and now I know that it was the best decision for me. You should be so proud that you were able to make it to and from work (and stay there!) when you were feeling so crappy. We really don’t give ourselves enough credit. Since August of last year, when I went off the citalopram initially, it’s been a real struggle. But it WILL get better, I have to keep believing. I hardly ever get the brain zaps or dizziness anymore. I’m now mostly struggling with the terrible intrusive thoughts and depression/anxiety. I find that it’s the psychological things that take the longest to get over. Try not to beat yourself up too much. If you have to go back on the medsfor a while to cope that’s okay, but you will get through it. It’s so hard to remember the windows there are so many darn waves!! Keep hanging on girl!
February 12, 2013 at 8:51 pm
Wele, I agree that psychological symptoms are first to come and last to go – for me, too. But how do you cope with such severe depression and anxiety bouts, they are the most difficult to bear. When a new wave of something I can’t find words to describe (of course, it’s depression and anxiety but it’s too general and impossible to give a name for what’s going on in my head) hits, I get so restless, fail to find anything that could distract me from that really awful feeling, it usually correlates with increased pressure in my ears and a squeezing sensation in the brain – all I want at the moment is to run somewhere from this terrible feeling, but there is no place to hide from yourself, unfortunately. And another question for all of you: if you visit a psychiatrist, I am really curious what kind of dialogue you have with him/her since they insist that it’s nothing else than a depression relapse and want to address the problem with yet another antidepressant or other psychotropic drug. How do you find a common ground and is it helpful at all? Thank you
February 13, 2013 at 7:00 am
I’d say it’s a combination of reinstating and mindfulness. Mindfulness helps to curb the symptoms, but tapering slowly makes them milder, which makes them easier to control.
For a long time, waves came on me fully formed. There was no build up like there is now. Waves seem to start small, and snowball over time. When they’re just getting started, it’s easier to shut them down before they become self perpetuating. That process is easier when the symptoms themselves are milder. So, mindfulness wasn’t as effective until the symptoms themselves became more manageable. I still remember the times when the waves were impossible to control. It seems like yesterday and a long time ago at the same time.
Still, the mindfulness I’ve developed seems more than just a defense mechanism, now. It’s something more deeply ingrained, not something I only use when I’m getting waves. I think it’s something that I’ll be using in everyday life from now on. I hope you feel better soon.
February 13, 2013 at 12:47 pm
thanks npanth, i find mindfulness hard at the moment as I dont want to sit with my feelings when i feel soo bad but it is something i have sworn i will do as i feel better, i do feel that it is all getting worse, I am sure i wasnt this bad at the begining off of the drugs, but as I said no brain fog and that is a godsend. Jane fortunaltey for me my shrink believews in withdrarawl, he will say my anxiety and depression is also a few old symptoms but but he also encourages me to keep going without the drugs if that is what i want, its funny though as low as i feel most of the time i can distinguish that it is not depression, but as i said there are no words to describe it, wele, thanks for the encouragemnt x
February 12, 2013 at 3:31 pm
Emma, the fact that you got up and went to work shows that in spite of what is going on ,you over came your fears and moved on,That says allot about how you would have reacted early on, you don’t give yourself enough credit.
My Psych keeps telling me that I might have to take just a low dose meds to have a better quality of life,I said there’s no such thing as a low dose,I want and will get off this last part of my journey , tapering off Xanax and I don’t care what i have to go through to get there,I had a 6 day window and have cut my Xanax intake by .5 mgs a day down to 2.5 mgs.
This Friday I am going to cut .065 mgs and every 14 days I am going to cut .065 mgs .
If you are entertaining the thought of reinstating ,I would give it more time, you are stronger than you think..
If you decide to reinstate ,I will support your decision, I know how you feel please believe that.
Here another hug for you Hug,Hug,Hug.
If that doesn’t make you feel better, at least it should make you laugh and laughter is good medicine.
Stay strong,
Your friend ,
Jay
February 13, 2013 at 12:26 pm
hey jay thanks for that you are so sweet to say thos things, not only did i get through the day I ended up spending 2 hours in the car with my boss and 3 hours walking round a shopping mall looking at sites and one of the places i hate to be is in a shopping mall and i was fine, and held an intelligent business coversation too, I was very proud of myself. its a shame being proud doent make you feel better.anyway I got through it, and last night i slept slightley better. I have decded not to reinstate, I have done 10 and a half months i must keep going and cling on to the better days, Jay I am so glad you had a window and you continue with your taper. You are so right, there is no such thing as a low dose. I have been reading a book called MAD IN AMERICA which basciaclly has the true result from clinical trials on psychological drugs and the case studies of people who have been ruined by them and people who have gotten off them, it certainley makes me think these drugs are sooooo awful. My friend came over today and told me that her 8 year old nephew has panic attacks and they are disscussing putting him on soemthing, how bad is that, I bet no one has looked at what he eats and the sugar in his diet, i am appauled by the thought of an 8 year old on these awful drugs, anyway Jay thanks for the hugs, I have got through another day x
February 15, 2013 at 4:40 pm
Advising someone on whether or not to start their kids on a psych med is a touchy subject. A friend of mine has decided to wean his son off Paxil because of my experience and his own observations of the personality changes his son has exhibited. Another friends started taking an SSRI while I was in the middle of withdrawal. I think these drugs really are something that has to be witnessed to be fully understood. The drugs benefit from a near universal acceptance by doctors and therapists, which makes it very hard to convince someone that they can be dangerous. The effort required to convince someone is just at the boundaries of friendship/relationships. So, I usually offer some advice, but try not to be too vehement about it, even as my inner voice is screaming. It’s hard not to let that advice wander into tirade territory because of my experiences, but I have to remind myself that they are where I was 10 years ago.
February 13, 2013 at 9:11 pm
Emma, that is a good book also,Recovery and Renewal is another good book to read,this is from an excerpt from Amazon.
Recovery and Renewal is an essential guide for overcoming dependency and withdrawal from sleeping pills, other benzodiazepine tranquillisers and antidepressants. It is a useful, insightful and incredibly courageous book which delivers everything you need to know before, during and after. Family and friends will better understand the experience and will be equipped to give support. Doctors, counsellors, rehabilitation staff, recovery and mental health organisations will gain invaluable insight critical to providing best care.
All sale proceeds will go to our charity’s account as a source of self-funding. So instead of royalties being split between publisher and author, Recovery Road earns 100%. This has been an excellent decision for us as it is helping us to be able to continue providing our services. Recovery Road.
I just got it today and I can’t put it down.
One of my grandsons is on meds for ADD,and it kills me to see the difference the drug makes when it starts to wear off near the end of the day,It seems that the answer to all our problems is meds,it’s a shame what these Dr’s do and never have to answer for their bad decisions and drug pushing.It seems like an easy out for them,instead of addressing the real problem.
God forbid they would have to spend some time researching and actually get to the root of the problem.
Anyways, I’m glad you decided to hang in there, remember I’m just a few milliseconds away lol
Jay
February 14, 2013 at 7:13 am
Thanks Jay, I have had that book for 8 months and take it every where with me, and I’m not joking, if i start feeling awful it keeps me going, my husband has read it too and all my friends have looked at the website to help support me. There is also a Facebook page that goes with it and everyday there is an encouraging post and story of recovery to keep going. I am fighting another day today, got stuck on the train and had a massive panic which now has floored me for the day. I have started acupuncture once a week to try and help as the doctors have said they recommend it for heroin withdrarawl, cant be far off the same symptoms. I spend a fortune a month on alternative therapy as I see a counciller, meditation lady one to one and now acupuncture, but anything is worth ago, I hardly go out and spend money so if it helps, anyway happy valentines day x
February 14, 2013 at 5:16 pm
rxisk.org
RxISK is the drug safety website to research and report side effects.
No one knows a drug’s side effects like the person taking it. Use this website to inform yourself on the drugs you are being prescribed. Take the next step and report any side effects you are experiencing to…
•Receive your free RxISK Report to take to your doctor or pharmacist.
•Create a report to send to your country’s drug regulator.
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https://www.rxisk.org/Default.aspx
Dr. David Healy’s blog offers thought-provoking posts on drug side effects and the need for Data Based Medicine, the opportunity to read and contribute to research papers, as well as a forum for people to share their stories.
February 16, 2013 at 5:42 pm
Hi. I am currently going through some very intense withdrawals off Luvox. I am 31 and have been taking meds for anxiety pretty consistently since I was 17! I found an amazing Dr that has told me its time to get my body and hormones balanced naturally, and the Luvox is debilitating my function to process appropriately. I have been sooo long without meds that I fear what I am feeling now is how I will always feel off meds. I started at 100 mg, weaned to 50 with about two weeks of irritation, brain zings and headaches, and now at 25 mg I can’t deal with life. I have these episodes of uncontrollable shaking and an overwhelming feeling that I will never be able to function normally again. It’s the weekend but I have to go to work on Monday! A very small dose of Xanax is helping me cope. I appreciate your blog and I’m comforted that I’m not alone
February 16, 2013 at 6:22 pm
Jamie, you are tapering too fast, and you’re getting severe withdrawal symptoms. If I were you, I’d reinstate Luvox up to 50mg again, stabilize for at least a month, and taper by 10% per month after that. Use a liquid to taper, calculate the dosage on the last taken — the amount of decrease keeps getting smaller. If you still get withdrawal symptoms, hold on reducing for a bit and taper by a smaller amount, perhaps 5%.
February 16, 2013 at 7:09 pm
That’s a very fast taper. My doctor gave me a similar schedule when I went to him about weaning off Paxil. I agree with Altostrata. You should get to a stable dose, then taper very slowly from there. One thing that has helped me determine when the best time to taper is to drop the calendar method. Instead of setting target dates for tapers, I go by how I feel. I make sure that I have gone through the little, mild waves in each taper before I try to do another one. Consolidating each taper before doing the next is the best way to minimized withdrawal symptoms. I’m going slow enough now that I really have to pay attention to my emotions to find symptoms. That’s so much better than having those symptoms club me over the head.
The good news is that you are only a couple weeks into tapering, so your symptoms should dissipate quickly once you increase your dosage again. you shouldn’t have to wait too long before starting to taper again. Your first taper would be to 45mg/day, then 40.5mg/day, then 36.9mg/day, etc. You can round the dosages a bit, but not by too much. Even small variations in dose can produce withdrawal symptoms, sometimes. I hope it stabilizes before the end of the weekend for you.
February 16, 2013 at 6:45 pm
WOW this is the worst wave I’ve had yet, 24 hrs of non stop
anxiety and still going,I am resisting the urge to pop an X ,because I just cut back,I’m wondering if this is the cause of my anxiety.
Jay
February 16, 2013 at 7:13 pm
I’m sorry you’re feeling so bad, Jay. I hate, hate that overwhelming feeling of a bad wave. Hold out as long as you can on the xanax, but don’t feel like it’s a failure if you take some. There’s no merit badge for toughing it out, although it may have seemed like that from the way I tapered last year 🙂 I hope you feel better soon.
February 17, 2013 at 1:16 pm
hey jay hang in there, keep going!! but like npanth says you are not a faliure if you need to take a xanax. I had accupncture for the second time today, I am having it every sunday for the forseeable future. My week this week wasnt as bad as the week before, as normal no where near where I want to be but better than how I had been and then hit a wall again today, absolutly horrible, cant even describe it, 10 and a half months today, so close to 1 year and i am so scared that when i get to that year i wont be feeling better, for some reason I have had a year in my head as recovery point and at this time it doesnt look likely, I am just waiting for that day. Good news is not long until bed time tonight. Here is something that upset me this weekend, we were at my mother in laws and she showed me some drugs she had been given for her bad back and she had been taking them for 3 weeks and then just stopped them over the last week, no one told her what they were and low and behold they were benzos, and no one had told her about the possibilities of withdrarawl, it made me so mad, fortunatley she doesnt need them and althoough she stopped them quickley she has been fine apart from vertigo, but oh my god it shows just how easy it is to get in this posistion!! And I wouldnt wish that on anyone!! Jay hang in there, I will if you will , big hug for you this time x
February 17, 2013 at 1:42 pm
I’ve heard people talking about timelines when it comes to recovery from SSRI withdrawal. I’m starting to think that it’s not as static as a physical injury. If you break a leg, there are long established timelines and benchmarks for recovery. Withdrawal seems to happen in a much more hap hazard way. Some of my symptoms have dissipated, others hang around. There doesn’t seem to be any rhyme or reason to which ones go and which ones stay, either. It seems that one day you’ll realize that you haven’t felt a certain symptom for a long time. Another day, you’ll realize that you haven’t felt any symptoms for a long time. I wish it was more formalized. It would be great to be able to say “I passed this benchmark of recovery” The only thing that’s helped me is to pay close attention to which symptoms I still experience, and which ones I don’t anymore. It’s very informal and doesn’t really feel like recovery, but it’s the closest thing I’ve found. I hope you can say you’re having more good days than bad soon.
February 17, 2013 at 2:22 pm
I’ve been trying hard to figure what the external triggers for the waves could be with the withdrawal, of course, as a main cause – absolutely no clue. I’ve concluded that it always rises from inside regardless what’s going on around you, so the nature of it – totally internal for me. It means that there are no factors that could, at least partially, ease it up or delay a coming wave. When I am in the wave I can’t follow the advice to imagine a better time even if I had it a day ago, it seems endless and always catches me off guard, consumes completely and make me so hopeless and terrified. I can’t learn to cope with the withdrawal in any possible way: when it lifts just a little bit – I am still scared awaiting for another one, especially, you never know when it’d hit and for how long would last, when it comes (very soon) it fills you with dread and makes your mind paralyzed; no matter what you do – you can’t be prepared for it, so horrible it is.
February 17, 2013 at 11:32 pm
It’s hard to separate out triggers for waves. It was a long, long time before I made a start on it. I spent a long time not knowing. I still have trouble with some symptoms. The effort does pay off eventually, though. Even if it doesn’t seem like you’re making any discernible difference in this wave, it’s adding to your ability to manage your symptoms.
I think that withdrawal creates its own symptoms and also exacerbates external triggers. It takes a lot of introspection to tell which is which. That’s the kind of thing I’m still struggling with. I’ve had some successes, though, and that’s encouraging. After a year of effort, I’m able to cut off some waves just as they’re starting. I’ll feel the beginning of a wave, as if I’m catching a cold… mental instead of physical… and just turn it off before it gains momentum. It’s hard to describe the process. Eventually, your determination to control the symptoms that you know are caused by the drug translates into a better ability to manage the symptoms caused by the underlying problem. Good luck. I’ll have to think more about specific things we can do to better manage symptoms.
February 18, 2013 at 12:03 am
Please, npanth, try your best to explain how you manage to prevent a coming wave. I am experiencing a horrible wave for 3 days non-stop and it brought the worst symptoms that are impossible to bear – surviving from minute to minute – can’t distract myself from it by any means. On those days the withdrawal seems like an absolute power that will never end. I can’t imagine that the symptoms could be controllable. If you invent some tool to do it or at least to reduce them, that other people could implement, the value of it would be hard to overestimate. Also, you mentioned that one of your friends had a very severe withdrawal for 4 years. Could you give more details? Thank you
February 18, 2013 at 9:15 am
I equate it to what happened to me when I started working for a school district. For the first couple years, I was sick all the time. Kids carry all kinds of flus and colds around, and I seemed to catch every single one of them. After a while, my immune system got used to the new environment. Even now, 15 years later, I often start to get sick, but the cold fades away before it gets worse. I still get sick, but not nearly as often as those first couple years. My immune system changed and became more responsive to its environment.
In a similar way, I started to pay attention to what I was feeling and try to find the causes of it. It didn’t really help when I was tapering very fast, the waves had too much power for that. They really were, as you say, overwhelming. I kept trying, though. What I found was that mindfulness became a kind of mental immune system after a while. Being mindful, in conjunction with a slower tapering schedule, made the symptoms more manageable. I still get moments where they are a little out of hand, but for the most part, recognizing that a symptom is caused by my last taper gives me a certain amount of power over it that I didn’t have before.
It takes a while for mindfulness to show any results. I was just recognizing my symptoms at first. I knew that they were caused by Paxil, but there wasn’t anything I could do to influence them. It slowly evolved into control over time. Being aware of my symptoms helps me with my tapering schedule, too. Now, I don’t taper based on a schedule, but on my sense of internal stability. That has played a big part in making my symptoms more manageable. It’s a long, fruitless effort in the beginning, but it does pay dividends eventually. Hang in there.
My friend quit cold turkey from a truckload of meds. 80mg/day Paxil with a Lithium booster, an antipsychotic, an anti seizure, and a mood stabilizer. He was basically drugged into a living coma by his doctor. He decided to stop suddenly. He had a very hard time getting over the withdrawal. He tried to kill himself 6 times in 4 years. He was inconsolable for a long time. He would call me in the middle of the night and repeat the same one or two sentences for hours. “If only I could have…” “Please save me…” It was very hard to help, there didn’t seem like there was anything I could do to really help. Eventually, his symptoms improved to the point where he could start to look outside himself. He has started a non profit, now. It seeks to provide a path back for child soldiers who were abducted in Uganda. He says that finding a productive thing to do, a cause, helped him get over withdrawal. I think time also played a part in his recovery.
February 18, 2013 at 4:18 pm
Dear npanth, thank you so much for your detailed and insightful answer to my questions. I am going through the very cruel and devastating wave (4th day and it’s excruciating). I think I haven’t reached a point or a phase to be able to overcome or at least make the symptoms more manageable (as you acknowledged, it has to be not so powerful compare to what I have to withstand it). I am not sure though what you mean by “mindfulness” in this context. For me, it works to the contrary: the more I keep my attention on the symptoms (at times I have no choice b/c they are so prominent), even totally realizing that they’ve come from withdrawal, – the more scared and filled with dread I get. My instinctive way of dealing with it (not fruitful and rational at all but unavoidable) – I am kind of deceiving myself that it’s not a wave, just a slight dip (sometimes this thing happen, too) and put all my effort to separate myself from the deepening and gaining ground symptoms, pretending that it’s not happening, just my imagination and fear – and then it’d strike me with all it’s power and seize me once again unprepared. The worst thing is you never know how long, how bad and when again – unpredictability. Not to offend you in any way – it doesn’t build a dynamic as you always describe (at least with me): as time goes, windows get wider and waves – shorter. What I experiencing now is very similar to the beginning period of withdrawal – all physical, mental and emotional symptoms are back in their worst manifestations (even brain zaps are back though I didn’t have much of it at the beginning). The case of your friend is very revealing, at those moments I also feel an urge to call somebody and catch myself repeating similar phrases over and over again. I resist this urge as long as I can b/c it doesn’t bring me a relief, only more devastation. And I really don’t have a good candidate for that also. Today I am going to a psychologist without much hope but can’t just sit and do nothing. Thanks, again, npanth.
February 19, 2013 at 9:17 am
It is very hard to practice mindfulness when the waves are very powerful. It’s hard to describe how the process works. It’s very subjective and internalized. When I feel an obsessive thought starting, I just kind of dismiss it. I’m having trouble describing it any more succinctly than that. There is a fine line between mindfulness and obsession. Thinking about an obsessive thought can cause it to snowball, too. I think it’s that balance that takes a long time to develop. Keep at it. It may not help during this wave, but it will eventually help. I’m sorry you’re feeling this bad. I really hate waves, there’s such a feeling of powerlessness to it.
February 19, 2013 at 8:14 pm
I’ve been trying your tactics of dismissing a coming wave, dodging it – it didn’t work for me. May be, as you say (and I agree) it’s too powerful to counteract by the tricks, may be I don’t do it right. There are different opinions in how to control something very undesirable crossing your mind: some think – you need to face it and accept (easy to say!), not fight; some – try not to notice it, or gather the strength to battle it. I suppose that mind could affect the body’s functions profoundly by the way how you think but not in our case of withdrawal – two parties are very uneven in their potential, incomparable by all dimensions like hurricane and a tree on it’s way. I saw a psychologist and she suggested that if I want to get better, I need to work hard and for a long time, implementing complex techniques and tools to get better. Otherwise, It’s not possible. Psychiatrists insist that there is no such thing as protracted withdrawal, it’s nothing else as depression and I just do a big disservice to myself by waiting and not taking drugs – they sometimes sound so confident and categorical to me that I start to doubt the very idea of staying drug free for such a huge price. I don’t see a light at the end of tunnel. How do you resist the doctors’ adamant persuasion about the necessity of the drugs and remain firm?
February 18, 2013 at 12:17 am
PS. I don’t think that the problem is in discerning between external and internal causes – I don’t have any real life now, just existence, struggle, survival, my days are the very similar, almost the same, that’s why I don’t see any external triggers. I am convinced that it all comes from the process of withdrawal – wild, chaotic and imminent. Are you able to predict how long and how intense the wave will be based on the first signs? On the days of the waves the despair I feel pushes me to the edge – I want to flee somewhere but how do you escape from yourself?!
February 18, 2013 at 4:23 pm
jane dont try too hard to figure them out, the waves just happen, yeah you might get a bad one after a lot of sugar (thats what I find) or after a stressful situation but there really is no predicting them from what I can tell you just need to hang in there at the worst times and there really is nothing that can make it more manageable other than the things everyone suggest, breathing, mindfulness, i too a lot of the time only exisit and count minutes and hours wishing the time away to feel better, yesterday I felt awful, this morning i felt pretty bad but now this evening i feel totally normal as if no problems at all, how is that possible, and I know tomorrow it 99% will be bad again, just get through that is all we can do i can sooooooooooo relate to how you are feeling though, i was there a day ago x
February 18, 2013 at 8:54 pm
Emma, thank you for your support but the thing is I don’t feel normal at all where I could catch my breath to be able to withstand another wave. It’s been so awful lately and today the depression is indescribable. I constantly have something like panic attack – the fear and alarm inside are just extreme. I went to psychologist for the first time today and she said that you could call it withdrawal or any other name, the essence of the problem is that you had a complex of conditions and you need to work hard applying different techniques to rewire your brain. She stated that it would take months or years. In order to act on her recommendations I should be in a more composed state, not in a chaotic and inadequate I am now, have at least some control of my mind and body.
February 19, 2013 at 9:21 am
One of the things that really frightened me when I started was the idea that I would be in wave after wave for months or years. That time frame just seemed ridiculous to me, counting minutes as I was. Things have improved, though. It’s a spiteful irony of withdrawal that you only recognize progress after it’s happened.
February 20, 2013 at 9:25 am
hey Jane, my shrink does believe in withdrarawl and I also saw another shrink who also said drugs are not needed and that it could take a few years to get better, i feel your pain everyday , hour, minute is so hard, I feel awful today, deep depression, doom, fear, sleeping maybe 2 to 3 hours a night and somehow i am still going to work but as you its only exisitence, everything you say i can completley relate too and again today i have had thoughts of just going and taking some drugs again because at least when i was on them i was better than i am now but still not well, but i have done 11 months and just need to keep going, the one thing i can tell you is , as awful as i still feel i can still recognize things that have gone, biggest of all is no brain fog for 3 months, no more head aches, bad skin, anger or flu like symptoms, however what has got worse or just more proominent because other things have gone is i still have awful, anxiety awful depression, scared, doom, fear, crying, insomnia, but i still have to convince myself that if a big thing like brain fog can go then the awful depression and anxiety will go, all we can do is encourage each other x
February 20, 2013 at 8:32 pm
Emma, we are almost at the same line (from the time we got off), but I had a month of being on Prozac in the middle ( the stupid thing to do but I followed many people advice to make withdrawal easier). I wouldn’t say that any symptoms have gone completely – some have just subsided but they could return at some point (that happened to me many times before), depression and anxiety have gotten so intense and unbearable that I don’t know how to deal with it. It may take years – how to live those years when every day is such a struggle?! You seem to trust your shrink. What kind of therapy does he/she use, I am not asking about the particulars, of course, just in general – do you have a plan and how does it help you?
February 20, 2013 at 8:36 pm
PS. do you have an awful feeling in your head like it squeezed and your ears plugged? For me it seems to correlate with the level of depression and anxiety.
February 21, 2013 at 3:47 am
that feeling you say you have in your head is actually what my brain fog was like but i never knew how to describe it so i called it brain fog but i am aware now that it was more like a pressure in my head just like you said, i used to say to my shrink that if i could take my brain out, scrape it clean and put it back in i would feel better, but that has gone now for 3 months, 3 whole months, nothing so far has subsided for that long, i get a twinge now and then but it doesnt seem to be sticking around (touch wood). I used to say it was the worst thing and if i could get rid of that i could keep going, so i got rid of that but obviously the worst thing has been replaced with something else, so now the worst thing is depression and anxiety, but i am assured it will go, it has to if the head pressure has gone, i find reading a success story when i feel at my worst gives me that little glimmer of hope to keep going. My shrink has no plan for me, i dont even see him as there is nothing he can do for me, I just have to get through each day there is nothing more he can do for me, he belives in withdrarawl and encourages me to keep going but at the same time tells me not to rule out drugs if it gets too bad. I called him 6 weeks ago and said if felt i was going insane and he was concerned by that but still said it sounds like withdrarawl, i always said to him if it got 18 mnths down the line and i am now 11 months down, i would consider drugs again, but at this moment i am really against it, i have watched lots of documentaries about how bad these drugs are for you and i dont want them in my boday again, since i stopped taking them i dont take head ache tablets, i am clean of everything, probabley never been healthier as i dont eat sugar dairy and live most of the time on raw food , but anyway back to my shrink, there is no plan but if i feel awful i can call him and see him and we can go through options again, he is kind to tell me what i need to hear, he did advice me to eat 2 tablespoons of pumkin seeds a d ay as they have the highest levels of tryptophan which naturally builds serotonin so i do that every day but couldnt tell you if it helps but theyare soooo good for you i eat them anyway. My only plan is I see a counciller and i see a mediatation expert and that and encouragment from friends and family is all i have, read the stories of success and focus on them x
February 21, 2013 at 5:56 pm
Are you practicing meditation? What kind? Does it help? Good for you that that terrible feeling in the head’s gone. Had it been consistent when it was there or more like “come and go”? For me it has subsided a little for awhile, then came back more intense, even with brain zaps that I almost didn’t have at the beginning. Also, it triggers the asthma attacks and nasal congestion and nothing seems to help to ease that up.
February 22, 2013 at 5:34 am
i tried meditation for a few months, about 6 months ago but it got to the point that i couldnt do it when i felt so bad, i didnt want to sit with those feelings all i wanted to do was distract myself from them and mediataion doesnt do that, it is something i have promised myself i will get into when i feel well enough, i do the breathing though, especially in the morning and i try to chant to myself i am getting better i am getting better. To be honest though i really dont think anything helps other than time. The head thing was probabley 5 or 6 day a week out of 7 and then it literaslly wasnt there for day, came back for 2 then wasnt there for 4 then back for 1 day then gone for a week and so on, I read a reall great success story on line last night I will post the link for you i am sure you will find it really really encouraging
http://www.paxilprogress.org/forums/showthread.php?t=45298
read it i hope it helps, i actually had a better day yesterd and manged probabley 5 hours sleep which was a joy, who knows how today will pan out, you willl get through this jane, all the proof says we will x
February 19, 2013 at 3:39 pm
I was on Prozac 40 mg for 25 years. 6 weeks ago, PDOC stopped Prozac, switched me to Cymbalta. He told me no titration off Prozac was necessary since I was being switched to Cymbalta. I stopped Prozac, took Cymbalta for two weeks, but could not tolerate the side effects, especially racing heart, extremely high blood pressure, nausea and unsteadiness. Based on these effects PDOC stopped Cymbalta. So, for 4 weeks I have not been on any antidepressant at all. At the 3 week time of being on no antidepressant, with no warning, depression began to worsen, I began to experience constant sobbing, crying, tearing, laughing while I was crying, nausea, headaches, suicidal ideation, twitching/zap kind of feelings and now realize I must have been hallucinating because I would keep hearing my doorbell ring or someone knocking on the front door when no one was there. In reality there is no way someone could even knock on my front door because I have security gates that prevent even getting to the door. Waves of uncontrollable feelings washed across me.Yes, I have been depressed for years, but I have never experienced anything like this before.
Finally got a return call from PDOC after 11 days, yes 11 days. That is another story in itself. He told me he was so sorry he couldn’t make me happy (was complaing because he had not returned any of the 4 messages left over a ten day period) and referred me to a new PDOC. I am now waiting for that appointment. He made no suggestion that I restart the Prozac, just said he had set up an appointment with a new PDOC. In the meantime, sharing some of this with a friend, the suggestion was made to me that I restart the Prozac until I see the new PDOC. I restarted the Prozac 20 mg 3 days ago. Things are starting to smooth out a bit. However, the depression continues to worsen. Hallucinations seem to be gone, but aching, twitching, nausea, headache continue, but somewhat better.
Just my story to share. Sharing seems to help. Reading others experiences also helps. Reading the thorough explanation of discontinuance syndrome by npath REALLY helped. I kind of wonder if my brain is permanently damaged. Will I get through this?
February 20, 2013 at 7:38 pm
There were many times when I asked the same question. Have I damaged my brain? Has taking these pills made it impossible for me to function without them? I’ve talked to a lot of people with the same concerns. it seems to be a very common thing. The cliff that we go off of when we stop taking these meds is really hard to believe unless you’ve experienced it. It can sometimes take a long time to get back to normal after stopping an SSRI, but it is possible. I’d say that I’m almost there. I’m still on 5mg/day of Paxil, but I see the end in sight, now. I don’t think that I have damaged my brain. Instead, I think I chemically numbed it for 10 years. The awakening has been traumatic, but worth it. I’m more self aware and responsive to my friends than I’ve been for a long time.
It’s very common to have a bad episode when you stop a drug like Prozac cold turkey. I think your friend is right that you should reinstate at your previous dose. It may take some time to get stable again because of the side track with Cymbalta. You have some withdrawal from Cymbalta and the reinstatement to Prozac to get through. Once you get there, the effect of Prozac may not be the same as it was before. These drugs seem to have a “Garden of Eden” effect where they don’t have the same effect the second time you take them. It may take some time to taper off Prozac, just go slowly. The motto about docking a boat is appropriate, I think. If you think that you’re doing it too slowly, you’re doing it just right. I’m glad that your symptoms are starting to dissipate since your reinstatement, I hope it doesn’t last too long.
February 19, 2013 at 3:42 pm
corrected my email address
February 20, 2013 at 9:31 am
jazelle you will get through it but you will need a taper, more expereinced people on here will tell you is advised what, but we all understand your horrble feelings, sending you courage x
February 21, 2013 at 11:28 am
Hi Emma, I was just re-reading some of the posts and see that you are looking to start a family, I am in the exact same position, I am 37 this year and really want to have kids but feel that I can’t go through with it at the moment, I reinstated another SSRI- Lexapro and this has just made me so tired and un-motivated and I am trying to wean myself down off it slowly, I envy pregnant women when I see them looking so happy etc, I would love to feel better, get pregnant and actually enjoy my pregancy, its a very tough situation……..
February 21, 2013 at 12:42 pm
Hi Sinead, we are in the same boat then, i am 37 in 2 months time, I have kind of accepted now that I just need to get better and if that means I am a really mature mum then that is what I have to do, the bummer is I wanted 5, I have cut that down to 3 but time is not on my side, if i see no improvement and really truley it doesnt seem right my husband and i would look at adoption with me being an older parent (he is 7 years younger). People tell me being pregnant might sort me out but I just cant take that risk, there is the chance it could make me feel worse and once you are pregnant there is no turning back, and then i think of how i am on really awful days and i just could not add a child into the mix, I know one day i will definatley have kids, i just dont know how and when, what i decided to do instead is spend this time during withdrarwawl getting baby ready, so I have lost lots oof weight and been getting physically fit and super super healthy eating, so when the time is right I can just go for it! Someone on here said to me to trry not to fixate on the timescale of getting pregnant and getting older and that is what I have done, we could be better in a few weeks time, who knows. if I was 40 I would be slightly more worried, but definatley dont freak about it now, my best friend is pregnant at 40 and I know loads of people doing up to there mid 40s. I definatley could not add pregnancy to the withdrarawl at the moment it woould finish me off, it is hard enough to live through each day x
February 22, 2013 at 2:04 pm
You’re right to be hesitant about the idea that a pregnancy would “straighten you out”. Pregnancy makes dramatic hormonal changes to the body and mind. Chances are, it would be a very stressful time. heck, it’s already a stressful time without throwing withdrawal into it. That was me recommending not to be too concerned about the timeline 🙂 That was one of the big mistakes I made when I started tapering off Paxil. I kept looking at the calendar and calculating when I’d be off the drug, without any consideration for How I’d taper off the drug. I think pregnancy should work the same way. I know it feels like time is running out, but it’s not the schedule that is important, but the How. You’ll get there, and have a wonderful child. Rushing it can only hurt.
February 23, 2013 at 1:03 pm
Thanks Npanth, I agree with what you say about the pregnancy, I have had 2 better days and today has been bad, how could i throw a kid into that!!!! everything will work out in the end i have to believe that! anyway, I hope you are coping ok after your recent loss, it is so kind of you to continue with this after a horrible time for you and your family x
Jay I hope you are ok and dano x
February 23, 2013 at 1:08 pm
Thank you. I feel like I’ve dealt with the loss of my dad much better than I did that of my mom two years ago. I really lost control of my emotions for several months after she passed away. Even now, with the added stress of having to resolve both of their estates, the house, and dad’s passing itself, I’m much better able to cope. It’s pretty obvious to me that Paxil was a large factor in my inability to cope two years ago. man, I’m so glad I’m getting off this drug. I can’t wait until I don’t have to stare at that pill bottle every morning. Be confident that you’ll get to the point where you can look forward to a new family without any of the lingering issues of drugs hanging over you 🙂
February 22, 2013 at 9:30 am
Hi Emma, I am 37 in 6 months time, you are so right in what you have said, I should really stop thinking about it so much and just try and get better, my diet and exercise are not good at the moment but I feel a bit more motivation since dropping my tablets down to 7.5mg so will focus on the diet and exercise now. It does seem that more women are getting pregnant later in life and we are only 36, its good to get it from someone else persepective as well. I would be hoping to have 2 kids 🙂
February 22, 2013 at 11:22 am
well sinead lets keep each other motivated to get better and then crack on with it. Honestley diet is the best thing you can focus on, im not sure if you are in the states or uk so i will speak in stones and pounds but before i came off the drugs i was 20 stone which is 280 pounds, I have lost nearly 5 stone which is 70 pounds and although my head feels no better with the weight loss, my body certainley feels better, i have much more energy, need much less sleep which ia also good as i have very bad sleep due to withdrarawl at the moment, and i am consuming loads of iron and folic acid through my food, getting ready for a baby, whatever happens getting your body in a good state is a no loose thing to do. keep that motivation from dropping the dose to get your lifestyle better. Its funny when I first had withdrarawl if i felt really bad I couldnt eat, I had no appetite (i still get that), but when i did get a appetite i only ate crap, pizzas and ice cream, i didnt really care how i looked i just wanted to eat when i could and felt like it and to eat something i enjoyed, i actually went away for a week to a detox place 4 months after being completley off the drugs to try and cleanse my body, I had colonics and drank only fresh vegetable juice for 7 days, unfortunatley it did nothing for the withdrarawl but it kick started me into looking after my body, I now have 2 fresh vegetable juices a day and a healthy vegetarian dinner at night, the weight falls off and I am making all the good in me better, it has become a hobby understanding about nutrrition, and replacing the drugs with healthy eating, I am hoping that once I am through the withdrarawl with the super healthy eating I will also ward off any future depression or anxiety that may creep up later in life, I belive hypocrates said let food be thy medicine and I fully believe that. Not once when I initially went to the doctor with anxiety 15 years ago did they look at my diet of crap junk food, it was just have a pill, and now look where i am, wishing each day away to get better. But yes we are still young!! And my husband thinks 2 is a good number of kids to got for but I have always wanted more! any would be a blessingx
February 24, 2013 at 11:19 pm
Hi everybody,it’s been a while since i posted,
I had a very upsetting day on FRI, I had to meet my Psych at a Home for the elderly where she works with people with Alzheimer’s disease,anyways I’m parking my car and when I exit and head for the door,I hear a women cry out please someone help me,I look to my left and there is a women laying on her back half on half off the side walk,I run to her and when I get there she is covered in blood,her face was scraped up pretty good and she has a big gash in the bridge of her nose,which is bleeding profusely down her face,she asked me to help her up so she can get to her car,I told her your hurt really bad and need medical assistance,I get her up on her feet and at that time another man see’s me and I ask him to please help me and could you hold on to her so I can get help,he agreed and I run into the building and ask if there is a nurse or DR there, and would someone please call 911 because an elderly lady has fallen down and is bleeding badly,a nurse runs out with a security guard and she is helped into the building,she it turns out is 89 yrs old,visits her boy friend who is 92 and drives 60 miles ea. way.
I thanked the man who helped me and she was kept over night for observation.
By the time I see my Psych,I am shot and all I can do is just stare at her and say I feel so sorry for that woman,it really got to me because my mother is about that age and I still can’t believe that this woman is allowed to drive,because she has one very bad knee and uses a cane to walk with.
Anyways shes OK and I’m still a little upset but as my Psych said she a tough old bird and will be fine.
So I did my good deed for the year lol and I’m glad I was at the right place at the right time, God only knows how long she would have laid there till someone came along.
hope everybody is feeling better,
p.s I am now down to 2.5 mgs of Xanax a .5 mg cut,my next cut will be .0625 % next Monday wish me luck,
Jay
February 25, 2013 at 3:50 am
That would be great Emma to keep each other motivated. I lost a good bit of weight when I came off the Effexor back in August 2012 because I couldn’t eat either but then when I went on the Lexapro to help with the withdrawal I started eating crap again and became so unmotivated, coming down to 7.5mg has given me some motivation back to I am definitely going to start eating healthy and exercise. I am in Ireland and we speak in Stones as well 🙂 that is a great achievement you did losing 5 stone. I have been to another doctor who is the only doctor in Ireland qualified in Nutrient Therapy so I am doing his program now so going to incorporate this into my diet etc. When I initially went to my doctor back in 2008 after having 2 major panic attacks she didn’t ask me about my diet either or check me for lack of nutrients etc, apparently alot of people are lacking in magnesium and that can indeed lead to anxiety. I don’t know if this Nutrient Therapy will be a cure or help with my anxiety but I read alot about it and its worth a try. One thing is for sure Emma when we do get pregnant we will be the healthiest mother’s to be out there which will be a great start for our kids x
February 25, 2013 at 4:15 pm
totally agree sinead, we can be the best my=ums ever when the time is right, do you take magnesium? I have often thought about taking it but i take absolutlye nothing as i am worried anything will make withdrarawl worse.
Jay sounds like a reall horrowing experience, you did a good thing, so sad for her, and great news about taper x
February 26, 2013 at 10:36 am
Hey Emma, yep I take magnesium in powder form at night time and it really helps with the sleep, I have read up alot about it and my doctor suggests 1000mg a day, http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/health/real-life-pills-to-cure-mental-ills-26706894.html
this is a link to one of the articles about the doctor that I am seeing…..
February 28, 2013 at 5:30 am
this is a really intresting link and i have thought time and time again about taking the 3 things mentioned, B vitamins, magnesium and fish iols but i just cant bare the thought of anything making this worse and some people say supplements can agrivate the withdrarawl so i knind of think i will take thos when i am well again, on the other hand i am considering taking them today and trying it as i feel soo bad x
February 28, 2013 at 12:50 pm
Many people do feel relief with those 3 supplements. It’s a good idea to try a little bit of each, separately, to see how they affect you. For example, try 1 capsule good fish oil for a week, then 2 capsules for a week, etc. Then try 25mg magnesium for a week, then 50mg for a week. Don’t try all 3 at once or you won’t know which is good or bad.
February 26, 2013 at 7:11 am
feeling awful, i soooo want to get better, I hate this, sorry for doom and gloom, i honestly don’t know how I am getting through the days! x
February 27, 2013 at 3:52 am
so I’m weaning from 50 mg zoloft. I use capsules, and I break open one 25mg and take a sewing needle and scoop out 2-3 mg with the needle’s eye–so I’m stable at 47-48mg day presently. I weaned from 62.5 to 50mg/day last year and it was TOTAL HELL for 3 months, so I use the needle scoop method now to minimize the withdrawal. I bought a mg scale, but its not sensitive enough to measure the little bit of powder.i scoop out. .I’m soon ready to try 2 needle scoops, and go down to 44-45mg/day. any advice/comments on my method I invented?.
February 27, 2013 at 10:57 am
I’m doing something similar. I finally managed to convince my doctor to prescribe the 10mg Paxil pills, which has made tapering much easier. I’ve been using a nail file to shave the pills. It’s not a perfect method, I still get some variations in my dose. My doctor outright refused to prescribe liquid, so I’m stuck doing it the hard way. He’s still trying to convince me to go back up to my original dose (40mg/day). He’s not going to win that one.
I made a bigger than normal taper last time to get to 5mg/day. It’s much easier to split the 10mg pills down the middle, and being able to double the length of my prescriptions is a huge boon. It means I don’t have to go see my doctor nearly as much for refills. I’m almost as tired of his inane advice about tapering, and reverting to a full dose, as I am of the symptoms themselves.
I think the needle scoop method is a good one. It allows for fine control over the dose, which can get complicated when you’re int he middle of tapering. The best advice I can give is that you should taper based on how you feel, not on a set schedule. One of the mistakes I made when I was originally tapering was to drop my dose based on a calendar date, even if I was still feeling symptoms. The symptoms built up over successive tapers, and became unbearable more than once during my taper. Now, I wait until I’ve gone through a couple waves and windows before I taper again. My criteria for tapering is that the last wave has to have been very mild, and doesn’t recur for at least a couple weeks.
http://www.amazon.com/American-Weigh-Gemini-20-Portable-Milligram/dp/B0012TDNAM
I haven’t bought this scale, but a message board I go to recommends it.
February 27, 2013 at 12:28 pm
zman, you can get a prescription for liquid Zoloft or make a liquid yourself, see http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1441-tips-for-tapering-off-zoloft-sertraline/ This will help you measure more precisely and consistently. Same with Paxil.
February 27, 2013 at 6:57 am
was doing not too bad today, got through a really important meeting but anxiety crippling me without being fearful of anything, it is literally just there!! I felt like i was going to pass out at one point, cant wait to get home and try and walk it off!!! another day closer, another day closer, another day closer, don’t want to wish my life away but everyday through is another day closer to normality and recovery x
February 27, 2013 at 11:06 am
Emma, I’m so sorry that you’re still having problems. I hope it gets better soon, we all deserve a break from all these symptoms.
February 27, 2013 at 6:21 pm
Emma, do you have just an anxiety or depression/anxiety? For me those two sides of one of the worst symptoms seem to have cast an anchor – haven’t had a break for a long time. It’s so intense and correlates with a persistent awful feeling in the ears and head. From time to time it prompts me to think that it’s a “real” depression. What if?.. Then I am suffering so profoundly from what possible needs a more decisive intervention. Also, this condition triggers asthma attacks that don’t respond to any medication and a specialist is lost b/c there is no other remedy he could offer for relief. Before withdrawal the asthma and allergies had been well under control but now I am suffocating and don’t know what to do.
February 27, 2013 at 6:28 pm
Also, I completely lost any appetite, never happened before. I need to eat since I lost so much weight – no flesh at all. I feel like I am back to the very beginning of the withdrawal, just going around the vicious cycle over and over again.
February 28, 2013 at 5:49 am
Hi Jane, actually you have caught me on a really bad day depression wise, the worst for me now is anxiety and depression, both together and it is awful< i feel like I dont know what to d with myself, and in a way i feel like I am getting worse, I am 11 months off ssris today and the first 2 months were the most tolerable and i feel that now it is getting worse as i go along, so although i have got rid of the head brain foggy pressure thing which at the time seemed like the worst thing i am now plagued by anxiety and deep deep depression that I have never felt, it is so hard to describle, not even a fear just so low i could die (not suicidal but that is how it feels), and ontop of that massive frustration and confusion, like when i am speaking i am not making sense, I am also physically drained and as I am working from home I could go and have a nap and work later but I am scared too incase it messes up what liile sleep i get at night, or I wake up feeling worse, i feel so trapped, all i can do is try and do some work and pray that the feeling subsides in a bit, I amy go and read some success stories to help pull me up a bit as today i feel truley like it will never ened and I am striving for something, wellness that will never happen, or just isnt in me and my personality type, however when i went to bed last night i felt perfectley normal, no depression no anxiety just content and that was after a bad anxiety day, it is so frustrating that i can feel almost normal (only sometimes) at bed time and then I wake up having to deal with it all over again, when i am praying i will wake up feeling better and on the road to recovery. Anyway to answer your question, YES I often worry that I have REAL depression but the only thing that makes me think i dont and it is the brain readjusting is the fact that until I took ant depressants I had not had depression, I went to the doctor with anxiety, he said to me are you depressed, I said no, only sad that the anxiety was stopping me doing things I wanted to do but I did not feel depression, i didnt know what depression feels like, so the only time i had depression was when on the drugs and upping the dose made it really bad, aand only now again do i knnow depression off the drugs, so i am guessing my problems was anxiety, i ate rubbish food, i was at university and i smoke far to much pot, that caused anxiety biut i got treated for depression, now i am paying the price. I am really sorry for you Jane and I am just as sorry for myself this is truley the worst thing ever and i just donet see an end in sight and i do think about taking the drugs but i just couldnt face having my brain cluded by anything else, just keep reading the success stories, did yoiu read the one i posted??? keep in tuch, we will get better, funny thing this morning i had a better night sleep had around 5 hours i think and anxiety was as bad but the sheer horrible depression was awful and still is as i type. be strong that is all we can do, i am going to watch now a you tube clip of encouraging recovery chants, i will pst it, it is from the withdrarwl site recovery road x
March 1, 2013 at 12:51 am
Emma, you don’t have to describe what this withdrawal depression/anxiety feels like, I experience it every day – one day anxiety prevails, another – depression. But often if I have intense anxiety in the morning, depression rises and peaks at night. Besides, that awful head and ear squeezing sensation has gotten worse. My asthma’s deteriorated so dramatically – lung function is very poor, I am suffocating and coughing non-stop – and nothing helps. I know we have to be positive and believe that it’ll go away but feels like my condition is actually worsening, not other way around. I am in a total despair, completely lost, don’t know what to do next. The only thing I know that it’s impossible to sustain it for months and years ahead as people here with definitely good intentions declare. Npanth, if you can explain (speculatively, of course) what is going on behind the symptoms – doesn’t look like recovery is taking place.
March 1, 2013 at 5:06 pm
I had the same feelings for a long time. The symptoms seemed so entrenched that they would never get better, couldn’t get better. I think it’s a problem of relativity. When we’re in a wave, it becomes our reality. There is no long term planning, no vision of the future. The present overwhelms any thoughts outside the moment.
I hated the tight head feeling. It’s like a hat two sizes too small that you can’t take off. I think it’s a sign of a large disparity between the amount of drug you’re taking and how much your brain is expecting. Those symptoms diminished a lot for me when I started doing a very slow taper. I still get the same symptoms, but they are much more manageable when my dosage reductions are smaller. I still get anxiety, brain fog, stiff muscles, and all the other symptoms I had before. Now, though, they don’t last as long, and aren’t nearly as bad as before. It seems like there’s no escaping the symptoms themselves, just ways of mitigating them.
Your asthma problem may be related to withdrawal. I don’t have the medical knowledge to tie them together or rule it out. I assume that your normal treatments aren’t helping. I’m not sure what effect adding a steroid based medicine would have on withdrawal. You might get a better answer on http://www.paxilprogress.org or http://survivingantidepressants.org/ There are more people with medical knowledge on those sites, and people who have had to deal with both asthma and withdrawal. I hope you find a good treatment for it. As I’m typing, I’m imagining withdrawal and asthma together. Those are two conditions that would feed each other in very unpleasant ways. yuck.
February 28, 2013 at 5:20 am
thanks npanth so do i, today no anxiety but excrutiaiting depressin, one minutes scared of dieing the next i want to die to stop what i can only describe as almost a physical doom and dread not fear just so low i could lie on the floor, my poor husband said if that helps then lie on the floor in a crumpled mess but it wont change anything, i actually dont know what to do with my self fortunatley I am working from home today, I just have to wait for it to pass x
March 1, 2013 at 7:08 am
hey Jane, I can understand everything you are going throuh apart from the asthma and for that I would massively recomend cutting out all dairy, every single piece, eggs cheese and milk, I would gurantee that will help a bit!! yesterday was awful for me and was just horrendous, nothing helped, however today, again 4 am wake up call with massive anxiety, but because anxiety is more physical it isnt as bad, so today I am trapped in huge anxiety, and a lot of crying but still better than yesterday. It will never be linear until recovery. I have spoken to the withdrarawl helpline today, they are great, I used them a lot on the begining, a lot of the time you have to leave a message and your number but they do call you back, and they are so encouraging that you will get better and this is what happens, their number is 0151 9320102, they have made me feel better today. I wish I could help you, I wish I could help me!!!! Got a . I started taking, B vitamins, magnesium and fish oil today, I will see how that works out for me x
February 27, 2013 at 7:40 am
Hang in there emma,
Does anybody know how long this dizziness and off balance will last? I just can’t seem to get it under control and I’m starting to wonder if this is going to be permanent,I started taking Cipro for an infection and 3 days into the course the anxiety and dizziness was off the roof,I stopped the cipro but I’m still having the off balance and dizziness,this has been going on now for 3 months.
Jay
February 27, 2013 at 11:05 am
I had a lot of dizziness for a long time. It didn’t just stop, it faded away and started to become intermittent. I still get it from time to time, but it’s much milder than it was before. That was one of the frightening symptoms, especially when it hit while I was walking… or driving! I had to pull over a couple times because everything just started spinning all of a sudden.
You’ve had a couple ups and downs in dose, and been on a couple different meds in the meantime. It may take some time for your dizziness to taper away. I hope it doesn’t take too long. Patience is the hardest virtue in withdrawal, but it does seem to be the only real cure.
February 28, 2013 at 5:56 am
hey jay, i have read alot about dizziness and now people that have vertigo from withdrarawl so common i think but sounds as horrible as all the other symptoms. I cant believe patience is the medicine we need, such a shame there isnt a quick fix, no one deserves this pain and anguish, i will hang in there and you too x
February 28, 2013 at 9:48 am
I agree that it seems like there should be some kind of treatment for withdrawal vertigo. I tried a couple supplements, fish oil, vitamins, magnesium, but they didn’t help me very much. That’s not to say that they might not help anyone else. In my case, I just had to ride it out until it went away.
February 28, 2013 at 8:54 pm
Npanth;
I am sorry for your loss.
Jay:
How is your database going?
Emma; Jane and everyonelse hoping and wishing you the best.
It’s been a few weeks so I thought I might give an update. I’ve had good and bad days over the last couple weeks. Business trips and work stress has been no fun lately. What has helped me the most is basically telling myself, yes I am still alive and I’m not dieing because I have felt most of this crappy feeling many times before. Accepting the fact that time is unfortunately the only healing medicine helps me out. Yep I have another headache or insert side affect here _______; I have made it thru it every other time and this time is no different. However overly simple it sounds acceptance of this condition has helped me threw lately. It still really stinks but I’m hopefull for better days. I’ve really been trying to think and be aware of almost every situation I’m in and why it makes me feel bad. Wishing everyone better days and warm sunny days.
March 1, 2013 at 5:23 pm
Thanks, Dano. It’s been difficult. In a weird way, Dad’s passing has taught me a lot about my own progress in withdrawaling from Paxil. When my mom passed away two years ago, I was on a full dose of Paxil. I lost my mind. I felt the “steps of grief” very intensely, and lost control for several months. When dad passed away, I was on 6mg/day of Paxil. I’m holding myself together fairly well. There’s still grief, but there isn’t that loss of control or inappropriate emotions like there was two years ago.
According to the psychological canon, I should have been in control on the drug, and out of control at this low dose. The reverse is true. This experience has reinforced my belief that I’m doing the right thing by getting off this drug. I just wish that conviction didn’t have to happen the way it did.
February 28, 2013 at 11:34 pm
Hi All, Just want to chime in here. I was on 20mg of Paxil for TWELVE years. I decided that it was time I go off, because I am at a good place in my life and also because my fiance are talking about getting pregnant after we get married, and I don’t want that in my system.
Anyway, I met with a psychiatrist who told me to wean down to 10mg for a month and then stop, which I did, and it threw my whole world into a tail spin. I went back up to 5mg for a while but that didn’t seem to help, so I just decided to go through this insanity. I call it insanity because I have a constant terrible headache that never goes away, I have lightheadedness with the brain zaps you are all talking about. I was always a patient person but feel like my fuse is very short, I cry everyday, and have been feeling like a different person.
This is where I’m at now. And I am so angry at myself for being on this med for so long, and angry at doctors for not taking me off of it sooner, and mostly NO ONE warned me of this withdrawal which has a name “SSRI Discontinuation Syndrome”, it is beyond ludicrous.
I have continued exercising every day as I did before, even though it is a struggle, I am eating healthy, and have not drank any alcohol. I also boosted up the Omega 3 supplements I’ve been taking, as well as started to take the supplement called “SAM-e”, which I heard both helps. I have tried Advil, Aleve, and Tylenol, and nothing works.
I am beyond frustrated, and so tempted to grab my Paxil bottle and start taking it again. But I can’t do that. UGH!!!
At this point I’m willing to try anything. I don’t do drugs but I am really considering smoking marijuana. Does anyone know if this helps? Does anyone know of anything that helps? Please let me know.
Thank you all so much for taking the time to read this. I feel that I’m not alone.
March 1, 2013 at 7:23 am
hey Lainey, I too was on Paxil for 12 years, I ranged from 20mg to 60mg, up and down over those years, I too am so mad that I was left to rot on them and told I would need to be on them all my life!!! I have been off 11 months now, its funny you mentin marijuana, as it is what got me here in the first place!! I was smoking loads at university which triggered anxiety as it would because it is paranoia inducing, so because of that obvios paranoia I was put on drugs, I would never touch marijuana with a barge pole, I hate to say it but nothing can make yu feel better other than what you are doing which is being healthy, not one of us on here have found anything other than time to see improvements, it is hard to have to go through this, I too want to start a family as does Jane on here but that cant even be considered until we see recovery!!!! good luck you will get thrugh it x
March 1, 2013 at 12:47 pm
Hi Emma, Thank you so much for your response. How long did you experience withdrawal symtoms? Due to the research I have done, I have decided against marijuana. But this sure is hell. I haven’t felt like myself in weeks.
March 1, 2013 at 2:47 pm
hey lainey I am really sorry to say that I am not through withdrarawl, it has been hard going but I am still here, all I keep thinking is recovery could be days away for all i know, and i work with that every day that I have to get through. some of my symptoms have gone away but the ones that remain are still horrible, mine have all been psychological not physical which is horrible but let me tell you this, you were on a lower dose, and everyone is diffrent, you could turn a corner in days. A really really good website to look at is recover-road.org, the success stories will encourage, and the book the lady has written by Bliss Johnson is such a great help x
March 1, 2013 at 4:45 pm
You psychiatrist gave you the standard “jump off a cliff” tapering schedule. My doctor gave me the same schedule. It baffles me that they continue to give this advice when a large percentage of their tapering patients must come back to them in the depths of withdrawal. I can only assume it’s a combination of industry denial and a lack of critical thinking. My doctor tried to diagnose me with psychosis when I went to him during withdrawal, despite having my entire history of mild social anxiety right in front of him. I’ve never had symptoms of that diagnosis before or since I did a fast Paxil taper.
Stopping an SSRI with a fast taper or cold turkey can prolong and worsen the symptoms. You might consider reinstating. It’s not a panacea, SSRI seem to have a Garden of Eden type effect where they are not as effective the second or third time you try to take them. It is a method for weaning off the drug more slowly, though. It can sometimes take quite a while to get stable enough to start tapering again after reinstating.
I tapered off 40mg/day (12 years, as well) over the course of 5 months. It was WAY too fast, but still more than twice as long as my doctor’s schedule. I reinstated and held at 10mg/day for about 4 months before I started tapering again. That was a little over a year ago. I’m down to 5mg/day now. I’m tapering even slower than the withdrawal community recommends, which is 10% drops every 4-6 weeks. I’m determined to get off Paxil the right way, though, and never look back when I hit zero. Pharmaceutical companies and doctors usually say that discontinuation symptoms only last for 4-6 weeks, but that’s not really true. Withdrawal can be quite prolonged after a fast taper. I don’t want to be the person who recommends going back onto the drug, but it may be the best method in the long run.
I’m sorry you’re stuck like this, between withdrawal symptoms and the prospect of going back on the drug. It was a very hard decision for me, too. I hope you feel better soon.
March 1, 2013 at 12:36 am
Thanks for the pep talk everybody,I’m in a real bad place right now and just when I thought I was getting better, I get hit with the worst wave I have ever had,right now I have all i can do to keep myself from tripping over my own two feet,my speech is slurd and i get very frustrated because i can’t string words together,I am screwing up at work and this is something I’ve never done,npanth I too had to pull over the other day because of dizziness, i thought for sure it was all over but I managed to get to the break down lane and wait it out,this scares me more than anything because if I lose control of my car and cause a serious accident ,I could never forgive myself, especially if someone got hurt seriously or I caused a fatality.
I have gone from one extreme to the other with this withdraw,I see my Psych tomorrow but I don’t know what good it will do, most likely she will tell me I told you so and want to start me on another ssri, but I’m hoping I’m wrong and she gives a good pep talk.
sorry this is all i can handle right now,
keep up the good work everybody,
jay
March 1, 2013 at 4:47 pm
Hang in there Jay. I’ll make it short. I know how hard it is to concentrate on tl;dr in withdrawal.
Try to remind yourself that waves are temporary. the pendulum will swing back to a window, eventually. Be careful and gentle with yourself 🙂
March 1, 2013 at 7:33 am
oh Jay it is so heartbreaking to hear our friends like you going through such hard times. I hope your psych keeps encouraging you, look how far you have come!!!!! you may still feel awful but you are closer to recovery!!!!! that is all i can do at the moment, tell myself no matter how bad the day has been, it is one more day I can cross off that has taken me a day closer to being well. You will get there, and for me to be able to say that when i feel so bad is a true belief in recovery, keep going!!
Dano sounds like you are encouraging yourself in the right way, today I have chanted to myself I am gettinge better, be strong all x
March 4, 2013 at 3:04 am
so here is an update, I had not too bad a weekend, not anywhere how i would like to be but manageable, and the reason why……..beacause I had a bad stomach ache, so as per usual having something physical lessens the psychological side. I had my third session of accupuncture, havent got a clue if it is doing anything at all but will keep trying, and been taking b12, magnesium and omega 3, i guess i wont know if theat helps for at least a month but it doesnt seem to be making anything worse. I tried to go to bed earlier last night as I wake up around 3 to 4 am with anxiety, i thought if i go to bed earlier and still wake up at that time at least i could get the sleep in earlier in the night, but no i ended up waking u at 3am with horrible anxiety, it is sooo horrible and then when i get up i just feel so drained and doom and fear and low, today this morining i said to my husband oi felt like i could cry, throw up, sleep and collapse all at the same time, i really dont know how i am still going, i just want to see a light at the end of the tunnel, and know that i really will get better, i need to believe it to keep going, this is so cruel!!! hope evryone else is ok x
March 4, 2013 at 6:48 am
The same thing happened to me. I tried going to sleep earlier, but it didn’t seem to help my symptoms. Eventually, it did, though. Sleep is one of the biggest things that withdrawal messes up. It’s frustrating that we can’t even “sleep it off”. I’m mostly back to normal sleep, now. There are nights when I lie awake even now. It’s still improving, though. It gets easier when the trajectory becomes clearer. I can see that it will eventually get back to normal.
March 6, 2013 at 8:50 am
hey npanth do you think your sleep improved beacuse you have drug back in your body although very little or do you think it was time, I am running on empty, so tired and all the symptoms, its a killer! x
March 4, 2013 at 4:43 pm
I just came across this website and thank npanth for putting it together and all of you for sharing your stories and advice. I’ll admit I haven’t had a chance to read all of the posts yet, but from what I have read I feel both encouraged (that I am not alone in how I feel) and upset (this may take years of my life to get thru!?). But one day at a time…
My situation is this – I am 47 and had been taking Zoloft for over 15 years. I don’t know the exact year, which doctor started me on it, or even what started me on it but it was a long time ago. I say “had” been taking it as I am currently drug-free (if only I was happily drug free it would be different story ;-|). Most of the time I was unsupervised. I would just call up my PDOC and ask for another year’s worth with my mail order Rx plan at the time and wouldn’t even need to see him. I also was unregulated in my dosage – but during this period would take either 100mg/day or 200mg as I felt I needed it.
During this time I also was diagnosed with sleep apnea and for most of the time could not tolerate a CPAP. So I also took Provigil 300 mg/day which (by comparison to Zoloft) was treated like a controlled substance. But with the Provigil I managed to get by each day as without I would not have been able to function. I’m happy to report that for the past couple years I have gotten off the Provigil and found some CPAP equipment I can tolerate. I’ll also admit ahead of time to the irony in that the Provigil was by comparison to Zoloft a walk in the park to stop.
Over these years, several times I had attempted to get off Zoloft but after about day 3 when the “zaps” started I would chicken out and resume. After all, not one was telling me to get off other than the fact that I just didn’t feel like taking something I felt I didn’t really need. So in essence I was just trapped on this stuff but never even considering how serious it all was. After all, when I first started taking it I know it was presently as a drug with a large upside and relatively minor side-effects. Certainly no one mentioned discontinuation issues and probably didn’t know of them at that time.
So… forward a decade and a half. I started off late 2012 wanting a change. I didn’t know to what but just knew I was taking 200mg of Zoloft and didn’t feel it was doing much of anything. So I went to my wife’s psych who seemed to know everything about all these kinds of drugs, there interactions, etc… After talking, we agreed I would try some Wellbutrin. I would start by taking smaller doses of it while still on the Zoloft and over some period of time would gradually switch over. But certainly nothing at all like the conservative tapering schedules I have read about since. Over the first several days, I felt great. Lot’s a new energy with the only downside being a slight dizziness. However, after the first couple days the energy lessened and the dizziness got worse. So the psych suggested that the Zoloft may have an exacerbating effect on the Wb so he wanted me to get off the Zoloft first and then resume the Wb by itself. Bad move!
I basically tapered abruptly off the Zoloft. By the end of the week I was out of my mind! I practically destroyed my wife’s car while being a passenger. My anger was so intense and I was just like a bystander having no ability to stop this destructive anger/violence. It finally ended with me sitting on the floor just screaming at the top of my lungs until I was hoarse.
The psych put me right back on Zoloft and I think it shook him up. He certainly prescribes this stuff all day long but actually has very little idea about these withdrawal issues – prevalence or severity. What he did suggest was, in his words, if he switched me over to Prozac for a while with its longer half-life he could get me off the stuff no problem. So I started the switch. Initially 100mg Zoloft + 10mg Prozac. Then 50mg Zoloft + 20mg Prozac. And finally just 20mg Prozac. This shifting over occurred over perhaps 3 – 4 weeks. I noticed that as I started lowering the Zoloft the dizziness/spaciness started. But not much in the way of zaps and none of the uncontrolled anger. But it wasn’t symptom-free. From there I got off the Prozac after a couple weeks.
Fast forward to now. I am now 32 days ssri free and have the following issues. Brain zaps (or what I would call “fades”) which seem to be somewhat motion induced but feel like waves of on and off “dimming” which I swear feels more like a blood pressure thing than electrical. Some tingling in fingers/toes but not severe. Dizziness! Just unsteadiness in gait and not quite in control of my body. Fortunately I feel “ok” emotionally – no real anger or depression/anxiety to speak of – other than the fear that my brain is screwed up. And if I try to exercise I get these very back headaches that are different from other headaches I’ve had in my past. These seem to be located near the back of my head near the base of my skull and it feels like the blood vessels are too small for the amount of blood needed to go thru them. There is this “squeezing” feeling and makes me have to stop exerting. It goes away after maybe half hour or so.
I keep expecting that these symptoms, while very unpleasant, would have resolved themselves by now as I braved the worse of it. But I’m still feeling worse each day although by now the Prozac should be out of my system. I found TheRoadBack website and ordered supplements from the suggested retailer – JNK pills, Vitamin E, and most importantly Omega 3 for which I am taking 8 pills a day (4 am and 4 at lunch) per the suggestions of Jim Harper. I can’t say if they are really helping or not – maybe I’d be much worse if I didn’t take them but since I am I don’t know. All I know is I’m on my second bottle of the Omega 3 in the hope that they are actually helping.
On the positive side, I never really knew how much of a “zombie” I had become on the Zoloft until I’ve been free of it. People see a different side of me they never knew. I am able to laugh and mean it and, despite the spaciness, do have some extra bit of mental clarity. I just can’t stand not feeling like I am coordinated or able to exercise and enjoy life. I feel like life is on hold until I can get past these symptoms and the more time goes by and the more I read the more fearful I become that I am looking at a long, long time to get better if at all.
It is just hard to be taken serious since there is nothing that anyone can see or measure. I don’t know of any doctor of any time that has any real clue what this is about or how to help. I just see lots of patients posting and it scares the hell out of me!
So I’m getting close to 2 months off Zoloft and over a month ssri free. Was this too abrupt? If I tough it out and give it time, will it work out eventually or if I went back on something and tapered in the long run will it take less time? I just figure with the couple of months I’ve put in already I don’t want to have to go through that all over again by reinstituting something to help alleviate these symptoms. But I know I can’t be like this long term. I’d rather be a zombie than someone too dizzy to do any physical activity. I just don’t want it to come to that and have no idea where I am in the healing schedule. If anyone has gone through something similar, I would greatly appreciate knowing how long the zaps and dizziness lasted.
Best wishes to you all and thanks in advance for letting me vent and share my story!
March 4, 2013 at 5:32 pm
Thanks for sharing, Dave. In some ways, I had a similar experience with Paxil. I tapered down from 40mg/day to zero in about 5 months. I thought I was being smart by more than doubling my doctor’s tapering schedule. Turns out, I was going way too fast. The two months off Paxil were eye opening. I was dizzy and uncoordinated, but I suddenly became very creative. I wrote, studied, engaged with my friends. They all kept saying that the Old James was re appearing right before their eyes. After two months, I crashed, and had to reinstate at 10mg/day. It was very frustrating to start taking Paxil again. I could feel the numbness lowering over my mind this time. I hadn’t really noticed how I was changing when I first started taking it. I really felt it the second time, though. The writing and studying stopped (I couldn’t concentrate anymore). I still engaged with my friends, though. Some parts of my drug free transformation remained.
I’m not saying that you have a crash coming. Everyone’s different when it comes to getting off these drugs. Some people can tolerate it better than others. For me, it was the stress of a couple job interviews that caused me to crash. Those were emotional triggers that exposed a fragility in my recovery that I hadn’t seen before.
If you do wind up having severe problems, don’t feel bad about reinstating at a lower dose. I have a post on this site about calculating a reinstatement dose. Essentially, you calculate what dose you would be taking now if you had done 10% tapers every 4-6 weeks from the beginning. You can also get good advice about it at http://www.paxilprogress.org or http://survivingantidepressants.org Don’t think of reinstatement as a failure or a lack of strength. It’s more of a second chance to taper off the drug properly.
The problem is most doctors treat this class of drugs as interchangeable and innocuous. They’re neither. They are very powerful psychotropic drugs that cause difficult withdrawal symptoms.
The zaps are usually the first symptom of withdrawal. For most people, they evolve into other symptoms as time goes by. The rage you felt is one of the longer term symptoms. I was very angry for a long time. it wasn’t justifiable anger, it was irrational rage. Withdrawal disables the normal emotional filters we rely on to moderate most of our mental lives. The example I usually use is when you get cut off in traffic. The whole range of emotions are present. Slow down, speed up, tailgate, shout, even ram them. We live with the entire emotional spectrum in our minds all the time, even the psychotic. we don’t notice the extreme emotions most of the time because our personalities filter them out before they reach our conscious minds. In withdrawal, that automatic filter is removed and every emotion gets equal weight in our conscious mind. You have to actively filter your emotions until that automatic filter reasserts itself. My pet theory is that SSRI replace that cultural/intrinsic filter with a drug based one. When the drug is removed, it takes some time for the natural filter to re establish itself.
Hang in there. You know better than anyone else what your limits are. You may be able to “tough it out” until the symptoms become more manageable. It’s not a matter of will power. As I said, the drugs supplant will power to a large degree, so it evaporates for a time when the drug is removed. I hope you feel better soon.
March 4, 2013 at 6:46 pm
Dave, I am so sorry to hear about your hard time. I can only relate all to well with them. I have now been 7 days Paxil free and still get brain zaps and a weird kind of a headache. I cried every day last week, I felt as if I was naked for the first time. Also I feel on edge and can easily be angered. It was so terrible that I think I threw my immune system into shock because I now am home with a terrible head and chest cold. I am a complete mess.
So you are NOT alone. If you read my story above I was on Paxil for 12 years.
Once thing that I recommend is a good cardio vascular work out, that will help with your anger, and produce enorphins in your body. Also realize where the anger, and depression are coming from, and have compassion for yourself, and know that you’re doing a good thing by going off the meds.
Hang in there and hope you get better soon.
March 4, 2013 at 7:05 pm
Lainey, thank you for the kind words! I am also saddened to hear about your struggles – 7 days “free” in 12 years. It does feel like “freedom” even if (in the case we have to get back on them) it is only a temporary parole. But just to have that blanket lifted… You hang in there too and best wishes!!
March 4, 2013 at 7:12 pm
npanth, thanks so much for your kind words and sharing your experiences! I guess, as much as I’d like to be off this cr*p, I do need to try and figure out what is best realizing that this is a long term process. And that it isn’t weakness. From what I understand, I believe I was on a pretty high dose of the stuff for quite some time. So that is a strike against me from what I read. I will try and find that post about how to reinstate if that becomes my decision. I also need to talk to my psych to see if he is prepared to help me taper at a slow level and prescribe liquid Zoloft as it gets to that stage. I got the impression he had never prescribed any liquid SSRI’s before. I am just getting a bit scared that if I do decide I need Zoloft again that this “garden of Eden” effect may prove that it won’t help now that I’ve gotten off 😦 Very scary prospect indeed!! Thank you again 🙂
March 4, 2013 at 7:24 pm
npanth, I read the “how to reinstate” posting. Not that I’ve decided to, but I’m still confused as to what dosage I would consider restarting. Thing is, I had vacillated between 100 and 200 mg over years and am not sure what I would use as my “before tapering” dosage. Thanks again!
March 4, 2013 at 10:56 pm
The garden of eden effect isn’t quite as bad as it might seem. I use the term to describe how reinstating isn’t as effective as the first time taking the drug. If you do find yourself in a position where reinstating seems like the best course of action, it will alleviate the worst symptoms. It just won’t be a complete reset to the way it worked in the past. Somehow, going from a drugged state to a clear state changes the way the drug affects us. When I reinstated, the crippling symptoms went away within a few days. The zaps, headaches and head pressure, those dissipated rather quickly. I still had trouble concentrating and my emotions fluctuated a great deal. One of the things that characterized my Paxil use was an internal feeling of emotional numbness and an outward disregard for how I expressed my emotions. It made me very insular and disagreeable to the people around me. While I was tapering too fast, those emotions where very raw and at the surface. Reinstating added the numb part, but still left me vulnerable to my emotions. Other aspects of reinstating are similar to that. It fixes some problems, but doesn’t put you back into the same state of mind you were in on the drug. It’s as if your mind has realized that it was caged for so long, and rails against it happening again.
The reinstatement dose is a bit tricky to calculate.
http://www.paxilprogress.org/forums/showthread.php?t=41850 this page has a spreadsheet that will let you plug in dosages and taper dates to calculate what a good reinstatement dose would be. I think the best dose to use as a starting point would be the dose that you were on before you started tapering. So, if you were on 100mg/day for the previous couple months before you started tapering, then use 100mg as a starting dose. 200mg if that was the dose you were on for a couple months or
more.
March 5, 2013 at 7:44 am
Hi Dave, IMO you’re doing the right thing by reinstating. I took zoloft(sertraline in the uk) for a total of 6 months and due to a too fast weaning schedule I’m still in WD 1 year later. If i could turn back time and was in your shoes I’d get back right back on the zoloft if you can. You could try 50mg initially and see if you can stabalise on this over a few months. Good luck x
March 5, 2013 at 6:08 pm
One of the little struggles I had when I reinstated was a feeling that I had failed somehow. I’ve come to realize that reinstating isn’t an admission of weakness so much as an opportunity to taper off the drug slowly with fewer/milder symptoms. I’m not adamant about reinstating. If you feel that you can hang on for a while, by all means, try that. It’s a big step going back on the drug. The shortcoming of waiting is that the time it takes to get stable enough to start tapering again will be lengthened. Tapering is already such a long process that a couple months tacked on doesn’t seem overwhelming, except when you’re living those months one minute at a time. If that’s hwere you are, go ahead and reinstate.
There are two things to keep in mind while tapering. You will reach the end, and be free of this drug eventually. Also, you want to minimize symptoms as much as you can while getting there. Do what’s best for you, we’ll support whatever decision you make.
March 5, 2013 at 7:13 pm
Dave
If you are really ready to stop go for it and believe me I know that is an answer with more questions than I can answer. Just know that this is literally a life changing event with bad and good outcomes throughout your journey. By saying good, I mean really good and by bad, I mean really bad. Being mentally prepared can really help. That is an understatement for sure.
It seems as though many of us have had bad affects from a taper that was way to fast. If you can taper slowly it sounds as though the side affects can be reduced. Even a slow taper takes corage and will power to want to be free.
Fill your mind with good information on this condition from web sites that Alto mentioned. This info will truelly help you in your battle. Yes you will read very depressing stories but these stories can help you through it. You will also read stories that make you cry with happiness. I’m going to write this again because it is important. This is literally a life changing decision. All of the mentall preparedness you can give yourself will help. You will come upon challenges in your new drug free life than can horrify you temporarily. You have to repeat temporary many times. You are not alone in your battle witch in itself can ease this process.
The answer to how long it will take is not an answer that anyone can answer. If someone does give you a time frame to when you will be better. Be very weary of that persons advice because there is no crystall ball for this stuff.
Good luck in your journey and see you on the other way better side.
March 6, 2013 at 2:33 pm
Dano,
I think your post really puts things in perspective and I appreciate you sharing those words of wisdom!!
March 7, 2013 at 2:23 pm
hey dano, really good advice, are you seeing improvements? x
March 7, 2013 at 5:36 pm
Emma:
I work in the fabrication and welding industry. We test new products from time to time and last week we tested some new welding wire. As you may or may not know if you are unprotected during welding the intense light produced from the electrical arc will literally burn your skin like a sunburn. Well being the tuff boss man I was unprotected and my face and eyelids got burnt. I am telling this long story because one of my withdrawl symptoms was my face felt like it was sunburnt and it wasnt for at least three months. My artificial sunburn this past week made me realize this symptom has gone and has been gone for at least five or six months. I am without a doubt better than I was six months ago; way better. I am by no means fully recovered yet. What ever the hell fully recovered means I don’t know yet. This will be day seven without having to take an aspirin for headaches. I still struggle with depersonalization daily.
When symptoms appear I have been able to calm myself by saying I have been through this crap before and I didn’t die. The symptoms have not gone away but they have lessended. For me mentall acceptance has helped. My sleep quality has increased recently. My bowel issues have cleared up months ago.
March 7, 2013 at 6:56 pm
That’s how I notice the lack of symptoms, too. I’ll run across something that would have been an emotional trigger 6 months ago and realize that it doesn’t bother me now. We only seem to recognize progress after it’s happened. That’s one of the ironic things about withdrawal. We want so desperately to get better, then don’t recognize that we are getting better.
You’re absolutely right about being mindful of your emotions. That has helped me through several crises. Like you say, I have no idea what “normal” I”m shooting for, but whatever it is, I’m making progress towards it.
March 7, 2013 at 8:43 pm
I have no ideal how to apply mindfulness in my situation. You are saying that brain zaps is usually the first symptom and not long lasting. Actually, I almost didn’t have it at the beginning but I am getting it now. It’s obviously not one of my main concern but it indicates to me that there hasn’t been any progress (in addition to that I don’t notice it). Also, at the beginning I lost sense of smell and taste, then they somehow returned, and later disappeared again. Not only that but I completely lost any appetite and eating is equivalent to feeding myself against the will. There is nothing left in my life not that I could enjoy or have any pleasure with but just neutral, not causing suffering. I am progressively losing weight despite making myself to eat. I don’t know how to bear…
March 7, 2013 at 9:44 pm
Jane, it’s hard to be mindful at the bottom. The thoughts come too fast and strong to really get a handle on them. I spent a lot of time at the mercy of those thoughts with little hope that it would ever get better. I mostly gritted it out until the thoughts did become more controllable. A friend of mine calls it “Bunker mode”. Mindfulness really starts to have an effect once the symptoms start to break up. The fact that your symptoms are changing is a sign that you’re recovering. It’s very slow, but it is progress. I know it doesn’t feel like progress. It feels like you’re always slipping backwards. Your brain is working through it’s problems, though. The chaos will abate eventually.
The despair that withdrawal creates is overwhelming. It’s a terrible symptom. There doesn’t seem like there’s any letup for a long time.Try to imagine yourself feeling better in the future. It will get better, the hard thing is trying to form an image of it right now. Be strong, try to be gentle with yourself. Self recrimination is very common in withdrawal. We’re our own worse critics. It’s important to have sympathy for yourself and be kind to yourself.
March 7, 2013 at 10:14 pm
Thank you npanth. The problem with me that it’s not the terrible thoughts that I can’t sort through and apply mindfulness to them, it’s horrible feelings – physical, mental, emotional. At this point I am not able not only manipulate with the thoughts, I almost don’t have them. It’s just at the physiological level, not the higher cognitive level. I am telling you I feel like I stopped being a human. What changes make you think that I am recovering. All the symptoms are there, none of them are completely gone. It seems to me as a vicious cycle: some subside but only for a little while, some become more prominent, then at some point they all attacking me at the same time. I am so sorry, I am in a real despair, my patience is no longer present – it’s been torture all along. May be because I have Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and suffocating asthma – withdrawal is so extreme for me. I really doesn’t know how to survive. I try to talk myself into your hopeful statement that withdrawal is temporary but it doesn’t work for me because the dynamics so far hasn’t shown the signs to confirm that. Tell me how to convince myself to internalize that statement and make a mantra out of it when my body repels it as foreign. Thank you
March 7, 2013 at 10:37 pm
To visualize myself feeling better (normal would be too ambitious) is beyond my power, it’s just too painful because doesn’t feel realistic. Unfortunately, I find that all good advices and intentions do not apply to me, like I’ve crossed a certain borderline and all the attempts that somewhat help other people do not make a dent for me. When I try to implement any recommendations I feel even worse. It’s like everything is shattered and there is nothing on earth that I could cling to of feel a little safer as I am walking on the minefield. None of the specialists I’ve seen so far (conventional/non-conventional alike) managed to genuinely relate to my problem, they all knew right away without asking and listening what the problem was and how to solve it – I felt very remote and frustrated right away. Sorry.
March 8, 2013 at 7:05 am
Jane, I started out the same way. Mindfulness can help with physical and emotional symptoms as well as depression. It’s very hard in the beginning, very hard. I couldn’t find a place to start using mindfulness to help with my symptoms. There didn’t seem to be any foundation for getting better. Everywhere I stepped, it just slid out from underneath me.
The reason I say that fluctuations in symptoms is progress is because that is the place that recovery starts. In the beginning, the fluctuations are small and fleeting, with another symptom waiting to start right up. After a while, there are little windows of time when you only have one or two symptoms. Eventually, that turns into real recovery.
This is the hardest part of withdrawal. The symptoms are at their worst, and there are no tools to make things better. It will get better. I know that sounds like a platitude, but it’s true. Hang on. You just have to get a little further until it starts to get better. It could be tomorrow, the next day. Some time, you will look back and realize that several symptoms don’t bother you anymore. That’s the point when withdrawal starts to gain its own momentum.
I know the despair at the bottom. It’s overwhelming and never seems to let up. Time is the best remedy. Your brain is reorganizing around a new form, one without the drug. It’s a wrenching, disruptive process. It will get better, though. Please, hang in there.
March 8, 2013 at 3:13 pm
Hi All, I have been reading a bunch of your posts and it seems like some of you aren’t doing so good. I wanted to suggest one thing and point out another. The first day I was Paxil free, I started taking a supplement called SAM-e. I heard about it from the renowned doctor, Dr. Weil in Prevention magazine. Here is some information on it:
http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/QAA401019/Is-SAMe-Worthwhile-for-Depression.html
I really think it has helped me get over my initial shock of withdrawal, mostly my depressive symptoms. Actually Dr. Weil has a lot of other helpful information about SSRI’s on his website. I still have brain zaps, and terrible headaches, but I don’t feel the need to cry every day.
Also, I want to remind everyone that on Sunday, most of the country changes their clocks to daylight savings. The extra hour of sunlight will help a lot of folks with depressive feelings. So that is something to look forward to.
Anyway, I am now almost two weeks Paxil free and I’m hoping my days will only get better, but know they’ll definitely be brighter. Healing and loving energy to you all!!!
March 8, 2013 at 9:12 pm
Npanth, with all due respect, your answers do not strike an accord with me, I am really sorry. You keep saying that at the beginning you felt the same way. But I’ve been into withdrawal for a whole year completely off of the drug and in addition 6-8 ms while tapering when I already started to experience symptoms though didn’t know what was causing that. I’ve been feeling violently ill for more that a year since and had wide fluctuations all along. Almost all of my symptoms stay and I am getting new and new, and an overall condition deteriorates too. May be, it’s different with me because I have other serious chronic conditions and they got totally out of control. I did get some windows at the beginning but now – it’s so intense, just leaves absolutely no gap to breathe and pushes me to the edge. I don’t see how it could indicate the beginning of a recovery process, any hints of it, all I see – it’s getting more and more cruel, just consuming me and chewing me up. I feel like dying every single day without a break. And you call it a recovery? My asthma’s gotten so much worse that the doctor put me on 3 medication at the same time – very aggressive regimen, and it definitely affects the withdrawal but what can I do – I can’t sacrifice a breathing for the sake of withdrawal. Doctor don’t take my pleadings about withdrawal into account, he looks only from his angle. Sorry for being so bitter but all this makes me desperately suicidal, I am sorry to admit. My patience’s worn off completely. I don’t see anybody or anything to help me just a little bit, except you, guys but it’s not sufficient given the magnitude of the struggle.
March 8, 2013 at 11:51 pm
Jane, I’m so sorry that you’re feeling so bad. I try to associate what you’re feeling with the way I felt. I had suicidal ideation during withdrawal, too. The asthma and meds are compounding the problem. I know the desperate feeling of not getting any relief from normal channels. It does get better, though. I’ve talked to a lot of people who were in similar places who recovered. It’s the drug and withdrawal that is causing you to feel like that, not a failure on your part. Try to find some support other than your doctor. It sounds like he is dismissive of your symptoms. You need someone who is more responsive to the bigger problem of how your feeling now.
It’s a hard choice between treating the withdrawal symptoms or the asthma. I think you’re right to do what you have to for your breathing. Have you asked over at http://www.paxilprogress.org ? There are more people there who have gone through other problems like asthma while withdrawaling. They may be able to give you better advice about which drugs interact more or less with the two.
I don’t take offense at all, withdrawal is very traumatic. It’s very hard to find something that helps. Please reach out to someone who can help you in person. I’ll be here definitely. I think it helps to have someone you can talk to face to face, though. Please be strong.
March 9, 2013 at 10:23 pm
Dear Npanth, thank you for always being here for everybody with the words of consolation and compassion. I’ve navigated paxilprogress site trying to find anything or anybody with similar asthma-problem – couldn’t find any (I am not registered there to be able to search, every simple thing now takes an extra effort) but reading the stories again aggravate my symptoms. May be you can teach me how to avoid that part and find what you need straight to the point. Last 4 days are so horrible that I gave in and called a psychiatrist. I know she’ll be talking me into taking AD, reiterating again and again that it’s nothing else as a new bout of depression and I won’t get out without drugs. Unfortunately, due to my absolutely intolerable condition I more and more frequently have an urge to find at least some relief, can’t go to the ER – already have gone this path and hospitalization, my PCP says out loud that he is helpless in this situation, so the only place to go is to see a psychiatrist. I know it’s a mirage and a slippery slope to step on but I can’t bear it any longer. I am scared to go there and no less scared not to. Depression seems to settle down without any lifting and is so deep – please, advise me what to do. I’ve exhausted all my patience. I have nobody to seek an advise except here. How can you reassure me that it will ever end? Thank you.
March 10, 2013 at 9:18 pm
Jane. I have a friend who quit cold turkey from several psych meds including Paxil, Lithium, some antipsychotics, etc. His doctor just drugged him into oblivion, and he decided that he wanted to get free. He went through a prolonged and severe withdrawal. He was suicidal and desperate for a long time. He tried to do it 6 times in 4 years. He survived and recovered. Today, he runs a charity that helps free child soldiers in Africa. He isn’t bound to depression anymore. He found a satisfying purpose for himself. Please hang on. You still have important things to do, if even just for yourself.
If you need to start on a med, that’s ok. It’s better to face a long, slow taper than it is to fight symptoms that bad. It’s not a failure, just a delay in getting to yourself. It’s very hard to tell the difference between an existing condition and drug induced depression. They both feel the same, they’re just caused by different things. I thought that my withdrawal depression was an internal thing until it started fading as my taper got slower and my dose got lower. Even if you have some existing condition, withdrawal is making it much worse. There is a drug withdrawal element to what you’re feeling. I really hope you feel better soon. You’re in my thoughts.
March 10, 2013 at 9:40 pm
Npanth, thank you. I’ve never had such a tough struggle as whether to go to psychiatrist or continue to suffer tremendously on my own. My apnt is tomorrow, I still can cancel it. You are talking about going back to drugs and then to prolonged slow taper but, according to multiple people stories, I’ve long concluded that it’s not really possible after I have been off for so long (almost a year). May be, I don’t understand something but wouldn’t the response to the drugs presumably be totally different and possibly dangerous since the brain’s changed itself during withdrawal. I am so scared to try any psychiatric drugs. Even when I tried a couple of times the most innocent of them in small dosages (like Ativan or Neurontin for anxiety or sleeping pills) produced a bad reaction, exacerbated depression. I feel absolutely trapped – don’t trust a psychiatrist a bit in advance and don’t find any strength at all to continue fighting. You know many people who got out of it, do you know anybody who didn’t?
March 10, 2013 at 9:50 pm
One more question: with those people you know who’d suffered the most severe and protracted withdrawal – how long the worst period lasted, may be, after a certain time it’d become easier and more tolerable. I am just in a such a despair. I was prescribed 3 medications for asthma, told the doctor about my mental condition, didn’t check all of them (in terms of side effects) right away, was taking them for 10 days already and just today read the leaflet and couldn’t believe my eyes – the worst possible side effects – behavior and mood, including depression, anxiety, suicidal thoughts and many others – such a neglect on the doctor’s part.
March 11, 2013 at 5:38 am
Jane, a year is a long time between getting off an SSRI and reinstating. I’m just trying to think of the different alternatives. It would probably take a long time to get stable if you started up an SSRI again, It may be better than suffering with these symptoms, though.
The people I’ve met on websites and in person have recovered. For some, it has taken a long time. Their recoveries have varied, but reaching a new equilibrium is the norm. It’s hard to gauge recovery in a community like this. Most of the people who recover usually stop posting, so it’s hard see how they’re doing. They just give a post or two saying that they feel better. The assumption is that they would come back if they started feeling symptoms again.
How long it takes for symptoms to go away seems to vary from person to person. For some people, it’s just a few weeks. For others, it can be protracted. The worst of my symptoms lasted about a year. I reinstated after two months off the drug, so I got into a slow taper after a relatively short time. It seems reasonable to think that you’re having some side effects from one or more of your new asthma medicines. Even if the percentage of people who experience those symptoms is small, you’re in a vulnerable state from SSRI withdrawal. That increases the chance that they would cause you problems. I’ve found that I’m much more sensitive to changes in diet, etc, even now in a stable time in my withdrawal. Even the smallest thing, like eating bagels for the first time in a long time, can set off all kinds of symptoms.
March 11, 2013 at 10:26 pm
Thank you, npanth. I stopped one of the most offensive anti-asthmatic medications (according to the description of possible side effects) but still my condition has reached it’s worst point and today is no better than yesterday. The other two inhalers are very potent too and therefore could be a culprit but I have no choice. Your reflections about the presumable length of the most difficult period of withdrawal (about 1 year) don’t add any optimism for me – it’s been a year and I am a total wreck no without breaks and windows, the intensity of the waves (or I don’t know what) is so dramatic and traumatic that there are no words to describe. As for reinstatement (out of total despair I’d try anything now), I don’t mean SSRI, there are other AD on the market, some are not so notorious for subsequent withdrawal. What do you know about Remeron (tetracyclic AD). Looks relatively innocent in terms of side effects. I am skeptical that it could help my so deep and beyond any measure depression but a drowning person would grab a straw to rescue himself. I was thinking that if it affects me in a undesirable way I’d just stop right away. Do you think it could hurt?
March 12, 2013 at 6:04 pm
Jane, It can be hard to start up a new AD. They have slightly different effects. Sometimes, you can still have withdrawal from one while adding the startup effects of another. They do overlap in many areas, so you may lose some symptoms and gain others. I hope that stopping the one asthma med will help with your symptoms. I’m not totally sure how asthma meds are processed by the body, but it may take a little while to see the effects of stopping that med. I think it may be worth exploring it. If your symptoms don’t change or improve, you should be able to stop taking it without serious extra problems. SSRI usually need about a month to get going. I think that would be the point where you would have to make a decision about whether to stop or keep taking it.
March 12, 2013 at 7:03 pm
Npanth, I am trapped here. First of all, I did stop one of asthma medications with the worst side effects listed. So far I don’t feel any better with depression but my breathing already got worse. Secondly, I am thinking about starting myself not on SSRI, but on Remeron which is in a different category of ADs and not marked as the drug hard to get off of. My condition is absolutely unbearable and worsening. I am stuck in this situation where there is no solution and I have to choose from less of two evils. Sometimes I fell that I am loosing my sanity (as Emma said). Frequently it gets so bad that I am on a verge of rushing to the ER, a still intact and remaining part of my consciousness prevents me from doing that at the last moment since I’ve already been through that (while in a better shape) and I couldn’t take it anymore – going through the process of hospitalization to a psychiatric unit and staying there without proper help.
I feel so frail, so skinny, so inconceivably depressed, not able to make a right decision and have nobody to make it for me. Failed to find a doctor I could trust. Psychologist wants me to work hard myself, I am not in the condition to do so, she doesn’t seem to care. It’s been a year of total suffering and getting worse. What to do? Thank you.
March 13, 2013 at 5:56 am
Jane, It appears that Remoran affects similar receptors as SSRI. It also affects some receptors and enzymes that SSRI don’t. There is one case study that says it can be used to treat Serotonin Syndrome. It could be worth a try. It’s usually not best to start on a new antidepressant to treat withdrawal from another. Try talking to your doctor about the specific effects of Remoran versus the other drugs you’ve taken. The folks at http://www.paxilprogress.org would know about specific interactions better than I do. I just took Paxil, so my perspective is a little more limited. It’s worth trying something when you feel like this, though. You can worry about withdrawaling from the new antidepressant in the future when you’re more stable.
March 6, 2013 at 2:41 pm
After much difficult debate with myself, I decided to go back on the Zoloft. My psych has suggested I see how 25 mg will do. I have a feeling that will not be enough but will try it for 4 or 5 days and assess where I’m at. If I’m still having major dizziness I’ll see how 50 mg works. I also spoke to the doc about his willingness to prescribe the liquid Zoloft when I need to fine-tune the weaning and he seemed cool with it. I still think he views me as some sort of freak for actually experiencing w/d issues, but I really don’t care. I just am going to fight this stuff so that ultimately I can get back off it, but if it needs to happen over several years then so be it. Well, goodbye “real” me and hello zombie me 🙂 Thank ALL of you for your words of support and encouragement!! I’ll definately be staying part of this community.
March 6, 2013 at 7:29 pm
4 days may not be a long enough time to evaluate how your reinstatement is going. It usually takes a month or two to see if you’ve had a successful reinstatement. I know the feeling of having your doctor look at you as a nut. I had to become medically non compliant with my doctor’s advice to start weaning off Paxil properly. He gives me the same advice every time I see him, no matter how disastrous the results are. It’s a strange place to be in where following my own mind in withdrawal has produced better results than my doctor’s advice. A serious disconnect. I would think that I’m an anomaly if I hadn’t talked to so many people who followed the same path. Person after person has had to ignore or modify their doctor’s advice that it puts us in a dangerous position. On the one hand, you don’t want to go against a doctor’s advice, but on the other hand, that advice RE: SSRI withdrawal seems to be wrong. A tight spot, all right. Good luck with your reinstatement. Having realistic expectations and determination will help you get through it. Hand in there.
March 6, 2013 at 10:19 pm
Hi everybody, I am still in a very bad shape, no progress so far, I don’t see a psychiatrist but when my waves are completely unbearable I always struggle in panic about whether or not go to see one. I started with a psychologist but she really wants me to invest a lot of energy doing many different exercises – she said: I should roll up my sleeves and word hard – but I don’t have any energy, just hardly surviving. She doesn’t understand that. Again, when I bump into non-understanding, given how vulnerable and sensitive I am, I get frustrated right away and lose my intention to continue with this particular specialist. I think I already asked you how you deal with psychiatrists if they deny the very existence of withdrawal? What’s the point of seeing them? You just confirmed that, npanth, that you always have a “discrepancy” with your doctor? Many times I tried to explain them about the nature of withdrawal with printouts and other means of proof – they don’t listen. So, my question again is – what benefit, if any, you get from seeing a psychiatrist, why do you feel it’s necessary? If you need some prescriptions you could get them from a PCP. What else?
March 7, 2013 at 12:12 am
Jane, I am SO very sorry for the way you’re feeling. It is really awful. I am now closing day 10 of being Paxil free. Last week was absolutely TERRIBLE, I felt like I could cry every minute of every day, and went through some very dark thoughts. I have felt a lot more stable the last few days. So I will tell you my opinion, keep with the process because it does get better. I’m living proof. When your in it try these things: As hard as it is it is so important to get a good cardio vascular work out. I know that sounds absurd, but that will give you endorphins that work to counteract the withdrawal. Next, don’t be ashamed to tell a few close people to you, that you can depend on. A support system is so important. DON’T ISOLATE YOURSELF!! That is so key. It is so easy when you’re in a dark place to isolate, this is a no no. Call a loved one, get together for tea. As hard as it is, use the microscopic amount of energy you do have to surround yourself with people that care about you. Lastly, realize that you aren’t crazy, what you’re going though is real not to be dismissed or belittled by anyone. Also realize that this darkness IS NOT YOU!!! It’s the withdrawal, terrible awful withdrawal.
I am not a psychiatrist or an expert but this is my personal advise to you as someone who knows what you’re going through. Perhaps you should see another Psychiatrist also, sounds like you got a rotten tomato.
Meantime, I still suffer terrible headaches and brain zaps. Last night I got my first good nights sleep since I started my taper. Who knows what tomorrow will hold but but I am hopeful. I hope you have hope too.
Again a HUGE THANK YOU to NPATH for this thread and time.
March 7, 2013 at 3:29 pm
Hi Jane I feel your pain, I am now 11 months 7 days off and feeling sooooooo bad, things got so bad today that 8 weeks into my new very high profile job, I had to tell my boss the owner of the company what I am going through, which we all know to most people sounds ridiculous, i literally felt so bad that I thought I was going to have to get my husband to come and ger me, well the most surprising thing happened, he was amazing, so compassionate to my struggle, proud of me for my fight, and concerned for my well being, he has also vowed to stick by me and help get me through this and he said it has nit effected my job at all and that I have done great work already, it was so humbleing to have him believe me and be so kind!!! As you know I dont see a pshychatrist as there is nothing they can do for me, the only time i would need to see one is if i decide to go back on something and that is a no go for me. I cant beleive i still dont feel any better and when i think back i was much better at 2 moinths off tha i am now, so keep going Jane we will all get there, people that i think dont even belive in it think i will get better, we will do it, I know it is unbearable, I fully get that too, I thought i wouldnt get through today, I take it hour by hour, that is all i can do. Lainey you are very lucky that you may get through with very little time spent in withdrarawl, be on your guard though that anything can happen, I will keep my fingers crossed for you that this is it for you, your encouragement and advice is kind, believe me though everything you suggested gets much harder the further along you are and the worse the suffering, you are one of the lucky ones x
March 7, 2013 at 8:04 pm
Thank you, Lainey and Emma for your kind words and support. Lainey, your advices are well taken, they are good in general but, unfortunately, do not apply to me. My condition is so excruciating that I can’t exercise because fatigue prevents me from doing that, also, in terms of meeting with people close to you – honestly, my only option is isolation, it’s been too long and people are not able to understand, they instinctively try to avoid such a grief and I don’t blame them. Besides, I feel so awful, fragile and depressed – I can’t maintain a trivial conversation, it’d be a huge and meaningless effort. I used to be a emphatic and compassionate person but now every connection brings about only emotional pain – everything in my mind is now divided into “before” and “after”, and whatever reminds me about “before” is unbearably painful. Some people describe that they were emotionally numb on the drug, not the case with me – I was myself while on the drug, now I lost myself completely, I don’t care about anything and anybody (just empty, no energy, no emotions except doom and gloom). Everything is stressful for me, a little bump on the road is a whole mountain. Emma, I don’t see a glimpse of hope, I don’t have any windows, I am totally exhausted, suffering is so cruel that there are no words to describe it. Probably my case is extreme, I feel like I am dying every day, I really want to die. I can’t see that’s it’s finite because I am getting worse and worse. I am sorry for the post, I guess I am looking for reassuring words and at the same time it’s very hard to believe in it.
March 7, 2013 at 6:21 pm
I found a psych doctor that was accepting of withdrawal. I always felt in the back of my mind that she might be coddling me to get at some “deeper” issue, but she never said anything in that direction. I don’t talk to her anymore, not because I was fed up, but I’ve reached a point where I feel confident in my own methods for dealing with withdrawal.
I think a bad psych doctor is actually an impediment to SSRI withdrawal recovery. That voice in your head saying that you’d be fine if you just started taking the drug again is loud enough without an authority figure saying it, too.
March 7, 2013 at 6:37 pm
Thanks, Lainey. That’s good advice, too. I didn’t have a solid support system for a long time, just a few close friends and some internet communities. That was enough, though. Any lifeline can help.
March 8, 2013 at 5:38 am
Hi Jane, I really want to reach out and help you, i totally understand how you feel i really do, I cant socialise, i was supposed to be going shopping with my husband today and i just cant, do you work? do you have kids?? I also understand feeling dead and wanting to die, i can spend one minute being petrified of dieing and 2 minutes later wanting to die ti have some relief. It is awful but if you are still alive and here you are still fighting. As much as I am against anti depressants n0w, well at least for long term use, i would question why you have stopped them if you felt so normal on them, i stopped taking them because i thought they just werent helping me, and the problem i had on anti depressants which was horrible head feeling has now gone and hasnt come back, although other things are much worse, i never had depression until i started taking anti depressants, i had blips like all young people do but nothing like what i had on the drugs and i have now. But if the drugs had given me contentment and made me feel normail i probabley would never have stopped them, if they made you feel normal why did you stop them and again if they make you feel normal why dont you do a really really really slow taper, i would soooo do that if it made me feel ok , what were you on and how long have you been off??? x
March 8, 2013 at 4:07 pm
Emma, these are all good questions. I had been on Cymbalta for 6.5 years. Why I decided to stop? Because I didn’t feel that it’s right to be on antidepressant drug for so long, I thought it was affected my memory and I waited for the moment when life would become less stressful to do that. The most important thing is I as many-many people that are now facing the horrible effects of withdrawal knew nothing about that. Nobody ever mentioned it to me, otherwise I wouldn’t have stopped the medication (poison) ever. I did go off slowly. It took me 8 ms but not in the right way – I skipped the days, so the dosage was very inconsistent and probably’d harmed me significantly. I had no clue at that time. Only when I was completely off (that happened at the end of March last year – looks like at the same time as with you) I came across a small note about withdrawal on the internet, only then I realized that the symptoms going on were not attributed to Chronic Fatigue Syndrome which I’ve had for years but related to getting off the drug, and then I started to search “AD withdrawal”. I should have reinstated then but I still didn’t realize, that it wouldn’t go away in a couple of months, and I felt a mysterious horror thinking about putting this substance again in my body, I couldn’t even pronounce the name of the drug. I am paying such a high price for my carelessness. From time to time I get so suicidal that I am scared of myself. Looks like there is nobody in the whole world to help me. The symptoms are so intense and getting worse – I really can’t tolerate it any longer. There is something going on in my head that makes me absolutely restless, deprives of any normal human senses, no appetite, no nothing. I think I am going the opposite way. Thank you, Emma, for your support
March 9, 2013 at 1:41 am
Jane I honestly don’t think I am far off where u are, I woke up at 3 am this morning completely pankcing, my first thoughts were am I going to kill myself i feel that bad, and then do I need to wake my family up and get them to take me to hospital, it was awful, I have calmed down a bit, I am at the end of the teather, I have survived the last 7 months on 3. To 4 hours sleep a night and I belive that is making it even worse but I can’t sleep. I said to my husband in the week that I was scared to be alone as I was scared what I might do to myself, I don’t want to kill myself but the people that do must have had a breaking point where they just decided to do it and I get scared I will get there. As I said if I thought it would help I would take the drug’s, I know I have come so far almost a year off but as with you I am absolutely definitely worse than I was, and I am now thinking I am the worst I have ever been, although it still felt bad on drugs at least i know could sleep. I can’t see anyway to keep going. I am scared of absolutely everything, I can’t belive I was left to rot on these drugs, I am so scared I am going insane I think I need to be sectioned and I am serious, i am scared of what’s going to happen to me, the only difference i can see with us is I probably once a day have afew hours of feeling bareable. Let’s pray we get well and soon x
March 7, 2013 at 10:35 am
npanth, I was only using 4 or 5 days as a rough guide my doc gave me for seeing if the 25 mg of Zoloft is enough to get rid of my worst w/d symptoms (dizziness and zaps). Once I reach whatever level is enough to get rid of that (hopefully I will) then I plan to stay on that for at least a month or two until I start to slowly taper off. Right now, as of taking my third dose of Zoloft since I reinstanted, I can say the worst of the brain zaps are gone but I still feel pretty dizzy/spacey. I *think* I will need to go higher to get rid of the dizziness to the point where it feels manageable, but I’ll give it a couple more days before bumping up. Based on the formula for where I should be at had I tapered all along, I figure I should be around the 75 mg/day mark assuming I went with the 100 mg/day base. Since I fluctuated a bit between 100 and 200, I really have no idea what the mark would be.
I do feel the mental “veil” descending back again – it sucks knowing I’m losing myself once again. What was that movie with DeNiro and Robin Williams – Awakenings? It’s like I had a month or so of the old me and now that person is slipping away.
March 7, 2013 at 6:34 pm
Isn’t that a terrible feeling? You can FEEL your mind slipping away the second time. Somehow, I never noticed that the first time I started taking Paxil. Daniel Keyes’ short story “Flowers for Algernon” kept coming to mind whenever I thought about it. It felt like the spark, whatever genius is mine, was being leached out of my brain by a detergent. Awakenings is another good example of the effect. It’s like putting yourself back to sleep. Now that I’m down to 5mg/day, it is slowly creeping back in. I have flashes of my old self which are becoming more regular. I know I’ll get back to where I was before, and without the symptoms this time.
I’m glad the bigger symptoms are responding to your reinstatement. That’s actually a very strong indication that your symptoms are drug related, and not part of another condition. Like any other addictive drug, getting your fix makes the pain go away. The dizziness may fade over the next couple days. It happens unevenly. You’re dizzy for a while, then you’re not for a while. It’s hard to track the symptoms over the course of several days/weeks. Hang in there. One of the mistakes I made in my reinstatement was starting at too low a dose. It extended the stabilization period, I think. I don’t mean to say that you shouldn’t try a higher dose if your symptoms persist, only that it may take some time for reinstatement to fully settle in. Let your symptom load determine what dose you take. Now that you know that the fast taper isn’t a good strategy, you can taper properly from any dose. I hope the dizziness fades away soon. I can’t say that was my worst symptom, zaps and crushing depression/anxiety take that prize. Still, wobbling my way through life with everything tilted and swaying was no fun.
March 12, 2013 at 8:54 am
I can’t do this! I reinstated with 50mg Zoloft for a week and am almost totally disfunctional at work. I am sedated out of my mind. Can’t finish a sentence or think clearly. Surprised I’m not slurring words yet. All I want to do is go to sleep. I can’t do my work. My dizziness is still there but no emotion. I’m just flat-lined. I DON’T KNOW WHAT TO DO!! I can’t be like this. As much as I don’t want the w/d symptoms – brain zaps, dizziness, mode instability, this is even worse. I’m considering trying to switch over to *some* amount of Prozac again so that I can w/d off that better than zoloft just in case I can’t exist with the way things are back on this cr*p. Since the “exit strategy” off of Prozac is not as bad. I just don’t have a doc who I can seek out advice that I feel knows anything about this. I’d cry if I could but not while on this sh*t.
March 12, 2013 at 6:33 pm
You could try lowering your dose a bit. You might be at a dose that is a little higher than needed to alleviate your other symptoms. I had a similar problem when I reinstated. My cognition started to deteriorate almost immediately. It’s been getting better as my dose goes down. I’m better able to concentrate, and more importantly, force my attention back to a subject. I would slip into reverie very easily while I was taking Paxil. I think it’s one of the primary effects of the drug, because many people report the same thing. Apparently, the amount of cognitive disruption is directly related to dose, which makes sense. I never noticed it before when I was taking Paxil. It was immediately obvious to me when I reinstated, though. It’s that garden of eden effect. I’m not sure how you can completely avoid it while reinstating. The only way to adjust the drug effects is to adjust your dose. Changing to another drug will have similar effects on your mind since the drugs are very similar chemically. You’ve walked through the door, so to speak. You’ve exposed the effects of the drug in your own mind. There’s no way to unlearn what you know about them now. That’s why I usually describe reinstatement as a second chance to taper, not a long term solution to withdrawal symptoms.
Some of those cognitive problems would be related to startup effects from your reinstatement, though. You may find that you’re better able to function a week or so after reinstating. Still, a full reinstatement, from which you can start tapering, may take a couple months to reach. Hang in there. I know it makes working very, very hard when it’s hard to think.
March 5, 2013 at 8:25 pm
Hi fellow SSRI Withdrawal-ers. I am now on day 9 of being Paxil free. I feel that my withdrawal compromised my immune system because last weekend, I came down with a nasty head cold. I rarely get sick, but I think my body could only take so much and it shut down. I have felt like a hot mess. Not only do I have the brain zaps still, but I have sinus headaches on top of the withdrawal headache. UGH!!! Yesterday I took off work and slept most of the day. However, the good news is that my emotions have stabled out a bit. I no longer feel the need to cry every day, but I still feel on edge. And I hope by the time I kick this headcold, the brain zaps and headaches will have subsided too. However, I am really nervous because I am getting close to that time of the month, and wonder what kind of PMS will be in store for me…. But I am optimistic that there is a light of the end of the tunnel, I can now see it! By the way, thank you so much to everyone, and NPATH for this blog. It is so helpful!!!
March 6, 2013 at 6:27 am
Thanks, Lainey. There is a withdrawal symptoms that folks call the “Paxil Flu”. It feels just like the flu, but it’s caused by withdrawal rather than a bug. Sometimes, it’s hard to tell the difference between drug related “flu” and the regular kind. Hopefully, it’s the regular kind because that goes away faster. It’s good that you can recognize times when your emotions stabilize. In a weird way, it’s almost as hard to recognize progress as it is to deal with the stressful times. I hope it keeps getting better for you.
March 6, 2013 at 8:44 am
when i was 2 months off of ssris I had flu like symptoms literally everyother day, god I would swap that for the psychological problems i have now!! and at the time I thought that was bad!! I went to the doctor and he did not even twitch when I said I was of ssris, he said I had probabley had a bad cold that never completley went. SO obvious now that it was withdrarawl, one of the main symptoms. Man this is cruel. Lainey I am sure you will get through this and be fine!!
I had not too bad a day on Monday and yesterday was horrible, and my sleep is just so bad at the moment, has been going on for weeks, I remember 6 months ago saying I was so grateful that I could sleep and now here i am having max 4 hours a night and thta has been for the last 10 weeks. Npnanth do you think your sleep got better because you had drugs back in your body oor do you think it was time??? I would love to be able to sleep till 7 amand not wake up anxious, I am sure that would help eleviate 90% if the depression and anxiety. SO I have joined the gym and got a prgramme to follow and funnily enough the personal trainer who is helping me is a pharmisist and is very aware of ssri withdrarawl and insisted we can get me through this with exercise and time, so I did have proabaley and extra hour sleep last night, I am knackered today but am going to force myself to exercise again this evening. I cant wait for the day this is all over and the better me emerges!!!!! I ax
March 6, 2013 at 7:22 pm
My insomnia didn’t start to return to normalish sleep patterns until I had stabilized on my reinstatement. I think it was the smaller tapers that helped me get back to a more regular sleep pattern. My sleep is still a bit interrupted at times, but it’s not the 3-4 hours stolen from my symptoms that it used to be.
March 7, 2013 at 3:38 am
I took 20 mg of paxil for three and a half years, then 40 mg. for a year and then 30 mg for two years over 6 1/2 years total. I started a fast taper last fall and took the final dose maybe a month ago. I have had a number of the symptoms of withdrawal mentioned here. I have experienced most of the withdrawal symptoms mentioned by other here but don’t see much mention of digestive disturbances. From looking at other sites, stomach and gut problems, sometimes mimicking IBS (or BEING a new case of IBS) are pretty common. How long do they last? mine seem to come and go, occurring, it seems, more when I am experiencing a bout of brain zaps. Are we talking months or more here? It sounds from comments on this page that the emotional reactions can seem to clear up and one or the other come out of the blue weeks later. Wow. What did I get myself into?
March 7, 2013 at 6:51 pm
“What did I get myself into?” I asked that exact question 🙂 At first, I figured I could do this thing, no problem. It turned out to be much more involved than I first thought. Certainly more complicated than my doctor said… and still maintains. The symptoms vary from person to person, in both type and severity. Some people can actually stop taking SSRI cold turkey with no symptoms whatsoever. Doesn’t seem possible to me, but it happens. Apparently, that’s the case for the majority of people. It seems like withdrawal occurs on a spectrum, different for each patient. Some symptoms seem to be nearly universal. Head zaps, head aches, head pressure, anxiety, depression, these all seem to be very common.
I’ve had on and off gastrointestinal problems. They’re much milder now, for which I’m grateful. The zaps seem to be relatively short lived. It’s a symptom that comes up quickly after stopping the drug, but doesn’t last as long as the emotional symptoms. Some people experience zaps over the long term, but for most, it seems to fade after a few weeks. That’s not to say that it won’t be replaced by other symptoms. That’s the nature of withdrawal. One week, it’s zaps, the next it’s GI problems, then it’s on to depression, etc. That’s one of the really frustrating things about early withdrawal. You never know what’s coming next, or how long the current symptom du jour will last. The process does start to gain a certain measure of stability, though. Symptoms last for days instead of weeks, then hours instead of days. I had a bout of frustration Monday night. Instead of lasting a week or more like it did before, it faded away before I went to sleep. That’s the point when you start to think you’re beating it. It’s a great feeling. I hope you get there soon.
March 8, 2013 at 5:16 am
npanth you are so inspirational and i believe you keep a lot of people going, my waves tend to be for days and then my windows are for hours although i can recall one day 8 months agao when i had a whole day of a window, i think i have more windows than i think but because those windows arent complete normality i dont class them as windows, they are just more manageable days, is that classed as a window? and then do those windows get better?? I cant wait for recovery, I told my new boss all about what I call my condition yesterday and he has been totally amazing, i hope this helps the recovery process as i do feel i am getting worse. I have been crying loads today but actually dont feel as bad as the rest of the week x
March 8, 2013 at 6:43 am
My windows started out the same way. They weren’t really windows, so much as times when the symptoms weren’t as bad. It was very hard to recognize that I was improving at all in the beginning. The definition of a window is pretty vague. Windows and waves are terms that the withdrawal community uses, so they haven’t been codified or fully described. They mean different things to different people. To me, windows are times when the symptoms don’t keep me from going out the door, seeing people, doing things. It’s a fuzzy definition, but it’s the closest I’ve come.
That’s great that your boss is supportive. I’ve gotten to the point that I don’t really discuss it with people other than friends or family. I’ve found some people who are understanding, but most people seem to think that I have a communicable disease, as if they’re going to catch withdrawal from me. Talking about it has been an impediment in some interactions. I had a job interview last year. I nailed the whole thing. At the end of the interview, he asked what I had been doing for the past 8 months since I was laid off. I told him about withdrawal in very general terms. I glossed over most of it. I could see in his face that the very idea of withdrawal from a psych med freaked him out. I didn’t get the job, and got a stalker vibe when I called asking about it.
March 9, 2013 at 1:39 pm
so if you have read my post this morning i was in a very very bad way, a bit like where i was 8 weeks ago when i felt on the verge on insanity. It is horrible, I honestley thought this morning i might do myself some harm and was again worried that i was going insane. So all day i have started to think that I have to go back to the shrink and go on some drugs. Now 8 hours after i had those horrible feelings i have calmed down and althought i feel rubbish i am rational, so i have done some weighing up of my symptoms and i have come up with some reasons to make myself keep going. The symptoms i have now i never had before i started taking the drugs. so here it goes, the feeling of insanity i have had a few times, i have only had a few times in my life and that has been recently and this morning and then when i was on seroxat/paxil when i would increase the levels. so as my husband pointed out, if it happened while my brain was adjusting to higher levels, it would make sense that i would feel it again when my brain was adjusting to not having any in my brain. It makes me soo mad as when i was first put on anti depressants I never ever had head problems, only anxiety. SO the second thing I have thought about is my symptoms, some have gone, main one being brain fog/pain in head, feeling like i need to cry and not being able too, anger, flu like symptoms, bad skin, unfortunatley now i have depression, insomnia and heart palpitations, and brief and very few periods of feeling insane, i know i have said anxiety in the past but actually i have realised it is palpitations not anxiety, also i get scared and feel doom a lot, but that is it. So I have circled all the symptoms i have in a withdrarawl book and i have about 15 from insomnia to back ache, to depression, fear, doom, palpitations, agraphobia, and more, if i remember what i went to the doctor about when i was 21 and first put on drugs i went with 2 symptoms, anxiety and panic and that was it, and because of that waking in the night, but no depression or doom or scared, so you see all the symptoms i have cant be old things reoccuring because i never had them before the drugs so it cant be a relapse it can literally only be withdrarawl. which doesnt make it any better but at least it can keep me going and hopeful that it will go. I have even thought about getting my old medical records to make sure that i never went to the doctor complaining of depression,, as it was 15 years ago now i cant remember but I am positive that I remember the doctor asking me if i was depressed and i said no i was just having panic attacks and anxiety, which my dad has and has been treated for but he never had depression either. on the other hand i am scared that i may have forgotten information or even if i said no to depression the doctor may have written down that I was depressed, it could be a slippery slope to feeling worse, the first time i felt depression was when i upped my first dose of ssris. the other thing I want to do is see my shrink and tell him all theses things purely so he can give me some reassurance that i will get better, i know we all say it to each other and there are people out there who have got better but for some reson i just cant believe it until i get it guranteed by a shrink, my husband thinks there is no need to do that but for some reason i feel like by my shrink telling me to hang in there is the only thing that is going to keep me going as I am at rock bottom in fear of going insane or doing sommething stupid is reassurance from a professional. My Mum told me today that if I see the shrink and he suggest a small dose of medicaction ( i dont believe there is such a thing as a small doose) i should consider it, which then freaked me out too, I said no way, and i dont think my shrink would push me to take anything, i think he would sugeest it but would also agree with the withdrarawl. I am so scared of the thought of takeing something and i sooooo want to believe i will get better and beleive that this is all withdrarawl. My husband is great at reassuring me but when you feel like you are insane it has to come from a more reliable source, I am hanging in there by the skin of my teeth x
March 9, 2013 at 1:52 pm
Oh no Emma, I just want to say that I am SO VERY SORRY, for the way you’re feeling. There is nothing worse then feeling like you’re not in control of yourself. But you know what the fact like you just went through what you just went through and are now writing us about tells me something huge: As painful as it was, you made it through it!!! You are stronger than you give yourself credit. You should do something nice for yourself today, take a hot bath, read a book, go to a movie, do something that makes you feel good. Because you deserve it!!
Also, I suggest maybe going to a group therapy where the group suffers from anxiety and depression. Back when I was suffering from insanity I went to a group(led by a shrink of course), and it was so great to be around people who knew what the f*^k I was talking about, which made me no longer feel insane. You might want to try it.
Again so sorry for your rough day. Keep going!
March 9, 2013 at 3:00 pm
I’m sorry you had a bad day, Emma. I had similar days, they’re horrible. They followed the same kind of pattern for me, too. The mornings were the worst, then my symptoms slowly improved over the course of the day. They didn’t go away, but the evenings seemed to be easier than the mornings. That cycle lasted for a long time. It was only after I woke up a few times without really bad symptoms that I realized that the symptoms were getting better. Improvement happens ever so slowly. It’s very frustrating and frightening to feel like that. It seems to move so slowly.
I hope you get a break, we all deserve it. You know that the severe depression is coming from the drug. It feels like it’s an internal emotion because it’s coming from your own mind. Even if there is some existing depression, withdrawal makes it 10times worse. Doctors will treat the symptoms they see. Treating withdrawal depression as if it’s a chronic problem will lead to over prescribing meds in the long run. As you symptoms break up, you’ll still be on a full load of meds.
March 9, 2013 at 10:49 pm
Posted one comment, then read your new note about withdrawal depression. But what if the depression is real and genuine? Going through such a terrible withdrawal by itself could throw anybody into depression and given the underlying nature of that condition and what’s the cause of depression – the conclusion is obvious. My worst time of the day is evening. When it gets dark, I slip down to the very bottom. How could I believe that it’d ever ease up, not even dreaming about getting rid of it completely.
March 10, 2013 at 2:42 am
so as per normal i started to feel better in the vening last night, I wnet to sleep at 11pm and woke up at 3:30am, I guess i should be happy for 4 and a hal hours sleep at least that is something, but literally from 3:30 amd until 7am my heart has been racing out of my chest, i have tried deep breathing, getting up and running round the room, rocking, midfulness, exsepting the anxiety (in the morning its anxiety in the rest of the day it is palpitations) my head feels clear as crystal today (i hope that lasts) but my hear and anxiety is unbearable, so my question , as this has been going on for 8 monts, it started on June 10th the first day i woke up anxious, then in continued and i would wake up at 5am or 6am anxious so i was still get 7 to 8 hours sleep which mentally helped me feel better, bvut when we moved house the first week in January and I started my new job that i have to get up at 6 am for, for the last 9 weeks i have been waking at 3am and that is it, y husband says its always darkest before the dawn but we have said that so many times. ANyway as i said my question is has anyone tried herbal calmers, i think you can get things called calms, i feel i may have to try these, as nothing is working and my body is exhausted, one good night sleep would keep me going for another 2 months, so anyone calmers or herbal relaxants?? and im not talking about st johns wart, let me know x
March 10, 2013 at 5:59 pm
Hello gang, sorry I haven’t been around lately, I had a complete meltdown last weekend that brought me to my knees.
I flipped out over a little argument with my wife, that just escalated to point where I ran out of the house telling my we were all through and driving 8 hrs. Straight from CT to North Carolina not giving any thought as to what I was going to do when I got there.
I left my phone at home and only had my debit card for gas. I stayed at a motel in Franklin NC and in the morning drove back.
When I got home I was met by my whole family and we had kind of an intervention. I told my 2 sons that I am going through withdrawal and that it’s worse than trying to get off on opiates ,I broke down and cried my head off and tried my best to explain to everyone what was going through my head, by the time I was done everybody was crying.
I really, really hate what these drugs have done to me and now my family, I was so enraged with anger that it completely consumed me and turned me into a monster that I hope never rears its ugly head ever again.
My family now has a better understanding of what I’ve been going through for the last 20 yrs. of my life and why I have been introverted for the last 3, I’m really trying to hang in there but sometimes these terrible thoughts and anxiety get the better of me and I just want to end it all, then I think about what it would do to my family and fight it off.
I’m sorry to bring everybody down, I know how hard you people are working to achieve a withdrawal symptom free life, but for me it just seems like the impossible dream.
I will return when I feel better, in the meantime good luck to everybody and GOD speed.
Jay
March 10, 2013 at 7:10 pm
Jay
It’s been a while sinse I have cried. I just cried and am criing as I type this. This just flat out sucks ass.
I hope by getting this out into the open in some way helps you out! Hang in there!!
March 10, 2013 at 9:26 pm
Jay. I did a couple similar things in withdrawal. I didn’t make it out of the state, but I definitely ran away with my rage a couple times. Don’t feel bad that you felt this way. Many people have the same loss of self during withdrawal. It’s not a failing on your part, it’s a problem with the drug. I really felt like I was outside myself watching myself doing these things without any control over them. It was surreal and discouraging.
Having a frank discussion with your family should be a good thing. Hopefully, they can provide some support to you. It’s good that they want to understand what it’s like. Let them know that this is not your regular personality and not your regular behavior. It will get better in time. I know I keep saying that, and it loses some of its strength each time I do, but it is true. Hang in there. I hope you feel better soon and having family around helps. Don’t feel too bad if you slip and argue with them. Try not to let it happen, and try to make it better afterwards, but don’t feel that you’re doing it without any outside influence. It’s very hard to keep a lid on it all the time when withdrawal is pushing on you so hard.
March 11, 2013 at 11:43 pm
This explains why I’m extremely pissed off and depressed for no reason.
March 12, 2013 at 12:22 pm
so I decided against herbal calmers, cant face putting anything else in my bidy, I have continued exerciseing and will go to the gym in a bit. Jay I am so sorry to hear how you have been but the outcome of the intervention was good!! and dano I hope the cry helped, Jane I hope you have had some respite. lots has happened for me since i wrote 4 days ago, after having what felt like an insan episode on early saturday morning I have been freaking out thinking i was loosing my mind, and since then the anxiety got even more extreme and the palpitations. So Sunday wasnt as bad head wise but extremem palpitations, Monday was a tiny bit better sleep and clear head during the day, and today awful sleep about 3 hours but during the day not bad head wise a bit of depression but for basically a day and a half other than in the morning the anxiety has been less. I had an ECG on Monday to make sure there wasnt anything going on with my heart and since I had that I havent hardly had the anxiety, anyway there seemed to be no problems although I am seeing for sure on friday with the doctor, not at any point have i thought it is anything else than anxiety but I got it checked out on a friends recomendatio. Anyway today I called my shrink and asked for a phone consultation to see i to seek sme reassurance and basically get the professional opinion to keep going un drgugged. Bearing in mind i was in a bit of a window when i poke to him, it probabley would have been diffrent if i was in a bad wave. I did explain to him I was feeling quite alrite at the the time. ANyway he said , even after i explained my awful sleeping and feeling of insanity that I was getting through it and to keep going, my brain is still adjusting to the changes of being off drgs. He just kept saying i will get better, proabale because i had left a message with his secretary basically saying i was calling for some reassurance, but either way it was great to have a psychiatric professional tell me to keep going, he told me to keep eating 2 tablespoons of pumpkin seeds a day and also that the fact that i am loosing weight, my metabolism will be effecting it and if when i get to the weight i want to be and i still feel noo better to come and see him, but he didnt encourage me to stop loosing weight, and although i am trying to continue loosing weight if i really though mainataing my weight would cure me i w ould put it on hold for a while, but he did not suggest that. SO thats where i am at, I am hoping tonight i will sleep better, i am sure everything will fall into place when the sleep does, as i have been working from home i have managed to have a couple of 15 minute naps. I pray each night for slepp amd pray each day for recovery and im not religious, i wish i was i thhink it could help x
March 12, 2013 at 6:17 pm
I’m glad you’ve gotten better over the last couple days. I know it’s not a huge improvement, but it is progress. I remember feeling very much like you do now. It was frustrating that I didn’t know what I’d be like each day. There was no predictability about my emotions. I still get that from time to time, but for the most part I’m pretty stable. I’m sure you’ll get there.
I wouldn’t worry too much about your weight at this point. I lost a lot of weight in withdrawal, too. Most of it has stayed off for the past year, too. Weight gain is one of the biggest symptoms of SSRI use, so it’s natural that a lot of that weight will come off as you stop taking the drug. It’s hard to turn that self critical, weight tracking part of your brain off, though. I had a really weird experience with weight loss during the first part of withdrawal. I was actually furious every time I had to hike up my pants, or they slipped down around my ankles when I stood up. Hehe, most people would be ecstatic at losing weight with so little effort. It’s just one of those unique quirks of withdrawal that it made me mad.
March 12, 2013 at 12:28 pm
awful spelling because i can see what im typing! x
March 13, 2013 at 4:00 pm
so today bad night sleep again 3 hours and then out of no where had a massive panic attack at work, i thought i was going to collapse and just lie on the floor and ask someone to get me home, i dont know how i got through the day, and am still feeling quite sane tonight which is weird, has anyone else had panic attacks that almost floor you and had them go after a while, I guess it is another stage but was horrible, strange how within 2 hours i was back to normal, please tell me i wont start having panice attacks every day! ! i cant take anymore symptoms, I would swap the lot for physicalsymptoms x
March 13, 2013 at 5:10 pm
I’ve had some symptoms like that. It seems like brevity is a sign that things are improving. The severity of symptoms doesn’t change at first, but the duration does. That’s how my symptoms progressed. I started out with constant symptoms, then windows started to appear. Eventually, the waves started to become shorter. Now, waves only last a few hours, and they’re not as severe as they used to be. Sometimes, a wave will feel like it’s starting up, but never actually reaches the point where I feel emotional symptoms. Hopefully, the waves will get shorter for you, too.
March 14, 2013 at 3:21 am
After I wrote that last night npanth again out of no where I was sitting on the edge of a panic attack, I went to sleep exhausted and woke up after an hour freaking out, feeling like I was on the edge of dieing or loosing it, so strange, I managed to sleep for another two hours, so this morning I decided to just let it take me if I’m going to have a panic or I feel bad, that I just have to let it take its course because worrying about having a panic is making it worse, my motto today is to keep going and to think of withdrawal as an open wound that has to get all the bad puss out before it can heal and the symptoms and now panic are the bad puss, if I look back on my journals, for ages after stopping the drugs I said that I didn’t have panic, and now here it is, npanth did you have panic and have it go away? X
March 14, 2013 at 6:02 am
Yes, I’ve had a lot of variations in symptoms and intensity. It has been getting better, though. The intensity has been going down. At first, it was very overwhelming, like you’re experiencing now. The slower and smaller my tapers are, the lighter and shorter my symptoms become. The worst symptoms for me were when I was tapering on my doctor’s schedule. Once I started doing the 10% reduction method, the symptoms have been getting easier to deal with instead of harder.
I know it doesn’t sound like it right now, but the variation in symptoms is actually a sign of improvement. The first phase of improvement is when the symptoms start to come and go. It’s unpredictable at first, but eventually, the intensity should start to fluctuate, too. That variation will eventually become diminishing symptoms.
March 14, 2013 at 8:38 am
Thank you npanth, for writing this.
I was on Paxil (20mg) for three years and have been transitioning off Paxil to Cipralex. I knew there would be a hard withdrawal during this process, especially while simultaneously starting on a new SSRI, but I wasn’t prepared for just how lousy it was. I was nailed, almost immediately, with bad anxiety, rage, irritability and some depression. I’m still functional and am able to do my job and not lose all my friends, lol, but it’s been difficult and I feel like I am on the cusp of losing my mind. I’ve been full of worries such as.. “is this how i’m going to be forever?” “is Cipralex ineffective?” “did taking Paxil make me worse?” “was changing SSRI’s a bad decision?” The WORST part is it has been so hard to find good information about SSRI withdrawal, and I have found my doctor to be fairly useless and apathetic to anything I am going through. A Google search of ‘Paxil withdrawal’ reveals an unbalanced mix of angry, jaded stories and anecdotes about the evils of SSRI’s, lawsuits against Glaxosmithkline and conspiracies between pharmaceuticals and governement, none of which is helpful to me at this time.
I found your description of SSRI withdrawal, to be the best I have read so far. The feelings and phases you describe seem to be most consistent with what I have been going through. I am quite happy I have read this and will continue to seek out other informed and rational explanations/descriptions of what I am going through. Again, thank you for writing this.
Cestode.
March 14, 2013 at 5:55 pm
Thanks Cestode. I purposely waited until I was starting to feel better before I wrote anything public about Paxil withdrawal. I read the same angry stories while I was in fast withdrawal, and thought that anything I wrote while I was in that state would quickly devolve into another rant. I decided to start writing about it because there didn’t seem to be any middle ground on the issue. Withdrawal is either categorized by very angry people or dry, clinical descriptions. When the irrational rage gave way to intellectual anger, I thought I could write more coherently about it. I had a lot of trouble sustaining ideas during that fast taper, too.
I asked myself the same questions about the wisdom of tapering off Paxil. Is this the real me coming out? Am I really an irrational person that is only held in check by this drug? In my case, it turns out that Paxil was actually causing many of my symptoms and not really helping with my original problem (social anxiety) At 5mg/day, I feel better than I ever did at 40mg/day and I interact with people better than I ever have. It was a real revelation to me to see the changes in myself as my dose got lower. Yes, there was the acute, episodic withdrawal symptoms. Those are terrible. They have largely gone away the longer I do a slow taper, though. I kind of like the real me, certainly much more than I liked the Paxil me.
Switching SSRI can be problematic, sometimes. Even though they all affect similar processes in the brain, they do it in slightly different ways. You may be experiencing a two sided problem right now. You could still have withdrawal symptoms from Paxil, as well as having startup symptoms from Cipralex (Escitalopram). Most SSRI have some kind of startup period where you could have symptoms similar to withdrawal. It usually takes about 4-6 weeks for those symptoms to dissipate. Some people are particularly sensitive to SSRI, and those startup symptoms escalate instead of diminish. It’s very hard to tell the difference between startup symptoms of one drug and withdrawal symptoms of another because they are so similar. If your symptoms persist, you might consider stopping the Cipralex and reinstating on Paxil, then doing a slow taper off Paxil. I’m saying that getting off SSRI is a panacea, but it can be very hard to switch between two drugs in this class cold turkey. Check out http://www.paxilprogress.org or http://www.survivingantidepressants.org There are many people on both those sites who have gone through the same thing. I only have experience with Paxil. They may be able to tell you more specific things about the Paxil/Citpralex switch and the potential pitfalls. I hope you feel better soon.
March 14, 2013 at 8:25 pm
Just wanted to share something interesting. As of today I am now 17 days Paxil free. And actually my brain zaps, and headaches have been getting a little better every day. But I got my period for the first time free of Paxil today and have had TERRIBLE headaches accompanied by more frequent brain zaps. Also my cramps have been worse than usual. YUCK!!! Emotionally, I still feel like I’m in a cloud, but instead of black like it was the first week, it is more like a shade of gray.
Like NPATH said, I feel like I am getting to know the new me. It is a strange feeling but I feel like I’m wearing a new pair of glasses. It is a very profound realization that Paxil perhaps altered my personality a little bit all those years.
I am hoping to continue to improve.
I wish all of you peace, comfort, and wellness from these terrible withdrawals. Love, light, and good energy to all of you!!!
March 15, 2013 at 6:22 am
so good news I had about 6 hours broken sleep, bad news is i feel worse troday even though i have had sleep, i feel so shaky from the anxiety, i am exactley 11 and a half months off today so I am hoping that the change will come soon, I do feel in a slight way as horrible and unbearable as the feelings are, that they are ever so slightlkey more dilluted, but I could be imagining that because i still feel horrible and want some relief! I tried so much yesterday to tell myself to let it happen let the fear and anxiety happen, dont fight it and it will pass, now this worked quite well for me yesterday but this morning it is a real struggle, infact its not working, I have just heaved three times to try and make myself feel better as sometimes i feel so anxious or so low I just want to be sick, my shrink tells me it is a calming reflex. I have just been out for a walk and it has done nothing, I sit here feeling like i could loose it just go into a diffrent world, or then like i could collapse or that I am going to do something to myself, I feel so scared when I am by myself, like i need some one with me incase something happens, I am going to the doctors in a minute to get the results of my ECG but it is soooooo obvious that it is anxiety, I just have to get through it, I had 2 days this week with no anxiety and then it comes back, I am hoping anxiety and depression are the last symptoms I have to get through. I keep telling myself I am healing, and speaking to my husband yesterday we agreed that if break your leg you have have to go through the pain of it healing there is no magic pill to make it fix quicker. I wish there was for this but no such luck, I am going to try my hardest today to tell myself my symptoms are healing in action and that I just have to let them take over me, fighting them is even harder, I wish I could go into an induced coma until this is all over. Maybe the fact i had a tiny bit better sleep is a sign that things are moving along. I really feel today sad for the fact that I am almost 37, and i have been for the last 2 and a half years been going through this 1 and a half years tapering and swapping between drugs and then almost a year with noting, also I was in tolerance withdrarawl on and off for may years and then the awful times I have had in the last 10 years when I increased drug levels, the whole thing is just so unfair and normally i dont dwell on that but today I just feel like saying take me, anything has got to be better than this, I am sooooooo scared of never being well and having a normal life, and I have already lost years of the prime oof my life, and while all this is going on I am still not able to try for a baby, how could I feeling like this?…………….. I have just got back from the doctors and they have said that there is no heart problem and it is anxiety which i knew and the offered me beta blockers, I said no, and they said that they do not effect the brain at all, they are only straight to working on the heart but again you cant get pregnant on them and it is another thing that will mask the problem that will still be there once i stop taking them. I have really hit bottom again today it is truley awful, if i wasnt 11 and a half months through i would reinstate x
March 19, 2013 at 4:01 am
Hi Emma, I totally understand, I feel the exact same way alot of the time, I am 37 this year and the last year has been so bad coming off the first tablets, then going onto Lexapro and it not helping at all, I do look back and think as well that my prime years have been wasted on these drugs and feeling bad, I met my boyfriend 2 years ago so he has only ever seen me on the tablets and then withdrawing and I keep telling him this is not me, that I wished I met him earlier when I wasn’t on tablets and feeling better, sometimes I think he should just walk away and find someone that does not have these problems but I know he loves me and won’t. I just want to feel better, I feel so low sometimes and feel so different to how I was last year, I feel like a different person sometimes and feel like I am not living in reality, some days I look back on the day and it seems surreal. I just hope this nutrient therapy that I do will give me some relief, here is hoping to an end to this awful feeling for everyone x
March 19, 2013 at 4:26 am
Hi Sinead I have to remind myself daily that 50 t0 55 is middle age so in theory I am miles and miles away from my prime and that I havent lost those years I was still living just challeneged, the one thing I am holding onto is the fact that everyone I have read about who gets through this says you have an even better life than before as you can handle just about anything, and that I have to belive because nothing can be as bad as this. Your boyfriend will be overjoyed about the woman you will end up being, if its any consolation I read that women in their 30’s and 40’s have their whole life ahead of them and have only just started so thats us!! we are babies really and this wont last for ever.it just feels like it. I cant wait for the day when i can just be, be content and not scared it will surely happen x
March 15, 2013 at 12:57 pm
day just got worse and worse, been working from home and god love my boss he called me to see how i was feeling and when i told him awful he was so nice and said tomorrow is another day, have an amzing weekend, keep going, so kind! anyway after palpitaions in the doctors I have now had no more anxiety at all but my head feels manic, on the verge of going mad and i am worried that it is the brain fog back which I havent had for 3 months, I think it would finish me off if that came back permanantley, I am trying to tell myself that obvuiously old symptoms will pop up every now and then but i pray to god it is not back again, it makes me feel crazy, Im hungrey but I cant eat, I want my husband to come home but i dont want to speak to him when he gets here, this is crazy horrible, unfair, cruel and not deserved x
March 15, 2013 at 4:38 pm
I had irregular and fast heartbeats for a long time. It’s one of the side effects of SSRI. Any effect that the drug makes on the body or mind has to go through some turmoil to return to normal after we stop taking the drug. Sleepiness is another symptom of the drugs. I think that’s why it’s so hard to get good sleep in withdrawal. The body is going through a seesaw process trying to find a new equilibrium. Emotional symptoms recover in a similar way. That’s why mood fluctuations, even when they’re tough to deal with, are a sign that the body is trying to find a new equilibrium. That’s progress, even if it doesn’t feel like it.
Even if you have trouble managing younanxiety sometimes, it’s still good to keep trying. It doesn’t help with every episode, but eventually, you’ll get good enough at it to have a consistent effect on your symptoms. One of the best feelings in withdrawal is when you feel a wave coming and head it off at the pass… Keep it from ever settling in. It’s not so much a feeling of power, but rather of internal strength. You’ll get there. 🙂
March 17, 2013 at 9:42 pm
“Eventually” – when, when it’s impossible to life every single day, hour, minute? Eventually – could be years and there is no relief whatsoever. Intensity is tremendous, there is no distraction that could catch your attention for a moment. It’s getting only worse, not better.
March 17, 2013 at 9:39 pm
Emma, I am dying. I came down with a bad infection, high fever, cough and congestion, had to take antibiotics and withdrawal symptoms’ve become absolutely, beyond any imagination unbearable. Hey there – I can’t survive any longer! Please help! No more patience! I don’t believe that it will ever end or even get better, there is no a single sign of that.
March 18, 2013 at 5:54 am
Jane I hope you get some respite soon, I understand how absolutley awful it is, I I promise you, but it does get better you will have glimpses, even if only minutes of feeling ok, I think though if you feel soooooooo bad, and you sound desperate in your emails, that you should consider going back on the drugs, especially if you had a good life on them, its not being defeated it is just taking a diffrent route at this time in your life and you have all your life ahead of you even if you are not 21, so do what is best for you!!!! you clearly need some help, please get some, but remember no matter how bad you are feeling, you have still got through it, you are still here x
March 18, 2013 at 1:28 pm
Emma, thank you. That’s not so easy to go back; from everything I learned so far and what I’ve experienced, the brain structure’s totally changed since then and according to other people reports going back after so long time passed could be dangerous and have devastating effects. And I feel it myself – all reactions to the drugs have changed dramatically. A single dose of relatively innocent medications (especially, psychiatric one) like Ativan or Neurontin, or sleeping pill act in a opposite way and just exacerbate my depression so much. So if I try to go back, the effect could be so unpredictable. I am really lost here with no help. I gave up on psychiatrist – all they say is: it’s depression returned, though I feel that it’s withdrawal as bad as never has been, even brain zaps which I didn’t have at the beginning.
March 18, 2013 at 1:48 pm
hey jane try reading some of these stories if you cam, and everyone else who is reading go to http://igotbetter.org/stories
I have been reading some today and they have helped, proof that anything can happen is that after an awful day Sunday, today Monday has been an 80% improvement, anything can happen. And as for your brain not being able to take drugs now, I doubt that is the case I guess it probabley will take longer for them to work. I truley belive keep going you will get some respite soon but i was scared for you sounding so desperate. I told my husband I was going to stay away from all withdrarawl stuff this week, the only reason I came on was because i saw your reply on my phone. Try your hardest to hang in there, as i said before as horrendous as it is and i know what it is like, you have got through another day, as everyone says this will be the hardest thing you ever do, its the hardest thing i have ever done, harder than adjusting to taking the drugs. But please please if you feel soooooooo bad go and see someone x
March 18, 2013 at 1:57 pm
Thank you so much, Emma. I’ve suffered a major set back because of this bad infection that is still lingering, antibiotics that I had to take to prevent complications, now depression is so deep and unrelenting, I can’t find a space to stay. I can’t read success storied b/c they make me even more depressed – they usually tell that it takes years to stabilize and I can’t last for a day. Secondly, I think my case is very extreme. On Friday I already went to the ER in despair, then couldn’t make myself to enter (don’t believe I’d get help there for my cause) and then went back home. Every day is making me closer to something really horrible. I am so sorry to upset anyone.
March 18, 2013 at 5:15 pm
I’m so sorry that you got an infection, Jane. That just complicates things, and withdrawal is complicated enough without having more to deal with.
Your post resonates for me. I felt very similar to that. It passed more quickly for me, I think, but I did feel like I had reached the end of my tolerance, that it would never improve. It does get better. Believe me, I know how hard it is to believe that in your place. I didn’t believe it for a long time. I figured I would just suffer without relief forever. The idea that it will get better gains more traction when you can associate it with some progress. That’s the hardest thing, getting that first ray of hope under your belt.
A friend of mine calls it “bunker mode” It’s the waiting for improvement that is so infuriating. It seems so slow, so tenuous at first. It does snowball, though. It feels like the pit you’re in will take a lifetime to climb out of. Once it starts to improve, it will happen faster and faster. Eventually, the waves will be so subtle you may not even realize you’re in one until you really examine your feelings. Hang in there, please. I hope you feel better soon.
You should consider reinstating, even if it’s just to see if it makes a difference. Even if it doesn’t seem like it will help, you never know. You can stop taking it if it doesn’t improve things. It sounds like your symptoms are too heavy to deal with right now. They give Heroine addicts Methadone to help them get over the addiction, it makes sense to try the drug just to blunt your symptoms until you can get more stable and do a slow taper. You’re not going on them forever, just to do a more controlled taper.
March 15, 2013 at 5:04 pm
thanks thanks npanth, the weirdest thing happened this evening, i was ok for a few hours, and then i had the telly on in the background and they were talking about purgatory on a comedy show and for some reason that word and the thought of it totally freaked me out and sent me into a blind panic, it is just crazey, how can a word send me into an insane feeling of panic. it is just ridiculous, I hope the symptoms are me adjusting and that this bit as it is so bad is the worst bit before the healing becomes apparant. I cant even look of pictures of beaches anymore and wish i was there, i have no desire for anything left. And I agree with what you said about the sleep, i never had any problems on the drugs with sleep, only when i increased them, thank you for being there npanth, it is a lifeline in what i feel is my hardest time yet, darkest before the dawn hey x
March 16, 2013 at 9:37 am
The same thing happened to me. I had to turn off the tv for almost a month because my emotions would fluctuate so much while I was watching. Sadness during the program gave way to rage at a shampoo commercial. It was surreal for a while. I tried browsing the web, but that wasn’t much better. I tried playing video games, but my brain couldn’t keep up. Finally, I wound up on youtube watching other people playing video games.
Oddly enough, strategy games like Civilization have been a decent marker for how my cognitive functions are doing. If I’m doing well, winning games at higher difficulties, my brain is working better. If I have to go down in difficulty to stay competitive, I’m not doing as well. I had to go down two difficulty levels in withdrawal. Now, I’m one difficulty level higher than I was while I was on a full load of Paxil. It seems like another effect of the drug is to depress mental functions. These drugs just suppress so much, it’s frustrating.
I was able to start watching tv again, though… Even SSRI commercials 🙂
March 19, 2013 at 5:03 am
well the good news is I am getting a pattern of good sleep. SO much better it seems to have happened really suddenly, I have been having accupuncture for 6 weeks so I wonder if that has finally started to help or if it is just time, whatever it is I am incredibley grateful, but an improvement never seems enough when there are still other symptoms, But what upsets me so much is how scarerd I am of things, scared of being alone in the house when i work from home, this morning I became petrfied because my car is in the garage so if i freak out and feel so bad i need to go somewhere i cant. But when i am well that is something i would not give a second thought, i couldnt live my life like this in a continous state of fear and worry. My biggest worries normally are that one day I will die even if it is 100 years from now (which I heard that people in their 30s could live to 120!), also I worry about getting old (only because it is getting closer to death), and time going by too quickly (again because it is getting closer to the end), I want to punch people when they say oh time has gone so quickley, as I try and convince myself its not going too quickly. I can remember times in my life when I havent worried aboiut dieing one day and I can also remember a time when I havent worried about getting old, and I like being the age I am I certainley dont want to be 21 again, but I just freak out about it, do you think those fears will go away?????? its funny because I can pin point times in my life when i have felt bad from drugs or tolerance withdrarawl and i have started having these worries. I can see how the sleep can get better, I can see how the anxiety will go eventually, but I cant see an end to the fears an persistent worry, I know my worries are things i have no control over (by that I mean things I cant change, I cant stop getting older but if something was wrong at work there would be a solution)) but I just want to be content, I want to embrace getting older and wiser and having children, I want to know yes I will die one day but when I have done everything and I am ready, as I hear people say old people are ready to go. I am not really a worrier by nature, Im not scared to fly, I dont worry about work, I am confident when well so why I am I plagued by these horrible worries.I even tried to embrace religion to feel better about the whole death thing but it didnt help. Has anyone else had stupide fears that have gone away, I dont want to spend my life worrying about the end!!! x
March 20, 2013 at 5:41 am
I had a lot of strange, irrational fears. For about a month, I couldn’t sleep in my bed because I was convinced that the floor below it would collapse if I did. I actually spent that whole month lying on my living room floor with a blanket. Withdrawal mimics psychosis in many ways. I don’t know if the process is similar in the brain, but the emotional results are.
Many, perhaps most, people in SSRI withdrawal experience a fascination with death. I can’t explain it. Somehow, that thought becomes very intense, even if the patient has never had suicidal thoughts before. It does fade away over time. I don’t get that underlying sense of mortality anymore. It’s faded back to normal levels now.
March 20, 2013 at 2:42 pm
That’s good to know, I don’t want to live my life worrying about the day I am going to die and it is weird because sometimes I don’t care at all because I feel so bad, but when I feel ok I start worrying about it. Strange,and im pleased to know it will go, when I have had it before it has gone. So today wasn’t as bad as yesterday, yesterday my worst symptom was I could feel my brain in my head and I was so aware of it it was horrible, reminisint of what I used to call the brain fog, and in the night I was waking up feeling it, today that has gone and for the first time in ages I had depersonilastion and derealisation like when you don’t recognise reality, I was with my parents and although I knew it was them it was like I didn’t recognise them and I was scared to be with them in case they thought i was being weird, I haven’t had that with them for years. I wish this will end very soon, I guess it maybe soon. I was proud of myself for today as I was back in the head office of my work where only last week I had a full on a panic attack so I returned to the scene of the crime and I survived. I feel worse this evening than I have all day and normally I feel better in the evening, another different thing I guess, hoping tonight sleep will remain in the better bracket that it has been in for the last week. Fingers crossed, I spoke to the withdrawal helpline today and they were very encouraging that as I have been off a year now recovery should be soon, and that sleep improving is a good sign, she also said that feeling your brain is very common, I wish I could speak to them all day every day as the reassuring voices need to keep me going, my biggest worry is that when I am through this life won’t be as wonderful as I am expeting, I’m not hoping to get through this and find sheer happiness I know that’s not real life but what I’d do want ( and my therapist says this is possible) is contentment, to take the good days and cherish them and deal with the bad days and not spend every day worrying about dieing, getting older, my parents getting older when in their 60’s they seem in their prime, and then on top of that the withdrawal feelings. Is being content and just being, too much to ask for, I hope I’m not pushing for something that is unobtainable to me, I hope this isn’t the kind of person I am, if I think about when I have either been well on the drugs or think back 16 years ago before I started taking the drugs then I was content and fine, lots of stories I read are from people who after withdrawal are more chilled and the best they have ever been, I hope this is the case for me as I am sooooooo ready to start enjoying life!!! Do you know stories of people who have found contentment at the end of their journey????? X
March 21, 2013 at 6:00 am
I had to put the thought that I wouldn’t improve out of my mind. SSRI alter your perception and the way you think. It’s almost as if you can’t trust your own mind while you’re withdrawaling. It’s weird, but the thoughts that seem so rational and seated in your own mind are being driven by the drug, not yourself. I only really understood it intrinsically after it started to get better. The more time you get feeling normal, the stranger withdrawal will feel. SSRI create a new relative mindset that’s distorted. It’s not you that’s strange, it’s the SSRI you that’s strange.
I know a couple people who have been through withdrawal and found/recovered purpose in their lives. The folks who run the SSRI bulletin boards are good examples. They, or family members, went through horrible withdrawals and turned that anger/depression into advocacy. Other people just return to their lives. I’m getting my life back now. I’m not beholden to Paxil anymore, too.
March 19, 2013 at 10:14 am
its so cruel after a decent night sleep that I can feel so bad, I know i dont feel as bad as I have but in my head, like physically in my head i feel so broken and wrong, worried i am going insane. I know it will pass and in a few hours I will probabley feel better but when i am in it it is so horrible. I am hoping that recovery is getting nearer though as the very problem i went to the doctor about , heart palpitations havent happened for 3 days, so it just shows how it all comes and goes and sleep is better, i really hope i dont let myself down by thinking this is a sign that things are really starting to move along now, I am defiantley having more times of being manageable than I was, I just want to see the light at the end of the tunnel, I already feel more stable after writing this, that shows how quickley my emotions channge, it is so hard to think of the positive though, no matter how much all the advice is to let it happen and know we will get better, and my husband tells me this, when you are in it, there is no way to stay positive. I would challenge someone with a broken leg in immense pain to think …. its ok let the pain take oveer me it will go soon….. no they wouldnt because they would be given pain relief and that would help them think positively, for us there is no pain relief!!! we have to just get through x
March 20, 2013 at 5:52 am
Knowing that the wave will pass is a good start. That’s how mindfulness starts to have an effect on withdrawal symptoms. Even if you’re just shouting that into the vacuum at first, it will gain traction eventually. I know what you mean about other illnesses having treatments. I think withdrawal will eventually have a treatment. It’s just stuck in the denial phase right now. Doctors don’t want to admit that the drug is addictive and causes this much suffering. SSRI are still seen as a wonder drug, with very few faults. Certainly, any problem with the drug must be a problem with the patient, not the drug? Once that misconception is broken, people will start to seriously study withdrawal and come up with something that allows patients to get off the drug while minimizing withdrawal. We may not benefit from it, but it will happen eventually.
March 21, 2013 at 6:37 am
I just hope I am better when all this is over, like I said I am worried that even when I am right I am not right, and I say that because I havent known wellness for so long I cant remember what it is like, but ehrn I do get a glimpse of wellness even for a few hours i still dont feel like the horrible thoughts have gone i will sit there and think sad things, is that because it is a window not recovery, are the 2 things diffrent? Last night was horrible, after saying I felt DP and DR I went to bed really early as I was so tires, I was asleep by 9:30pm and the at 10:08pm I woke with my heart in my mouth and it bowled me over, it was like where the hell did that come from, no thoughts nothing attached t it, I thought I was going to have to go outside for a walk to calm down, and that just went on alll night, it has really really scared me because I had a week of improved sleep and was starting to feel confident about better sleep and then I had the worst night I have had in months, how does that happen??? I am praying that it was a one off, I cant expect to go from months of no sleep to straight back into good sleep so I am hoping it was just a blip in the road, when I do have smething like that tjough I am sure I manifest it to happenan again, so I will go to bed scared tonight that I will wake up like that again, which will surely make it happen, I kept telling myself last night this is not new, it will pass, but it ruins the day too, again today I thought about reinstating and it has been a year ff next week, surely I should keep going but it seems to be getting harder!!!! x
March 21, 2013 at 5:52 pm
I’ve been dipping into and out of a mild wave over the past week or so. It’s been a month since my last taper, so it’s kind of expected. I really notice the difference when I realize how I’m different in a wave. It feels more like I’m back on the drug during a wave, now. In the clear periods, it’s wonderful to be able to learn complex things, and speak coherently, and control what I say.
I was in a meeting yesterday with several other people. One guy was just talking about tangential things. Earlier, he trapped me in an office conversation that lasted way too long about non work stuff. Like I used to do to other people. It suddenly hit me. He takes an SSRI! He can’t filter what he says, he just thinks something and it comes out, even if it’s not related to what the conversation is about. That’s how I used to be. I’d interject things into meetings without really thinking about what I was talking about. Whether it was whining, or a little angry, or constructive. At the time, it felt like I was engaged in the discussion, but I really wasn’t. It was a very interesting discovery. In a training class this afternoon, I was poaching answers from the other people in the room, and realized that I was not filtering anymore. I had to make a conscious effort to moderate what I said.
I can’t wait until I’m off this drug for good, and I can really rely on my innate filter to protect me from being an idiot 🙂 Try to remember that waves will end, and you will get better. The hard part is getting through the tough time we’re experiencing right now. Hang in there.
March 22, 2013 at 6:38 am
Thanks for reply npanth I hope your wave doesn’t last too long it is great that you can recognise things. I just feel like I am getting worse, if I look back at my posts I am definitely in a worse place than I was 6 months ago. Is it possible to get even worse before recovery? I have a question that you might have a view on, I can identify windows when I feel I can cope better, but I wouldn’t say in those windows I am better, I read in one of your posts that a window isn’t normal it is progress towards normality, i like this statement because a lot of the time when I am in a window it still isn’t how I want to be when recovered, for example I can be in a window and think ok this is good and then I can ruin it by thinking oh but one day I am going to die, or I feel ok but I bet I could loose it and feel like I am sabotaging my windows, will this stop as I get better? Yesterday was one of my worst days I ended up walking up and down the street outside where I work trying to calm myself down from thinking I was going insane, what then happens is it makes me scared to go back to that place as it has made me think it will happen again, anyway I survived, I drove 2 hours home and I had a few hours sleep. Today again i feel on verge of insane, I have had to take the day off work as my head couldn’t take anymore challenges, my boss has been really understanding and is even reading up on withdrawal, I have now got to the point that I can’t eat, I said to my husband i do actually believe it will end the badness and I do believe it is the drugs that have done this to me but it is the getting through bit that I can’t bare, I spent all last night thinking about going on trycillics which my shrink recommended we try in the past, and I thought maybe that won’t be so bad, but after one whole year off I don’t want to give up but there is only so much one human being can take and I feel I am coming to the end of my threshold especially as I feel it is getting worse. Do I really want to reinstate after a year if I could be on the brink of getting better. I have read in certain articles that it actually starts to get better quite quickly after a really really bad wave, so as always I am hoping this is the darkness before the dawn. X
March 22, 2013 at 2:04 pm
after this post today my amazing boss has been researching withdrawal and has even contacted his doctor, this man is a self made millionaire, and the kindest human being ever, he has told me to get the best psychitrist in london who specialises in withdrarawl who i can see every week until i get better and he will pay for it, it is unbelievable, I am in shock but so so grateful, so i have looked for doctors who have written papers on withdrarwl in the south of england and have contacted them. My question is does anyone know of any psychtrists in england who deal with withdrarawl? x
March 22, 2013 at 3:38 pm
Very difficult, Emma. In the UK, David Healy in Wales is the most knowledgeable about withdrawal symptoms and post-discontinuation withdrawal syndrome.
March 22, 2013 at 3:56 pm
thanks altostrata, I emailed him earlier to see if he had any recomendations and he has already replied saying there is no one in the south who specilises and no one in general really does, time is the only answer, he also said if they are working on a way to get over withdrarawl. I know there is no one to cure me but i need to see soemone who can encourage me x
March 22, 2013 at 4:40 pm
See http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/988-recommended-doctors-therapists-or-clinics/
March 22, 2013 at 8:32 pm
Emma, don’t blame yourself if you feel like you are “sabotaging” your windows. It’s part of withdrawal to exaggerate the waves and distrust the windows. It’s almost a meta symptom of withdrawal. I think it’s an extension of the anxiety that withdrawal causes. That meta anxiety will fade over time. It took me a few windows before I started trusting that they weren’t just brief respites from the next wave.
I’m glad you have an understanding boss. Most people have to choose between suffering through withdrawal or going without a paycheck. It’s almost an impossible choice. it doesn’t make the symptoms any better, but at least it’s one less thing to worry about.
I’ve talked to several people who say that the period after the first year is an up and down time. Some have worse symptoms, others begin to climb out of it. Most describe the bad times as lasting a couple weeks to a couple months. That’s one of the really hard things about withdrawal. You could wake up tomorrow morning and be a significant way towards a long window. It makes starting a new drug very problematic. Should you commit to a course of treatment that might run over a year for a problem that would have resolved itself in a month? That’s one of the things that kept me from starting the new drugs that my doctor wanted me to take. I clung, desperately sometimes, to the idea that I would turn the corner some day. Starting a new drug would leave me with another withdrawal to do all over again. It’s a rotten choice. A new drug could provide some relief, but it could also make things worse. It could add in new startup and side effects to your existing withdrawal symptoms. Most of the people who get in over their heads are ones who have gotten onto several drugs. It’s hard to tell where the effects of one drug stop and the next one begins.
March 23, 2013 at 9:58 am
It’s so comical I emailed about 6 psychtrist and 2 have come back already and said that withdrawal can’t last this long and I need treatment for depression and anxiety!!! I figured out why no one knows about this and it’s because so many people stay on the drugs for life, I would have if I hadn’t decided to try without, my psychtrist who does believe in it told me the reson he has no experience in it is because everyone he treats want the drugs and at some point have been told they will need to stay on them all their life and they believe that, maybe as hard as this is we are the lucky ones who will one day experience clear minds and natural contentment, I have read too much to not believe in it so as I said to my husband today it takes a very strong person to stick to their guns and really belive it, the only way to prove it is to get through it! I had a response from a psychtrist I have heard of who said after reading my symptoms and seeing i believe in withdrawal he can treat me without drugs, so I am going to see him first, I know he can’t cure me but Weekley encouragement and ways to cope will see me through, I would see my original psychtrist as he believes in it but he isn’t one for Weekley sessions, it’s like call me if you can’t cope and we can look at drugs or keep going until you get through, I need someone I like and who encourages me x
March 23, 2013 at 11:38 am
My doctor was truly puzzled when I told him I wanted to taper off Paxil. I could see him trying to process the idea right in front of me. After he ordered his thoughts a bit, he was very emphatic that I needed the drug, that I should be taking it for the rest of my life. I wasn’t getting any benefit from Paxil, and hadn’t for several years. I was sliding down a spiral in my personal and professional life and didn’t care. His only solution was new drugs. It’s very frustrating that we have to become medically non compliant to even question the effects the drugs are having on us.
The conventional wisdom is that SSRI withdrawal cannot last longer than 4-6 weeks. Anyone who’s been through it knows that’s not true. Yet, doctors cling to the notion that SSRI are innocuous “mental vitamins”. Stick to your guns, Emma. Take doctors’ advice, but think critically about what they tell you.
March 21, 2013 at 6:20 pm
Today is Day 341 of my Tramadol withdrawal. I’m using L-Tryptophan daily, (be very careful, L-Tryptophan does not safely combine with many medications and can cause seizures and death if combined with SSRIs or other serotonin-increasing drugs, MAOIs, etc.. Always ask your doctor before using L-Tryptophan). I’ve found L-Tryptophan helps me sleep longer than a couple hours with less “eeek” when I waken and eases the “extreme rage events”, those scary drug-related intense-explosive fury at absolutely nothing at all. I’ve also learned that my anger is also vulnerability, fatigue, anxiety-fear. My protracted withdrawal from Tramadol, an SSRI drug that changes the physiology of the brain has taken nearly a year so far. It takes time for the brain to heal.
I have really appreciated your blog entries related to SSRIs. Thanks for posting this series.
March 22, 2013 at 8:37 pm
Thanks. I’ve been wary of Tryptophan during my taper. It affects Serotonin in similar ways to the drugs themselves. It’s not as powerful as an SSRI, but I was worried that I might have to do a second taper off the Tryptophan after I got off the SSRI. It could just be part of my general distrust of supplements, which is a holdover from my disillusionment over the way that SSRI were prescribed to me. I think that I would cringe from almost any scrip my doctor handed me right now.
March 27, 2013 at 8:57 pm
I share your mistrust of any prescribed medicine or supplement; I’m enraged at continued lies about Tramadol and it’s protracted withdrawal. At this point in
my “discontinuation syndrome” I dose every 12 hours with 500mg of L-Tryptophan. I’ve taken it since the 80s.Since I quit Tramadol last June, I’ve stopped using this tryptan without any immediate observable bad effect for up to 1-2 weeks, then I start to feel increasingly edgy, sleepless and intensely SSRI-irritable. My diet is good, but I seem to still become “serotonin” irregular. It helps if I provide at least 500mg of L-Tryptophan every few days.
I supply the serotonin precursor and let my brain sort out the dosage. It has worked well for me. I was very addicted and unhealthy last June. Have you ever considered what it would take to develop a diagnostic for excess blood/serum serotinin in-vivo? I think alot of people die from variations of serotonin poisoning condition in emergency rooms, it’s very hard to spot.
I intend to taper off the tryptan this summer replacing my dose of L-Tryptophan with regular strenuous physical activity.
Thank-you for your reply and your most excellent blog posts. It’s been a great revelation to read your observations on how the brain processes strong emotions such as mindless rage as a result of SSRI discontinuation.
Personally, I wouldn’t risk taking any tryptan while tapering off any SSRI. IMHO, there are too many clearance variables and Serotonin Storm is too deadly.
Namaste.
March 28, 2013 at 5:46 pm
Supplements are a topic that I struggle with. I try not to let my personal mistrust of them color my advice to people. I’ve met several people who get great benefits from various supplements. Just because I didn’t see a noticeable benefit from vitamins/fish oil/tryptophan doesn’t mean that it won’t help someone else. I hope you feel better, and good luck with your tryptophan weaning this year.
Thanks for the nice words, too.
June 29, 2013 at 8:21 am
Read a disturbing bit in The Gormley Files–
“What is L-tryptophan used for today? “L-tryptophan is commonly used for mood elevation; nervousness, premenstrual syndrome (PMS), jet lag, depression, chemical withdrawal and dieting (since it helps to reduce carbohydrate cravings),” added FTH’s Bass. “What most people don’t realize is that even during the time that it was not available (due to the one bad batch from Japan) it was still added to all baby formula manufactured in the U.S.”
Personally I wouldn’t want my infant exposed to L-trytophan. I found no other info online or at FDA.gov. Am I surprised? No.
July 4, 2013 at 5:38 pm
I agree. Tryptophan is used as a supplement to blunt withdrawal symptoms because it acts on Serotonin receptors in a similar manner as SSRI. I can see the temptation to use it. It’s not an SSRI, and it helps some people with their symptoms.. My concern with it is that it doesn’t resolve the underlying receptor issues. There are times in withdrawal when it’s worthwhile to delay symptoms, though, and worry about the longterm symptoms struggles in the longterm.
March 22, 2013 at 6:40 am
I take 2 tablespoons of pumpkin seeds a day to get my tryptophan on my shrinks recommendations, I too am a year off and I have had no improvement but am forever hopefully x
March 22, 2013 at 10:35 pm
Emma,really sorry your withdrawal is taking so long,looks like were in the same boat.
After my melt down I was hit with the loss of my uncle last week,he is my Mothers Brother and was extremely helpful to me when I first got hurt and was there to help me when I tried to commit suicide,I felt my parents at the time had enough to deal with,my father was dying of leukemia,although we didn’t know it then it was only after I was out of therapy that I learned he had it.
I am truly thankful to him and will miss him dearly.
Then I get hit with the flu and I’m still feeling like crap ,it just never ends.
I want to talk about your thought’s about time passing by to quickly and death.
I too think about both all the time,remember I had an out of body experience during my accident,you would think that I would not be afraid,but I am and I also dwell on the fact that I am 62 yrs old and my father passed away at the age of 57.
I know you have and still are going through a really bad withdrawal,I wish I had an answer as to when you will get a break ,but all my research has turned up a flow chart that looks like a lie detector test , it’s all over the place.
My GI problems have returned full force with an added bonus,I have what I describe as inner tremors ,I lay in bed and my head to my stomach seem to vibrate and when I wake up it’s still there,the pain is back,and I’m still having balancing problems,although not as bad,I still get them.
I am right back to where I started when I first posted here, only now I have both psych and psychical symptoms to deal with.
It’s crazy I know,but we are still here telling each other about how we feel,sometimes I get the impression that we don’t really want to get better for fear of having a relapse and having to start over,I don’t trust my mind or body and I think that is half if not more,why I’m having a hard time with this whole withdrawal thing,I am trying very hard to convince myself that this is going to pass,but then I get those thoughts like you do and it just sets me back,some how I have to believe,and when that revaluation is had ,I think the healing process will be quicker and less dramatic.
This is just the direction my thoughts are going and just thought I would throw them out there.
I read more and more about what we are going through ,and there are so many sites popping up about SSRI/Benzo withdrawal and the stories are all too familiar.
I did a survey on another site and really hope the DR that was conducting the survey does something good with all the data he/she got,time will only tell.
In the mean time,good windows and less waves, we deserve some smooth sailing for a change.
Hang in there.
JAY
March 23, 2013 at 11:42 am
Hey jay, nice to see you back. I’m sorry you have so many things to worry about. I hope you feel better soon.
I’m getting better at accepting progress and recognizing the temporary nature of setbacks. It’s hard sometimes. It seems like it’s a process, just like withdrawal itself.
It does seem like the stories that we read have many things in common. I think withdrawal will become more recognized in the future. It seems inevitable that it will become increasingly hard to maintain the idea that withdrawal doesn’t exist.
March 24, 2013 at 9:20 pm
npanth,glad your getting some smooth sailing in a sea of turmoil.
right now I’m still dragging my anchor,I see my psych tomorrow ,but with this new storm coming in she may cancel.
She was proposing I switch from X to Klonopin,but i’m not sure I want to do that,from what I’ve heard and read ,it’s just another drug you have to tapper off and it’s not that successful the transition has to done very carefully and meticulous
to much of one or the other can bring on bad sxs and right now I have enough to handle.
I think I will just keep going the way I going and hope that I catch a break,no sense in rocking the boat any more than necessary.
emma,I hope your doing better as is for everyone else,all we can do is hold on and hope that our break is just around the corner.
good windows and smooth seas
Jay
March 25, 2013 at 5:31 pm
I think you’re approaching the decision to start a new drug with the right mindset. I’ve met several people who started on the polydrug spiral. They ended up on a fistful of pills, and a long, difficult taper. Some of the admins over at paxilprogress had to go through multiple tapers. They recovered, but it was more difficult than it needed to be. My doctor wanted to get me on the SSRI merry go round. Now, a year later, I’m so glad that I never started those new prescriptions. I was desperate at the time. A new drug, after what Paxil was doing to me, seemed like a terrible idea.
That’s not to say that it wouldn’t help you, just that I think it’s a very dangerous solution. I hope that distinction makes sense. I’m very hesitant to advise people about what drugs they should or shouldn’t take. I only have my own experience and the reading I’ve done over the past year to guide me in my advice. That’s very much short of a medical degree. I’m frustrated that medical and regulatory agents have abdicated their knowledge responsibilities to amateurs like me.
It should be a doctor giving you advice on how to get through this crisis… And fools like me telling you to just take a pill 🙂
March 26, 2013 at 1:35 pm
I desperately need your advice and help! 10 days ago I came down with a flu – horrible. But the most horrible things started a week later when a fever was over and I still have some remaining symptoms like cough and congestion – withdrawal hit as never before – head pressure, numbness, ears completely plugged and extreme -extreme anxiety and depression alternating. Mostly anxiety to a degree like psychosis. I can’t do anything, can’t think of anything, it consumes me entirely. I can’t find any relief. Lost sleep again, no appetite, weight continues to decline to soon negative numbers. What is it – exacerbation of withdrawal or a new psychiatric development. Many times was about rushing to ER but I can’t take that ordeal one more time and what’s the point. Please, tell me if it would ever subside. Pressure in the ears is unbearable. Maybe I have something going on in the head, need to check if there is any abnormality in the brain, complication from the flu?
March 26, 2013 at 8:19 pm
I’ve had issues with withdrawal symptoms during a “normal” sickness. One of the things that withdrawal does is make us very sensitive to physical changes in the body. It makes a stuffy nose into a whole head cold. I had a runny nose for months. I still can’t figure out why my nose ran all the time. It recurs at a lower intensity when I get a wave now, and changes in intensity depending on how bad my withdrawal symptoms are. I’m pretty sure that it was caused, or at least exacerbated by, withdrawal.
Withdrawal also seems to have a strong effect on ears and hearing. Tinnitus is very common. So is that stuffed up feeling in the ears. I had similar symptoms for a long time. It did fade away slowly, to the point that I don’t feel it now.
One of the really frustrating things about withdrawal is that it feels like a permanent state, that it will never change. I think that it is one of the hardest mental challenges to overcome during recovery. It’s not easy to convince yourself that it’s a temporary crisis, especially when it extends over the long term, and you experience it so keenly each day. Deciding where the boundary between withdrawal symptoms and a problem caused by another problem is also very hard. I teetered on that brink with my heart rate. For a long time, my heart beat at a faster and irregular beat. It was frightening and worrisome. I only really believed that it was a withdrawal symptom when it started to fade away as my taper got slower. I hope you feel better soon. Having a cold in withdrawal just compounds an already difficult situation.
March 26, 2013 at 9:04 pm
Thank you, npanth. It does feel permanent and, with the symptoms so extreme and unrelenting, aggravating with a drop of a hat, let alone something serious like a flu, or asthma, of heart problems (I also started feeling palpitations and tachycardia and don’t know what to attribute them to) there is no way you could convince yourself that it’s temporary. How temporary? If they at least settled on a level that would be tolerable or show some signs of subsiding (even tiny positive dynamics) – instead, what’s going on is when you feel that you’ve gone through the worst and there is no possible “worse” than that – here we go – you get hit with even more horrible wave or something else. In addition, a desert on non-understanding around you – people are saying that it’s self-fulfilling prophecy: if you stop talking about that in a such way and just set a positive goal it’ll go away by itself. Nobody could get the nature of this condition b/c it stands out so profoundly from any other disease or illness when there is either positive or negative dynamics and the outcome is determined by that within real time frame. “Ours” is totally mysterious, comes in waves and windows and couldn’t be explained or helped by any conventional means. It’s so hard to reconcile with the fact that you live in the city with developed health care system and there is no entity, hospital or doctor that could help you or at least understand what’s going on. Frustration is compounded by so many things in withdrawal. And on the opposite end it’s only you – weakened, extremely vulnerable and suffering tremendously.
March 26, 2013 at 10:51 pm
Npanth,thanks as always with sound advise, I was already convinced that I was not going to try anything new,I also read about the horror stories about crossing over from X to K and X to Val,everybody that did it wished they hadn’t
So I’m staying where I am right now,I ‘m having rebound anxiety and to make things worse, I blew my nose tonight and it stated to bleed, it wasn’t bad but it took awhile to stop,this is the second time in about a month that this has happened,I went to my PCP and then my ENT DR,to which they found nothing wrong, but I have found a correlation to the nose bleeds and extreme anxiety,looking at my log I was having extreme anxiety when I got my first one,my be nothing but in the state I’m in you know how this will manifest itself into me going to the DR and asking to have an MRI done, which by the way I don’t want to do,I have had so many cat and MRI’s in the last 4 yrs i’m beginning to glow in the dark.
It just may be my age,and my constantly blowing my nose,this is always a bad time of year,because it is so dry.
right now I’m trying to cope with this dam anxiety,I never had this before I started but now I get it a lot,sometimes I think is worse than a panic attack,when I got those they were over in few minutes but left me spent but I always bounced back,these seam to go on for days at a time,I go to bed with it and wake up with it,really has me baffled as I don’t know the cause other than it’s a withdrawal sx,I’m still working and the stress level is up, so i’m sure this is a contributing factor,I’m going to take some time off in a few weeks after my projects are done,I really need a break.
Emma .I hope your new DR helps you out,heaven knows you can use it,as everybody else here can too.
I will be here more often now,the other site I was posting on was really for benzo tapering and support,because I’m not tapering right now, I said good bye and would return when I started to taper.
Talk to every body soon,
Jay
March 27, 2013 at 5:04 pm
If I were to write this any other place I’m sure I would be relentlessly riticuled for not being thankfully etc. etc. I hope you guys can bear with me also.
I am going on a literally all expense paid cruise to a very very nice location with my family and lots and lots of friends this weekend. I have known about this for 1 yr now. I have to fly to the ships location and sail from there.
I have been afraid of flying for years now. I have never been on a ship either. I have in my past literally flown all over the world with no issues. I’m not sure were this fear comes from? I am apprehensive about just about every aspect of this trip. I have been in withdrawl for well over a year now with little reprieve. I am afraid how being away from my normal will affect me? I have to do this for my family because they are so very excited to go.
I have been in a pretty bad wave for several weeks now. I’m sure it’s because of this upcoming trip. I just wish I could somehow rationalize this crap and move on. The depersonalization has been agonizing for weeks now.
Any words of encouragement??? Any good techniques for facing these fears with no medicine?
March 27, 2013 at 6:40 pm
The hardest part of a trip like that, at a time like this, is the anticipation. I understand completely why you feel like its a hard thing to do. A cruise is a good kind of trip to take in withdrawal, though. Those ships have all kinds of nooks and crannies where you can just hang out away from everyone else. Find a spot you like, or just explore. Don’t underestimate the power of fresh sea air to help with your symptoms. Something as simple as sitting on deck watching people go by can be very therapeutic. Especially because its a passive interaction. There’s no imperative to be interactive, or even friendly.
Try not to drink a lot. Withdrawal hangovers SUCK and they last like twice as long as normal.
Don’t schedule too many activities or shore excursions. It’s better to have as little schedule as you can manage. Besides, unless its a tour that you couldn’t do on your own, it’s usually better to explore the ports on your own.
Buy the soda package. Getting a soda every time you hold out your glass is great on those trips.
Try to put yourself on hold until you get on the boat. Traveling is stressful, even when you don’t have the added problems that withdrawal entails.
Focus on relaxing. Instead of seeing it as an adventure that needs to be explored, think of it as a time without responsibilities or commitments. Cruises are good for providing both kinds of vacations. Try to have fun. I’ve been on a couple cruises. It’s a good vaca. Good luck.
March 27, 2013 at 6:14 pm
You might consider one more test to be sure about your nose bleed. SSRI make vascular changes, so withdrawal can cause a lot of strange symptoms related to that. For instance, I had a constant runny nose for almost a year. It still comes back from time to time, and is commensurate with the severity of my symptoms. Still, nose bleeds can be an indicator of other issues.
I’m hesitant to relate this. I don’t mean to scare you, but nosebleeds have been on my mind this past month. My father had a series of nosebleeds before his aneurism. I don’t know if the two were related, and I don’t mean to imply that your nosebleeds are anything but ‘normal’ withdrawal symptoms. Perhaps some kind of chemical tag imaging test could see something that traditional imaging has missed.
Take whatever break you need. One of the things I’ve realized during this experience is that we can be our own worst taskmasters, driving recovery faster than we should. We should all be more compassionate and patient with ourselves 🙂
March 28, 2013 at 2:44 pm
Well npanth,scare me you did,I had an instant anxiety attack when I read your reply,I have since contacted my DR and he is trying to setup a date for me to have a scan,don’r know what kind as of yet, but I can’t find any correlation base on fact that nose bleeds are a sign of brain aneurysm’s,but you definitely got my attention.
Jay
March 28, 2013 at 6:11 pm
Damn
I’m so sorry. I knew I was risking overdoing it. I should have found another analogy/example. I’m sorry. Nose bleeds have been on my mind this past month. I typed it, deleted it, then typed it again. I should have gone with my better sense. Nose bleeds aren’t a diagnostic tool in evaluating the risk for a brain bleed. They *can* occur together, but they don’t necessarily predict each other. There are many different, innocuous, things that could be causing your nosebleeds. Chances are, it’s something like an iron deficiency, or another similar thing.
The full story is that there is some familial guilt associated with my parents passing. My brother feels bad that he wasn’t more strident when my mother was dying. He felt that she had a bladder problem, but the doctors refused to consider that in their diagnosis. Her bladder burst and she became septic. When my father had nosebleeds in the week preceding his aneurism, we felt bad that we didn’t recognize it somehow. It may not have had anything to do with his brain bleed, but it stuck with us because it was close in time to his collapse.
So, when you said you were having nosebleeds, that brought all those feelings to the surface, and I felt compelled to not let it pass, even if I was trying to fit a square diagnosis in a round problem. I’m sorry that I caused you stress and anxiety, that was not my intention. Be careful of the nosebleeds, but don’t let them cause you undue stress.
March 28, 2013 at 10:53 pm
Npanth, it’s ok ,I talked with my DR and he assured me that the nose bleeds were not an indication of a brain Aneurism, and reassured me if he thought for one minute that I did, he would put me in the hospital and do several test, he said that my nose bleeds could probably be ssri related but he also mentioned my age and the fact that I am always blowing and clearing my nose that a blood vessel has probably weekend and needs to be cauterized .
I’m truly sorry about your father and you can’t blame yourself, were not Dr.’s and second guessing
may or may not have saved your father, I really don’t think the two were related.
I carry a lot of guilt to this day about my father, when he started feeling sick at the age of 45
We all just thought it was going to pass, he had test after test and the DR.’s were baffled as to what was wrong with him, they put him on several meds including prednisone and sent him home, it seem to do the trick for a while but he got worse and eventually had to stop working, it was when we brought him to Sloan Kettering Hospital did we learn the truth that he had advanced Leukemia and the rarest form.
At the age of 50 he was told that he had less than a year to live, the family got together and threw him a 50th surprise birthday party and late in the evening he turned to my wife and I and said, I’m not going without a fight, he lived 7 more yrs, but it was a living hell ,in the middle of all this I almost died from my accident and was fighting for my own life, while I was recuperating ,I spent a lot of time with my father, I drove him to the DR’s and took him to the Hospital every week for blood transfusions, near the end he refused to go to the hospital and my mother would beg me to make him go, I fought with my father to go have the transfusion’s even though he knew that they were killing him, he was getting too much iron
and that was what finally did him in.
I was torn over this, because I should have honored his wishes and not forced him out the door; I told my mother that I would never forgive her for that, it made feel so guilty and it made my recovery a lot longer than it should have.
Right now I’m feel I’m at the peak of my withdrawal, I have never had so much anxiety and so intense that I feel like there is no hope, and now I have a very hard time falling asleep, something I never had before, it’s so bad that a 1 mg Xanax can’t knock it down, I am a sub metabolizer and because of this 1 mg X to someone with a normal metab is like 2mgs to me, as I start to fall asleep and I feel myself going under ,I get rocked with intense anxiety and I wake right up, it will go on like this until Im so exhausted that I finally fall asleep and then a few hours later I’m up and into a full blown anxiety state, I don’t want to say attack, because the anxiety is always there it just get more intense as the day goes on, this just stated a few days ago and now , I’m playing right into the hands of my Psych ,who has been very patient by the way, and has honored my wishes, but I feel now she is going to take control and try to put me on something to see if it improves my QOL,I don’t know what else to do, obviously I can’t handle the anxiety, something I never had before is so prevalent now, and I’ve never had to deal with it on such a high level, I really don’t know how you people can handle it, I give you a lot of credit.
Again Npanth I’m not mad and I’m sorry for the loss of your father, I sure miss the hell out of mine.
Jay
March 29, 2013 at 5:35 pm
Thanks for the kind words, Jay. I do feel some closure about my father’s death. We talked a lot in the last few years, and didn’t really have any outstanding issues between us. I think the angst about not recognizing any problem is the same one that anyone who loses a family member to a sudden illness experiences. I think it’s natural to try to remember any signs that might have predicted it, and manufacture them if they’re not apparent.
I’m glad that your doctor was able to give you some peace about your nosebleeds. I trust empirical diagnostic medicine much more than I do the judgment calls. If a doctor said I needed a drug because of measurable numbers on a blood test or an image from a scan, I’d be much more likely to follow that advice. We all share the distrust of the judgments that result in a psych prescription.
I had similar times during my fast taper when I couldn’t sleep, and was in an almost constant state of anxiety. That was the bottom for me. The bad news is that it’s a horrible existence. The good news is that it gets better after you get through this crisis. It’s helpful to view it as a finite mental crisis, not a new permanent state of mind. I know it’s hard to think of it in any other way, but it will pass in time. I wish I could give you a definitive timeline. I only started to recognize progress after it had taken hold, so it’s hard for me to say how long the bottom lasted. I measured progress by realizing that I’d gotten 4 hours sleep each night in the previous week instead of 2. Then it was 6 instead of 4. It’s frustratingly slow, but it does happen. Hang in there. Try to keep your exposure to stress and heavy thinking to a minimum. Think of it as putting your mind in a cast, like you would for a broken leg.
March 29, 2013 at 6:26 pm
Thanks Npanth, it’s not what we bargained for,to be sure.
I guess my biggest problem is,I’ve never had to deal with extreme anxiety before,in the past when I had a panic attack,I would just pop an X and just wait it out,now it’s like a constant state of mind and any little twinge sets me off,I am so in tuned to my body right now that I am consumed with fear night and day.
This was something I never saw coming and I am having a hard if not impossible time dealing with it.
I don’t know why I am so afraid,this has to be the worse side effect that you can get,I can deal with the other symptoms,but this one definitely has it’s claws in deep,
I try to keep myself busy ,but that’s not always possible,sad thing is I’m home alone a lot and there is a ton of thing I could be doing,but what needs to done needs my undivided attention,and we know where my mind is right now.I started a project last year of refinishing my hallway coming into my house,I love working with wood and it’s really killing me and my wife that I can’t finish it,at least right now.
I am going to try to some small things around the house for now and tackle that project and finish it as soon as I can get a break from this constant anxiety.
Thanks again,
Jay
March 30, 2013 at 5:29 am
I had to turn the tv off for more than a month. Tv shows caused me anxiety, commercials caused me anger. I couldn’t win. So, I tried to play video games, but they caused me frustration. Eventually, I was reduced to watching youtubes of other people playing Civilization 5.
That’s when it started to feel like my mind was in a cast. I had to reduce my interactions until it became bearable. I think the anxiety is caused by an acute over sensitivity. Everything is amplified. The only way to mitigate it is to turn down the volume, or the amount of input. Do whatever you can to minimize stress until it blows over. Hang in there, be kind to yourself. 🙂
March 25, 2013 at 5:59 am
HI Guys, Jay sorry not to have replied, we missed you. I hope you are doing better and npanth thanks as always for the support. I have been really bad had to take time off work and thought i needed to be hospitalized yesterday i felt so near insanity and then 30 minutes later felt fine, it is so bizarre and horrible, good news is I have made it to work today and I have my first appointment this afternoon with the psychtrist my boss is paying for me to see weekly, funnily enough he is a television psychtrist over here so I already know his face well, I have been emailing him all weekend and he has said that he has successfully got people off ssris and he has seen withdrarawl before and he is rated one of top 10 psychtrists in UK so I am praying he can help me, he says he can do this without medication so I guess learning coping techniques until I get better and reassurance. I am going with an open mind though and I have to be honest if he thinks that i need to take something to come off slower i would consider it, it is 99% not going to happen but I cant close any doors when I feel this bad and am so unwell. But as I feel today, better, there is no way I am taking a thing, lets see what he says and I will update you all. I think I just need a professional to tell me i willl be ok on a regular basis. I hope you all are hanging in there, I am forever indebted to my boss x
March 25, 2013 at 5:46 pm
Good luck with the new doctor, Emma. Over here, the tv doctors are the pill pushers. Their shows are filled with fad diets and “cleansing” products who, as chance would have it, advertise on their shows.
I had a lot of trouble coming to terms with reinstatement. Even going back to a much lower dose felt like an abandonment of principles, a failure of strength. Now, a year later, it seems like the right decision. I’m much closer to getting off Paxil. The tapers are getting slower, but I’m making progress without the debilitating symptoms.
I’m still hesitant to recommend that people take new drugs to deal with withdrawal. Most of the stories I’ve read by people who’ve done that are negative experiences. Reinstating on the original drug seems to be the most innocuous way to taper. As if anything about withdrawal could be termed “innocuous”. Good luck, I hope the new doctor has some good advice for you
March 26, 2013 at 1:53 am
so not going back on drugs i had some sound advice and commitment that i did not need drugs but what i have to do is going to be incredibley hard but it will get me through withdraral quicker, and that is basically aviod nothing, do everything that i hate doing knowing that the bad feelins will pass, i understand and this is what i will do, i cant tell you how hard it will be but it will pay dividedends, i will write more later, wish me luck with powering through x
March 26, 2013 at 9:17 pm
Also, npanth, I wanted to ask – have you ever thought of what’s behind that awful pressure in the head, squeezing and plugging ear sensation – what should really going on in the brain to cause those symptoms, why they are so persistent and sensible and correlate (for me, at least) with intensity of mental, emotional issues? Is it spasm of the blood vessels or something else. Did anybody have MRI or other work-up on the head done to try to figure out what’s going on. And, I couldn’t agree more, that it’s so hard to distinguish other “real” conditions from withdrawal. Of course, other problems get exacerbated by withdrawal tremendously, but even tiny discomfort feels like something very bad, what to say about big issues. Does this torturing hypersensitivity to almost everything ever goes away or at least gets easier? People say: don’t go to the blogs and forums, you just make your situation more difficult by reading posts of the fellow sufferers. On one hand, it carries some truth to it, but where you could be heard, get advice and share other than those sites?
March 27, 2013 at 5:31 pm
I haven’t been able to find a really good explanation of the head pressure. It feels like wearing a hat two sizes too small all the time, or a headache, or just fogginess. My guess is that it’s part of the over sensitivity that accompanies withdrawal combined with vascular changes. SSRI constrict blood vessels throughout the body. It’s like a rubber band snapping back to its normal size after being stretched. The vessels are going to oscillate between too small and too large, which causes pain and pressure.
Most of the people who have had catscans or magnetic imaging done have not found any problems. It’s puzzling to me that such profound symptoms do not show up in any way in blood or imaging tests. Surely there has to be some kind of visual evidence of something that affects us so deeply?
Having other people give blithe advice about ‘sucking it up’ and ‘get over it’ really frustrates me. Even with little outward sign of distress, surely people can understand what an emotional crisis is like and have some compassion. I’ve decided that I will never again tell anyone to just get over it, no matter how trivial the problem may seem to me. Who knows how powerful it is for them. I know that I only found understanding from other people who had experienced withdrawal and people who saw it in their daily lives. One of my friends is a substance abuse counselor. He recognized my symptoms from his work with drug addicts. That really drove home how serious SSRI withdrawal can be. Here’s hoping that you feel better soon.
March 27, 2013 at 6:33 pm
Jane
I had an MRI last year and npanth is right! They found nothing abnormal with my brain. They did say they saw fluid in my sinuses. They gave me antibiotics. I know believe it wasn’t a sinus infection and just withdrawl. I also had a CAT Scan earlier in the year and they said the same thing. I’ve never had a sinus infection before in my life. I also never had massive chronic head aches. If I believe what three doctors said in a span of six months I had five sinus infections. I think NOT.
The head pressure and massive headaches really sucks bad. I believe the chronic head pain and pressure leads to depersonalization because your brain is just fogged literally 24/7 and it just becomes normal. Aspirin only occasionally works for me.
March 28, 2013 at 4:19 am
hey guys, i hope you are all surviving this hell we are in. Dano, I totally understand hw you are feeling, 100%, I too have a holiday coming up in 7 weeks and i just dont want to go, i want to want to go and when im well i will love going but when we feel like this the thought of being out of our comfort zone is just horrible. But you will do it Dano and you will find times when you are actually enjoying it. I saw a new psychtrist this week I am now seeing weekley and he was adamant that withdrarawl is real, but the fastest way to get thrugh it is to face all your fears and do the things that you avoid doin, so for example I cancelled dinner with friends last friday as I felt so bad, my psychtrist is telling me that I cant cancel those things, it is the hardest thing i will ever have to do (and it is) but I have to make myself do everything in the knowledge that even if i feel shocking at the time it will pass, as a car runs out of pertrol, our bodys run out of neorons to create those bad feelings, because of withdrarawl we might have more of those freaky neurons than normal people but eventually they run out of steam and thats when we have a window, when the gas has run out. I kind of feel like i am being treated to overcome depression and anxiety but that is fine because that is what withdrarawl has done to me and i need to do something more than just sit and wait for time to pass to repair, I have to be able to do something to know i am helping it go. I think seeing someone everyweek will really help too. And funnily enough dano, he said I have to have goals and he said my goal absolutley has to be that I go on that holiday in 7 weeks ( i almost cired when he said that as I am so scared of going), when I am more than happy to not go and to loose the money, I would prefer that than be on holiday feeling bad but Im hoping if i continue to push myself to do things then i will start overcoming these feelings, who knows if it it is a coincedense but last night I slept the whole night through, its a miracle, first time in months. I had a manageable day monday to the point my husband said i seemed myself, had very long hard hard withdrarawl day tuesday, and then yesterday again was more manageable. But I am in a constant state of fear waiting for a bad wave again. It is so horrible. Jay I am glad you are back and still sticking to your guns, jane i hope you have had some respite and dano let us know how great your holiday is because you will enjoy it, and finally napanth as always thanks for all advice, wish me luck with facing my challenges. I am going out for dinner friday night shock horror and making myself go round my sisters today which I hate doing when I feel bad but absolutley am forcing myself to do it!!!! god sooooo hard! x
March 28, 2013 at 5:57 pm
I’m of two minds about that advice. On the one hand, I do think that it’s important to push ourselves during withdrawal. An envelope that is never stretched will begin to contract eventually.
On the other hand, it is possible to push yourself too hard, sometimes. Thinking withdrawal away doesn’t make it vanish. Blindly pushing yourself into stressful situations reminds me of the ‘just get over it’ and ‘its all in your head’ advice that people give when they don’t understand how withdrawal works. That’s not to say that your psychiatrist doesn’t understand withdrawal. I found that I needed to stretch my comfort zone during the worst of withdrawal, but I didn’t feel like I needed to push through a wave when it got really bad.
March 30, 2013 at 7:15 am
hi guys, boy this is hard, my days are so up and down, one day or morining I want to be medicated to get out of the pain and suffering and then the next I feel pretty ok, yesterday day was horrible, felt on the edge of going insane all day just wanted to be turned off until the suffering had passed, I then made myself go to a friends for dinner and when i got there i felt bad (it was the challenge i had set myself) i got through it and ended up having a nice evening, but today i feel no sense of achievement, then i wake up at 5am so anxious that i throw up but now feel ok again just scared of feeling bad again and like i am trying to bat it off all the time, a constatnt fight, i wish i just could get on without the fear, Jay I absolutley totatally 100% understand your fear and scared feelings, but in all the books I have on withdrarawl and the helplines that I have spoken , that is how itr is we have to get through that scared period, and it is petrifiying. I had a funny thought about you Jay that one day when I am better and me and my husband have kids we plan to take them to the usa, i imagined we will look you up and we will all be better and can celebrate. Today I am trying affirmations of i will get better, i am getting better, i will have a great life, my nervous system is recovering. And Npath I agree with what you say about pushing yourself, I can see why the psychtrist is telling me to do ot otherwise i am letting withdrarawl win, but at the same time i understand that you have to be gentle on yourself, his theoy is if i am scared of being in traffic (never had that before) if i expose myself to it that it will then beciome second nature and i wont even think about it, anwyway as a friend said to me if I am prepared to take drugs ( which i have said a lot recentley i will if it doesnt get better) then i should be prepared to try what the psychtrist is telling me to try and not to too set myself too long a timelines, like try what he says for 6 weeks, seeing him every week in those 6 weeks (which is something i have never done before) and see what happens, he isnt telling me he can cure the withdrarawl but what he is trying to do is help me manage the horrible symptoms. keep encouraging me people i need to get through this as we all do!!!! anyway people 365 days off drugs today, hopefully the change will be soon, it truley cannot get any worse, that would be impossible so the only way is up!! x
irrationaly scare me lik
March 31, 2013 at 7:33 am
I tried to push myself at the bottom. There were some times when I pushed too hard. They weren’t permanent setbacks, but I definitely made it harder on myself at times. I kept thinking that I could force withdrawal to get better.
It’s a two sided thing. Push too hard, and you get setback. Push too little and you get stagnation. It took a long time to find a good balance. Being calm after you’ve pushed too hard feels like you’re giving up on proactive recovery. It’s the best way to get back on track though. Then you have to overcome the inertia of that calm period to start pushing yourself again.
Like you’ve said, it’s very hard to tell exactly how you’re doing because the symptoms change so much. You may feel up to going out in the morning, but that changes over the course of the day.
All we can do is our best, I guess. Hang in there.
March 31, 2013 at 9:26 am
emma I am so touched by what you said, nothing would make me happier than to meet you and your husband and maybe your children someday,I’ve never been to the UK and my wife keeps telling me we should go,but I feel right now that I can not handle such a long flight let alone leave the country.
But ,I do like the idea that maybe we were meant to meet,the future hasn’t been written and i hope that you get well enough to start that family,you never know I just might jump on that plane,but I wouldn’t know where to look for you.
If you do decide in the future to come to the states let me know, I will give you my address, my door is always open to you and anybody here who would like to meet.
get better soon.
Jay
April 1, 2013 at 11:20 am
So today I believe I have had my worst episode to date, I was so anxious I felt like I needed a shot like a rabid animal to calm me down, I was so close to getting my husband to take me to hospital so they could sedate me, I went to bed to try to meditate but was too agitated and then tried to sleep but the second I nodded off the anxiety and fear startled me awake, I have calmed down a bit and am thinking a bit more rationally, I managed to nod off an everyday time I woke anxious I told myself to calm down, it will pass, I am hoping this awful bit just came on because of sleep deprivation, I have had to work till 1am in the morning this weekend and be back there at 6 am which has meant being up at 4 am and in bed by 3am. I am also think all this pushing myself to do everything is taking its toll, but I know wherever I am, work, friends or home I will still get the horrible times, this episode has scared the life out of me, I don’t understand how it can be sooooo bad a year after no drugs why have I seen no improvement and got worse in 12 months rather than better, there is no improvement at all, I see my new psychtrist tomorrow for the second time, I hope to god he can help me, I am going to ask him about reinstating, I can’t go through what I have just gone through again, I don’t think I would survive if I was on my own, fortunately my husband is in the house, although he didn’t seem to concerned, he told me to sit down and relax, if only it was that easy. When will this be over? I have run out of hope and steam to fight X
April 1, 2013 at 5:38 pm
Whenever you’re trying something new, there is always a transition period. You’re trying to push yourself in new directions, and that is going to cause more stress, at least in the beginning. One thing to keep in mind is that it’s ok to pull back a bit if you feel like you’re becoming overwhelmed. As strange as it sounds, you want to keep the balance a bit on the uncomfortable side, just not all the way over to the panic side… Or all the way over on the comfortable side.
At first, going to the market was pushing myself. Today, I coddled a customer who said that the Internet service I hooked up for him wasn’t running as fast as it should… Despite his own test saying that it was. A year ago, I would have gotten mad, or acted out in some other inappropriate way. That’s a long way from hiding in the organic section because the alternative was running a rude shopper over with my cart.
Take it in small steps and you’ll get there, eventually. Pulling a defacto all nighter and going back in the next day is enough stretching for one day :). Go easy on yourself.
April 3, 2013 at 1:29 pm
hi guys, so I just asked my husband if he thinks I am the worst I have ever been and unfortunatlet he said yes, i am gutted, i was hoping I had been worse but i know in my heart of hearts I am at the bottom. He said he thinks that though because I have never before been scared to be alone and for the last 10 weeks I freak out at the the thought of being alone, I have actually asked him to stop going away with work overnight. Today has been sooo bad and it has been constatnt, on the advice of my new shrink I am supposed to tell myself the bad feeling will pass and normally it does after a few hours but today it has been constant, there is no glimmer of hope for me. My shrink told me he has a 100% success rate of getting people through this weather it is anxiety, depression DR and DP from withdrarawl or just from being there, the treatment I am following with him is the cure with time, so the cure is for me to face my fears, so if i am scared to be alone then be alone, if i am anxious about going to work then go to work and dont avoid, so I have continued to do all things, the other advice along with this is that I need to just let the bad happen and accept it knowing it will pass, now all the books I have read on withdrarawl say exactley this and i see it as sound advice but no matter how hard I try I cant do it, I will say to myself just let it happen but when the bad feelings are happening I want them to go so bad I try and fight it. If smeone has the golden answer of how to accept it please let me know, also on top of this I am supposed to try and not obsess about feeling bad again when I feel alright, again I find this impossible, I totally see the logic in it but when I feel so bad I am jusy so scared of it happening again, he said observe my thoughts that I am thinking about feeling bad and then move on, i just cant do it, then i freak out that i cant change my thoughts, today has just been a vicious cycle and i have tried sooooo hard to follow the advice. I gave my husband an example today, his day was bad, our car broke down and will be expensive, he had a bad day at work and he has too see me in such a bad way, I then said to him now see the positive, I bet you cant, and i said that is how hard it is for me not to focus on feeling bad, its impossible when you feel so bad. I belive I am worse than when I tapered and I have never said that before. I asked the shrink about drugs as I would absolutley take them again if it made me better as i feel that bad and he said that his method will cure me if i just keep doing it, and because of that i dont need the drugs and that i only want the drugs because they would be a quick fix, and he is right i am desperate for a quick fix, how much can one human being take. I have read through my old posts and there has been no improvement for months and months and it is getting worse, how can it get worse after 1 year off, surely i should be seeing small improvements, and i even think the brain fog is back a bit because the insane feeling i get in my head is like the brain fog. If someone gave me a drug right now i would take it, knowing that drug had got me here in the first place i would still take it!! Also my shrink has said that I have to see the achievement I amke each day in getting through, so the fact that I have got through today an awful day i should see as a great thing but all i can think is oh god please dont let me feel like that again, I get no sense of ahievement from getting through anything, everyday is like groundhog day, reliving the pain. I will continue to put my all into accepting my feelings and getting through them but my god this is the hardest thing ever x
April 3, 2013 at 6:26 pm
I think that SSRI withdrawal is as much physical as mental at some points. Those repetitive thoughts are caused by withdrawal, not a failure to deal with them. Not entirely, at least. It’s like a record/CD that is caught on a scratch. Thoughts just repeat over and over again.
Most of the coping strategies, envisioning success, accepting bad thoughts, etc work much better when you’re past the bottom and can recognize that you’re making progress.
At this stage of withdrawal, the biggest challenge is getting through it until you can effectively apply mindfulness and other coping strategies.
Hang in there. I’ve been in the same spot, where it doesn’t seem like anything can improve. I thought that the bottom would extend on forever. Who knows, even get worse. I turned the corner, though, and once I started to improve, it snowballed. Now, I’m at the point that I’m fine tuning my mind, working on social interactions and articulation. Don’t feel jealous, or that it will never happen for you, because it will.
The only saving grace is that it will happen because it’s a physical change, a rebalancing of neurotransmitters, that will cause it to happen. Try to be ready for it when it does start to get better. I feel so bad that you’re suffering like this. I see myself in what you say, and I wish I could send you my experience over the last year to reassure you that it will get better. Writing it, even saying it, doesn’t seem sufficient.
April 4, 2013 at 3:49 am
you have hit it spot on npanth, when i am feeling ok it is much easier to do all the coping mechanisms, exercise, mindfulness and change my thinking pattern but when I am deep in it it is impossible. I hope what you say is true, I know it will get better but i really thought after a year i would be sooo much closer than this, I am working from home today and am alone in the house and dont have the car as it is broken down so this morning i was petrifeid that I was stuck at my house, I had to text my sister and asked her to be on call if i had a freak out, i know i wont have to call her, i never do use my back up plans but i feel better knowing she knows i am scared, it is so irrational, i have never in my life been scared of being alone, its not the lonliness that scares me its the worry that i will have a bad episode, feel insane or extreme anxiety and i dont want to be on my own when that happens, I need to convince myself that I may never have a freak out again but instead i am sitting here waiting for it to happen so actually making the cycle myself,, anyway look i will get better and each day as painful as it is i am still here i would swap the psychological for physical though anyday of the week. As i said to my family yesterday though i never had any of these crazey feelings, fear, doom DR DP until i started taking the drugs so it has to be the drugs doesnt it??? the only pre exisiting thing i had was anxiety, nothing else Npanth my question to you isis did your feeling of withdrarawl that you have said are the same as mine go because you reinstated?? because if that was the case then it might not happen for me as i havent reinstated x
April 4, 2013 at 5:19 pm
emma, I’m so sorry your having such a tough time,i reinstated and it was the worse decision I have ever made,I was going on 5 months Luvox free and suffering the worse GI problems you could imagine,reinstating helped for about a week and then I got hit with the worse sxs/wd combo that made me wish for the GI problems again,well I got my wish ,I now have both.I would not have reinstated if I had known I was going to go through what I’m going through now.
I would be 10 months off the Luvox had i not reinstated,this is not to say that I wouldn’t have gotten the sxs I have now,but i will never know because of it. You are just like me, we have anticipatory anxiety,we are waiting for the next thing to go wrong,and we dwell on it,when I see my psych on the 8th, I going to tell her i want to learn how to cope with the extreme anxiety I get ,that just comes from out of now where,I am scared too, but I force my self everyday to go to work and and every night when I get home ,I try to keep busy,but this isn’t always the case,and when I have time to think,that is when anxiety hit’s me,I too tell my self i’m fine but it really doesn’t mean much when we tell ourselves that,we need reinsurance from someone else and unfortunately ,it s a Dr.we want it from ,or a test that says were all right,my wife says I need faith and because I don’t have that,I will never get better,so that is what I’m going to have my psych teach me,some how I have got to trust myself,it gonna be hard ,but I’m going to have to learn.
I hope you can find the path to wellness,I’m trying my best and to tell you the truth,if there was some sort of drug that would give me a better quality of life,i would take it,but we all know that’s not going to happen.
I hope you get better,because i was discussing with my wife that I wanted to meet you and your husband and she got all excited,does this mean were going to England, I said I would like to and she started planning a vacation,I had to cool her down a little bit,I said I will let you know when I’m ready,so emma get better ,I really would like to see the UK and visit my ancestors/family in Ireland .
Jay
April 4, 2013 at 6:24 pm
I’m sorry I advised you to try reinstating, Jay. It seemed like the best course of action at the time. Reinstatement is a crap shoot. On paxilprogress.org I’ve talked to several people who have reinstated. It’s worked for some, but not for others. I had to plow through a bunch of symptoms to get stable when I reinstated. I was hoping it would help with your symptoms. I didn’t intend to compound your problem. Hopefully, the new symptoms will be short lived. I hope you feel better soon.
April 4, 2013 at 7:50 pm
npanth,it’s not your fault and i don’t blame you.It was actually my GI Dr. that pushed me to reinstate,he said if the symptoms go away you know it’s withdrawal,well they did,but it brought on what I am going through right now,so it’s just as much my fault as it was my DR.,he did prove a point,it was definitely SSRI withdrawal,and I think the the fast taper off the luvox the second time was worse than the CT i did last Aug.I can see a difference in how I felt last year as compared to this year,I seem to have very short windows followed by long waves,I got up to check the site because I was getting that moving while sitting and the elevator drop sensation.I din’t feel so bad when i got up,but it went down hill by noon time and now I’m having all kinds of sensations,the other problem I have is,I’m still on X and that is playing a big part in my ability to handle w/d,I personally think that it is making it worse,X can cause and manifest the symptoms it’s supposed to relive,so i have a double edge sword working,I’ve reached tolerance and also having rebound anxiety,any deviation from my schedule and my mind lets me know it doesn’t like it and lets me know fast,so I have to take the X every day at the same time or i risk rebound anxiety, unfortunately it causes sxs too,so I’m caught in a vicious cycle right now.
I just hope that it plays out and i find some relief soon, that’s all I can do for now.
Jay
April 5, 2013 at 5:57 am
Me too. I had a couple of short term setbacks that complicated withdrawal. I can imagine those extending out. I hope it stabilizes soon.
The dizziness is very hard to deal with. I’d never gotten dizzy sitting or lying down. That constant vertigo makes life very hard. I hope it straightens out soon for you.
April 5, 2013 at 2:45 pm
Hey jay, thanks for your concern, it is so hard, and to top it off today my new shrink who I see each week has told me I have to embrace the bad, so instead of fighting the anxiety, doom and fear like I do every day I have to embrace it and feel it, which is logical as if you are afraid of spiders you need to sit there holding spiders, I totally understand it but I hate it, as the worst thing in the world to me is the feeling bad but it won’t get better until I become one with it and then it will just become background noise. And to top it off in have to make myself feel bad (which I can totally do) for 4 hours on Saturday and Sundays, I guess it’s just exposure isn’t it, in the long run it will stop me being constantly in fear of the bad feelings coming on. I am going to do it as all the withdrarwl literature I have read says that you shouldn’t fight the feelings just go with them so that could be where lm going wrong. So wish me luck with letting it all just role over me, also the shrink was very pleased with everything I made myself do!! I just have to keep going, so no drugs or reinstament for me, but although I will do everything he tells me to do (I’ve done it this week and I’m still alive) I do hope and pray every night that I will wake up and I will see recovery, he also said as all the books say I need to see feeling bad as getting better, so hard to keep going, and finally I need to get living instead of putting my goals off until I get better,I need to start going for them now, stop putting stuff off which I 100 percent do, I am guilty of always saying when I am better, everything makes sense, i just hope time will heal quicker than this therapy, so jay you have said you want to be treated for the anxiety, that is exactly what I am being treated for, anxiety, fear, depression and doom. And to finish off jay let’s make one of our goals eventually meeting, it would be great, where Abouts in the states Are you? I lived in Virginia for 5 years when I was young. And npanth great writing today on your top blog, it pretty much falls in line with what I am being told to do and what is happening to us, as I said I hope time heals me quicker than the therapy but I have to get on living, big hugs to you both and thanks for support x
April 5, 2013 at 8:27 pm
emma, I hope that this embracing your fears works out for you,if it does i will have to try it myself.
I live in Milford Ct. it’s a real bad state to be in right now,gun violence and taxes are out of hand,my wife and I have been looking at houses in Rhode Island ,I love to fish and where we are looking is Narragansett.
in 3 yrs when I retire , I hope ,we are going to sell our house and move up there.
I t would make me very happy to make a commitment right here and now to meet you,I think we need to stabilize first and make a date as to when,I have no qualms about jumping on a plane and going to the UK,where abouts are you.?
I would love to google earth your location.
let me know and here’s to better days.
jay
April 6, 2013 at 6:19 am
It was our discussion here that started me thinking about the boundaries of recovery and what role “bunker mode” and forcing social interactions plays in it. Thanks
April 4, 2013 at 5:49 pm
I had very similar thoughts. Surely, this has to be some part of my personality that Paxil was suppressing. Somehow, I developed a severe anxiety disorder, psychosis, and depression, which came to the surface when I quit Paxil.
Nope
If that were the case, those symptoms would have gotten worse as my dose went down regardless of how fast I did it. Instead, I’ve been steadily improving over the past year, even as my dose goes down. My cognition, self awareness, social interactions are all improving all the time, and they keep getting better the lower my dose gets.
I think the reason that it feels like the emergence of a new disorder is that the drug affects our perception, not only of ourselves, but those around us. That colors every perception and thought. It makes it hard to realize where those symptoms come from.
April 4, 2013 at 5:55 pm
I am worried because I stopped taking SRRI six months ago, and maybe I was too fast stopping them. I encountered many side effects, but I though that time could mitigate them. Indeed now all effects are weaker, but I still have a mental confusion and I feel like my mind is “choking”, not finding things, not able to think well. This effect now isn’t too severe but I started to worry. I discovered that if I walk or make sport, the effect increase while I move, but it decreases after I finish moving and I feel better. Doing sport should produce more serotonin and make me feel worse, but surprisingly it has the opposite effect. I also can fall in anger very easily. The good new is that I feel no anxiety, and that I am of good mood except when I fall in anger.
April 4, 2013 at 6:33 pm
Those are all very common SSRI withdrawal symptoms. Anger was one of the worst for me. It wasn’t the most debilitating, but it was the one symptom that was most likely to be translated into action against others. Try your best not to act on that anger, but don’t beat yourself up too much if you slip. That anger is driven by withdrawal, not a failing on your part. It should pass in time. It was a huge relief when it went away for me.
That cognitive “mud” feeling is very common, too. It’s like you’re thinking through a wet blanket. That’s going away for me, now, too. Try to make note of progress when it happens, no matter how trivial it seems. This little victories will snowball into bigger ones. Eventually, recovery takes on a life of its own, and that a great time. The tough part is getting through this period where it’s all pushing down on you at once. Hang in there.
April 5, 2013 at 10:42 am
Well thank you for that reply, I was very worried and I thought to be the only one having that symptoms. Fortunately I can handle all symptoms and have a normal life, even if difficultly. How much time ago did you stop with SRRI ?
April 5, 2013 at 5:07 pm
I’m still tapering. I’m down to 5mg/day. It will be sometime later this year before I get completely off Paxil. I felt like you, that I must be somehow unique in having withdrawal. With my doctor telling me it was some new problem, and the company literature saying that withdrawal couldn’t last more than 6 weeks, it couldn’t be withdrawal. The more I read about it, the more I realized that many people have problems getting off SSRI.
At first, I was very angry at my doctor, the pharmaceutical companies, the regulators. I thought they were just interested in making profits from my pain. I still think their primary motivation is the bottom line, but it’s an imbalance in their business model, not an evil plot. Pharma companies have two mandates: maintain a profitable business, and produce effective medications while minimizing side effects and addiction. The balance has shifted too far in favor of marketing and business. It will eventually have to find a new balance where the problems with the drugs are recognized, and serious efforts are undertaken to address those problems.
April 9, 2013 at 8:12 am
In my country no psychiatrist that I met was aware about withdrawal syndrome. They all told me that the symptoms could endure three months maximum, and that my symptoms were just a relapse of my depression, but I am fine. They seem to live in another world.
April 9, 2013 at 7:40 pm
Despite having my entire history of mild social anxiety, my doctor actually tried to convince me that I had a latent psychosis that was only becoming apparent because I stopped taking Paxil. His only solution to withdrawal was a new prescription. I had to become medically non compliant to get off Paxil.
If his diagnosis was correct, those symptoms would have increased as my dose of Paxil went down. Instead, I’ve been steadily improving the less I take. I think doctors have a lot to learn about the drugs they prescribe.
April 5, 2013 at 2:15 pm
I have been thinking about tapering off the Lexapro I’ve been taking for the last 5 years (Paxil for 6 before that) for generalized anxiety disorder. I know that I will probably suffer some negative effects of tapering off, but that isn’t what concerns me most. I’m most concerned that my anxiety disorder will spiral out of control (the worst being confusion and racing thoughts) even after I’ve recovered from the withdrawal. Has anyone had this problem? I don’t want to go through the trauma of withdrawal only to have to go back on the meds and then deal with the side-effects of beginning all over again. Any advice would be appreciated.
April 5, 2013 at 5:22 pm
It’s hard to differentiate an anxiety disorder from SSRI withdrawal. One of the primary symptoms of withdrawal is increased anxiety.
The best away to minimize it is to taper slowly, very slowly. Lower your dose by 10% of your previous dose every 4-6 weeks. IE 10mg/day, 9.1mg/day, 8.2mg/day, 7.4mg/day, etc. it’s a diminishing scale. It’s the change in dose that drives symptoms more than the overall dose. Eventually, you’ll get under 1mg/day, and you can make that last leap off the drug.
There are a couple things that you can do to deal with the anxiety. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy is a promising technique for dealing with anxiety. It would be hard to describe it all here, but in essence, it’s a technique of staying mindful of your mental state and trying to modify your reactions to emotional triggers.
You can also begin a new drug after your taper if you feel it’s necessary. It’s usually better to taper between drug treatments, anyway.
I found that the social anxiety that originally prompted me to start taking Paxil had largely dissipated over the course of my treatment. I didn’t realize it until I started tapering, though. That’s one of the strange ironies of SSRI. Sometimes, they keep you in a kind of emotional stasis. The symptoms of anxiety stay largely the same, even if the underlying condition has changed over the years of drug use.
You can get more information about mindfulness, Cognitive Behavioral Treatment, tapering, and withdrawal symptoms at http://www.paxilprogress.org and http://www.survivingantidepressants.org
Good luck. I hope your taper goes smoothly.
April 7, 2013 at 4:40 am
Hey jay I live in a place called petersfield in Hampshire, out in the country, have a look at it. I embraced the feeling bad yesterday and sat in a room with no distraction for two hours feeling bad and I had best sleep in ages, maybe it will work x
April 7, 2013 at 1:17 pm
Well we made it back safe and sound and had a great time for the most part. Disney sure knows how to treat people right. Anticipation anxiety is definetely a force to be reconned with. I’m certain that I made myself feel really bad prior to going on this trip. The flight started out really bad for me with massive anxiety. After we got up to cruising altitude I started to settle down with breathing and the air blowing wide open on my face. I just put my hat over my eyes and tried to nap; yeah sure. As soon as I realized we were dropping in altitude and getting ready to land I started to feel better. We landed and off to the busses headed to the ship. Everything worked out perfectly unexpectedly. Before I new it we were setting sail. We spent four days stopping twice. One of the stops was Disneys private island. Very nice place.
I had created bad scenarios that could happen on every aspect of this trip in my mind prior to going. My family and Disney kept me so occupied I had little time to think about my condition. It was still there at times that’s for sure but very limited. Believe it or not you can find quiet places on a ship with 4,000 people on it. It was time to get off the ship and fly home. I only had a very slight amount of anxiety this time. We got our bags and headed back home. Emma; talk about facing my fears, well I definetely did that.
Within 10 minutes of driving I began to get the feeling of depersonalization again. Talk about frustrating. I just had four great days and then bam it’s back. Since then I seem to have fallen back into shitville. I was so hopefull this great feeling would last. If anything it showed me I can have pretty good days. It must have something to do with reality and daily life that I don’t know yet how to deal with totally yet without meds.
April 7, 2013 at 2:13 pm
I’m glad the cruise worked out for you, Dano. I found this great little bar next to a lounge to hang out on one cruise I took. What a great spot. I spent a couple hours there every day. I just drank sodas, but I was always the only person there. It was next to one of the main corridors, but still a quiet spot.
Just having a good experience can help in the future, even if it doesn’t feel like that at first. Getting back to “normal” life is a let down for a lot of people after a cruise. You may get back to an equilibrium in a bit. The next window you get should be better because you had a good time. Hang in there.
April 7, 2013 at 10:02 pm
emma, wow what a beautiful place,I was able to use street view and I can’t get over all the trees.
I took the tour and was amazed at the country side.I definitely want to go there.
I have been having some really weird stuff going on,I woke up Saturday morning and I noticed that my left ear was ringing out of my head,I usually get it in both ears but , it stayed with me till i went to sleep,Sunday I wake up and now it’s on the right side ,I can’t win.I have a bad cold and can’t seem to shake it,I have been coughing and hacking a lot of stuff up,and my allergies have kicked in.
I ‘m still struggling with vertigo and I think being sick is making it worse
I see my psych tomorrow and I’m going to talk to her about this vertigo thing,it’s really starting to get to me and I am trying hard not to think about it,but it just rears it’s ugly head to often for me to ignore it.
I’m sure its W/d but I’m getting anxious thinking it’s something else,all part of the w/d scenario I guess.
I had one day last week where I felt human,but it didn’t take long to crash.
It’s frustrating when that happens,I get my hopes up that this might be the breaking point and bam! right back on the
crap wagon.
Dano,glad you had a good time,I think that after having such a good time and then having to come back to same routine would make a normal person depressed.
I find my self anxious a lot more these days and I know it’s w/d because I really have nothing to be anxious about.
Funny how things I use to let slide get’s me all revved up over nothing,
I find myself very argumentative these days and I think it’s going to get me in trouble,I had a Teacher at one of the schools I manage comment about how great a computer wiz I was,(ha that’s funny) but i was very abrupt.
I’m gonna have to learn real quick to cool my heals or I could lose my job,boy is this W/D causing me more than just symptoms and stress.
Well I said enough,I hope with the coming summer that I can get myself a good window,I’m tired of this wave train.
Good health everybody,and lots of windows.
Jay
April 9, 2013 at 6:37 pm
That short temper is very common in withdrawal. I had several months where I was very moody, even angry, at everyone. People being friendly just reminded me how crabby I felt. It fades away, eventually, but it’s variable, like anger itself. I think that withdrawal doesn’t directly cause anger as much as lower our tolerance for stress. Once the over stressing starts to fade away, the anger does, too. Try your best not to act on the way you feel, but remember that is being driven at a primal level. It’s very hard to control sometimes. Don’t let a slip up mushroom into a spiral of self recrimination.
I ran into an old friend at the market once when I was in the anger phase. She innocently asked me how I was. “Bad, real bad” and I walked away. It bothered me for a long time that I had been so short with her. I ran into her again a few months later and apologized. It took that long for me to forgive myself for that one outburst. Try not to let it drag you down if you can.
April 7, 2013 at 3:04 pm
Dano I am so pleased for you that most of the time was good for you! I was only thinking today how you might have got on. I think that feeling bad on getting back is almost the same as going, anticipation anxieties, anticipation of falling back into where you were before you went,I get that all the time, the fear of slipping back and I guess that’s the waves and windows. I have done my sitting and making myself feel bad and I don’t really know how I feel about it, I proved to myself I can sit through the horrible feelings but I am still petrified of feeling bad, early days though I guess, everyday I hope the next will be the day I feel I am on the road to recovery, after 12 months I hope to see some improvement soon x
April 10, 2013 at 12:53 am
So I have been avoiding it but I think the brain fog/head pressure/aware of brain in head is back, I managed to loose it for 3 months but it is definitely back. Is it possible for symptoms to go an come back, I have read in the recovery and renewal book that it is completely normal but it is so frustrating as I was clinging on to that as a sign I was getting better. I have it pretty much every other day, I either have anxiety or the brain clutters feeling. I must say I would rather have anxiety as the brain feeling is the one that makes me feel like I am going to go insane, it’s like if this feeling continues my head will just shut off or my brain will explode. I hate it. Do you think this is temporary. Why oh why do I feel like it is just getting worse and worse. Monday was a pretty ok day, manageable, Tuesday was horrible but I got through, and this morning I have woken up with brain fog. I always wake up with one of three things, either the brain thing, or racing heart or doom and incredible physical lowness. I am trying to think of the brain thing as a headache rather than bad head, my shrink has said that all these bad feelings should eventually be like a headache that I would hardly give any though, so when it comes on I try and think of there is that annoying head ache never mind, hard to do when you feel like you may go insane . I just want this all to be over now, I am pooped from no sleep, every day is the fight of my life, maybe once a week I have an easier day, I have completely and utterly lost all hope,I can no longer think just get through this and I will be better one day. I cannot see an end. I pray for the day when I am someone who comes on here and says that’s it I am healed, but I don’t believe it, I don’t believe the shrink can get me better even though he says he has a 100 percent cure rate and I also don’t believe that time will make me better. I just want a normal life back, it’s been years and years since I have been in a good place, this really bad has been almost 2 years with the tapering, then swapping and then nothing. I have kind of stopped counting how long I have been off drugs now as itis irrelevant as I am getting no better, I used to count up towards a year as I thought a year would be the miracle turning point but it wasn’t, it was more the turning point of getting worse. I have noticed that I am not scared of traffic anymore. As I am writing this I am so tired I could drop off but the minute I do I get startled awake with racing heart ! I will fight another day only because there is absolutely no other option, as they say the only way out is through, but althought I am going through I don’t believe it will lead to a way out, what doyoumdomwhen you loose all faith in recovery x
April 10, 2013 at 6:28 pm
Hang in there Jay. I had a long time where it looked like withdrawal would become my new normal. The symptoms changed, but the level of pain didn’t. My symptoms followed a similar pattern. One day, it was anxiety, the next it was pounding heartbeat, then on to cognition problems. It does eventually settle down. I still get the same symptoms, but they are much more manageable and short lived. I had a couple days over the past weekend that I would call a wave, but it didn’t keep me from doing things like it would have last year. It faded away after a couple days, too. Today, it’s just a bit of heightened frustration.
You’ll get to that point, too. There’s nothing special about me, believe me. I was driven by anxiety for a long time, I don’t have special anti anxiety powers. You’ve shown tremendous resiliency the whole time I’ve known you, even if it doesn’t seem like it to you right now.
The upside of recovering is that it gives you a unique perspective into your own strength. When I look back at what I went through, it’s amazing how much stronger I am than I thought. You are, too 🙂
April 10, 2013 at 6:01 am
I am working from home today and it is excrutiating, over the last 3 weeks I have developed a new thing and when I feel really bad I shake like I am cold, I am sat her shaking, for 10 minutes I can feel ok and then bam 10 minutes later i feel at the absolute bottom again, today is the feeling of so so low feel like i want to swithch off forever, dont worry I would never do anything but i just dont think I can take much more, it is the worst, I have been trying to tell mysekf to accept today but it is soooooooo hard, I have been following the following mantra …..”okay here we go again…. its back..ah well at least i know what it is, this is not new, it feels like im petrfied but I am not really, wow look how shaky I am, I dont need to run away or collapse, I know what it is and it will soon pass, just sit here,” and that is what I am doing but it doesnt make it any leass horrible. When recovery happens will I just wake eup one morning and think ok I feel like I am getting better?? God I hope so, I feel like I am going to die even though I know I am not. 6 months ago I used to be able to fall back on the thought that no matter how bad I feel in the day I always felt better at night but these days I can feel awful as I try to go to sleep there is no resptite most evenings, I used to be able to lay my head on the pillow at night time and be grateful for sleep, now these days I can freak out at bedtime, last night when I was laying down to bed to go to sleep i felt awful it is now like every minute of my day is consumed, yet Monday only 48 hours ago I felt so well, my waves and windows are minute to minute, does anyone know anyone who has had it this bad and got better x
April 10, 2013 at 6:36 pm
I had a similar experience. One day I was curled up on the living room floor, only able to eat a couple crackers each day, the next, I felt good enough to go out. Little by little, the good times got longer, and the bad times got shorter. I’d have a couple good days in a row, then a bad day. Eventually, it got to the point I’m at now. I have more good days than bad, and the bad days aren’t bad enough to keep me from living. Looking at it now, I can see that it will eventually be like an allergy or something. A mental stuffy nose that I can almost dismiss.
Hang in there. You’ll read these comments in the future and marvel at how far you’ve come. I know that sounds like pie-in-the-sky kind of talk. I dismissed similar things when I was feeling like you do. That Disney crap is just platitudes that don’t mean anything to real people. It’s true, though. The hardest part is getting past the debilitating symptoms. I truly hope you feel better soon. We don’t deserve to feel like this.
April 10, 2013 at 6:08 pm
emma,I’m so sorry that you are suffering so badly,I wish i could help you.
Telling you to hang in there ,are just words,I want you to know that i think of you and other people who are
suffering this nightmare called withdrawal.
Please believe me that it will get better.
I have copied a post from another board and it’s something everyone should read,I hope you get some comfort from reading this,I did and it gives me strength to keep going forward.
Jay
This will hopefully be an encouraging email to make you feel SAFE and ENCOURAGED.
As some of you may know, my degrees are in speech-language pathology (B.A and M.S.)
As part of my Masters study, a big portion of my classes were in neuroanatomy and physiology.
I learned firsthand how to look at a person who had just undergone a stroke or brain injury and read the symptoms, the radiology reports, the doctor’s notes, and based on those symptoms, to form an image in my mind of what was affected in the brain injury – as well as how to formulate a treatment plan to help that person rehabilitate. For a therapist in a hospital, it is much more than “speech and language”. It is about reteaching how to swallow, eat, rebuilding memory, rebuilding concentation and attention, rebuilding focus, rebuilding executive functioning skills (planning and acting on a plan) -pretty much ANYTHING that is involved in “thinking” that helps you get OUT of a coma, OUT of a hospital, and back to life, work, and school.
I had NO idea I would ever personally undergo a brain injury. But insomuch as I have now indeed endured one, I often laid there in waves and attempted to “analyze and decipher” what was happening in my brain as I healed. I thought you all might like to read this. It gives potential answers to all the “WHY?” questions we have about what is happening to us mentally.
First of all, a TRUTH to accept is that WE HEAL. I have seen people emerge from comas who cannot remember who they are – HEAL.
They can’t remember how to walk (we do).
They can’t write their names (we can).
They cannot tell you the year or the president (I was SO bad I was unsure of this at times, but generally, I was oriented to this).
They often cannot remember family members (we can -our D/R can be hideous, but we remember them).
THEY have to work through many hours of therapy to heal. But most of them do – and from TRAUMATIC PHYSICAL brain trauma that can tear tissue and tear nerves.
We have none of that. We don’t have to undergo therapy. We simply have to wait.
Most of us, me included, didn’t expect the temporary “brain injury” we got when jumping off benzos.
But I am starting to realize through my own experience and my educational background, that there is a PURPOSE in every symptom we have. I have had months and months to analyze what is likely going on in the brain at a gross level – and I want to attempt to explain certain symptoms in a way that we can visualize – so that they are less “scary” and more “telling” of the healing that is happening.
First off – let’s start with GABA and Glutamate. Most of you may know how this works by this point. But for those that don’t, we have a huge nervous system of millions of nerves (neurons). They don’t “touch” each other. They are separated by a tiny space in between. However, they communicate via chemicals. The 2 MAIN chemicals in the entire nervous system are the BIG GUNS. They are GABA and Glutamate. They are BOTH at work at ALL times in the CNS. It isn’t like one is working and then the other is working. They are BOTH ALWAYS working in tandem to control every aspect of movement, sensation – everything. They take the incoming information and appropriately pass it along – they “trim up” the information appropriately so that we can process it. They are like the steel structure of a building. The entire building needs a steel structure to stand.
GABA is inihibitory. If a nerve releases GABA – it is to Inhibit function – this could be to “slow it down” or it could be to “limit the sensory input” so that we can process it. In the same way, GABA might be released to help “steady” your hand while doing something like painting a very detailed painting. GABA “shores up” movements to make them more fluid. That’s just in a nutshell. Of COURSE it does a lot more than this, but the idea is that GABA is present in the ENTIRE CNS and ALWAYS working to balance every sensation, movement, etc.
Likewise, Glutamate is the balance to GABA. It is the “excitatory” transmitter. It fires to speed things up – to initiate action – to make things “go”. There’s a lot more to it, but Glutamate is kinda the opposite of GABA.
BOTH are required to work at all times. Neurons are ALL ALWAYS firing off GABA and Glutamate on a endless cycle all throughout the nervous system. It’s quite amazing really.
What does a benzo do? If a person is anxious – they may be so stressed that they cannot overcome a very traumatic event or anxious situation. If a doctor prescribes a benzo – the benzo comes in and sorta “holds the door open” for ALL the GABA in the system to FLOOD into the nerves – even when that is not what the nerves would actually want to occur. The immediate effect is that EVERYTHING ni the body SLOWS DOWN and is inhibited. This might be helpful during surgery, for anesthesia, for a seizure disorder. Yes – the benzo – by definition – will act on GABA and “slow everything down”. And yes – the net effect of this is that a person may feel drowsy, calm, less anxious… everything is being inhibited. And in general, taking a benzo for “one day” is okay. When the benzo is gone, the body just reverts back to regular operation.
HOWEVER, if a person takes a benzo day after day, while indeed the person feels less anxious, the body begins to realize that it cannot DO the things it needs to do in this very slowed-down neuron state. It cannot make hormones. It cannot create enzymes. It cannot digest correctly. It cannot keep a heart going efficiently. It cannot get enough oxygen- and on and on. The body NEEDS to run at “normal” speed – not this “inhibited speed” all slowed down.
But what can the body do? It cannot “remove the benzo” from the system. The only choice the body has to maintain a regular speed is to do two things .. It can TURN OFF it’s own GABA receptors – thereby rendering those benzos unable to affect the GABA in the system. And it can grow MORE excitatory Glutamate receptors to counteract the slow-down. And that’s kinda exactly what happens….
Only – this isn’t true balance either. The body does the best it can – but over time, things begin to suffer. The body cannot make enough serotonin in this state. Or dopamine. Some things get made in excess – and other things do not get made enough! During this time, a person may not be aware this is all going on. He may not be able to perceive any difference. But ONE day – the person may wake up sad – or not sleeping well – or unable to remember things fully – or his vision doesn’t look right….and it becomes apparent the person has “hit tolerance”. The body is taking the same amount of drug -but try as it might, it just cannot overcome what has occured. It can take weeks, months or years to hit tolerance. Some people do and some don’t before trying to get off benzos. (I did. – it took me 9 months to hit tolerance. But it was fast. Once I hit it, I could notsleep more than 6 hours on all that klonopin AND Ambien! I couldn’t remember things last week. I was crying all the time… something was wrong.)
The process to reverse this takes a while. GABA receptors have to UPregulate and effectively “reopen” or “grow back”. Glutamate receptors must DOWNregulate, or effectively “turn off” or “prune back”. And IN this mix, all the smaller monoamines (neurotransmitters like serotonin, dopamine, norepinephrine) must somehow find a way to synthesize in the mix. Through weeks and months the body is rebuildling millions of neurons, and changing pathways, rebuilding GABA, downregulating Glutamate, rebuilding serotonin, rebuilding dopamine, rebuilding norepinephrine. And ALL the enzymes and hormones that need to be made are attempting to be made while this is going on. Basically- you have a building where the MAJOR streel structures are trying to be rebuilt at different times – ALL while people are coming and going in the building and attempting to work.
It would be like if the World Trade Center Towers hadn’t completely fallen – but had crumbled inside in different places.. Imagine if you were trying to rebuild the tower – WHILE people were coming and going and trying to work in the building! You’d have to set up a temporary elevator – but when you needed to fix part of that area, you’d have to tear down that elevator and set up a temporary elevator somewhere else. And so on. You’d have to build, work around, then tear down, then build again, then work around, then build… ALL while people are coming and going, ALL while the furniture is being replaced, ALL while the walls are getting repainted… ALL while life is going on INSIDE the building. No doubt it would be chaotic. That is EXACTLY what is happening with windows and waves. The windows are where the body has “got it right” for a day or so – but then the building shifts and the brain works on something else – and it’s chaos again while another temporary pathway is set up to reroute function until repairs are made.
And just like the Twin Towers- it’s possible – but the buiding is a major effort -and it takes a good year or more sometimes. 🙂
(Now look at the new Tower that stands at Ground Zero! It’s taller, stronger, and a symbol of freedom. JUST like you will be! :thumbsup:)
So – okay – what is happening in that chaos? What parts of the brain are responsible for these symptoms?
Now, I don’t “know” the following based on research, because not enough research has been done yet – but based on my studies in neuroanatomy and my own withdrawal experiences, here is how I have analyzed what is “happening” during wave symptoms. Remember, I have had to look at radiology reports of brain damage and estimate what a patient might present with – so this is very similar. Instead of a radiology report showing me what has been damaged, I’m using my own brain symptoms to surmise what is going on….
Let me first list brain structures and their functions. This will help you understand where things happen in the brain and when symptoms occur, what may be happening.
BRAIN STRUCTURES
– amygdala – This is the FEAR center in the brain. It’s a tiny part in the middle of your brain. Fear is protective and it’s GREAT if you need to assess something that is dangerous and to ACT – like if a rabid dog were chasing you. – but it’s hard in recoveyr when it’s all you feel for months! But the FEAR is not truly in your MIND. It’s in your BRAIN. There is too much glutamate acting here in the amygdala and not enough GABA. So the nerves are firing off in the fear center when nothing scary is really there in your environment. It is normal for that to happen given the circumstance physiologically. But it feels awful, doesn’t it? I know. But it’s just a brain structure. This can account for fear, agoraphobia, fear of water, fear of anything. It’s not that you’re really “scared” of the moon – it’s that you’re in almost constant fear because this brain structure is healing. The glutamate is pruning back. The GABA receptors are opening back up. It may or may not continue for awhile. It will abate. Then come back. But eventually, the brain will get it right. 🙂
-Hippocampus – This is the “memory” center of the brain. It ties in old memories to emotions. The same thing is happening here that is happening in the amygdala with GABA and Glutamate. So – voila. You get intrusive memories from ALL times in your life. It’s wild and wicked and wooly. But it can’t hurt you. And if you can learn to visualize this as what is happening – then you can learn to be objective and realize it’s normal. And like the amygdala – it will come and go and frustrate you, but it will go away when the physiology is restored.
Hypothalamus This is the structure that is responsible for regulating body temperature. In early withdrawal, my body temperature would drop to 96 degrees in waves! Then 3 hours later, it would return to normal. I’d literally freeze in terror in bed for hours. I am sure it is more complicated that JUST the hypothalamus, but I could picture this part of my brain retuning and restructuring, and it was less scary that way.
The following structures in the brain are part of the “gray matter” or the “cortex “and what we consider to be the “higher brain”- the thinking and processing parts.
Frontal Lobe This is the part of the brain behind the front of the skull. It is responsible for planning things. For making decisions. For inhibiting emotions appropriately. It is the part of the brain you need if you want to make a sandwich and need to get out the ingredients and actually make the sandwich. I have seen people with brain injury be able to TELL you how to make a sandwich – but when they are standing there in front of all the ingredients, they cannot actually move to act to make it! They have frontal lobe damage. They can TELL someone how to make it. But they cannot themselves initiate doing it! As you can imagine, with therapy, and time to heal, this goes away. And we are a lot like this – but it goes away for us, too. I could not organize my children’t toys just 4 months ago. Not a simple room of toys. I didn’t know where to start and I literally could not mentally do it. I imagine this is partly why. No frontal lobe GABA. 🙂 And too much Glutamate. But now, check out this post I”m typing. Obviously that changed. 🙂
This calms down and these things come back.
Occipital Lobe This is the vision center. t’s at the back of your skull. In recovery, my nerves have been all wacked here. I see things as too bright – possible due to this lobe – and/or the actual visual nerves in the eyes. But no doubt people “see things” that aren’t there. Vision is distorted. Things go blurry. Colors are totally off.Brightness is off. There are a hundred symptoms possible in vision alone! But again – it’s a matter of time.
Vestibular System This is the system of semi-circular canals in the inner ear that are responsible for making you feel balanced in space. When this is “off” or damaged temporarily, you feel dizzy. Oh man, was I dizzy. Early off – I felt like I lived in a funhouse. Over time, a combination of this vestibular system and my damaged visual system made things look like they were “leaning”. To this day, one eye sees things “correctly” and the other eye sees things as SLIGHTLY leaning. And it’s not that the eye itself is seeing them that way. The healing vestibular system is working WITH the eye to “tell” the brain that that object looks like it is “moving left-wards” or “leaning”. But it isn’t. In waves, this can happen bad – and then be GONE – poof – in a window. This is just the vestibular system healing. It’s gotten WAY better.
Temporal Lobe These lobes are on the side of your brain on each side near your ear. It makes up the whole left and ride side of your brain. This is where auditory information is processed, including hearnig itself, but also the “Meaning” of what we are hearing, as well as part of speech and language, emotion, and buncha other stuff. In early recovery, someone was talking to me and I couldn’t tell you what they said past the first sentence. My auditory processing was ALL messed up. I couldn’t picture what a person was saying to me in real time – and by the time I caught up to them, I was lost and they were talking about something else! Also – When I was laying there in bed, I could “hear” things that weren’t there in the noise of my box fan. I’d hear the fan blowing -but I also “heard” like sickening circus music. I believe this is because there is noise coming into my ear – but my brain cannot adequately “prune” what it is hearing at differnet frequecies because there is not enough GABA to inhibit it to create something meaninful. There was all this “noise” and my brain was just firing off glutamate. So instead of actually “processing” the noise – it was firing off ideas about what it was hearing – and they were ALL wrong. I would be hearing what sounded like circus music – and at the same time, my poor brain was looking through my hippocampus to find all the memories I ever had of being at the circus – and then I’m reliving those memories- and at the same time, my amygdala is getting fired upon – so I’m in fear. So I’m a quivering mess of a person laying in the bed hearing and seeing things and remembering times in my childhood and scared to pieces. Seriously? Yes – I felt crazy. But not in my MIND. It was my BRAIN. It’s the BRAIN. And it’s normal. The structures in the brain are “obligated” to work this way.
That brings me to my next point… WHY do all of us in benzo recovery have generally the same symptoms? Well – it may make you feel calmer to realize that our brain structures are NOT broken. They are doing EXACTLY what they are supposed to do under the circumstances. And all of our perceptions of what we are seeing, feeling, hearing- are normal because the parts of our brains that are firing off are doing so because a) They still DO work. b) They work just as they were intended to. c) They are actually healing as all this firing is going on.
Why the depression and anxiety? It’s so complicated, but this WHOLE system is interdependent. At that SAME time as ALL this stuff is going on, the entire body is trying to heal in every place GABA and Glutamate naturally act (uh – and that would be – EVERYWHERE).
The intestines, stomach, eye balls, skin, toenails – seriously – where do we NOT have nerves?
Anything we didn’t have as a pre-existing condition is fair game for being affected by the recovery that takes place.
This includes the body’s own ability to make serotonin that is required to feel “balanced” and “happy”. And you guessed it. This is not being made very efficiently in a building that is under major construction. So – you may get a day or so of feeling good – and then – boom – that’s gone until you can make enough serotonin.
Oh – and by the way – serotonin HELPS TELL THE NERVES WHEN TO RELEASE GABA AND GLUTAMATE! Ha!
So on top of needing GABA to make serotonin, you need serotonin to regulate the release of GABA into the system!
How much more interconnected can you get? God – it’s a wonder it knows how to heal at all! But it does! Amazing to me, really.
This is just some limited information to give an idea of what is going on in neurophysiology. Obviously this is very cursory and not super detailed. But there is a bigger point here than “what parts of the brain are affected”.
The point REALLY is – IF YOU KNOW that symptoms are tied to parts of a NORMAL brain under reconstruction, then you can begin to rest a little more easy in your mind that under the circumstances, the symptoms themselves are a GOOD sign.
Without intrusive memories – as awful as they are – especially when mixed with fear – but without them, your memory itself would not heal. It IS healing – and when you are having intrusives, try to think of it that way. Tap your finger to your temple and say to yourself, “I know what this is. This is my hippocampus healing! Ha!” Because it IS. And if it were NOT healing, you would not be having those symptoms. ANY part of the brain or body that needs to heal is going to “experience” something in the form of symptoms – and you are going to notice that. But it is part of process that is inevitably returning to the balance that it could not achieve while we were still putting those pills in our mouths. (And if you’re tapering, this is still happening – just likely with less trauma than with what happened to me when I cold-turkeyed.)
So – when you have symptoms – know that symptoms themselves are a way for you to know that healing is taking place.
And finally – realize that the DRUG is GONE. This is withdrawal – yes – okay -we call it withdrawal – but it’s really “recovery”.
The benzos are gone. The “evil drug” is no longer there. The symptoms that are left are not the “enemy”. That’s our brains doing the EXACT right thing. What’s happening to our brain at this point is not the “benzo beast” 🙂 It’s OUR BRAIN recovering.
Not to degrade anyone who calls it the benzo beast 🙂 – I get that. But just so you know – you’re not really fighting a beast.
You don’t even need to fight it. Just wait it out. All that reconstruction is happening on your building.
And soon – the frame will be back standing, stronger than before. The furniture will be inside. The elevators will go all the way up to the top again. :laugh: And the people can come and go and work like a well-oiled machine.
Don’t feel you need to fight the recontruction. It’s just healing. And all that is happening to us is a sign of that.
Hope this helps somebody a little – or maybe a family member.
And if you ARE a family member, please realize that those of us in recovery are no more in control of how we feel or what we experience than people who have undergone brain trauma in a car accident. Please be patient with us, because our brains are healing and we are in the process of reconstruction – and our function is temporarily enabled, then disabled, then enabled, then disabled again. And that is totally normal and expected. We can no more help that than a person can “want” to wake up out of a coma. It happens when the brain is able – and not out of sheer will. But it does happen. So please stand by us and say loving things and reassure us every day. Notice our improvements and tell us what they are. Encourage us when we feel good. And when we don’t, just hold us and hug us and tell us it will be okay. Anything you would say or do for a family member that had had a car accident and a brain injury – please do that for us. And be patient… we are getting there.
ADDENDUM
I got a great PM from a buddy asking “What about the physical symptoms of pain?” – and think it deserves some theoretical attention.
I want to take some time to add some theories about PAIN and physical symptoms such as burning, akathisia, and tingling, prickling, and things that happen during recovery of this nature.
I will also add this as an addendum to the original post on page 1.
First off, let it be said that I can only “theorize” as to this, – I am not a doctor. But I DO think logical theories are helpful because they give us a story and mindful logic to cope with in the MEANTIME as we are going through this.
So these are multiple sources of information that I’m tying together – some are from nerve regeneration, and some are from what we know about “how the brain works”. And some or ALL of this is likely going on when it comes to pain and skin/muscle sensations:
First off – I think a good quote comes from a Plastic Surgery practice that has published things on “nerve regeneration after injury”.
The quote follows:
“The usual events associated with normal nerve regeneration can be painful. As the regenerating ends of the nerve, called sprouts, travel, they make contact with each other and with structural proteins. The neural impulses generated by this activity may be interpreted by your brain as pain. It should be expected that for the time period associated with nerve regeneration there may be pain sufficient to need therapy and/or pain medication. Just understanding that this is expected to occur, and is “good pain’; or pain for a good reason, is enough to help many people adjust to its presence. This condition is not just one of pain, but is associated with over activity of the sympathetic nervous system, so that the area of pain is a different color, like pink or purple, and is usually a different temperature, like cooler, than the surrounding non-painful skin.” http://www.riversongplasticsurgery.com/pdfs/nerve_injury_nerve_reconstruction_recovery.pdf
Well- this article isn’t talking about “benzo – related nerve damage. It’s talking about nerve damage caused by physical trauma of crushing, cutting, or compressing nerves. But what can we glean from it nonetheless?
We can assume that if the sympathetic nervous system is involved in the presence of pain related to healing nerves – AND IT IS- that it is also NORMAL for us to have pain as we are undergoing healing.
When I was in earliest recovery, I would often get out of the shower and have pink spots all over my feet and my abdomen. At first they were bright pink for about 2 months – and then they faded out and I don’t have them anymore. I have no idea what they were – but they were NOT there 12 days prior to my rapid taper – and then they showed up. The spots weren’t symmetrical – they followed no pattern, but they were alway in the same place on my skin. And only after getting out of the shower. It is easy to see how the nervous system could be involved in skin redness, irritation, and weird feelings associated with recovery.
Likewise, throughout recovery, I’ve had and continue to have cooling, burning, prickling and occasional stabbing sensations. I’ve had it feel like my skin was “wet” when there was no water on it. Again, though. This is all normal – and like the quote says above..”Just understanding that this is expected to occur, and is “good pain’; or pain for a good reason, is enough to help many people adjust to its presence.” It doesn’t make the pain FEEL any better in the moment, but it does help us not to become anxious about it. It’s normal. And it’s a sign of healing.
What about akathisia?
Well – from the reading, the exact cause of akathisia is not 100% conclusive, but it seems to be related to dopaminergic and/or noradrenergic activity in the brain (dopamine and norepinephrine or noradrenaline as it is also called). These are just neurotransmitters – and it doesn’t look (to me) to be exactly conclusive WHY this happens – but akathisia can happen after the use of many psychoactive drugs- not just benzos – and likely because anything that alters brain chemistry can alter dopemine and norepinephrine. So – okay. That makes sense. We all took “brain altering” drugs – and now some of us have akathisia. Guess what? It seems pretty normal! It’s not fun. But it’s normal. And it can come and go and then go away eventually. For me, I didn’t get akathisia at all until month 8. It was a surprise. It was intense and awful. But it passed in a few weeks. Since then, I have had it off and on – but not to that degree. And now – it’s mostly just annoying. Something as simple as a good hard cry in the bathtub can COMPLETELY remove it at times. And other times, I just have to wait for a wave to pass. But all in all, from all this information – it’s normal. And the fact that it’s coming and going and I’m getting hit here and there – it’s a sign that the wheels are turning up there in the noggin – and things are shifting and attempting to rebalance. So if we can keep that quote in mind – it’s normal – and while the sensation itself is very uncomfortable – if not painful – it can be regarded as a “good pain” if we are able to recognize that our feeling it means we have a brain and nerves that are regaining their abilities to function.
Likewise, as a scab heals over a wound, the new skin formin underneath can become “itchy”. Why does this occur? Why does a scab itch?
“The itch of a healing wound is caused by the growth of new cells underneath the old scab. New skin cells would be growing underneath, and as they form a new layer of skin, then the scab becomes more tightly stretched over this zone of activity. This can make it feel itchy. The itch sensation for burn survivors may be a tingling feeling caused by nerves re-growing, or from dry skin caused by the lack of natural oil production since oil glands may have been damaged or destroyed by the burn. As the nerves grow and start to receive and send messages, they may create that itchy feeling. The skin in this area will be a lot less thick than everywhere else, so these new nerve cells will be under a lot more pressure. Itching is a sign of healing.” (Mayo Clinic)
As we can surmise, the umpteen bajillion sensation we have going on are not 100% conclusive in their origins….HOWEVER…
There IS a trend.
From what it seems like from all the reading…
NERVE REGENERATION CAN CAUSE UNPLEASANT SENSATIONS. As counterintuitive as it is, HEALING CAN FEEL LIKE HURT. 🙂
But it’s NOT further hurt or damage. It’s the REVERSAL of damage.
Um – yeah – okay. Great – but what do I DO about it.
Pretty much the things that I have discovered that help through this healing are to “CONFUSE” the nerves as much as possible, IF possible.
What? Confuse the nerves?
You know how you get a cut or an insect bite and you immediately press on it to make it feel less painful? What you are doing when you press or squeeze the area is “desensitizing’ the entire skin region of the cut by applying pressure to ALL the nerves in the area. That way, the ONE sensation of pain from the cut isn’t the only thing your brain is feeling. The pressure from pushing down on ALL the nerves in the area helps to send multiple sensation to the brain to “counteract” the pain sensation. And it works.
Similarly, other things can help “confuse” nerves:
-Heat
-Cold
-Deep Pressure
– Massage
-creams like “Icy Hot” with menthol
All of these things have helped me cope in recovery.
Let me take it one by one:
Heat: I took and STILL take hot baths almost every day. In the peak of akathisia, I lived in the tub. 🙂 As hot as I could stand it really helped me. All the heat was “overregistering” in my brain and I was unable to feel the akathisia as much when in the tub. It was confusing the nerve signal and it was temporary relief. I hated those days. But I got through them. Likewise, a heating pad for pain was my friend a lot of the time.
-Cold – I used a cold washcloth on burning skin – and on my face and hands – and kept dipping it in ice water and applying it. This is an easy one, but it helped. I had a wave with 3 days of “fireface” last month and all I could do was apply the washcloth, lay there and think about how “this is healing” and keep going. But the wave passed.
Deep Pressure I use a 15 pound weighted blanket to sleep. I have for YEARS. I ordered it online. It has many pockets with little plastic balls equally distributed to create a very heavy blanket that creates “deep pressure”. This kind of pressure is calming for anyone’s nervous system. Occupational Therapists use it for children with autism, but people with anxiety can benefit from sleeping with one. And in recovery, I was glad to have it. I used it often together with a heating pad. It took the edge off just long enough.
Massage This one CAN be helpful – but sometimes not. I used to ask my husband just to “press down” on my head or my legs. Just press there. Don’t rub. My skin hurt too much to rub, but the deep pressure from pressing was helpful. Other times, the actual massage was a help for sore muscles. I was too agoraphobic to schedule a REAL massage. LOL. But just this help from my family was nice to have.
Creams You’re going to laugh, but there was a day that I put Vick’s VapoRub on my face because my face was so HOT! I figured if this is safe for my baby’s skin, it’s probably okay to try it on my face. It worked! Oh man – my face felt SO good all day. I used that for a few days until the wave passed. I have also tried “Icy Hot” on my back when it was sore. Things like this work on the same principal to “confuse the nerves”. If your nerves are too busy feeling the heat/cool of menthol, they cannot simultaneously feel “pain”. So for a short time, the pain is not “felt” even though the “soreness” is technically still there.
All of these are ways I have coped. I’m sure there are others you guys have used!! 🙂
The broad idea here is that
1) Healing is happening.
2) The sensations that feel like injury are NOT injury. They are the CORRECTION of nerve injury. They just “fire off” as they heal.
3) We can use some things to cope.
4) It’s going away in time.
I know this is not a “fix” to the feelings. There is nothing anyone could say to me while I was IN pain that made the PAIN better. All I could do was cope and cry and try to get through it. But knowing it’s normal and that I’m not getting worse; I’m getting better – is always something I benefit from knowing.
I still get these symptoms – and I’ll be SOOOOOO glad when they are gone.
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May 9, 2013 at 10:28 am
What an extraordinarily helpful post. Do your comments and observations also apply to SSRI withdrawal/healing ?
April 11, 2013 at 8:52 am
hi guys thanks for your support, the bottom is not pretty, I am starting to think that these intense feelings I am getting is extreme anxiety which is why I am shaking and puking and feel like I am going to die from feeling so bad (not like I am going to have a heart attack) so now today I have got myself in a spin thinking that 15 years ago when I was first given drugs I was actually like I am now so actually what I am feeling now is not withdrarawl it is the way I am made up. I have convinced myself to thinking that 15 years ago I felt this bad before I was given drugs so I am just going back to the ways I was, my memory is so distorted, I rembeer saying to my mum 15 years ago the panic was coming over me in a wave and that is what is happening now, god i hope this is withdrarawl not me. BUt if I have hours of feeling ok, surely it isnt me as I would be feeling it all the time. 6 months into withdraraAWL i DIDNT HAVE ANXIETY AND i SAID FOR MONTHS THE PANIC HADNT COME BACK SO WHY IS IT NOW. I feel I am in a spiral now that I wont get out of, I went to work today and turned round and called my boss and said I couldnt do it, I have been in the house alone all day working for 6 hours and I fear I am turning agrophobic as I dont want to leave the house, I am going to make myself walk round the block in a second to make myself proove I am not agrophobic, I just dont like to be in public places feeling so bad. So to some it up my worry is that I was totally deluded in thinking I wasnt that unwell before I started taking the drugs, and from my memory I was that unwell. I always thought I had extreme anxiety 15 years ago because I spent 4 years solid smoking marajuana but maybe I am wrong maybe this is my lot. Anxiety does run in my dads side of the family massiveky, if only there was a way to know withdrarawl had eneded and this is what is left, am i being irrational because of withdrarwl? Monday I was fine no anxiety no doom and thursday I am on the floor x
April 12, 2013 at 5:11 pm
I had very similar thoughts. It’s very hard to differentiate between withdrawal and “naturally” occurring anxiety. They both feel the same, have the same effects, and fluctuate the same way.
One thing to keep in mind is that at least part of the anxiety you’re experiencing now is being caused by withdrawal.
In my case, the anxiety I had before I started taking Paxil largely went away during the time I was on the drug. I couldn’t tell because my anxiety felt the same. It wasn’t until I got through the worst of withdrawal that I realized how much my anxiety had changed and diminished during my treatment. I’m a completely different person now, and Paxil was hiding that from me for years.
Try to have patience with the process, and see how you’ve changed while the drug has been numbing you. I know it’s a very hard process, but the potential for improvement on the other side is big. If you get through it and you realize that you still need the drug, there’s no shame in going back on it. Hang in there.
April 11, 2013 at 8:58 pm
emma,have you read this article? read it if you haven’t, the psych that wrote it talks about people having W/d up to 2 yrs or more, although it talks about Benzo’s,I have read other articles about SSRI’s/SNRi’s where people have taken up to 3 yrs to recover,
http://www.benzo.org.uk/breggin.htm
I saw my psych Monday and we talked about my extreme anxiety and dizziness,she told me that, you have had all these test done and there was nothing wrong on all of them,she told me this is an enemy I have faced before and it’s time to fight ans stop worrying about whats wrong with me,she said you want it to be physical , it would be easier to accept and deal with.
She keeps telling me to tell myself that I am getting better,and then pointed out how much progress I have made since I first saw her,I was really bad 5 months ago and was ready to toss in the towel,I was actually falling down from the dizziness and could not do any moderate to severe exercise because I got so dizzy I had to sit down,now I am walking up and down stairs and on my feet all the time,the only time i get dizzy is when i turn my head a certain way.
last night I was on the pc looking for a boat, when all of a sudden here comes the anxiety and it was coming on strong
as fast as it started it was gone,this is the first time that has ever happened,it usually last for days .
Another thing I have noticed is that I am pretty good in the morning and by 11:30 am, I start my regressing and by 8 pm I am
anxiety bound and the dizziness and off balance is more pronounced,I take my prescribed 1mg x before bed and slowly fall to sleep,I am getting better,problem is I don’t stop to think about it,i just dwell on how I feel at the moment and that makes me forget about the progress because all I think about is this never going to end,this is bad for me and I have to keep thinking this is just temporary,I will get better.
The other problem I have is ,I’m still on X and I haven’t stabilized on the dose I’m on and i refuse to up it.
I think you are better off where you are ,even though you don’t think so,at least your off the drugs.
There are a lot of people who have had great success and i think our turn is coming,it’s just gonna take longer.
Although my psych has been very good to me,she did mention that I may have to take X for the rest of my life,my answer
was NO WAY,it’s not doing me any good now, how can it possibly help me down the road,it was just a thought she said I should keep in mind,well it.s not gonna happen,I will fight this to my death,if I have ever wanted to accomplish anything in my life,getting off X and getting better is my #1 goal and I don’t care how long it takes,these drugs are not going to win.
I hope you get better Emma,remember I would like to meet you and damn it’s gonna happen,so keep telling yourself I’m getting better,and every time you are in a bad place, visualize your self on a nice tropic island with sun shining down your feet in the sand and quite ruffling of small waves washing up on the beach,picture yourself there and try to hold on to it.
There, you just got some free advice that would have cost me $300 smackers lol
get better emma,I will send you good vibes.
Jay
April 12, 2013 at 5:14 pm
That’s the right attitude, Jay. It will pay off in the future. The big task is to endure the present. Keep plugging away and it will happen 🙂
April 13, 2013 at 11:46 pm
Thanks npanth,I’m trying but you know how hard it gets,I want more than anything to be human again,we all do.
It will happen as long as we believe it will.
Jay
April 14, 2013 at 9:24 am
It’s so hard to get through this period of withdrawal. The physical, chemical components of it overwhelm the normal ways we deal with emotions and physical pain. It has to be endured rather than conquered. Eventually, there are inks you can do to lessen or avoid problems, you have to get there first. You will. I can see that you have a great deal of strength in you. That will see you through this time.
April 12, 2013 at 3:32 am
hey Jay thanks for the advice it seems really logical and it is great that your psych pointed out how far you have come as I dont think we can ever see it!! It got me thinking when you said that , although I have felt the absolutet worse I have ever felt over the last 3 days, I have noticed that I am no longer afraid to be in the house on my own, so I guess facing my fears has done something. And I have got better at letting the bad wave over me, and just as you said when you were on the computer looking at the boat it literally just comes out of nowhere and then can go just as quick, my anxiety is like that. The last 3 days have been horrendous as you would have read, no respite at all and constant waves of doom, fear, anxiety, wanting to not be here, but I sat through them all, and then after such bad feelings I had 2 completley normal hours last night before bed, how i would like to be all the time and then I slept for 6 hours, that is a miracle, but how can that happen after a day of awfulness, it shows just how erratic it is. I started to freak out yeatrerday, got myself in a loop of thinking that it was actually my old symptoms from 15 years ago before I statred taking the drugs and that I had always had anxiety that bad, but I hadnt and I am rational again knowing it is withdrarawl. I have read the thing by Peter Breggin and it is reassuring, I do frequentley take my information from Benzos though and I have never been on those mine is only ever anti depressants, I know a lot of people say the recovery and symptoms are the sdame as they are all psychotropic drugs, I just hope the information I am getting is right for me. I spoke to the withdrarawl helpline yeaterday as I felt so bad just to get some reassuarnce and the woman was great,a i told her that when i feel better and have better days i never feel cured i just feel more manageable than most days, but not cured and she said that is what windows are they are not recovered but they are progress and that really helped me because I get gutted when I have a window that I still dont feel how I want to be, she said every year gets better and better and she haad been recoverd for 30 years, she also said that it can take a few years, I dont mind it taking a few years if I can live through it with less mental pain. The other good news is I always take heartburn tablets when I have anxierty as they take the edge off it a little bit, maybe its the coolness of the mint, anyway I thought if I am supposed to be accepting this anxiety and not trying to get rid of it then popping a heartburn tablet is trying to fight it, so I have taken any for over a week!!and I have a new motto, Jay you might like this one, instead of worrying about time slipping by, it is this LIFE IS LONG,IT IS THE LONGEST THING WE WILL EVER DO!! SO LETS SPEND THIS TIME GETTING BETTER TO ENJOY A LONG WELL LIFE!! thanks for all the support guys! one week until I a, 37! still a youngster really x
April 15, 2013 at 6:21 am
Hi Guys.
I just wanted to tell my story about anti-depressants and benzos. I was first put on Lexapro after the birth of my child back in 2006. I had somewhat of a traumatic birth and my daughter was ill 8 weeks after she was born and was taken to hospital – I believe the stress of this all, as well an hormonal imbalance caused my anxiety issues. I was also put onto a hormonal implant 6 weeks after birth, which I believe intensified the anxiety I was having about my daughter. I had troubles sleeping and became paranoid that there was something wrong with me and my daughter as we had both had such a traumatic experience before and after birth. Just to give you an insight, when I fell pregnant with my daughter and I had my first scan, I was told that I did not have enough amniotic fluid and that there was a problem, this stayed with me the entire time during the pregnancy (nothing was wrong). I then went 10 days over and had to be induced, was in labour for 14 hours and was then rushed in for an emergency c-section because baby’s heart rate had dropped. Prior to this I had 8 epidural attempts – until the last attempt, which was put too far into my spine and the guy who did it started to stress about the complications this may cause.
Anyways my little girl was born safe and sound and we returned home. I went to a dr after the birth complaining of chest pain (he told me I could possibly have a clot in my lung due to my c-sections) this was not the case, it was due to the straining through labour – this of course freaked me out. After all of this my daughter developed a strange lump on her breast. We took her to the hospital to which all drs replied, they had never seen anything like it and were not sure what it was. Scared as hell my husband and I paced the halls only to be told to go and see a pediatric specialist at another hospital. We did this and were told it was only an abscess which needed to be drained and treated by antibiotics. So many misdiagnosis’s….I was just lost! I couldn’t sleep due to the worry and anxiety of something happening to my child, even though she was getting better and I turned to my dr for advice. He said that I had a “Generalised Anxiety Disorder” even though I had never in my 24 years of life suffered with anything of this kind. I would get normal anxiety about a new job, or a test for instance, but nothing to this degree. I was prescribed lexapro 10mg which was increased to 20mg – I asked if this drug was addictive – my doctor clearly stated no! He told me I had a chemical imbalance in my brain and that after 3 months I would be fine and I could come off the tablets.
I did feel better, the crying stopped, the anxiety stopped and I generally felt better. 3 months later I was told I could lower my dosage over a couple of weeks and come off the tabs. No such luck, the dizziness was horrendous and anxiety would attack out of nowhere. I tried several times to come off with no avail.
I then slowly tapered, I wasn’t really in the world of forums, interenet etc, so just thought I would try it until one day I just stopped taking it. I blame myself for being so naive and here comes the part where my world crumbled.
Low and behold I had hit withdrawal, although I did not know that I was in it.
I had unbelievable anxiety that would hit out the blue, it got to the point where I was having panic attacks at home, which then followed me to my work. I had a panic attack at work and felt like I was getting worse and worse by the minute. I called in sick, I had several days of work not knowing what was wrong with me. I went back to my doctor who told me I now had a “Panic Disorder”, I was mortified. Somewhere somehow, I believed this was the cause of the lexapro. I thought to myself “I have never had these attacks before, nor have I ever endured such anxiety. However the seed of doubt was planted and I didn’t trust my instincts, rather what the doctor had told me. An bam…out come the benzos! I was put on .5mg of Xanax and was started back on the 10mg of lex – this time I was put straight onto 10mg without any minor dose increases like prior. Scary stuff!!!
I have never in my life felt so horrible – it was a living hell. This time nothing worked. The lex wasn’t helping and the X was making me feel like a zombie. I had panic attacks which lasted hours. They would come and go intermittently. I felt like I wanted to die, I felt hopeless, I was trembling, I would lose my bowels but yet I continued on with the meds. I went back to my dr, told him these aren’t working, he upped my lex dosage back to 20mg and things balanced out. But I drifted into a horrible depression. I quit my job, I alienated my friends, my family thought I was going mad – I felt so terribly alone and I thought it was me. I thought was going insane and my dr told me I would have to be on these meds for the rest of my life!! This scared me to death, but I continued. I was scared to be alone, I was scared of everything but I pushed through for the sake of my daughter and husband.
I stopped the X after a couple of weeks as I hated the ‘zombie’ feeling.
But continued on the lex as I was told I just had to wait it out and things would get better. They didn’t if anything they get worse. I got more depressed, more anxious and started getting some ocd. I would contiunously repeat words in my head. Something I had never had before?!
6 months I continued like this, until I thought it has to be the lex that is doing this to me, I was never like this before. I felt like I was being tortured inside my head – it was truly awful.
So I decided to ditch the Dr and taper myself. My father in law is a mental health RN and told me to cut the dose down by 5mg incraments every 2 weeks – way too fast but I continued on. It was hell on earth I can tell you!!! I finally got down to 0mg and was Lex free but entered withdrawal hell!
I had the following symptoms: Anxiety +++, Depression+++, suicidal thoughts, obsessive and intrusive thoughts, thoughts of going insane, numbness on my face, diziness,twitching, burning sensations on my arms, tingling down my legs and on my back, trembling hands, cold and hot sweats, the shakes, massive mood swings, anger, rage etc, hot flushes, vomiting, diarrhea, zaps in my head, adrenalin rushes, heart palpitations (whilst at work my pulse got up to 125), breathlessness, nauseous, no appetite, fuzzy head, bad dreams and images, cravings (but not knowing what for), confusion, a constant chatting mind, memory loss, constant crying.
There are probably more, but these were all the ones I had written down. I tried everything to help myself, accupuncture, herbs, vitamins etc. But I found the best and only thing that worked was time.
I noticed the waves and still have them now, but they are nowhere as intense as what they have been. I remember early on sitting down talking to people but not being able to concentrate because my brain was constantly chatting, it was horrible. But I noticed, as have many, that with time, each symptom slowly diminished and then went. Alot of the time, I felt like each symptom came back two fold and then went away completely.
On the 23rd of April will be my 12 month anniversary since I am completely drug free and it feels sooo much better. I still have waves, but they are little, I can honestly say 90% of my symptoms are gone! The main things I still suffer with are burning sensations in the arms (not as bad), the tingling in the legs ( once a month),numbness in my back( every now and then), twitching (once a month), mental confusion( every now and then), memory loss( every now and then), minimal anxiety and depression (limited to hours throughout the day, every now and then) nothing like it was. The main thing that still bugs me are the intrusive thoughts, but they are nowhere near as constant as what they were. I found that my 9 month mark was the worst! I thought I was losing the plot, alot of the symptoms came back worse but then they got better.
I still struggle, I have days where I just wish I was back to being me. But I also know how far I have come. The issues I have overcome and thoughts that I have dealt with and lived with. I have at many times thought, that I would stay like this, that i will become agoraphobic, that I will lose control, that I have done things when I haven’t. But I now see that they are not real and because they haven’t happened yet and they won’t.
I went back to work when I went back onto the lex, after having 3 months off and I continued to work during the midst of my withdrawal. I told my employer what was going on and she was great about it all. At the time I felt like I wasn’t coping, but she said to me “You are, you are here at work and you are dealing with it. You need to accept what is happening to you.” And that I did…I have not had one sick day, I have gotten up everyday and I have taken my daughter to school, I have been a wife, a daughter and a parent. And I will beat this and so will everyone of you. It takes time and our brains need to heal from all the damage that has been done.
I hope my story has helped someone out there. Stay strong and carry on. Keep yourselves busy and love the people around you. I will beat this and so will you!
Here is another great website you can checkout also, it helped me. It has some really good success stories and some help strategies. http://recovery-road.org/
Best Wishes, Melanie 🙂
April 15, 2013 at 6:54 pm
Thanks Melanie. Is amazing to me how similar yet unique, withdrawal stories are. Everyone seems to get on them for similar reasons, and with similar ease. It seems like everyone has their own personal experience getting off them, though.
Withdrawal anxiety is the worst feeling. It feels so much like an internal emotion that it’s hard to tell where the boundary between you and the drug is. That’s the point where doctors make the diagnostic mistake. Like you, I went to my doctor when I started having problems with the SSRI (paxil in my case) he had prescribed for me. He never considered that the drug was causing problems. He just upped the dose and wrote new prescriptions for other meds. If I had followed his advice, I’d be on 4 drugs at this point. I’m convinced that I would be completely disabled, too. The proof for me is that my symptoms are getting better as my dose gets lower. If his diagnosis had been correct, I’d be getting worse.
I’m glad you’re making good progress towards recovery. Who would have thought that we would become drug addicts just by following accepted medical advice?
July 10, 2015 at 5:28 am
Hi please help me too!!!Would this all go??That’s what I keep wondering. I cross one stage, enter into a stage of bliss and then again hell is waiting.
April 15, 2013 at 2:51 pm
Hi mel it is so good to hear your story, and I really need it today, absolutely everysingle thing you have described I have, infact your description is spot on, I could have written it. I am 12 months and 2 weeks off and at my worst point but I can still see some things that have improved even though as I said I feel the worst yet, but I was on the drugs for 15 years so that is probably why it is taking longer. Thanks for your story and I hope you get that other 10 percent and more on top of that. Npanth and jay just to let you know I got through the worst bit last week alive, it was truly awful, but as it is never linear I have had a couple of ok days, days I can handle and although not great make me feel like I am recovering. I do feel like I have conquered two things, I am not so scared to be alone and as much as I hate it I am finding it easier to sit through the overwhelming waves, well not easier but I can do it, a week ago I would have taken any drug including an ssris again to numb the mental torture but today and I literally have just had a bad spell that made me feel like I was going insane, less than an hour ago, but today the difference is I would not put a drug in my body ever again. I had a full on panic today at work and I sat through it, which is what I normally do but this time I just knew it would pass. So I will keep going until like mel it starts to get better, I want to start having those kids I dream of! I hope you all are good, and thanks for all your kind thoughts when I was horrendous last week x
April 15, 2013 at 7:02 pm
Glad to hear it, Emma. It’s so hard to see you going through waves. I know they are temporary things, but I can’t find a way to convey that in a way that makes sense. When I was there, there wasn’t any way for someone else to get through to me, either. It’s so lonely and isolating to be in the middle of a wave, and the only reassurance is that you will someday look back in wonder at the progress you’ve made. That kind of “it will get better” advice doesn’t have a lot of traction. I’ll have to think of a better way to say it.
April 16, 2013 at 3:34 am
Well after writing that last night I am back where I was last week, awful rushing waves of badness, I dont know why it has got so bad, I really thought it couldnt get anyworse and it just does all the time, I prayed for relief this morning, I begged, I just dont know what to do with myself luckily I am working from home today but if I hadnt have been I would not have been able to go in, I am going to have to ask my psychtrist on Friday why it is getting worse, I tried my hardest not to be sick as I know this is just a reflex, but I had to it just overcomes me and then I start shaking, I cant bare the thought that as it is 9am I have to get through 12 hours to be able to go to bed again in the hope that I will wake up feeling better, and I dont think I can do 12 hours,, mind you I have done 6 hours since I woke up at 3am this moirning, I just cant handle this anymore. We are going to friends at the weekend for 2 days at I just dont want to go, I just cant feeling like this but my shrink says I have to make myself do things, even my husband hasnt seen me like this though because he has been away everytime it has come on, maybe that is a bit of a trigger him not being here. I am going to also ask my shrink what will happen if I cant push myself 100% of the time, i know he will say what is the worst that will happen, and i say i will feel awful and loose it and then he will say what is the worst that can happen, and it goes on like that, but trutefully the worst that can happen in my world is that i feel really bad in a public place or infront of people I dont want to feel bad infront of, I am feeling back again today that I would take anything that anyone could give me to get me out of this, I would go into volutary coma if I could, my freinds and family are being amazing keeping me going saying i will get better and i will get through and it wont be much longer now and if i took drugs it would take ages for me to get them right and i dont need them, but how long do i keep doing this, texting them that i feel so bad and dont know what to do with myself, being sick, shaking, being petrfied, i dont know how i can get through anymore (again not suicidal) but definatley considering asking to be hospitalised until I get throught this, dont even know if that is a possibility but my god it would help to know i was in the safest place possible and when i wake up freaking out at 3 am i could talk to a nurse. i cant wait to come on here with my success story. x
April 16, 2013 at 7:21 pm
You will come here with a success story, Emma, I’m certain of it. I started withdrawal not knowing what I was doing. You have reached out and studied withdrawal, which puts you further ahead than me. I know it doesn’t seem like it at all right now, but it will happen eventually. I was there, too. I begged, cajoled, and threatened god to make me better or… you know. This is the worst part. Hang in there, it will start to turn around in time. It’s hard to say how long, and that’s the big question I always had. I wish I could say when, but I only know “if”. And that’s a definitive yes. I hope you feel better soooon!
April 15, 2013 at 8:20 pm
Hi All, It has been a while since I’ve been on here. And first off I want to say to all of you how sorry I am for all of you withdrawalers, the pain and misery you are all experiencing. Ugh!!! I want to let you know that I’ve been going through my own personal hell. So about a month ago, all the physical withdrawal and most of the emotional withdrawal had subsided for me, and for a few weeks I felt so good I felt like I was on top of the world. No more, brain zaps, no more excruciating headaches, no more crying episodes. I felt like a new woman. Until two weeks ago, when something, which I am trying to figure out in talk therapy, triggered a severe depression and made me want to push everyone I love, especially my fiancee, away from me. I have been living a new hell. I have begun seeing a psychologist, I had my first session today. She said that it is quite probable, the Paxil that I was on for 12 years numbed out some of my emotions, and that something triggered everything back. She suggested today that I reinstate as I go through this, but you know as shitty as I feel, I refuse to put that into my body again. I am hoping with this talk therapy we can get to the root of all my problems. I am also concerned that I have caused permanent brain damage being on Paxil for so long. I am confused though and not sure what to do. I REALLY don’t want to go on another SSRI. UGH!!! Regardless, I have agreed to see the shrink twice a week, until I get a handle on all of this. I REALLY hope I can do this on my own. I couldn’t go through the withdrawal again!!! Does anyone have any insight on permanent brain damage that Paxil or any other SSRI could cause???
April 16, 2013 at 7:09 pm
That feeling is very common. It’s hard to go through withdrawal without feeling like something has been permanently changed or damaged. That’s not really what’s happened, though.
For a long time, the brain was seen as a static organ. Once we reached young adulthood, it was thought that the brain more or less stayed the same for the rest of our lives. That’s one of the underlying notions behind the chemical imbalance theory of SSRI. The theory is that a permanent imbalance of neurotransmitters, specifically Serotonin, is the cause of depression.
Like many other sciences, neuroscience has made a lot of progress in the last couple decades. Today, the brain is seen as a malleable organ that changes in response to its environment. This theory is called neural plasticity. Your brain is subtly requiring itself as you read this comment. Intuitively, plasticity makes more sense than the static model. The mind isn’t divided into “software” and “hardware” like a computer. The “hardware” changes in response to the world, and that change is the “software” of our thoughts.
SSRI make pretty big changes to the hardware, so it stands to reason that it would have a big impact on our minds. As the drug blocks receptors on neurons, the brain tries to maintain the old balance by producing more receptors. These new ones are in turn blocked by the drug. This spiral of creation and blockage eventually leads to tolerance, where the drug is no longer as effective.
In withdrawal, the Serotonin balance is once again disrupted, this time by the lack of a blocking agent working on the receptors. It takes a while for the brain to realize that it no longer has to fight to upregulate new receptors to combat the effects of the drug. It then takes some more time for the brain to start downregulating all the new receptors its been so busy creating while you were on the drug. It’s a wrenching process that causes wild fluctuations in Serotonin levels until you reach a new equilibrium. Since Serotonin is intimately involved in our emotional and cognitive functions, we get wild fluctuations in mood and cognition as the process happens.
Long story short, no, you haven’t permanently damaged your brain, but it will take some time for your brain to figure out what’s going on and do something about it. Hang in there, your brain is pretty… Smart 🙂 it will get itself put back together eventually.
April 16, 2013 at 9:26 pm
Npanth, I just LOVE the way you speak and articulate yourself. Thank you SO much for this as it gives me hope. I have decided that I don’t think reinstating is going to help me. I am going to do intense talk therapy, along with meditation, and taking some supplements herbal and vitamins. I will also vigorously exercise because that helps too. I just can’t do it again, go on the drug again.
Again, thanks for “listening” and responding. You are amazing!!! 🙂
April 17, 2013 at 5:56 pm
Thanks Lainey, I appreciate that very much. I started writing about withdrawal because I felt compelled to express my experience in some positive way.
The decision whether or not to reinstate is a difficult one. It doesn’t always work, and it can extend the overall time you’re affected by the drug. I’ll be on Paxil a lot longer because I reinstated, but it has improved my symptoms. It’s a balancing act. I hope your symptoms improve soon, we all deserve a break.
May 6, 2016 at 9:11 am
I have been so afraid that I am now permanently altered from SSRI discontinuation. I was discontinued from a medication I was on for 20 years over the course of 3 weeks. I was NEVER told about SSRI discontinuation syndrome. I now have visual disturbances, coordination deficits, cognitive and word finding issues and a feeling of disreality. I reinstated the medication as instructed and have vacillated between serotonin syndrome (nausea, flushing, burning in upper and lower extremities, confusion) and low serotonin levels. I am crying and deeply dysphoric. I’ve had to take a leave from work and am now in jeopardy of losing my job. I am devastated. Do you really believe I will recover? It’s really not damage? It’s just a matter of reaching homeostasis again? I am so concerned. Thank you npanth
May 6, 2016 at 10:59 am
A
Go to the following site.
http://www.survivingantidepresents.org
There are real people there that can explain and help you through this. Please go there. Your condition is very real and it sounds like you need guidance and education.
May 6, 2016 at 12:23 pm
Thank you. Is this recoverable? I was restarted on SSRI therapy but unfortunately this did not make the discontinuation symptoms abate. In your experience how long does it take the CNS to recover and form an equilibrium?
April 16, 2013 at 5:37 am
Npanth & Emma I totally understand the hell you are talking about. The anxiety is extremely debilitating and so real to the sufferer. You feel so hopeless and lonely, but the one thing I tell myself is “its just the withdrawal” and I try to relax and breathe my way through it.
I get so angry at drs over prescribing medication and not telling us the true facts. Npanth Im so glad that you trusted yourself and didn’t get onto any more meds, just imagine if you were on 4?! How are you going with your tapering and when do you expect to be finished?
Emma Im so glad that the things I describe are somewhat of a comfort for you, I have read all your posts and truly believe that you will get there, as you say you were on these drugs for 12 years, that’s a long time and it takes a long time to heal yourself. I remember you saying at the beginning that you were only sleeping a couple of hours a night and now it seems that your getting more. That itself is an improvement, if only a little one. I forgot to mention I also had extreme insomnia. I went for 3 weeks with only minimal sleep and I mean 1-2 hrs if that. But it slowly got better. At times I would get 3-4 and then 4-6 and now I sleep like I used to. The hard thing with withdrawal is that progress is so minimal and you have so many other symptoms that you think you aren’t getting better when really you are. I still have days where I question myself, but I just hang in there, as I know the hell I experienced, is nowhere near how I feel now. Another good tip that I can give you is to write a journal, and write a list of symptoms that you have had and cross them off, one by one as they go or get better. Then you have written proof of your success.
Another thing I can tell you is that the windows and waves, get less intense. I used to have a good couple of hours and then out of nowhere thoughts and feeling would start to come along and it got worse and worse. Now they are very minimal and they aren’t as intense. They are still there, but I can live with them. I try and be mindful of the situation I am in – easier said than done, but it does happen, trust me!
At the moment I feel like Im learning myself all over again, I feel alive again. Whilst on the anti-depressant I lost me, I lost my love of life and became a vegetable. I was always tired, put on a heap of weight and everything was an effort. Now Im loving my cooking again, Im looking forward to things (thats a great feeling) and Im planning my weekends, which is nice.
I also feel that after the things I have experienced, I can handle anything (well almost). It has given me new coping mechanisms and I have learnt again to love life.
As I said I still have issues and I think within the next 6-12months I hope to be fully recovered.
Emma just think if you are having a really rough time at the moment, this could be your turning point. I have read on several forums that this happens. Think positive and don’t give up!!
April 16, 2013 at 6:25 am
thanks mel for another encouraging post, I cant wait to be able to look at life positively I just cant do it at the moment, I try and lie there and think about a happy life with kids, holidays, enjoying my job, family and friends but nothing will get me out of this funk, 6 months ago i still had the ability to look forward to things but now i have no emotion for excitement or annticipation. one minute this morning I was so bad i wantedted to switch off forever and them 4 hours later i feel a bit better but i ruin it by thinking i will die one day rather than thinking i will have a great life one day, i worry i will be permanaetley like this as i was on the drugs for so long. I cant wait for the change to have that you have had, even a 20% improvement would help. I have literaaly written down in a journal what you said all my symptoms and i will tick them off as they go, im glad to hear you sleep got better, I think I get about 4 hours now and sometimes 5. tell me though did you ever have the feeling like waves of terrorr, doom, fear, anxiety, scared come over you. This is the worst thing so far, and i hope yoiu are right most say that the truley bad bit is the sign of things turning, the bummer is i have said that so many times when i thought it couldnt get any worse and then it manages to get worse! SOmetimes i wish there were no windows because the fact that they go and the bad symptoms come back worse means you dont have the time to get used to the bad, it is a cruel trick, and i can see how it should be a glimpse of recovery but it makes the waves seem worse. I truley dont feel one ounce improved on where i have come from, it is all worse, keep encouraging me! x
April 16, 2013 at 6:45 am
Yes yes and yes Emma!!! I have had all of this. For no reason I would get the fear, the doom, and the anxiety. I would be sitting in a room and out of nowhere I would feel panic. I would wake up on days and think I’m agoraphobic, I have OCD, I have bi-polar and the list continues. For a long time I thought I would never get better, I thought my life was not worth living and the thoughts were horrid, I would constantly think about dying and about things happening to my family members – how awful hey!! I would think, why are we even here, whats the point, all that really negative stuff, but I can tell you they get less and less. At Christmas I was my worst when I thought I had already been through the worst. Its a hard thing to cope with and I even developed other symptoms, such as the twitching and just mental blanks – I thought I was getting some type of parkinsons, but again this lasted another couple of months and now I only get it now and then. Truly everything comes and then goes and then I remember “Oh these were some of the symptoms I had at the beginning of withdrawal.
Every time I would get a little stressed I would think that was the end, I was so so anxious and depressed it was horrible and at month 9 it got worse, I thought this is it I have to admit myself to psych ward, but I took one day at a time and just like you waited to go to bed and hope that when I wake up in the morning I would feel a little better.
Only last month I had 3 weeks of waking up stressed but for no reason – I put it down to my brain adjusting, yet AGAIN. Now I still have intrusive thoughts and I see images of horrible things, but they are getting less and less and I let them come and go.I can go about my life, with some ease now. The feelings are getting less intense and honestly the key is to just accept them and let them pass. You just need to think there is nothing I can do but handle this, its just the withdrawal and my brain is re-adjusting.
It is a cruel cruel trick that you see the glimpses of normalness and then bam another wave, but these are good, it means we are healing. The glimpses get us through, they give us hope of what is to come.
How are you going with the Psych guy that your boss is paying for you to see? Is he giving you some insight?
You can do this Emma 🙂
April 16, 2013 at 7:30 pm
I’m at 5mg/day now. I’m not sure when I’ll be all the way off Paxil. I’m holding at my current dose for a while because I made a bigger than normal drop last time (from 6mg/day) I wanted to be able to cut my 10mg pills in half instead of filing them down. My waves are like yours, much more manageable, but still there. I’m determined to go super slow to minimize symptoms. I’ve had enough overwhelming symptoms for a lifetime.
Like you, I’ve gained a lot of coping skills and self awareness in this process that I think will help me going forward. I can’t wait until I’m all the way off. I can’t wait to meet the fully drug free me. The glimpses I’ve had make him seem like a pretty sharp fellow 🙂
April 17, 2013 at 11:29 am
You can make a liquid from those tablets, for more precise measuring, see http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/405-tips-for-tapering-off-paxil-paroxetine/
April 17, 2013 at 6:01 pm
Thanks Altostrata. I tried creating a liquid from the pills, but I found that I prefer splitting and filing. I know it’s not the best or most precise method, but it’s working for me so far.
My doctor flat out refused to prescribe liquid Paxil, preferring to try to convince me to go back to my original dose of Paxil. By the time I found another doctor who was willing to prescribe liquid, I’d gotten used to the filing and weighing method.
I think there’s a bit of superstition involved, too 🙂
April 17, 2013 at 10:52 pm
I’m glad to hear that your taper is going well and that the waves are becoming more manageable for you also. Can I ask how long you have been tapering for?
I totally agree with you, go super slow with the withdrawal, I regret not having gone slow enough, but at the time (6 months into reinstatement) I was going mad with OCD and anxiety. It was pure torture.
Im excited too, about meeting the new versions of us. For the last couple of days I have felt so alive, like how I used to be. Looking forward to what I was doing the next day and enjoying daily activities. I feel human again!
April 18, 2013 at 7:21 pm
I’ve had a bit of a crooked road. I started tapering in June, 2011. I did a very fast taper, going from 40mg/day to zero in 5 months. After two months, i crashed and reinstated. I started back at 10mg/day in January, 2012. I’ve been slow tapering since May, 2012. I’m down to 5mg/day now. I think I extended my total taper by going so fast in the beginning, so my experience is a bit on the long side.
April 18, 2013 at 10:35 pm
Npanth I applaud your commitment to withdrawal and I find your determination an inspiration. Hat off to you!!
April 16, 2013 at 8:13 am
oh thank you mel that is all so encouraging for me, i know you shiouldnt compare stories but to know someone else has been there too helps loads, I have literally cried reading that you too have had that and it has got better and continues too. I thought i was the only person that literally counts the hours down until bedtime, earlier on in withdrarawl i slept 8 hours a night and that was a really good thing to look forward to but becaue this morning I woke up at 3 am with the gushing waves of fear panic and doom I am now scared about sleeping tonight but I am very aware that every nights sleep can be diffrent, on thursday last week, 5 days ago i had an awful day but managed to sleep 6 hours the following night so there is no way to anticipate what is going to happen. I was trying to think this morning that this is ok i feel like this i have to feel like this to get better, but it didnt help at all, i think i am so deep in it all i can do is get through it, anything i chant or say to myself doesnt even touch the sides. It is good to hear that only at christmas you were struggiling and it is more manageable for you now that is quite a quick turnaround, the thing is only on sunday i had a manageable day and as usual i thought this could be it i could get better from her no more rock bottom days and then bam it comes back. I feel like i will never be in a good place and smile again, although i had the giggles on sunday, it seems so far away again today. My shrink is good in the fact that i said to him could i just take some drugs becuse being passable on drugs would be better than the hell i am going through, he said no becuase he thought all i wanted was a quick fix and he was totally right, i do want a quick fix, in reality though i do know the drugs have done this to me but i just want it to be over, and also i know if i was going to start taking a new anti depressant even if it worked in my expereinece it takes me 4 to 6 months to get stable on something and the liklehood is i will be improved somewhat if not a lot by then, and then i settle for a life of ok and never really fixed rather than a life of drug free and stronger that ever. I feel though that it is a myth i am chasing and there is every possibility that wellness will never happen for me, even as i read your story and read all the stuff about it getting better . I havent seen the shrink for 2 weeks as he is on holiday but lucky me i get to see him friday on my birthday, he belives in withdrarawl but wont really let me talk about it becuase he says there is no point in focusing on it when what we have to do is deal with the symptoms it has given me. so rather than talking about time getting me better, he is getting me to get me better by challenging me to do things and this is what i am finding really hard. so everytime there is soemthing i dont want to do i am not to avoid it, so yesterday night i needded to go in to tesco, i thought about not going in as i didnt want to be confronted with people, but i made myself do it, but that is a small thing and that is easy to make myself do, I have also made myself go to dinner with friends that i really didnt want to do, i have just made myself take the rubbish outside even though i didnt want to leave the house, but as i said they are all small things. APparantley the less i avoid the better i will get, and he always hits me with the what is the worst that can happen scenario, and everytime i tell him the worst thing that could happen ( which is i feel the wave of terror and panic and doom whilst in the middle of a meeting or on the bus when alone) he then says to me ok so what is the worst that can happen, and i get his point i am not going to die, and he says it will pass as it does, but sometimes quite truthfully i would rather die than feel that shit in a place i done want to be. 80% of the time i can make myself do things, but days like this and 2 of them last week there was no way i could have drivenn 60 miles to london, parked in a shopping mall, taken a 20 minute bus journey to oxford street and then walked down a packed oxford street (that is what I have to do 2 times a week), i mean my husband is totally sound of mind and even he would hate walking down a busy oxford st. SO today fortunatley i havent had to do it, but on friday I know i have to and that scares the life out of me, although i did it yeaterday and didnt die, but friday i could be sooo much better, but i could also be just as bad!!! All the stuff i read says try not to stop doing everything but at the same time be gentle with yourself, and i feel that he wont let me be gentle with myself at all. SO when i see him this week i will have to tell him that one day last week i couldnt go to work, I still worked, from home but i couldnt do the travelling by myself, if someone was with me the wholetime saying i would be alright or holding my hand when i felt bad i could but i am so scared of being on my own and freaking out, so he will tell me that not doing things drags my recvery out longer but whatever he makes me do and says i still always have in the back of my head i will do the best i can do but also hope at the same time that time will fix me quicker, id make myself do more things than i normally would but i have failed at going to work one day. but if i had a choice i would never go at all and always work from home, god i hope tomorrow is better, i am just exisiting today, 7 more hours until bed, i have gone into the bad again and feel awful x
April 16, 2013 at 9:17 am
was your worst bit 9 months ago your turning point? x
April 16, 2013 at 6:19 pm
When I was at month 9-10 of withdrawal, I can honestly say I was truly at my worst. But after that month, improvements came and they were very gradual and still are
Day to day things got better, but they are so tiny, that we fail to notice them, until we get out of the waves/windows. My windows are getting longer and longer, I can have a solid day now of happiness and it feels great. At my 9-10 month mark (Christmas time) I desperately wished to get better, I honestly thought I was never going to get better. I so wanted to enjoy the holidays with my daughter and husband. Unfortunately it was my worst!
I remember I was crying almost everyday, my family would look at me and think the worst. Id cry in the middle of a shopping centre, I’d cry at work, I just couldn’t control it. But day by day that got better and it really happened after that horrible month. Now I just well up (but mostly at happy things).
I agree with you on AD reinstatement, by the time you stabilize you may have already reached your freedom, if you had of continued on with your struggle. As for me when I reinstated when I was diagnosed with my ‘panic disorder’ the pills did nothing but in fact make me worse. Obviously this is just my story, it may be different for others and I would hate to advise anyone against reinstatement, but personally it did not work for me. I keep reminding myself, I damaged my brain for almost 7 years, even though at fairly low doses for the last several years, but I was still taking the drug. Just imagine if you were on cocaine or heroin for that long?! People have said AD’s are very similar if not worse to withdraw from. So we have to give it time, we just need to heal.
I also think that the psychologist your seeing sounds great, have you ever felt the way you do about leaving your home or going into a shopping centre before going onto AD’s? I never have, so when I had issues about leaving the home, or going into public places, I would remind myself that I never had these issues before and that it was withdrawal just chucking another spanner into the works.
I also pushed myself for my daughter’s sake, I never wanted her to see her mum afraid of going outside or being in public places, so that helped alot.I had to put on the best performances of my life lol! I had to pull myself together for her as I didn’t want to let her down. I believe she was a huge driving force in me getting better. Perhaps when you come across a difficult situation, think of the kids you dream of having. Think of the mother you want to be and how you don’t want your insecurities to be pushed onto them.
Oh and most importantly try to enjoy yourself, go out with friends like you have, do things that you have loved doing and your love and passion will come back (ever so slowly, but it will).
Mel xx
April 17, 2013 at 5:47 pm
I agree, Mel. It’s very hard to decide whether reinstating is a good strategy or not. Withdrawal is so variable, differing for each person, that it’s hard. To say when symptoms will improve.
I reinstated two months after reaching zero. That was a short time, but it still took 3-4 months before I was stable enough to start tapering again. For me, it was the right decision because my recovery would most likely have taken a lot longer. Still, it’s not the right decision for everyone.
April 17, 2013 at 1:54 pm
Hi All, I just need to vent. I am just feeling hopeless. I honestly, don’t know how much more of this I can take. I am so anxious and depressed I can’t take it. I don’t want to reinstate. I just want desperately to get better and to feel like myself again. I miss who I was desperately. I long for her to come back again. I am so sad and on my knees, begging G-d or whoever, to take me out of this misery. I am seeing my shrink tomorrow. It couldn’t come soon enough. If I just could be given one speck or glimmer of hope and a small ray of light, I could hold on to that. I know deep down that I will get through this, and my fiancee tells me I am pressuring myself too much to want to solve it right away, and that Rome wasn’t built in a day, and my logical mind knows that. I am just desperate. I’m desperate to be me again. I read some of your comments about windows, I had a window last night where I felt okay, and have some of those. Then the crap just comes back. It is torture. I just want to be me again.
April 17, 2013 at 6:13 pm
The worst part about withdrawal is that it disconnects your rational mind from your emotional mind. Emotions and thoughts exist in the conscious mind divorced from reason or rationality. Random and negative thoughts just burst to the surface of your mind with no input or control.
Your rational mind is still there, but it’s a bystander during a wave. It’s like watching yourself be possessed. You see it happening, but there’s little you can do to change it. It’s really frustrating. Hang in there, the self control will come back in time, and the effort of re establishing that control will stay with you afterwards.
April 17, 2013 at 7:38 pm
OMG! Exactly!!!! Thank you always Npanth. You’re awesome!
April 18, 2013 at 7:13 pm
Thanks, Lainey 🙂
It really did feel like a bad horror movie. I was watching myself do and say things that were very much out of character. Words just came out of my mouth with no thought. Then, I would feel terrible afterwards, and I would obsessively replay the interaction, whipping myself endlessly. It was a vicious cycle of insensitivity and obsession. I never thought I could be so thoughtless one moment, and so grief stricken the next. Withdrawal sucks.
April 18, 2013 at 8:42 am
OMG today is the worst day ever, this morning i thought i could handle it better but it has been impossible, every 10 minutes i will calm down then i will go into a spin and feel like i need to call someone to take me to hospital or help me even though i dont know how they would help me. The minutes are taking so long to go, i say it every time but today is the absolute worst, i can feel chuffed if i get through today, well not if, i will get through as i have no choice, but once i have done it i live in fear of having to do it again, how can i be this bad, i have never felt anything like it. I am trying so hard to accept it and I think the last wave i just have had i accepted a bit more and it wasnt as sevre but then i think maybe i accepted that wave because it wasnt as bad anyway
as the wave 20 minures before. I am literally counting the minutes until my husband comes home, when the next wave comes i am going to tell myself to accept it, say its not really me, and that it means i am getting better and i am going to try my hardest to belive it, Mel or npanth did you have days when the whole days was filled with constant overwhelming rushes of fear, doom axiety and feeling like you needed to be looked after, and as frequent as every 10 minutes, i need to hang in there but just am finding it so hard, i wish people could spend a day inside my body to know how bad it is, yet still i know i will get better, but getting through is slowley killing me?? x
April 18, 2013 at 10:55 pm
Emma, I have had many of those days. They come and they will go. The best advice I can give you is to keep yourself busy (really busy) so that you don’t concentrate on it too much, else it just drives you nuts. I always found that when I was at home, it made things worse, as I couldn’t escape my thoughts ( I wasn’t occupied enough). I found going to the gym a great outlet. I had to concentrate on what I was doing and I was able to release my anger on the exercise equipment, plus it exhausted me, so I was able to relax a tiny bit more. Apart from that, do things that force you not to think – have conversations, play a video game – I honestly found exercise and conversating with my friends the best because I had to do it, my brain couldn’t take over, if you know what I mean.
Also I found that fish oil (high in DHA and EPA) as well as Rhodiola and a good multivitamin has helped – try GNC they have great supplements and there should be stores in the UK ( I’m in Australia). The fish oil helps with the depression and the Rhodiola helps anxiety they help to stabilise your cortisol levels, which by now would be through the roof with all the anxiety. The multi will just help boost any vitamins and minerals you are deficient in. All the vitamin B’s and magenisum help with anxiety too.I also take a pro-biotic daily as they say most of your serotonin is in your gut and have read elsewhere, that it can help also. These are just tips though, I believe these things have helped me but they may not help others. I have read elsewhere that you shouldn’t take any supplements during withdrawal but who knows??? Each to their own I guess.
Hang in there ok, I’ve also found that during really bad waves they go again as quick they came on. Bliss Johns really helped me cope too – great coping strategies!! Take Care xx
April 18, 2013 at 1:51 am
lainey I am ttotally where you are hang in therer x
April 17, 2013 at 4:54 pm
Take it from some who reinstated and got worse,it’s not worth it.You get a double whammy,sx’s from the Ad/s and they intensify the W/d symptoms 10 fold.I weaned my self off Luvox real quick the second time because,it was literally killing me.
I only got to 6mgs when I got slammed with the worse hell and then tapered off with in the week,if your past the 4 to 5 month
period , you’re better off staying off,I came to the realization last night,that the A/ds are completely gone from my system,but the damage they did is still an on going process,since I had been on them for over 30yrs ,I can’t expect my brain to heal over night,,I now realize that I have to fight every day and it’s not easy,but eventually I will come out on top,I will tell you this,and I know people are going to say it’s wrong,but before my anxiety get’s out of control, I cut it off with what ever amount of X I need ,I have to be stable enough for at least 6 months before I can start my benzo taper.
I’m working with a wonderful psych who is benzo and SSri wise, sympathetic and has told me numerous times,I can get you
off opiates in month,but psych drugs are going to be a long journey,and if you want to get better you have to stabilize first before you try to take on another shock to your nervous system.
So I have changed my regimen to stop the Anxiety before it gets out of hand,because once it does,then what it took to stop it before it go to high will not work,so I am starting to feel better and as soon as I am stable for 6 months I will start the journey to being benzo free, my quality of life sucked big time and I fought it for as long as I could,if x gets me to point b and from point b I go to point a ,getting off psych drugs altogether, why suffer.
This is just me and I don’t advocate what I’m doing to anyone.
My body can metabolize X with very little sx’s and hopefully tapering off x will not be as hard as the ssri’s are.
JAy
April 17, 2013 at 5:54 pm
Thank you Jay, I feel the that reinstating an SSRI will put me on an endless cycle that I feel like I deserve better in my life. I was on 20mg of Paxil for 12 years. Why so long, because nobody told me or suggested to me that I go off. Now, my body is desperately trying to find some kind of normalcy. I have been off of Paxil completely for 2 months. This honestly has been the hardest thing I have ever had to go through, short of my parents getting divorced when I was a kid.
Good luck to you Jay, I hope you can soon be clean of all of the meds that you’re on. It sounds like you’re on a good path with a good shrink. Good thoughts and love to you!
April 17, 2013 at 8:39 pm
Hi Lainey,if you get a chance you should read what has been posted here,people here are going through different phases of withdrawal, some are doing good ,some are hanging in there and some are having a terrible time.
Your journey has just begun and the best advice I can give you is, fight like hell and try to keep your mind occupied with good thoughts,this has been a problem with me and I think others, intrusive thoughts,cause anxiety which starts the cycle of omg what is wrong with me,what if they missed something,I can tell you from experience that I have been down this road many times,i’m still here ,I’m still having anxiety and probably will have for sometime to come.
I try to put myself in a different place or keep my mind occupied,this isn’t easy but I find that it helps.
also keep posting here,the people here are great and understand what your going through.
I wish you well in your recovery, as we all do.
Jay
April 18, 2013 at 7:16 pm
That’s good advice, Jay. Hang in there. You’ve been through a tough up and down lately. Give yourself a chance to get back some equilibrium. I hope you feel better soon. You have all the mental tools to make recovery happen, you just need a neuro break to get it started.
April 17, 2013 at 11:00 pm
Keep on going Lainey, you can do this! Keep on living day to day and take on each feeling/emotion as it strikes. As you say you have been on these drugs for 12 years, it will take a while for you brain to readjust and rebuild. You will get the old you back, better and stronger than before.
I was told, when given my first prescription of Lexapro that I would only be on them for 3-6 months HA! Such lies, I couldn’t get off the damn things! I am getting better every month, with small incremental improvements, but I am getting there and so will you.
Keep hanging on 🙂
April 20, 2013 at 8:07 pm
Thank you all SOOOOOO very much. I am going to keep going, with help from two visits at the shrink per week, I also take a meditation class once a week too. Also, forcing myself to work out, when I’d really rather non. Trying to do good things to get myself better. I do believe there is a light at the end of the tunnel, it is what keeps me going and you better believe that there will be much celebrating when this happens. Thanks again everyone!
April 25, 2013 at 2:28 am
Hi guys, well i have been up and down it seems like i have one good day and one bad day and then 2 bad days and 1 good day, it is still killing me, I keep trying to accept how i am feeling but i know no matter how hard i try to accept it i knw in my heart of hearts i am fighting it because i am constatley hoping it will be the last time i feel that bad, i am, going to ask my shrink today what will happen if i cant accept my feelings will i never get better. I lay in bed at 3am this morning feeling so anxious and head done in that I thought i needed hospital, it is never ending i dont think i can take anymore i can see no end to this at all, i have been thinking about drugs again, my shrink says i dont belive in his method and its not his method, i dont beliveve in any method for getting better, i cannot see me getting better. I have been sick this morning and i am forcing myself to drive the 60 miles to work, im assuming doing that going to work is the only way i can accept how i am feeling if i cant truley sit there and accept it. My body and head is soooooo tired. I have pushed myself so much, I went to friends for the weekend which was ok but the whole time i was there i was scared i would have a turn, and then on Monday i felt awful, I am not supposed to label it as awful i am supposed to say i felt that emtional state, then tuesday i was not too bad, i made it throught the day without a turn and in the evening i was so relaxed i watched tv which i rarely do, but then yesterday was bad again i had a freak out in the city i was on my own my legs were shaking i thought i wouldnt be able to get home but i made it through those feelings and was alright for a few hours, got home safely and then felt really bad again when home, but i cant see that as a triumph! I am supposed to be seeing my shrink today but i dont think i can do the 60 miles and bus journey to see him, (im going to try my hardest) i keep saying what is the worst that can happenn but i hate it, please someone tell me this is withdrarawl not anxiety that i am goig to have to live with for the rest of my life, I am more scared of having extreme anxiety thatn i am of withdrarawl because i have come to belive withdrarawl will pass i dont believe anxiety will ever go x
April 25, 2013 at 7:34 pm
To a certain extent, this part of withdrawal is more waiting than effort. It’s still helpful to try to extend yourself and face your anxiety, but it’s almost like waiting for a sprained ankle to heal. You can do some light exercise to help the process along, but the big thing you have to do is wait for the healing to take place before you can really start pushing it.
Hang in there, you’ll get better, I’m sure of it. you have the right attitude and determination. The efforts you’re making now will pay dividends. Keep trying, it WILL pay off in the long run. I think of you a lot and hope you turn the corner soon.
April 25, 2013 at 11:07 pm
I couldn’t agree more with npanth and that is exactly what it is like. You just have to hang in there and soon enough you will see the progress and you will realize, that the anxieties you are having are not real. I had a lot of anxiety, severe anxiety. Things I was never anxious about before, even the littlest things would make me anxious and i would think and re-think everything. However now 12 months down the track, when those same issues arise – they don’t stress me at all. Its almost like the anxiety switch has been switched off and things don’t feel so horribly overwhelming as they used to.
I think the hardest thing is, is that you don’t realize your progress in the midst of withdrawal, until your over that certain aspect of the withdrawal. These days I remember things, like symptoms, worries or feelings and I notice that I haven’t had these or don’t feel these things anymore – and you will have this too Emma. Stay strong and fight for yourself x
May 9, 2013 at 11:07 am
Finding the right psych to work with is so impportant. My son has been unable to do so, and it is really hindering his healing process. Can you give the name of the psych? location? Perhaps he/she could recommend someone in the Boston area.
May 11, 2013 at 3:45 pm
I’m sorry I didn’t respond faster, abmabardy, it’s been a busy couple days.
I have known Dr. Joan Moreau for many years. She is very helpful and has a good treatment style when it comes to withdrawal type issues. She is primarily a child and young adult therapist.
You can see her bio here
http://lewisburgcounseling.com/joan.php
April 18, 2013 at 2:46 am
so after my postings on tuesday, and i got to the point late in the evening that i thought i needed to be hospitalised, i even looked at how to get yourself commited on the internet, I ended up having a totally manageable Wednesday, to go from where i was tuesday to be able to go to work in london on wednesday and be manageable is the proof i need that this is withdrarawl, there could be nothing else that makes it so up and down. So i had a good day, i went to sleep hoping today would be the same but as the nature of this goes i woke up at 3 am feeling the awfulness again, anxiety, fear , doom, insane, it is horrible, again luckily today I am working from home. I feel more positive that i can fight this today, well not fight it because i know im not supposed to fight it but just live through it today. I have done it so many times before. It is so cruel. I have spent a lot of time thinking about what is happening to me and i looked back at the diaries i was keeping 4 to 6 months ago and all though i didnt have what i would call the awfulness i have now, the sudden rush of doom, fear and anxiety and depression, but what i did have which was cluttered head, doom and fear was not as intense but more frequent, so what i am going through at the moment is the most intense ever and actually stops me in my tracks but there are more frequency of windows and i think the windows are better, i am not sure though but i think that is what is happening, feeling much worse but not as long as when i felt just bad all the time. does that make sense? I have gotten through 5 nights in the last 2 weeks of my husband being away which was a massive fear of mine, I have been staying at my sisters but it is still a big thim for me not to have him here as he is my crutch. and i am still not scared of being alone and i was before, but on the other hand the bad feelings are worse. Yesterday on my good day i started planning in my head people i wanted to see things i wanted to do and i know i am ok because i dont text my husband saying i feel bad and i dont come on here. Its so unfair that yesterday i wanted to see people, make plans and today i am back at going into hiding!!! when will this all get better for me?? I am seeing my psychtrist tomorrow for the first time in 2 weeks so i am hoping that will help and that he will say the more intense the more the healing as he has said that before, but i do want to ask him why i have got sooooo bad. If it was anxiety on its own i could handle that, its when my head feels insane at the same time i hate it, i truley dont know how i am still alive. Mel in answer to your question i was not agrophobic or scared of things before the drugs, i wasnt even depressed, so i know it is the drugs and i do belivev i will get better but what is the hardest part is getting through the horrible feelings, i am tired and just want to go to sleep but if i even shut my eyes for a nap i wake up totally startled and freaking out 5 minutes later, its not worth the scariness. I have accupuncture this morning and i hope that may help calm me down, I cannot tell you how much money i spend on alternative treatments, and i dont even know if it is making things better or worse, anyway I am doing what Bliss Johnson has said to do in her book recovery and renewal “say okay here we go again, its back, ah well at least i know what it is. hmmmm….feels like im petrefied but im not really, wow look how shaky i am, i dont need to do anything. I know what it is and it will soon pass” so that is what i try and do and it does pass but it comes back as quick as it passes. Wish me luck people, i need to get through this, Mel its great that you have come on here your story so far is very encouraging i hope i follow your path and sooner rather than later and npanth as always encouraging and jay too x
April 22, 2013 at 3:49 pm
I’ve read most these posts but not all so I apologize if this is redundant in any way. My problem, and it seems similar to everything I’ve read here, is that I only took Zoloft for a month and I’m experiencing the withdrawals. Most mornings I have adrenaline/anxiety spikes and then I have either a window or a wave. I do have a history of taking effexor and having severe withdrawals coming off of that about 3 years ago. What was I thinking? I should have known another psych med would be tough on me but after a vehicular accident in February I had severe anxiety. I should stop and mention I’m not convinced this was a “natural” anxiety and I think it may have been narcotic withdrawal symptoms. Being a little out of it and looking for answers I asked the doc for some zoloft. After 3 more weeks of anxiety I had one good week. I was pretty happy and thought the zoloft was working. And then the anxiety came back. But to be honest the anxiety felt more like anxiety and not this other anxiety-slash-narcotc-withdrawal. So not knowing what was going on I decided to get off everything and went pretty much cold turkey. I was actually taking ativan, zoloft, oxycodone and tramadol at some point in the last 2.5 months. At this point I’ve been without the zoloft for 4 weeks and off everything (tramadol, ativan) for around 2 weeks. I never really took anything regular except the zoloft and narcotics. I only took the zoloft for a month and the narcotics were for about 10 days back in February. I took a LOT of narcotics IMO. The ativan I took on days I couldn’t stand it and the tramadol was the same but for pain. So the question is, am I in the window/wave cycle? I was having a pretty bad day today but oddly as I write this I think I feel a window opening. I apologize for being so scatter brained with this post but that is how I feel sometimes these days. Let me outline this below.
– Had car accident with ER visit.
– Took oxycodone, oxycotin, hydrocodone for 10 days to 2 weeks. About 80mgs of something a day.
– Started to feel anxiety (or maybe withdrwals) 3-5 days after my last day of narcs.
– After 2 weeks of suffering I got some zoloft and ativan. Took 1mg of ativan on the days I couldn’t stand it. One day I took 2mgs.
– 3 weeks after I started zoloft felt good, the clouds parted, the angels sang. Lasted about a week.
– Somewhere in here I got some tramadol and took it sparingly as I know about the seratonin syndrome.
– On the 4th week of zoloft I had bad anxiety. I went a few more days where I actually upped from 50mgs to 100mgs of zoloft.
– Took the tramadol some days as it actually helped the anxiety (and pain).
– Other days I took the ativan.
– The end of 4th week I stopped taking everything because I finally realized how ridiculous this all was.
– I barely weaned myself off the zoloft. Took a 50 one day, about 25mg for a couple more days.
– I have been completely drug free about 2 weeks and about 4 weeks since the last dose of zoloft.
So while I took a bunch of crap it never seemed like I took a lot of anything that would cause withdrawals. Looking back at this I have got to think I screwed my system up but I’d really like to hear from others with a similar story or more knowledge on this than the doctors. I keep thinking the zoloft stint was pretty short. I never got addicted to benzos (I don’t think). And the tramadol I took maybe a dozen times in two months. Sorry this is so long.
April 22, 2013 at 6:05 pm
Withdrawal can be caused by a lot of different things. Most of the folks who post here have withdrawal after long term use of one or two drugs. It can also be caused by short term use at a high dose or meds with varying effects, though. I think you fall into this latter category. The drugs you mention have complimentary and conflicting effects. Some of them do similar things, others affect different systems, and some conflict. They don’t conflict with each other directly, in a way that would cause detectable symptoms, but they will cross pollinate each other in withdrawal. You have some opioids, some benzos, some SSRI. It looks like you were increasing the release of Serotonin (tramidol) while decreasing the absorption of Serotonin and norepinephrine (Zoloft). I’m not as familiar with the effects of some of the opioids, just the blurbs I’ve read. Opioids can cause anxiety and irritability, though.
Usually, the best advice after a short taper is to reinstate to the last drug and do a slower taper. Your case seems to be a little different. If you can, try to stick it out. The big advantage you have is that your treatment period was short. Short term use usually means short term withdrawal symptoms. I don’t have a lot of experience with this kind of poly drugging, though. I think you should repost this over at http://www.paxilprogress.org or http://www.survivingantidepressants.org. There are folks on those sites who can give you better advice than I can. I’m not trying to pass you off to someone else, I just don’t want to give you bad advice because I lack specific knowledge.
I hope you feel better soon. It’s kind of a rotten thing to go from one trauma like a car accident to a drug interaction problem.
April 29, 2013 at 1:40 am
it has got so bad, i have realised it is panic attacks i am having, and that was what i was originally treated for 15 years ago so i think it is old symptoms returning. I cant handle it, it is soo bad, i had massive panic in supermarket yesterday and at home and all through a movie at the cinema it was torture, and i know i survived but that is not good enough for me, i need to feel ok i cant take this anymore everytime i think it cant get any worse it does, so finally last night i went to bed, the only thing i look forward to with the hope that i will get better during the sleep and wake up a little better, but it doesnt happen, this morning i woke up at 1am panicing and then that was it until 6am when i got up, i cant go to work i dont feel safe in control of a car, and i cant face the thought of being with people but if the office was next door to my house i would give it a go. i am doing exactley what my shrink has told me not to do, i am avoiding and i have avioded going to work, i am working from home but im still avoiding leaving the house, it is torture, I have had to call my sister to make sure she is around if i need her as i just dont know what is going to happen to me. I swear I cant take much more my life is non existint, my husband is rundown from my issues, we have no life, I want to leave this planet (not suicidal dont worry) but i need this to end. When is it going to get better, I am trying to believe i will get better but when i am in it i cannot believe it at all, I am sat here waitinfg for the panic to come again. I really really really think i need to take some drugs before i finally go insane and cant take anymore, I know i am getting through everyday but i will end up loosing my job if i dont go and that still isnt enough to pull me out of it I WANT TO BE BETTER x
April 29, 2013 at 3:14 am
Hi Emma, I had a panic attack in work at the end of March and was off work for 5 weeks, I have gone back on Efexor that was my first AD that I withdrew from last August. I couldn’t go on any longer feeling the way I was feeling, I know the main reason I went off the AD in the first place was to get pregnant but that has not happened mainly down to the way I have been. I don’t want to be on this AD forever but I needed to reinstate it with a view to getting of it very very slowly and getting my life back on track and starting to eat healthy and exercise more while I am taking it. I just have to accept that I may be on this drug when I get pregnant but I just have to put that worry to the back of my mind, thousands of women have been on different drugs etc when there were pregnant and their babies were fine so its a chance I have to take. You need to put yourself first and do what is best for you xxx
April 29, 2013 at 4:03 am
Hi SInead thanks for this, please tell me did you start to feel better, i dont mind taking drugs if i feel better, i cant take much more, and if i am not in a panic i am so depressed worrying about it, there is not get out way. I have an appointment with my shrink this week with my husband too and i have asked to disscuss with him reinstatement, i hope i dont have to but i cant survive much longer, i am not in a panic as i write this but i am so worried and scared it is just as bad. I would take a drug while pregnant if i feel better, i am thinking of taking something and then coming off super super slow unlike last time in 4 weeks, Npanth I know you reinstateed too and lots of people have had too, i just dont want to ever go through this again, so if i take the drugs iw ill have to face this again o, i am so torn about what to do, i really want to keep going and be me without drugs but i cant love this way, maybe the change will happen tomorrow and i wont have to reinstate x
April 29, 2013 at 9:21 am
Reinstating is a really hard decision. It puts a lot of other things on hold. It does sound like you’re having a lot of difficulty getting through the panic part of withdrawal. It’s so hard to separate the panic that is caused by withdrawal and that which is inherent to an existing condition. The panic is the same, it’s the scale that’s different, and it’s very hard to gauge things on a scale during withdrawal.
I would lean towards reinstating, but that’s a risk, too. It would most likely be a while before you got stable. The bigger symptoms should go away fairly quickly, but there is an adjustment period as you get back on the drug.
It would be an indication as to the cause of your panic, though. If your panic largely subsides within a few days or a week, that would point to withdrawal as the cause of your attacks. If the panic is caused by a lack of the drug, then giving our brain the drug will satisfy it. Normally, SSRI take about 4-6 weeks to reach therapeutic levels in the brain. If your panic takes a month or so to go away, that would indicate that it is a manifestation of an existing condition.
When I reinstated, the panic and severe depression became much more manageable within the first week. I still had variable moods and waves. It took a couple months before I felt stable enough to start tapering again. In my case, the panic, anger, and depression were related to withdrawal because I would have started exhibiting those symptoms again as my dose got lower, but I haven’t.
April 29, 2013 at 10:03 am
everything is a risk, none of us have the answers as to how long withdrarawl will last, if it is withdrarawl or if reinstating is a a good or bad thing, all i can think is if i feel so bad everyday almost that i want to be dead then something has to be done. Strange though when I made the decesion today i started to feel better, its almost like if i have a perscription under my pillow it might be alrite to get me through, I will see as I am seeing my shrink Thursday with my husband, my husband who thinks i should keep going but no one knows how bad i feel, and nothing is forever if i reinstate it doesnt mean the end of my world, my thinking is not to reinstate but to try tryclyclis that you can get preganant on and that i was on years ago and fine, when i went to the shrink 13 months ago and asked to come off everything i told him it was because i wanted a clean slate as i didnt know what was working, i did say it wasnt because i would never take drugs again i just wanted t know if they worked and if i needed them, maybe i do need them, who will ever know, I am hoping that a perscription and not actually taking them will be enough for me, if the panic and anxiety was only in my body not my head i could handle it, as i type this i am anxious in my body but i can sooooo get over that, it is when i feel it in my head too and it is all consuming that i cant take anymore, i went to the cinema last night and it was sheer torure. There has to be other options , How do we know any of this for sure? Thanks for commenting your thoughts are invaluable npanth and sinead, any other thoughts let me know x
April 30, 2013 at 6:14 pm
I used to feel like this all the time too Emma, I was in constant panic and the depression was crippling. I have been where you are and I have had months of feeling like I wanted to die or just be non existent. Now when I look back, I think gee if this a chemical induced depression, I wonder what a normal one is. If I can handle this, I’ll be able to handle anything.
I also had panic attacks – they are the worst, but you need to learn how to control them. There is a great book called ‘Living with It’ by Bev Aisbett, its a survivor’s guide to panic attacks and it really makes sense.
I think the hardest thing is, is when you’re waiting for your next panic attack to come – I used to get angry with myself and say to myself ‘no I am not doing this now, I am making this happen, I can make it stop’ and of course breathing your way through it helps also. You have to tell yourself that yes its normal to get into a panic every now and then, but the anxiety and panic you experience now is withdrawal.
The best thing during withdrawal is to manage your symptoms and talking to yourself is one of the best things you can do. You know what you were like prior to the drugs and you need to remind yourself of that.
Npanth the main thing I still struggle with are mental images or thoughts – Im not sure if anyone else gets these or how to explain it, but images just pop into my head for no apparent reason and they are of horrible things. They have gotten better and their intensity have decreased, however I still struggle with them from time to time and I wonder why they pop into my head and I get anxious. I do try to just ignore them now, but why does this happen?
May 4, 2013 at 7:56 am
I describe the mind as having two parts when it comes to withdrawal. There is the intellect and the… Id, for lack of a better word. In normal thought, the entire range of emotion is coursing through our minds. We aren’t really aware of the irrational and psychotic thoughts because our intellect has become so adept at filtering them out.
Withdrawal decouples the intellect from the id. Instead of filtering thoughts, the thinking mind is just an observer. Irrational thoughts have free play during withdrawal.
As you said about being mindful of panic, we have to be mindful about the other thoughts we have. I had to slowly pick my way through every thought for a while. As you say, it does get better in time.
At this point, I have to be mindful to catch those thoughts more often than I have to be mindful to avoid them. Is a good feeling. You’ll get there, too 🙂
April 29, 2013 at 6:53 pm
Npanth, I am repeating myself but I think there were many discussions about reinstating after the period of 2/3 ms. Am I not right? May be I am making a big mistake to reject what the doctors want me to do – to go on the same drug. It’s been a long time since I stopped (over a year already) and I am really scared that if this drug wouldn’t work there won’t be any way out of it. The doctors say (with a grain of sarcasm) that if it’s withdrawal the same drug should take care of the symptoms then. But is not that true that brain is changing continuously during withdrawal process and what worked a long time ago may not fit now? Please, elaborate on that if you could. Thank you
April 30, 2013 at 4:10 pm
It’s true that it gets harder to reinstate as the interval between stopping and reinstating gets longer. Reinstating after a short time, a month or two, gives almost immediate relief because you’re feeding an active addiction. As time goes by, there’s less of that active addiction to satisfy. Instead, you’re trying to relieve the imbalance imposed by the drug, which is a longer term thing. The brain adjusts to an SSRI by trying to re establish the old balance of neurotransmitters. In so doing, it comes to “rely” on the drug being present as a thumb on the neurotransmitter scale.
Once the drug is removed, the brain starts to revert back to its old ways of regulating transmitters. That causes a lot of the chaos we’re so familiar with. Reinstating after a long interval puts the brain back into flux again.
The startup period for most SSRI is about 4-6 weeks. Since there have already been some changes in the brain from usage, stopping, and then reinstating, it can take longer to get stable again. How long is frustratingly unique to each person.
By changes in the brain, I don’t mean the kind you’d get from an overdose or brain surgery, but rather the neural plasticity that the brain uses to adjust to environmental situations and even daily thoughts. The mechanism is similar to the way you pick up a new habit, learn to type, even walk. The brain has adjusted itself to account for the presence of the drug. SSRI make large changes in neurotransmitter production and retention, so it takes a while for the brain to reorganize itself after starting or stopping the drug.
April 29, 2013 at 5:48 am
Hi Emma, I am starting to feel better, I hope to adopt a better way of life now along with re-instating, I want to be fit and healthy while on these tablets so that I can manage weaning off them slowly, I did it all wrong the last time, life is too short to be suffering so much. I am not going to dwell on what happened but just look forward. Get myself back feeling like myself and see what happens. I could keep on beating myself up about going off the tablets so quick but I didn’t know what the withdrawal would be like, now I am alot more wiser to it and will be alot more careful but I need to be feeling good before I can do it xx
April 29, 2013 at 6:45 pm
Hello, everybody, I haven’t posted for a long time since I got so much worse after an infection I came down with in the middle of March (before I thought that as bad as it had been for me for a 1,5 there is no way to get any worse but I was mistaken – there is probably always some room to go even lower, unfortunately), I couldn’t cope with that terrible condition any longer, completely lost sleep, went to ER twice and was hospitalized. They started me on many drugs, of course – for depression, anxiety and insomnia. The only thing I resisted adamantly to be put on SSRI/SNRI which they insisted (suggesting that I’d go on the same drug – Cymbalta). Of course, the doctors at the hospital were as expected ignorant of withdrawal and arrogant enough to dismiss it right away, not even wanting to take a look at the scientific article that many of you, probably, aware of. The same sad story again – they wouldn’t give a thought that brain chemistry might have changed since I got off. It’s too complicated for them to go into that stuff and study and analyze something they don’t know. My question is for you, Sinead, – how long you’ve been off of the drug and for how long you’ve been taking it since reinstatement before you feel any improvement? I was and still am so scared of reinstatement after such a long time b/c people reported that the response could be so unpredictable, just the opposite of what is expected to happen after starting on the same AD in awhile. I am also taking Buspar for anxiety. Both drugs haven’t any effect on me so far. What I really worried about that I am also on Klonopin – a highly addictive benzo. I was hoping that the long-term drugs would start working and I’d be able to taper off of Klonopin. But I am stuck with this dangerous drug for the fourth week already and scared that I’d get additional withdrawal on top of the horrible one that I’ve been going through. I’d appreciate everybody’s input on that subject.
April 29, 2013 at 10:23 am
I know everyone is different but I felt a great sense of relief after going over and over thinking about re-instating when I finally decided to, this time it will all be on my terms and I will know what to do when it comes to weaning off slowly. If someone could see into the future and tell me exactly when I would feel better then I wouldn’t of re-instated but no one can tell us this, at least this way I will go down very slowly like npanth and take all my experience I have to make it as smooth a process as I can and start to enjoy life agaiin in the meantime xxx
April 29, 2013 at 11:45 am
hi sinead can i ask you something, my biggest fear, when you started taking the drug again did it make you feel worse?? I cant fathom feeling anyworse than i do now, the oonly thing worse would be dieing so i hope it cant get any worse, when i took them before i was overweight, smoking and drinking lots, now i dont smoke, drink and i am super thin and ultra healthy which might give them more of a chance for sorting me out to start again, i need a life not a fight. I agree 100% with what you are saying, i will get back to enjoying life and then come off slower than anything like npanth instead of the 4 weeks i took last time to come off 12 years of drugs, my dad said to me today he has thought for a while now i should reinstate and try again slower x
April 29, 2013 at 2:26 pm
Hi Emma, I had a couple of thoughts as I’ve been reading your posts. First of all, I am so very sorry that you are going through such torture. I have been going through some pretty brutal emotional withdrawals myself, the biggest one is wanting to push my fiancee away, when he’s done nothing wrong or nothing to me. It is extremely painful and confusing. I’m also feeling depressed and my sleeping is always interrupted as I wake up feeling anxious a few times during the night. I am going to a shrink twice a week because I am desperate for some resolution. She had brought up re-instating but as painful as all of this is and as tortured as I feel, I want to work through these things not medicated. I really believe that these feelings that I have are trying to tell me something and is my mind, and bodies way of working through all of my shit, which is a lot. I really feel like through therapy, I can get to the root of these feelings and will grow, and finally be free. I really believe I can be free. But it’s hard work. However, if you feel that it is too much, maybe try Zoloft. It has the lowest incidences of autism in children, and it is the safest SSRI when trying to get pregnant, according to the psychiatrist that “weaned” me off of Paxil. I also understand that a lot of folks who re-instate the meds are not as effective. If you could work through your underlying issues and get to the root of your pain, you will be free too. I wish this for you and for myself. I am with you sister, and understand what you’re going through. Hang in there, and if you feel like you can’t talk to your doctor about Zoloft. Sending you lot’s of love and support.
April 30, 2013 at 4:17 pm
Lainey, it’s very common to overreact to people during withdrawal. I tried to push my friends away, too. It feels like it was some combination of martyred misery and a desire to spare them what I was going through. Try your best to explain that it’s not really “you” that’s pushing the, away. It’s a complex set of physical and emotional forces that are pulling you in several directions at once. Withdrawal breaks a lot of bonds unnecessarily. As hard as it is to tell yourself that it will get better in the long term, it’s just as hard for someone else to believe that you’ll get better, too. I feel lucky that I didn’t burn too many bridges while I was at my worst, but I can see how easy it would be to say just the wrong thing at just the wrong time… and perhaps even feel like I meant to do it at the time.
April 30, 2013 at 5:12 pm
Hello people,it’s been awhile.
I had to read all the post before I make mine.
I have been up and down so much these last 4 months that i don’t know if I’m coming or going.
I’m working with a APRN and she is very understanding,but has also told me that ,what are you hoping for?
I told her I want to be the way I was before I got hurt,she told me the only way that’s going to happen is, to turn back time.
Well we all know that ain’t gonna happen,so what’s the next best thing,I have little windows here and there,I’ve tried reinstating with disastrous results,I have upped and lowered X to try and cut off the anxiety and when I do that, I am a zombie for days and brain fog and rebound anxiety is unbelievable,Before my C/t from luvox a psych had me try 7 different drugs of which I reacted to all of them.There is no scientific proof one way or the other that our brains have not been damaged beyond repair,I have read where people have been off the drugs for years doing good only to be hit with symptoms of withdrawal again.
I believe that had I not listened to my last Psych and stayed on the small dose of 25mg of luvox,I would have stood a better chance of dealing with the S/xs of the ssri’s,with a slow tapper, but now it is to late for me,i can not take any AD’s because I am a sub metabolizer and the enzymes that break down these drugs make it almost impossible to tolerate.
The only thing that my body breaks down with no problem is Xanax,this is a fine mess all these psychs have put me in.
I say do what you have to do to make your Quality of life better,if it means reinstating do it,if it means taking a xtra X o knock down that panic attack or anxiety go for it,your system is in the worse state of shock right now,and until you can get stabilized you are going to did yourself deeper into the hole.
Why some people can get off with little or no s/xs is as unique as the drugs them selves,some of us unfortunately will
have to take a small maintenance dosage for a better QOL ,it sucks I know,but after sifting through thousands of cases and data,there are very few success stories.I don’t know the answer but if you believe in yourself and have a strong will to survive ,you may just be one of those success stories.
Jay
May 4, 2013 at 7:27 am
Hey Jay, I’m glad to hear from you again. I agree that quality of life is the most important thing. It’s hard to explain, but I would almost say that how you taper off these meds is almost as important as getting off them n the first place. A better quality of life is the original reason for wanting to wean off them.
I’ve run into the same thing where it seems like the continuing withdrawal problems outnumber the success stories. Several people have come here and message boards for advice, but left soon after. I think it’s caused by success. The incentive to move on is just as powerful as the incentive to seek out answered while in withdrawal. It’s hard to tell, but I would say that more people get over withdrawal than have lasting problems. As weird as it may sound, I hope that most people who post here will eventually go away (because they get better and don’t have to post anymore)
Keep plugging away, Jay. You were on the polydrug roller coaster for a while.
May 1, 2013 at 7:13 pm
Hi everyone,
I am new to this site and new to this problem, and I wonder if anyone could kind of condense some advice, experience, and information for me? I really appreciate it.
I am a middle-aged woman who took Lexapro 10 mg. for about 17 months for an episode of anxiety/depression which was due to a long term issue with raising special needs children – I had reached my limit of being able to cope and hoped that the meds would help.
Long story short, I went to the pharmacy to fill an rx for my daughter, and while there filled my lexapro. I had been trying to wean/taper off of the lexapro for a while, but never could get past a certain point with self withdrawal. If i skipped more than one pill, I would get the good old brain zaps, so I continued to take it. Anyway, when I looked for the bottle of medicine the day after I filled it, it had disappeared….completely. It must have accidentally gone into the trash.The pharmacy wouldn’t refill it for me, of course, so I foolishly decided to go off of it, once and for all….cold turkey.
Fast forward ten days until today – It has been really tough, and if I had had any idea of what would be coming my way, I would have sought other options of course! The worst for me are the “zaps”, which are sometimes almost constant. I also experience disrupted sleep and vivid dreams, and an overwhelming fatigue, and perhaps a bit of nausea, but no other terrible side effects so far.
After making it this far, I am wondering…should I stay the course? That would be my preference, although I don’t know what to expect next. Will the symptoms likely get worse after ten days out? If so, I may have to reconsider – I am feeling kind of lousy, as you all know. I am scared to go back on it and to have to deal with weaning again. Also, is there any easy answer to how long these symptoms will last, as an average? Is there anything else that I can do, take, or not do to help ease the journey? I take melatonin 5 mg. at bedtime to help sleep. I have found that motrin seems to take the edge off of the zaps, but only slightly, and I am concerned about taking 600 mg. of it on a regular basis, if there is no end in sight?
I know now that it was VERY foolish to quit taking lexapro cold turkey, but I am trying to get through it and get better. I appreciate any and all advice, and I am so grateful for your wisdom!
May 1, 2013 at 8:20 pm
Most doctors will undetstand if you tell them you lost a medicine bottle once. Prior to going through undoo stress and pain arm yourself with how to “correctly” taper “VERY VERY SLOWLY”. Do a quick search and you will find lots of info on tapering. Arm yourself with knowledge befor you jump in head first to withdrawl hell. Mental preparedness is also very very very very very important.
If I was armed with what I no know and the intensity that acute withdrawl from cold turkey can so insensitively do to a person I would change the way I withdrew.
I no I didn’t directly answer your questions and I am very sorry for that. Answers to this condition are very hard to come by and you will ultimately be the one who answers your own questions.
May 4, 2013 at 8:19 am
Zaps are usually the first symptom. Withdrawal usually progresses into anxiety, anger and depression from there. It’s not universal. Some people have zaps for a little while, then get better. Other people have extended withdrawal.
The short list of advice is
-don’t skip days, that puts you into on again, off again withdrawal
-taper very slowly. Going very slowly minimizes symptoms.
-try to be mindful of your emotions/feelings. Your intellect won’t filter your emotions like normal, it takes more effort to keep control
-try not to berate yourself if you slip and say/do something you regret, it’s very common in withdrawal.
-you don’t have brain damage
-try to push the boundaries of isolation, but don’t feel bad if you have to withdrawal from life from time to time.
-don’t obsess about obsessing over withdrawal. It’s natural to think about it all the time for a while. It should go away by itself.
-patience is the hardest thing to have in withdrawal. Time is the most healing thing in withdrawal, and the hardest thing to wait for
That’s a short list, I hope you feel better soon.
May 3, 2013 at 6:17 am
hi guys just going to let you know where i am at and then i will be awya for a while i am sure. I had the worst happen to me wednesday morning after 3 days of 1 hour sleep and 24 hours of panic and anxiety i had to ask my husbabnd to take me to my parents because i was sure i would do something to myself if i was alone, it was like i had given up the anxiety and fear had no relief, we disscussed going to hospital but luckinly i got an appointment with a private psychtrist that day, I have been sedated and given AD, they said it was not withdrarawl, but i believe it was withdraraw and underlying anxiety i have always had and the fact that i pushed myself to the extreme, remember I came off of 13 years of ssri in 4 weeks, i could not live the way i was anymore, so here i am, i will try again when stable, life is too imprtant to waste this much literally clinging on for dear life, i felt just like you jay. Sinead i am doing what you are doing and npanth you too, good luck guys my private email is etolliday(AT)hotmail(DOT)com if anyone wants to stay in touch x
May 4, 2013 at 8:26 am
I agree, Emma. Quality of life is the most important thing in withdrawal, almost more important than getting off the drug in the first place. Go as slow as you need to, you’ll get there, for sure.
I edited your post to take out the email link. Bots look for those links on webpages and use the info to send spam/phishing emails.
May 4, 2013 at 8:43 am
Thanks npanth it just got unbearable and not an exaggeration to say it was life or death, in the last 2 days I have had sleep amd food more than I have had in weeks and weeks, I had the whole talk, you may need these all your life talk and there is no way this is withdrawal talk but I still believe it was extreme withdrawal mixed with original anxiety. I am not giving up on ever coming off, no way, I will at the slowest pace ever, but if they make me feel better I need to take them for now. When I am ready to taper I will be back, I have an appointment with my original psychitrist next week and I am going to tell him when I am stable I want a plan. The good thing is I am not back on paroxetine so I will never have to go through the hell of coming off that again, maybe this is all still part of my road to recovery, I am fully aware of people who have had to take a step back to go forward. I also believe the pushing myself made it all blow up even worse, before I got help I went to the cinema the day before with my husband and made myself sit through it and it was excruciating, like sitting in a nightmare burning alive, I believe that was the trigger. Anyway I am safe now, looking forward to a better future with kids one day and a very secure plan to be drug free, 13 months off was a good attempt and I now know I have been as low as it can get. Ironic thing through it all is I am not depressed x
May 6, 2013 at 5:11 pm
No worries, Emma. Many, if not most, have crooked roads during withdrawal. Your path to recovery is the right path because it is yours 🙂
May 4, 2013 at 10:18 am
Npanth how slow do you taper, when stable I am going to go even slower than any recommendations, after all this I still don’t believe I need these drugs for life. Can you tell me your reinstatement story, If I survived 13 months of cold turkey I am thinking the signs are good for a really really slow taper, I emAiled David Healy who is a specialist is withdrawal and he said a slower taper may help, I find that encouraging x
May 6, 2013 at 5:30 pm
I taper unevenly, but very slowly. I reinstated at 10mg/day in January, 2012. I’m at 5mg/day now, in May 2013. That may seem like a very slow taper, but it’s what works for me. Some tapers have gone faster than others. Some tapers have been bigger than others. I’m averaging about 6-8 weeks between tapers for the most part.
After reinstating, I didn’t start to taper until May, 2012. It took a couple months before I felt stable enough to taper my dose.
It wasn’t until May that I had an extended stretch of calmness. That’s the criteria that I use to decide when to taper. In my case, I get waves and windows when I taper. I wait until I’ve gone through a window that lasts through what would be two/three window/wave cycles. When I’m totally sure that there isn’t another wave hiding out there, even a mild one, I drop my dose 10%. Sometimes, I just want a break from tapering, and hold at my dose after I’m sure I’ve consolidated the last taper.
I was in a big hurry when I first tapered. I had the idea that I would be ok if I could just get through it and get to zero. Turns out, it didn’t work that way for me, so I’m in no hurry this time. If it takes another year, that’s ok with me. It took me a long time to get to that point, though. I don’t think that mindset is something that can be conveyed to another person, it just develops over time. I read all the advice about slow tapering, but it didn’t really integrate until I got to that point of withdrawal. I’m still integrating withdrawal wisdom. I suspect I will continue to absorb the hard fought experience of others for a long time to come.
I’m glad you’re improving. I hated the bottom of withdrawal.
May 5, 2013 at 1:30 am
Emma,I’m glad your getting help and finally some relief,when your stable you should follow the Ashton tapering method.
You can get a copy of it here www dot benzo dot org dot uk/manual/ it is widely used by most doctors Benzo and SSRI wise.
you cut your meds by .0625 mgs ever 10 to 14 days,I have started myself and time will tell if she is right.
I have talked to many people using this method and 90% say they have mild to very light withdrawal symptoms.
I know that Xanax is now causing my anxiety and until I get off this crap I’m going to have tolerance withdrawal anxiety.
The other board that I belong to, has some really good benzo wise people and they are like everybody here most supporting and will talk to to you one on one,I have found that this has helped me more than my APRN who insist that i need to stabilize before tapering,I can’t stabilize when the very drug I’m taking is causing the problem.
I am suffering now, but I know that when this drug is gone from my system,I will be a much happier person.
SO for now I’m cutting my doses by .0625 mgs and my symptoms are no worse than before.
Good luck emma ,I will email you in a month to see how you are doing.
Take care,
Your Friend and co healer
Jay
May 6, 2013 at 5:36 pm
That’s the really frustrating thing about withdrawal. For me, it’s tapering paxil too fast that causes symptoms. For other people, it’s the drug itself that causes symptoms. The balance between tapering too fast and too slow off a drug like a benzo sounds hard. Good luck, Jay, I hope the schedule works as well for you as it has for the benzo board folks.
May 7, 2013 at 5:04 pm
thanks napnth, time will tell and for me it’s going to be a slow process ,but I’m fine with that.
May 7, 2013 at 5:30 pm
I believe I tapered WAY too fast. I was on 20mg for 13 years. I tapered down to 10mg for a month and then down to zero. The physical withdrawal, the brain zaps and excruciating headaches was so severe that I went back up to 5mg for a few weeks but it was already too late. So now I’ve been Paxil free for a few months now, and while I feel relieved that the physical withdrawal has mostly gone away, I now am going through such bad emotional withdrawal. I am going to a shrink twice a week because I do believe that Paxil numbed me out for a long time, and having the band aid ripped off has done a doozie to my brain and messed with my emotions. I’ve been very anxious, and severely depressed. But in therapy, I’m learning more about myself and I know that once I get through this, I will grow, more so than I ever have my entire life. But it has been hard work to say the very least, it has taken all my strength and more to get through it, but I am doing it!!!! I know you all can do it too!!!
May 8, 2013 at 4:47 pm
I would say that the mental strength it takes to get through withdrawal is the one lasting silver lining of the whole experience. Sometimes, I feel like a mental ninja 🙂
A guy at work was babbling on today, a bit obliviously. I realized a while ago that this tendency of his is being caused by an SSRI. I recognize it from the way I used to act. I know it doesn’t feel like it now, but someday, it will feel like a bit of an unfair advantage.
May 8, 2013 at 5:54 am
Hi Emma, how are you feeling today? I just got back last night from a week in Lisbon with my mum and sister. I had a good time, the last holiday I went on was back in September 2012 just after I came off the efexor and it was really bad, so it was a definite inprovement for this holiday. I know that re-instating ,may bring back the weight gain etc but this time I am determined to get healthy along with taking the meds.. That way I will be more in control when weaning down off them at a later stage. It definitley is about quality of life, I could have gone on battling without the tablets but I would have had no way of knowing when the withdrawal would end, at least now reinstating the tablets I can be in control of it and have my life back again. I try not to look back at the last 10 months as a waste of my life but more of an achievement of getting through it and being that bit stronger now. I fully believe that we will both be mums very soon in the future and have a family and that everything is going to be ok xxx
May 8, 2013 at 6:55 am
Hi sinead, I have been back on a week and had no anxiety, the deopression is worse but still not debilitating but I have not had one episode like I was having, I am also sleeping 8 hours a night which is a god send, I am obsessed everyday with hating putting something back in my brain and not being the real me but it could be so much worse and I do still feel likemself not a drugged version, within a day I was way better than I had been for months, I see my psych again tomorrow to disscuss a plan but whatever I do am going to do sooooooooooo slow maybe even after babies, who knows but I am hoping to feel a lot better soon, I need the enjoyment of life back before I start again, I am proud of how far I got I belive most people would have given up months before, I have derealisation still but hope that will fade, everyone in my family thinks I’m obsessed with wanting to come off before I have even got stable but I have to believe that one day I will be free, my road has just taken a diffrent turn, I don’t regret my decesion to reinstate, and sinead I am so plieased for u having a nice holiday and feeling ok, let’s keep each other updated, I am so relieved there is someone else on here who is in the same posisition as me x
May 8, 2013 at 5:01 pm
That quick resolution of symptoms points strongly to withdrawal. I had the same kind of feelings when I reinstated. How could I put this stuff back in my brain after I knew what it was doing? It’s a good way to taper, though, and that’s the more important thing.
Reinstating feels like a blanket slowly descending over your mind. You can almost feel yourself slipping away again. I’m not sure why it’s so much more pronounced when reinstating versus the first time. If I had felt that way when I first started taking Paxil, I would have stopped after the first week.
Your mind will slowly start to come back as you get to lower doses. In away, it’s more satisfying now because I know this time it’s forever.
May 8, 2013 at 9:58 pm
I think were all learning that,what we did was not the right way to tapper off the drugs,we are not to blame so I would not beat myself up anymore for what could have been,99% of the DR’s were and still are clueless too!
Emma, I’m glad your getting some relief and when you are ready, you will know this time how to tapper the right way.
Just take your time and don’t rush.
I have made a lot of progress even though I don’t see it that way ,I have a long way to go,I asked my APRN if I wanted back on an SSRI what would she recommend,she said I wouldn’t put you on anything,you need to just keep doing what your doing and ride it out,
So I am slowly making progress one window at time,even if they are weeks apart,a window is a window and that means progress.
Better days are coming.
Jay
May 9, 2013 at 4:37 am
Hi Emma, I am so glad you are feeling a bit better. Its true what npanth says, the second time around we are second guessing the AD’s and the first time we just took them in a hope that they would help and if we look back they did help us at that time. I know we think they will make us into Zombie’s etc but when we look at how we were when we did withdrawal too quick we were zombes then, just existing, not enjoying anything. I know that time is a good healer but when we start wanting time to pass too quickly in order to feel better we are losing out on so much, we need to enjoy life as best we can. I know I don’t want to be on AD’s forever, to me its a means to an end reinstating. I am trying not to dwell on it too much and just concentrate on diet and exercise and taking the tablets are just another task in getting better. Here is a video that I have viewed so many times, that helped me to realise that we are not alone in what we are going through http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65c8wkB3WnI
May 11, 2013 at 1:56 pm
Hi sinead and npanth, 10 days today and no anxiety at all which as npanth says points to withdrarawl, but still the depression is really quite bad but still sleeping really well and eating so I just have to wait out for my mood to get back to normal, I know it will and it has only been 10 days, funny thing is I don’t have that feeling npanth like drugs are taking over my brain, I literally just feel no anxiety but depressed, my biggest concern is that being back on something I am pemanantley damaging my brain but I cling to the theory of neuroplascisty and when the time is right to taper I will recover. I read that people in their 30s and 40s have their whole life still ahead of them so I am going with that theory, waiting to get stable, live some good times again and then taper slow, my normal shrink I saw said I can have that as my aspiration but right now I have to get better, he very kindly said nothing is for life and he would never tell anyone they have to be on something for life because situations change, that was really encouraging, he did say though that I have generalised anxiety which I agree with, but from a combination of the withdrarwl and my genetic make up which made it 10 fold, wish me luck for the mood to improve x
May 11, 2013 at 4:10 pm
I’m glad you aren’t running into the cognition thing while you’re reinstating. I kept thinking about Daniel Keyes story, “Flowers for Algernon” during the first 6 weeks after reinstating. I could see it getting harder to read and remember, but I couldn’t do anything about it.
There’s still time for the depression to get better. It took me a few months before I started feeling like myself again (except for my soggy, slow, brain)
I hope you feel better soon.
May 11, 2013 at 7:14 pm
Hi Emma! It seems like you’re feeling better. That’s great!!! I would take being depressed over severe anxiety any day. I hope your progress continues. 🙂
May 15, 2013 at 3:41 am
Hi Emma, how are you feeling today, its good that the anxiety has gone, the depression will get better too, it takes time for the AD’s to work again but it takes the edge off. You know when its working when you wake in the morning and your first thought is NOT how am I feeling today. You just get up and get on with the day. Keep up the diet and exercise and all the good things you did in withdrawal and that will help too xx
May 15, 2013 at 4:40 am
Hi Sinead and Npath, I am doing ok, the anxiety was back for a few days but not half as bad as before i reinstated, i dont know if i mentioned but as i had been offf 13 months i did not reinstate the same drug effexor as it gave me brain fog anyway so i am on an old fashioned non ssri that i can get pregnant on and is recomeneded by Davivid Healey as most of you know is the expert on withdrarawl and one of the biggest campaigners to show the danger of addiction these drugs, he recomends them as a safer option than ssri but please i donot want to hear any horror stories about anything, this is my path and i will follow it. The anxiety came back a little bit and I believe that is because i have dropped to nearly no sedative so i am basically freestyling through withdrarawl and start up again although mood seems a lot better, I just have to sit it out and wait for the drugs to take effect but what ever is happening i am still better than i was, looking forward to being my old self and doing the coming of so so so so slowly and learning to manage naturally what general anxiety I do suffer from, un fortunatley my anxiety is not related to to anything it is just there so its not like i can find the source of the problem and tackle it, like my work for example. so anyway i am doing ok, I am working from home vevery day while the drugs kick in and I get my confidence back but each day I am doing more, eating more, being own my own at times, driving, and it has only been 13 days so sinead as you say I am waiting for the time that i dont think about it, it is so good to be able to sleep. I have a review with my psych in 5 weeks. the best news is though 2 years ago i started tapering off of seroxat/paxil and it took 6 months to come off and i have not gone back to that, npanth you know how hard seroxat/paxil is and again that also gave me brain fog so i am hoping this new class along with the completely diffrent lifestyle i lead from last time i was on drugs willl make this an easier process, something had to give i couldnt go on. My work are being great and parents are massivelly looking after me, i know it will be a few weeks yet though until i get to where you are sinead but i know it will happen as it always has before. Dont knw if i mentioned but last time i was actully on drugs i weighed 20 stone (280 pounds) and lived on cheese, choclate and pizza, I now weigth 13 stone (182 pouns) and like on vegetable fresh juices lunch and breakfast and healthy veggie dinner and no sugar, alcohol or caffine, so the chances are looking good. sinead how long before you felt like your old self, i can kind of feel it happening without a drugged up veil which is good , funny i was in touch with a girl from blisss johnsons withdrarawl facebook page and she too after a year had to reinstate as her quality of life was nil, just like mine, i think more people do it than we know x
May 15, 2013 at 5:17 pm
I’m glad you’re doing better, Emma. There will be some ups and downs while you get stable again. The biggest thing is that you know that a significant portion of your symptoms were being caused by withdrawal. That in itself is a big step. There are so many symptoms in withdrawal that it’s tempting to blame everything on it. That leads to an ironic distrust of your sense of your internal state, and an unwillingness to ascribe any symptoms to withdrawal. A tricky catch-22. You’ll be better prepared for the nuances of withdrawal when you start your next taper.
May 17, 2013 at 11:52 am
headaches bad and feel like i want to cry, not that i want to cry and can’t, but just like i want to cry but dont really need too,like i can feel the emotion of crying in my chest, its weird just like withdrarawl reinstating i seem to be going through the whole inventory of emotions again, only 2 and a bit weeks in so much more time needed to get stable but each day has been diffrent, still hanging in there and still better than i was 2 and a half weeks ago x
May 20, 2013 at 7:53 pm
I noticed that kind of symptom, too. It’s as if the mechanics of some emotions had become divorced from the corresponding feeling. I’d feel like laughing or crying, but not feel happy or sad. Strange. One of the best moments in recovery was when I randomly clicked on a YouTube link and laughed till I cried at the video. It was a whose line is it anyway? episode. I sat there for hours watching show after show, marveling at my newfound ability to find humor again. Man, I LOVE that show now.
May 10, 2013 at 9:11 am
Hi All, I just needed to vent to the fact that I did not sleep 1 minute last night. Ever since I started this process I’ve had intermittent bouts of insomnia. It is like torture. I actually had a good day yesterday and felt good when I went to bed and then bam! I feel like I can’t get comfortable no mater what I do, and no matter what kind of deep breathing I can do. I took Melatonin, Kava, Valerian root…. Don’t know what else I could have done. I am going to have a miserable day now. 😦 UGH!!!! Torture!!!!!
May 11, 2013 at 4:04 pm
I had long periods of insomnia, too. It was infuriating. I’d go to bed exhausted, but toss and turn all night. Even when I did sleep, I had no perception of rest. It has gotten better over time. I find that I don’t need as much sleep anymore, too. It seems like SSRI have a profound effect on the sleep and dream system. I read a theory once that the drugs disrupt dreams to the point that the brain begins to intrude the dream state into waking life. In withdrawal, that 180 degree switch has to be reversed, leading to broken sleep. I hope it clears up for you soon. Staring at the ceiling at 3am was a rotten feeling.
May 11, 2013 at 7:12 pm
Thanks Npanth. As always I find what you have to say helpful and understanding. I feel like when I’m about to fall asleep I am woken up, and then I become wired and unable to get comfortable. Last night I slept for 3 hours, the night before didn’t sleep at all. I’ll take what I can get. Thanks again for your insight.
May 12, 2013 at 4:19 pm
After a couple months of feeling like I wasn’t sleeping, I slowly realized that I was getting some sleep. I just didn’t realize it. I’d wake up feeling exhausted, but if I really thought about what I’d done all night, I’d realize that I had slept at least part of the night. It just didn’t feel like I’d slept at all. To me, feeling like you got no sleep is equivalent to getting no sleep.
May 10, 2013 at 2:42 pm
npanth, you mentioned in a post about halfway through the blog that you had finally found a doctor who understood the non-drug path of withdrawal. Can you give his name and location? Perhaps he could recommend someone in the Boston area? Thanks.
May 12, 2013 at 7:30 pm
I am sorry, I’m finding it increasingly difficult to navigate this thread. If you have any questions for me, please join my site http://survivingantidepressants.org, start a topic in the Introductions forum, and ask them there. Thank you.
May 13, 2013 at 6:15 pm
I switched to the ios WordPress app on ipad to reply to comments here. It sorts the comments In a friendlier way. I still have to go to my home computer from time to time, but it has helped me a lot.
Ive looked through the blog settings trying to make it more reader friendly, but the only options that help are increasing the comment depth. I think the only way to really sort things out would be to start a new post linked to the comment section of this post. I’ll look into doing that.
May 13, 2013 at 2:53 pm
npanth.
Thank you so much for this insightful explanation of SSRI withdrawal. I am surprised as to how little information there is about the different phases of SSRI withdrawal on the internet. My doctor did say to me that there are no studies unfortunately that have been done for people like myself who have been on an SSRI for 20 years. Basically in my case I have had OCD and clinical depression since I can remember and up until recently I was on 200mg (mostly for 20 years) of Zoloft for both of these coupled with Lamictal 300mg. My cocktail did not work until he added Lamictal which has been a lifesaver. My doctor mentioned to me that there is now a strong belief that OCD sufferers are in the bipolar spectrum as an OCD thought can send a mood plummeting. The relatively new concept is that once the mood has been stabilized the OCD will go away for the most part. In fact he said that he thinks anti depressants are actually aggravating my OCD and depression. We decided to slowly taper off zoloft while adding 300mg of Seroquel (a dosed now used for unipolar depression) which has helped my sister’s depression completely. The added Seroquel at the beginning of the tapering of the Zoloft helped tremendously. I have tapered down 10 percent a month on zoloft and have not had any serious problems (maybe 2 or 3 rough days out of the 2 weeks but not too bad) during the tapering process. I just went off it completely 8 days ago and have now really begun to have some withdrawal symptoms. The depression not the anxiety has come back pretty hard. I keep reading your last few paragraphs thinking that I must hang in there and have faith that this might not be an indication of a full relapse of depression but is instead purely withdrawals and my brain readjusting as you say. My concern is why wasn’t it this bad as I was coming down so slowly on the zoloft and why is it just hitting me now? I don’t want to be fooled into thinking that I need to go back on zoloft and that it is necessary when in actuality it is withdrawals from a med I have been on for 20 years. Do you have any ideas as to why I am having this delayed reaction of withdrawals if you will? Is complete cessation of an SSRI much different than the tapering process even if you go slowly? Many thanks for your thoughts I know this is a long post and I apologize.
May 13, 2013 at 7:00 pm
I had a similar experience. When I was getting closer to zero, there was an anticipation of getting off the drug. I had a short window of feeling exuberant after getting there, followed by a crash. That’s when I had to reinstate. I was tapering off Paxil faster than you did with Zoloft. I think there may be a bit of that in your experience. I would consider that a psychological effect of tapering.
There’s also a physical aspect to the delayed reaction. The brain seems to be able to respond to 10% dose reductions every 4-6 weeks. It’s not the dose itself that matters, though, it’s the percentage change in dose. Say you’re tapering off 10mg/day. Going to 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, 0 is still too fast. As you get closer to zero, the percentage drops get larger.
Instead, the tapering schedule that most people have come to adopt is a diminishing taper. 10, 9, 8.1, 7.3, 6.6, 5.9, 5.3, 4.8, 4.3, 3.9, 3.5, 3.1, 2.8… Etc, until you get to about .5mg/day. After staying at .5 for a while, you jump off to zero.
There are some points In a taper where it is advantageous to hold at a dose for a while. I’m holding at 5mg/day right now, not because I’m experiencing symptoms, but just to take a break from tapering. Pauses in the tapering schedule let the brain fully adjust to the new dose, and make sure that there aren’t any lingering effects of a past taper.
That’s one of the insidious things about tapering off an SSRI. Sometimes, the symptoms can be delayed. You can also experience the culmination of a couple tapers at a later date. You might not be feeling symptoms of your last taper, but symptoms left over from a previous taper.
Your did taper more slowly than most people, so you may be able to ride it out without reinstating. I think your reinstatement threshold should be higher than most people and your reinstatement dose would be lower. I hope your symptoms go away soon. It’s difficult, psychologically and physically to deal with withdrawal symptoms when you’ve already reached zero.
May 22, 2013 at 7:32 pm
npanth,
I am so sorry it has taken me so long to respond and thank you for your words of wisdom. I have been carrying them with me for the last 10 days. It is 2 1/2 weeks since I have been off Zoloft completely having been on it for 20 years. I must admit I am doing much better and the depression that I was feeling last week has subsided for the most part and has now turned into mild anxiety which I can control with exercise and the sun which are both so powerful. I forgot to mention in my last email that what has helped a lot as well over the last 4 months of tapering is a sun lamp “day light” by Uplift Technologies if anyone is interested. Very powerful in fact sometimes to powerful so I have to lay off it for a few days. I don’t use the light lamp any longer but sit outside for an hour a day which makes a difference. I have been reading other posts and I must say I am shocked to hear that it takes half the time of being on an SSRI to get through withdrawals! That would put me at 10 years! My gut says that I think I will get through it sooner as I do feel much better on the whole so hopefully it will keep up. Npanth I thought your delayed withdrawal sentence was extremely interesting and clearly what happened to me. Again I would like to thank you for your response I greatly appreciate it.
Joseph (mogger)
May 23, 2013 at 7:22 pm
Withdrawal isn’t quite as linear as that. How long it takes varies quite a bit from person to person. I think that the idea of half the treatment time for withdrawal can apply up to a certain extent, but it reaches a point of diminishing returns after a while. For a person who has been taking an SSRI for a year, 6 months to recover is not unheard of. For someone like me, at 10 years, a three year recovery is more like it. Three years doesn’t mean three years at the bottom, either. I had a year or so where my symptoms were very bad. The last year has not been bad, though. I can go to work every day, I can go out with friends, I just get some mild symptoms from time to time.
The spectrum of withdrawal covers a lot of ground, from those who quit cold turkey with no symptoms, to those who get protracted withdrawal for short treatment periods. The vast majority fall in between.
I’m glad the depression isn’t bothering you as much. That’s a hard symptom to deal with. It sucks the strength out of you so much, it’s hard to make much progress. Anxiety isn’t much fun, either, but if it remains manageable, you have a good mindset to deal with it.
You may get some cyclical symptoms. Withdrawal seems to happen in waves. One symptom will dissipate for a while, only to be replaced by another. Then they swap for a while. The trajectory is towards recovery, though. Hang in there.
May 15, 2013 at 6:46 pm
Well it’s been awfully quite around here,
New chapter for Jay,I went and saw a Neurologist/ENT about my dizziness and off balance and motor control problems.
What an experience that was,I was checked out by the Dr. for motor control and he could not find anything wrong,he then instructed his partner to administer a balance test,the one where they blow warm and cold air into your ears till you puke or pass out which ever comes first.
I had one done about 20 yrs ago and it was bad,but this one was the worst experience i ever had,I did ok with the follow the red light back and forth then up and down,but when she did my right ear with the warm air the dizziness got so bad i begged her to stop,she said i only have 10 seconds more and she would,to late ,I went into a full blown panic attack and passed out,when I came to the doctors were monitoring me,and i could not stand up, so I stayed on the chair for half an hour ,then I was able to move,they wanted to do the right side ans i told them point blank FU.
The neurologist said he had enough information and that it was not necessary .
I was able to walk into his office and he proceeded to tell me that what happened to me was a good thing,because had I not
reacted to the stimuli and not go dizzy ,that i would definitely have an inner ear balance problem.
His conclusion was that I had a brain problem, duh! and that they usually treat people with this problem with,wait for it,
AD/s and Benzos,since I was already taking X and it was not helping,he said I need to bite the bullet and get off X and let my brain settle down,what a surprise coming from a DR,a Neurologist yet.
So guess what I’m going to be doing for the next 12 months?
JAy
May 16, 2013 at 4:51 pm
Oh man, that sounds like a rotten experience. I had a flashback to a dentist filling my mouth with plaster to fit a retainer. I barfed all over him and was sick for the rest of the day.
That is strange that he settled on weaning off the benzo. Most of the doctors I’ve heard of are huge proponents of drugs… And if one drug doesn’t work, then the answer must be two, or three.
I think the comments are starting to get more sparse on this blog entry because we’re pushing the boundaries of what WordPress can present coherently. I had to switch to the ipad WordPress app to comment here because it has been getting harder to find the new comments. I’m looking into linking these comments to a new blog entry, or some other way to clean them up. I don’t have a good solution yet, but I’m still looking.
May 16, 2013 at 5:02 pm
npanth,I was just as surprised as you are,he said because of the length of time i was on them ,it was obvious that the drugs were the cause,buy he did say it might get worse and i might have to back on, not,time will only tell.
Jay
May 16, 2013 at 5:03 pm
i hate that you can’t edit your post when see a mistake.
May 20, 2013 at 6:59 pm
Well, having the doc adopt a wait and see attitude is… Progress? At least he’s not pushing new drugs on you. I guess that’s something. I hope it’s the start of a good relationship with him. Having a good doctor who doesn’t compound the problem is a big plus.
Yeah, not being able to edit comments can be annoying. In some ways, WordPress’ comment system is rather primitive. I can edit comments, but I don’t like doing that if I can help it. I’ve pretty much limited myself to blanking out email addresses and other identifying things that bots can use to spam people. That was a pretty minor typo. By Internet standards, you are spouting pure literature 🙂
May 16, 2013 at 7:01 pm
npanth, please don’t discontinue this blog. I am new and find the information invaluable. I am here on behalf of my adult son who is suffering brutally and can not find help in the medical community. His history: Zoloft 6 years, became ineffective, other SSRIs added in, including Effexor, over next 3 years. Nothing worked, could not stabilize. Decided to get off, did 3 month wean. Now it’s been 4 months of hell. Severe anxiety, debilitating depression, weight loss, crying all day, and now, cannot go to work. Wife and 2 beautiful young children. Has tried so hard to get through withdrawal: yoga, meditation, walking, but has only gotten worse. Dr put him back on Lemictal – was on before, did not work, not working now. Even though he now knows his taper was not long enoough, he does not want to reinstate because he is so unstable. The recent SSRIs tried over the past 3 years never worked for more than a month or two, so reinstating makes no sense. No one knows what to do. How long can he suffer like this? Is there any way to know if he has bottomed out? Also, he’s afraid his withdrawal may be over, and now he’s left with severe anxiety and depression. This is killing him and me, and pulling apart his family. I know no one has answers, but any thoughts would be appreciated.
May 20, 2013 at 7:48 pm
One of the hardest things to keep in mind during withdrawal is the idea that it is a reversible condition. I struggled with it for a long time. I thought I would never improve, that my present was my future. How can something so profound ever end? It does, though.
It’s very hard to say how long withdrawal lasts. It varies from person to person. Your son is In a little more complicated situation because he was on a couple different drugs. He’s not alone, though. Many, if not most, people wind up on multiple drugs. The standard prescribing technique when a patient reaches tolerance for one drug is to replace it with a new one or add another. SSRI are similar to each other, but do have some unique effects on patients. His symptoms may be the combination of a couple drugs. Sometimes, it can take a long time for withdrawal to catch up. The ironic thing is that the symptoms can go away overnight, or fade away slowly over time.
Usually, the best way to wean off multiple SSRI is to reinstate on the last one you were taking, then slowly wean off that drug. I can totally understand his determination to stay off the drugs. When I reinstated, I could feel Paxil slithering back into my brain like a bad dream. Going cold turkey from this point will make the symptoms more pronounced and, perhaps, longer, but it will work.
It may help him to keep a journal of his symptoms and thoughts. Besides giving him an outlet for his emotions, it can be a useful way to track progress. It’s very hard to tell when one symptom is getting better. Writing it down gives a different perspective that makes it easier to track the waxing and waning of symptoms.
Some other things, in no particular order:
It’s not brain damage. He hasn’t permanently damaged his mind.
Physical symptoms often precede emotional symptoms. The stiff neck today often becomes anxiety in a couple days.
Try to be supportive as much as possible.
The anger is his emotional self uncoupled from his intellect. He can use his imagination to be cruelly angry, but it’s not the way he really feels. He may feel deep remorse afterwards. Try your best not to take what he says in anger personally.
This is very hard advice to portray in text. it seems very scary, and its very hard to describe. Be aware of his emotional state. This is very hard for an observer to do. Try not to crowd him, but be aware. One of the symptoms of withdrawal can be suicidal ideation. It’s not suicidal thoughts like a “normal” suicidal person would get. Instead, it’s a very strong feeling that you want to stop existing. For me, it was a powerful feeling of mortality. It’s not something that you feel compelled to act on. it’s a constant presence, like the anxiety or feeling that you have damaged your brain. Hope seems to abandon you just when you could use a drop or two to get through the day. I don’t mean to scare you, I know how it sounds to describe it. Don’t panic. He needs you to remind him of what he has, and will have, that is worth striving for. Having friends and family that are supportive is the most powerful thing in withdrawal.
I’m sorry for such a long response. I’ll keep posting. I’m a fitful writer, not very prolific, but I’ll try to keep plugging away. I hope your son feels better soon.
May 21, 2013 at 7:06 am
Yeah, I totally get the “is this ever going to end” feeling. For me, it’s what helps to keep me in the anxious/depressed cycle. As I’ve been completely off the SSRI’s for about 9 months, I’m not so much experiencing the physical symptoms of withdrawal. Sometimes I will still feel a few odd brain zaps, but other than that not much. I have noticed, however, that my digestive system is still completely out of whack.
What seems to linger the most, not surprisingly, are the horrible emotional swings and terrible anxiety/depression. I’ve also developed a type of OCD through he withdrawal process and it’s also extremely scary. What’s helped me most is knowing that I’ve had long periods of “windows” where I’m feeling really good. If I’m in a bad patch (like I am now) I really try to remember that.
When I was in the worst of my withdrawal last August, I had to go home to my parent’s place too because my boyfriend wasn’t exactly sure what to do with me. I could tell they were really struggling too. I’m sure it’s devastating to watch your child in so much pain. To be honest, just having them around and knowing I had their support was really helpful. Whenever I got an anxious or scary thought I’d try to think of them and their support. I’m sure you’re doing much more than you know.
Anyway, this was my experience and I really hope that your situation turns itself around, Angie.
On another note: I remember reading somewhere that the length of time that you’ve been on SSRI’s relates to the time it takes to start to feel yourself again. ie/ 2 years on SSRI’s will take about 1 year to start to feel better.
Even though I’m not posting on here often, I’ve still been reading the posts and it’s really been helping me through some rough times. I really appreciate this space and everyone’s input.
Thanks again,
Emily
May 21, 2013 at 6:32 pm
Hi Emily. Can I ask you what SSRI you were on, and how long you were taking it??? I hope what you said about half the time you’ve been taking SSRI is the time it takes to get over because if that’s the case then it will take me 6 years to get to myself again. I was on 20 mg of Paxil for 13 years. I have been Paxil free for a few months now and I am over the physical withdrawal like the headaches and brain zaps, but have had very bad depression and terrible insomnia. I actually have an appointment tomorrow with a doctor who will give me a card for marijuana. I hear great things about it in helping anxiety and insomnia. Also seeing a shrink twice a week. Getting off SSRI’s are very hard!!!
May 22, 2013 at 5:34 pm
I think that one of the most positive things in recovery is to get that first window. Before that, there’s no context to believe that it’s possible to get better. After the first window, it’s easier to tell yourself that you’ll get through this wave, and you might even begin to believe it 🙂
My sense is that the longer the treatment lasts, the longer withdrawal lasts, but I’ve seen some cases that don’t work like that. Biologically, it makes sense that using the drug over long periods allows it to have a greater influence over the upregulation and distribution of receptors on neurons, which in turn take longer to revert back in withdrawal. The spectrum of withdrawal is pretty wide, though. It ranges from zero symptoms/long term use to long term withdrawal/short term use.
May 22, 2013 at 6:10 pm
It’s been a while since I’ve written. I still read every post good and bad. It’s now been 17 months off meds. If its true about half the time on meds for recovery; I only have another 8 1/2 yrs. to go. I’m gonna be really good at this withdrawl stuff by then. 🙂 🙂 🙂
I’ve had good days and really bad days over the last month or so. Unfortunately for me more bad than good. Talking to myself and realizing what is happening is a very big help still. Really I don’t talk out loud about it 🙂 I’d like to though.
My more recent dilemma/symptom is feeling so tired it hurts. I am actually able to steep 6-8 hrs with no problems. I just wake up so unbelievably hard and fogged out. I usually don’t feel we’ll until after lunch. Then it lasts only about 2 hrs max and back to fogville and being so exhausted it hurts. Any ideas or thoughts on what I’m doing wrong. I haven’t felt rejuvenated from a night of good sleep in months. I realize sleep is a bad subject during withdrawl because there usually isn’t much of it. I think I’m past that though.
I am still astounded by the number of people I know that are on SSRI’s or Benzo’s. It is very hard to talk freely to these people about the possible horrors ahead of them. Who am I to say “you shouldn’t take or you should be very careful ” because these meds do work well for some people. Some people openly talk about this with no reservations and some don’t. In my position it can be tricky and possibly detrimental. There is still a negative stigma attached to these meds.
Hang in there everyone!
May 23, 2013 at 7:12 pm
I had a period of time in withdrawal where I was always tired. The fatigue was more of a problem for me while I was on a full dose of the drug, but it can happen in withdrawal, too. SSRI disrupt normal sleep quite dramatically. There are some theories that they change circadian rhythms so much that the brain can’t dream properly during sleep. The mind responds by intruding dream states into waking life. All that has to revert back to normal in withdrawal. While it is establishing a new cycle of waking, sleep, and dreaming, there are going to be periods of time when it doesn’t get it right.
I think what may be happening is that your dream cycle is disrupted. Even though you’re getting sleep, it’s not as restorative as it should be. It’s not something that sleeping aids or stimulants can fix in the long term. Those would increase you unproductive sleep time and extend you sleepy wake time, respectively. The best solution is probably to wait it out.
As my sleep patterns returned to normal, I oscillated between very little sleep, and too much sleep, between dreamless nights and endless nightmares. It felt like a rubber band snapping back to its original size. Eventually, I started sleeping more normally, and it has continued to improve.
One thing that may help is to meditate while you’re lying in bed. Clear your mind and think about nothing. It’s harder than it sounds. I picture my mind as a chasm. Every thought, be it about my day, tomorrow, or some memory, goes in the chasm. I concentrate on… Nothing, as if it is something. It’s hard to describe, others have explained it better than I just did. Try googling meditation and see if it’s something that might help you.
May 21, 2013 at 8:21 am
npanth,
Thank you for your thoughtful and helpful response concerning my son. The part about him not having brain damage is most reassuring. Knowing that he will get through this means so much. He does keep a journal. What he needs most now is some way to navigate the intense anxiety/panic attacks. We all struggle to talk him through, but it doesn’t work. Do you know if using Benzos intermittently in intense acute situations is ok? They do help, but he doesn’t want them to lose effectiveness like everything else eventually did, then he will have nothing.
Please don’t think you write too much – just the opposite. I hunger for your insight, so the more you write, the better. You cannot possibly know how much good you are doing. Thank you again.
May 22, 2013 at 5:56 pm
Thanks, Angie. I’m reticent to advice benzo use to get through the anxiety. Benzos are also very difficult to wean of of. That being said, though, they can be helpful in managing the worst symptoms. At some points in withdrawal, the future struggle to wean off the benzo can and should take a backseat to immediate relief.
The anger and anxiety isn’t being driven by his personality or even his thoughts. The filter we use to manage our minds is disabled in withdrawal. Imagine that you’ve just been cut off in traffic. In normal thought, we only see the possible responses that we’re used to seeing. The whole range of emotion is there, though. If you pay very close attention, you may see the flicker of anger, or the fragment of rage that being cut off elicits in your mind. It’s barely perceivable, though, because our minds are so finely tuned to filter out the thoughts that don’t match our personalities. In withdrawal, that filter goes away. Instead of choosing a response based on our experience, the most powerful emotion dominates thought. That’s why he gets so angry at seemingly inexplicable things and has crippling anxiety over innocuous things.
The drug has changed his brain physically, but that is very far from saying it’s damaged. Instead, the brain has changed itself in response to the drug’s effects. It has come to rely on the emotional numbing that the drug provides. It’s almost as if the brain has to rediscover how to manage itself, one madness at a time. You’ll know you’re turning the corner when he laughs till he cries at something you can’t see. It’s not over, there will still be more anxiety and anger. It is a milestone though.
The first time I laughed till I ached, I realized that it had been more than a year since I had let out more than a grunt at something funny. I’m much more aware of my emotional state now and more intuitive when it comes to interactions with other people. I can’t say withdrawal was worth it, but I can say that I understand my own mind much better having gone through withdrawal.
May 22, 2013 at 7:55 pm
Haven’t posted for awhile. That’s what happened to me. I stood firm for about a year until I caught an bad infection that turned my already tough withdrawal into a pure hell. I got hospitalized and put on drugs: Remeron, Buspar, klonopin and risperdal. The only one I adamantly protested to start on was any type of SSRI/SNRI – got Remeron instead. By now I’ve taken it for almost 2 ms – no effect so far. What is the most worrisome for me is Klonopine – potent benzo. I was hoping that I’d be on it for a short time while remeron and buspar is gaining ground but once they kicked in I would gradually be dropping klonopine. That didn’t happen. My withdrawal is so powerful that it overcomes all these meds together, it took the edge off a bit though. Now I am struggling with whether or not start tapering Klonopin since my condition has not stabilized. I still have anxiety attacks and depression attacks (I call them “attacks” b/c they come and go). Overall I am moderately depressed and anxiety episodes are pretty frequent. In addition I feel all the side effects of those drugs and possibly their interactions. Doctors would only suggest to increase the dose since they continue to deny withdrawal behind all the turmoil going on – they insist it’s depression relapse and panic attacks. I feel very uneasy to be on benzo for such a prolonged period of time and have a perspective to add klonopin withdrawal in addition to my existing and unrelenting withdrawal. On the other hand, what choice do I have now other than continue taking benzo until anxiety subsides and I feel more stabilized? Npanth, what would you do? Thank you.
May 23, 2013 at 7:47 pm
There are times in withdrawal when you just have to tackle the problem in front of you, and leave future problems for later. I was very much against reinstating Paxil, but I think I did the right thing. It prolonged the time I’m taking the drug, but I’ve had a better quality of life while tapering, which is very important. Quality of life is just as important as getting off the drug. Once I was more stable, tapering got a lot easier. It’s frustratingly slow, sometimes, but I don’t have bad symptoms.
I think it’s nearly impossible to separate innate problems from withdrawal problems until you’re stable. They feel the same, and have the same outward appearance. I still have some social anxiety issues, but I certainly don’t have the severe depression or general anxiety that my doctor diagnosed while I was in withdrawal. Some of what you’re feeling may be related to an innate problem, but doctors will almost certainly treat the withdrawal symptoms they see, not the ones you’ll have in a few months. By then, they’ll have prescribed a couple drugs that may be over treating your future symptoms.
Benzos are notoriously hard to wean off of, but you will have a lot more withdrawal experience by the time you tackle that. I wouldn’t be able to have a positive attitude towards my own taper without the hard times I had last year. I’m not saying I appreciate the bad parts of withdrawal, but I do have a better perspective. I think you will be ready when it comes time to tackle the benzo. Try to keep your usage as low as you can bear in the mean time. The less you have to take now, the easier it will be to taper off of in the future.
I feel bad that you’re stuck with two bad choices. I hope you get stable soon, you deserve it.
May 23, 2013 at 9:50 pm
Npanth, thank you so much for your thoughtful prospective as usual. Unfortunately, my problem is not only staying on benzos for much longer than I anticipated. I take 3 more drugs: remeron, buspar and risperdal (was put on them in the hospital when an anxiety was so intense that I couldn’t describe it other than a torture and there was no sleep at all for many nights). They give me a lot of serious side effects. And I can’t discern which on is working, which – may be not at all. They probably have also undesirable interaction effects, too. I am now so scared to apply a trial and error method to figure out that some of them might not do anything good for me. The doctor said: I have to take them all for at least 6 ms to stabilize, not even dare to think about the dosage decrease. I have no idea how to handle this problem with a minimum risk and harm. May be try to taper at least one of them very slowly and cautiously? Which one then? I don’t think I’ll get stabilized any time soon b/c even on all those drugs I get very intense anxiety and depression periods. May be I made a mistake to decline reinstatement of the SNRI I had been in the first place? Looks like remeron is not working as an AD for me, I’ve been taking it for 7 weeks already? What do you think? I’d really appreciate your insight. Thank you.
May 27, 2013 at 8:47 am
I think the tapering order would probably be Risperidone first, then buspirone or Mirtazapine. Risperdal is a very powerful drug. It has a lot of side effects. Don’t rush into tapering, though. It can be scary to think about taking a lot of drugs, and the different ways they interact with each other. Still, you should go very slowly. Taper off of one drug at a time. Tapering off the first drug seems to take forever. It gets easier as you go, though. Don’t think of it as getting off several drugs. Try your best to take them one at a time. Don’t hesitate to take tapering holidays or stay at a dose for a while if your symptoms increase. It’s very important to maintain as much quality of life as you can while tapering.
Try not to worry about changing drugs. A lot of these drugs cause tolerance and side effects. Reinstating on the SNRI might not have worked, either. You could also be experiencing some delayed issues from the SNRI. Hang at your current doses Forma while and see if things settle down. It’s hard to have that kind of patience. The drugs create a very relativistic view. It feels like the way you feel today is the way you’ll feel forever. It can get better, though. Hang in there.
May 27, 2013 at 8:01 pm
Thank you so much, Npanth. So, you think that Risperdal should go first and Klonopin – last? Withdrawal’s made me so fearful and you all know well why it’s so. It’s like an equation with many variables – not possible to solve and get the correct answers. I am still not stabilized, still getting anxiety, most of the days experience a deep-deep depression and some very weird attacks that I can’t describe and have no idea what is the nature of them – either my “old” withdrawal, or a “new” one from the “new” drugs, or their side effects or… I am totally lost here b/c after I start tapering (even slowly and gradually) and that attack happens (or worsening of the old symptoms), I really don’t know which to ascribe it to since sometimes it wouldn’t show for a few days and then a full-blown attack just throws me into a panic. The more complicating factors are that those psychotropic medications could produce the opposite side effects, i.e. they target depression and at the same time could worsen it, or anxiolytic may cause anxiety or insomnia. All that is so confusing. I understand that I need to go one drug at a time but should I wait until I stabilize on all of them (it may never happen b/c they are not capable of treating withdrawal symptoms) and put up with the side effects (rather serious) or start getting rid of them (one by one) right away and see how it will go? The problem is that psychiatrists are not your allies, all they call for is to increase the dose if your symptoms continue to persist. Thank you.
May 30, 2013 at 9:16 pm
It’s very hard to tell the difference between existing symptoms and those caused by the drugs. It’s the central problem while tapering. Is this symptom happening because I lowered my dose? Because I increased my dose? Because I stayed at a dose? Just because?
Even though I was only coming off one drug, Paxil, I still had the same identification problems. Try to take a realistic inventory of your existing condition and the symptoms it causes. It’s not easy, especially when the drug has its thumb on the scale. I found that writing down my symptoms, even the mild ones, helped come up with an idea of which ones I could ascribe to the drug. Some symptoms won’t make themselves clear until you’re well into recovery, but it should still help with some symptoms.
I think the order should be dictated by which drug has the most potential to cause side effects. That pushes Risperdal up the list. After that, it gets harder to choose. You could put off the decision of the second drug to taper off of until later. Things can change between now and then.
May 27, 2013 at 8:17 pm
Do you think, Npanth, that “withdrawal depression” could be helped with, let’s say, remeron, and “withdrawal anxiety” – with buspar?
May 30, 2013 at 9:27 pm
I’m not sure how much help they would be. I’m not dismissing them, I just don’t have enough experience with their effects and the way they interact with the drugs you’re on right now. It’s hard to predict how they would interact with each other.
I understand the need to get some relief, it’s not just a matter of roughing it or just getting over it. Most sites will be very polarized, for and against any kind of psych drug, so I’m not even sure where to go to get a balanced answer about taking a drug to alleviate withdrawal symptoms. I’ll try to find a resource for it.
May 28, 2013 at 12:28 pm
npanth,
I have posted here a few times about my son’s ongoing brutal experience withdrawing from SSRIs. Five days ago he reached his limit of suffering, endless panic, all day crying, inability to function. He needed immediate relief or hospitalization was imminent. So now, he is back on everything, SSRI (Prozac), Lemictal, an anti-psychotic at night, and benzos as needed. I feel neither good nor bad, I am numb. I have spoken with him only once, and he is at the opposite of panic, he is muted and expressionless. While we have to reconcile this move with our ultimate goal of being off drugs, for now, the only goal has to be stabilization. My question to you and others here is this: can a drug protocol that did not stabilize him before over 3 years of trying every combination work now? Any hope you can offer is, as always, most appreciated.
May 30, 2013 at 10:02 pm
I understand the sentiment that it’s draining to see a person you love in withdrawal, and a disappointing relief to see them back on the drug. While they are suffering, you have to try to support an almost unsupportable condition. Then something fundamental slips away when they get back on the drug.
It’s important to get stable again. There are too many unpredictable outcomes when withdrawal is in an uncontrollable state. It looks like they threw the pharmacy at him to get an overwhelming effect. He’s probably over prescribed at the moment. He can still get some fluctuation in his symptoms at a high dose of multiple drugs. Try to take the benzos as sparingly as you can, then develop a plan to work on the other drugs. The benzos will be difficult to taper off of if he relies on them a lot.
He should taper off the anticonvulsant and antipsychotic before the SSRI. Try to make an inventory of his symptoms and match them up with the effects info on Lamictal and the anti psychotic. It’s not an exact thing, but you should be able to recognize some of the effects and side effects and match them up with what your son is experiencing.
It can be hard to elicit frank discussions of symptoms. I know I didn’t share much when I was having trouble with Paxil. I didn’t even recognize some of the effects as being caused by the drug. Somehow, I didn’t realize that sleeping 12-14 hours a day and falling asleep during the day wasn’t normal. It may take some time to figure out what’s causing different symptoms. After you’ve prioritized which effects are most intrusive (fatigue, depersonalization, etc) and made some rough associations with the drug that’s causing it, you can choose which drug to taper off first.
After choosing a drug, taper very slowly. The biggest priority is to avoid bad symptoms as much as possible. That may mean shaving pills, or dropping by fractions of a mg each time. It may also mean staying at a dose for a while. It’s a slow, sometimes frustrating, process, but the most important thing is to maintain as much quality of life as possible while doing it, not getting off the drug fast. I’ve found that I’ve became very sensitive to the symptoms as my dose has gotten lower. Tiny symptoms, that wouldn’t even register before, are very apparent to me, now. I’m going very slowly at this point, but my symptoms have diminished quite a bit. I worked 11 hours today and had some very frustrating problems to solve, but I made it through. Compared to where I was a year ago, that’s a huge accomplishment. I couldn’t even go to the market for more than a half hour two years ago. Your son will get there, too. Just take it one little step at a time, and they will become huge leaps before you know it 🙂
May 28, 2013 at 1:44 pm
Hi All. Well, after a lot of soul searching and deliberations I have decided to reinstate. I have an appointment with the psychiatrist on Friday and it can’t come soon enough. The dreadful insomnia that has left me for the most part sleepless for weeks, and these terrible waves of depression when I could just cry endlessly, has put me over the edge. I just want to be myself again. I was on Paxil, but now considering Zoloft as it was recommended to me once before. I feel that at this point, that I’ve tried everything: vigorous working out(6 days a week), herbal supplements(valerian root, kava, melatonin), meditation, Omega 3, SAM-e. I have been brought to my knees. I will keep you all posted. I hope all of you are doing well and that your suffering is minimal.
May 30, 2013 at 10:11 pm
I hope it helps Lainey. Reinstating is a tough decision. It’s usually best to reinstate on the last drug you were taking. Switching to another drug like Zoloft may increase the reinstatement period a bit. The larger symptoms will still likely go away quickly, but it may introduce some variability (waves and windows) before you feel stable enough to start tapering again. A switch could work if you were reaching tolerance on Paxil. Zoloft is still in the same class as Paxil, but it does have some different effects from Paxil. If Paxil was causing more problems than symptom relief, then Zoloft may be easier to taper off of in the long run. It has a longer half life than Paxil, which should help in some ways. It has a bit more of an intraday cushion than Paxil. It’s still the same process of weaning, though. Make sure you’re stable before tapering and go slow when you do. You’ll make it! I hope you feel better soon.
June 1, 2013 at 1:33 pm
Hi, first time here,
I was on Paxil for 18 years… tapered off over a year. It was hell, but I made it through. … till now.
My depression was back in full force. Crying all the time, no interest in anything. I finally made the decision to restart anti depressants and since I had “tolerated” Paxil fairly well all those years, the Dr. decided to start me back on 20 mgs.
The first day I had wicked stomach upset, diarrhea. I slept for 14 hours and woke up in a full blown panic attack. I have not had a panic attack in over a year! I took the next dose in the AM and driving to work, almost had to pull over. I had tunnel vision and feelings of impending doom. It sort of passed and I made it through work. When I got home that evening, I wasn’t feeling great so I layed down. I woke up 5 hours later, again in full panic mode and a really bad headache, couldn’t eat, nauseous, and sort of manic. (I have NEVER been manic)
I called in sick to work and slept some more. Woke up this morning (I haven’t taken any more) Thinking about where the gun was in the house. While my depression has been bad and very bad at times, I have never had this serious thought of a means to suicide. I asked my partner to please unload the gun. The look on his face nearly killed me. He has called me from work all day, checking up on me. I just keep making myself go out in the sun, pet the dog, talk to friends, anything to keep my mind somewhere else. It is the weekend so there is no Dr. to talk to and I know the ER will either throw me in the psych ward or send me home with a hefty bill (no insurance).
Why did this happen? I NEVER had anything like this during all those years of being on Paxil. It STOPPED my panic, didn’t cause it.
Have I damaged my brain by taking those 2 doses? Will I have withdrawal after just 2 days of being back on it?
I hope someone sees this and can offer some hope. I will be waiting on the Dr.s doorstep on Monday morning.
Alisa
June 1, 2013 at 5:55 pm
Hi Alisa, First of all I’m so sorry that you’re going through this. I know it could be feel like the worst thing ever… I think Npanth can offer better advice but what I can see is that your doctor didn’t wean you back on to Paxil. You started with 20mgs right away, which is never good and probably a shock to your body. I am reinstating myself right now. I was on Paxil for 13 years, and was off for four months. My depression was so bad too that I thought I better get back on the meds. My doctor prescribed to me Zoloft this go around, mainly due to the fact that I want to get pregnant eventually and it is the only SSRI that is baby safe…. But, my doctor put me on 25mgs this week, the next week I’ll go up to 50, then the week after that I go up to 75 where I will stay at. Paxil has a very short half life which means it goes into your system faster, then some of the others, I am sure your system is in shock. I am surprised your dr. didn’t start you out at 5mg for a week, then up to 10, and then 20. That is the only thing I can think of what might be causing you such panic.
I hope you feel better soon. SO very sorry.
June 1, 2013 at 6:43 pm
Lainey, thank you for your kind words. They mean a lot. I am thinking you are probably right. Now I am so freaked out, that I am afraid of taking it at all. Guess I will go back to the Dr. on Monday and have a chat about what I should do next.
Again, thank you for your response.
Alisa
June 2, 2013 at 9:12 pm
Alisa, please reach out to anyone you can to help you through the feelings. Suicidal ideation is very common as a symptom of withdrawal and startup. Most doctors don’t council their patients about the startup effects of SSRI. They usually last about 4-6 weeks, but it varies from person to person.
For some reason, the urge to self harm becomes very strong for a lot of people in withdrawal and startup. It seems like a very complicated symptom, too complex to even be categorized as “symptom”. A lot of people go through it, though. You haven’t damaged yourself by taking those two doses. It may take a little while to get through it, but you can do it. Keep telling yourself that the drug is causing those feelings, not damage, or some failing on your part. It feels “rational” and logical when you think it through. It’s not until you get through it and look back that it seems strange and unnatural.
Even if you have trouble convincing yourself at this moment, hold off on acting on any of those feelings until you can view them properly. Our natural state is one of self preservation, not this mire of emotions that the drug is causing.
Lainey is right, I think. Jumping right back onto Paxil may have been a shock to your system. An analogy would be getting really drunk after being a teetotaler for a long time. Your body/mind isn’t used to the drug like it was before, so it freaks out a bit. You shouldn’t have more withdrawal symptoms from your short reinstatement after a short time. Again, that can vary from person to person. Short term use usually means short term withdrawal, though.
That will still leave the baseline as the symptoms that prompted you to reinstate in the first place. Withdrawal is a very strange thing. When I was tapering off Paxil before I reinstated, I was cruising for a while. Then it all caught up with me at once. It turns out that I was banking up symptoms and not feeling them right away. You could try a slower reinstatement after you’ve had a chance to get stable again, or try to stick it out. Which one works better will depend on how fast you tapered off of Paxil, and how long this bad reaction lasts.
The doctor will probably recommend another SSRI. That can be problematic for some people. Sometimes, it alleviates symptoms, other times, it just adds new startup symptoms to your existing withdrawal.
I hope you feel better soon. I hated the harmful thoughts, they were difficult to deal with.
June 3, 2013 at 6:22 pm
I must say I am begining to feel like a lone soldier again. I have gone thru alot of hellish withdrawals in the last year plus. I have some how managed to keep my life together; kinda. This is a staggering task at times as you all no very well. I have been in a wave for what seems like years recently. Time seems to go very slow during a wave. I also reluctantly realize time will be the only thing that might heal me.
It appears as though most everyone on here has decided to go back on meds. Which is 100% ok! You gotta do what you gotta do! I am still med free and my intentions are to stay that way. I by no means write that to slight or demean anyone in any way; I swear to you.
I guess what i am asking for is a new source or resources for inspiration to stay drug free. Could you guys send me links to inspirational stories or reading that might take the edge off. Any thing might help!! Thanks
June 3, 2013 at 7:00 pm
I’m with you, Dano. I’m heading off Paxil and don’t intend to go back. It’s going slowly, but it’s one way. The topic of success stories comes up all the time. It seems like one of the ironies of recovery is that folks don’t come back to tell their stories. I don’t blame them. It’s hard to relive withdrawal sometimes. I’ve done it myself. I used to be a frequent participant at www. Paxilprogress.org and http://www.survivingantidepressants.org but I don’t post as much as I used to. I keep meaning to, but somehow don’t get around to it like I used to. Both sites usually have a success story thread running.
June 3, 2013 at 8:59 pm
I am with you on this Dano! I am finding it very discouraging hearing that everyone is going back onto medications. It makes you reconsider withdrawal – however I am staying strong and will not ever go onto any form of SSRI or other form of psych medication. I am 13 months into withdrawal of Lexapro and posted a month back saying that I felt 90% recovered when bam…I was hit by yet another wave. A lot of symptoms that I had at Christmas time at my (9-10 month mark have returned). At this point I feel so vulnerable and feel that I am chasing a dream that may never come true. Sometimes I wonder if I really am still in withdrawal or whether this is “actually” me. But Im gonna keep going, I have nothing to lose, things are better than they were last year and I keep telling myself nothing lasts forever!
As for inspiration, I have found recovery-road.org helpful, they have some great success stories and I recently purchased Bliss Johns book about withdrawal and recovery from antidepressants and benzos. It was good, more motivational and does make you feel good about the process – however I believe she failed to go into any depth about the psychological side effects these drugs cause and how severe they can be. A good read though and it also has several success stories at the back.
Whats your story Dano? How long you been med free??
June 6, 2013 at 6:39 pm
Don’t despair about people reinstating. Everyone has a very individual road to getting off of an SSRI. Some people need to reinstate, others get through without taking them again. You’ll get off in your own way, and that will be the way that works for you 🙂
June 6, 2013 at 8:05 pm
Mel
I have read that book at least three times fully and have skimmed through it many many times. It’s a very good book.
I have been off Meds since the second week of December 2011. I also reinstated for about a month and it failed me miserably. I became very sick from it. So when I say I don’t mean to put people down for reinstatement; I was there for a short period of time. I say I have been free from meds for 18 months now but I reinstated shortly.
I was on Benzo’s and SSRI’s for about 18 plus years. I was essentially taken off meds cold turnkey. Under doc’s direction I tapered off meds over a 2 week time period. I suffered acute withdrawals for months running the gamete of withdrawal symptoms. Not knowing what was going on was horrifying to me. Only threw Internet search and reading I slowly gained knowledge of what was happening to me. All the doctors I have interfaced with are withdrawal ignorant. I’m certain now that this ignorance has caused countless people to end their lives because of lack of knowledge and ignorant doctors in this field.
Living life med free is like re-learning to walk and talk again! It truly is a new world of emotions. All of these new to me emotions mixed with withdrawal symptoms has been at times unbearable.
I don’t want to sound like I have had no relief for a year and a half because I have brief periods of what I call “clarity”. This is when I’m not depersonalized along with a pulsing head or massive head ache etc, etc, etc. I still struggle pretty much 24/7 with multiple symptoms but they do decrease at times. I have maintained my job and marriage (21years) some how thru all this. I will eventually make it thru this but I have a whole life of living on meds to re-learn off of them. I will be 46 this summer. I realize now that a person can’t just change overnight as much as I wish I could.
Take it slow and easy everyone.
June 3, 2013 at 11:52 pm
Dano, I go through all of those feelings on a daily basis, you’re not alone. I’ve been SSRI free (Celexa) since August of 2012 and still get waves, extreme anxiety, depression (which was never an issue before SSRI’s), panic attacks, dizziness, paranoia, intrusive thoughts, and even the odd brain zap. I was on SSRI’s for about 6 years. I can also relate to your experience Mel, just when I think I’m on the right track I’m hit with horrible anxious thoughts and I spiral into a set back.
When I was in the initial throws of withdrawal back in August of 2012 I was encouraged by doctor to start another SSRI (Zoloft) and did try it out. I started having really bad physical side effects like a sudden change in vision and a disoriented zombie like feeling. It was at that point that I told myself they weren’t for me anymore and I knew I couldn’t put my body through it again. I just had to move forward and hope like crazy I was going to get through it. While most days I’m still not sure I’ll get through it and wonder if THIS is it for me, I just have to keep holding out and believe I’m going to get better.
Much like you I also completely respect the decision to go back on your meds to stabilize yourself and then try a new game plan to get off these drugs. At the end of the day none of us want to be on these drugs (or we wouldn’t be on this forum) and whatever path you take is the right one for you.
hmmmm….not sure how inspiring this had been…oops! LOL. I guess what I’m trying to say is that we’ve made it this far we can ride it out! But more practically I’ve also found that the forums at surviving antidepressants really helpful: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/forum/28-recovery-success-stories/.
I know we’ll get there! Keep on hanging in!
Emily
June 4, 2013 at 4:26 am
HI guys, Mel I am so sorry to hear you haave taken a step back iam positive as you were so good for a while you will return to that. Dano Jay and npanth I often think about you all. Dano I can understand how you feel alone, I think more people reinstate than we think. Who knows if we reinstate because we will possibly do something awful if we dont or if the suffering is too bad, for me I would have not survived anymore withdrarawl, my body had given up on me, I am 5 weeks back on a TCA, and I have only started taking the theraputic dose today so need to wait out another 4 weeks so it is a long process getting stable when we reinstate. I had no choice, you staying strong is amazing and you will do it. I was cold turkeyed in 4 weeks, that was my problem, I still research withdrarawl as I am adamant when the time is right just like npanth I will come off soooooooooo slowly. David Healy probabley the most famous withdrarawl psychtrist has written that the drug i am on is a good one to switch too to come off ssris as it has really low serotonin effect. I am still waitning for a breakthrough anxiety is much less and panic gone and i sleep but the depression is worse than ever, I have been assured that will pass when i get on the right dose. For every withdrarawl horror story I read I also read a story of how someone has totally returned to themselves on drugs. I have no intention of being on the drugs for life, but to do that I needed to continue to live I admire both the same those who have to take a step back to move forward and those who just keep moving forward!! we are all whatever we do drugs or no drugs are in this together. At least now I know there is an end to my suffering in sight and i can start planning a future again around a very slow taper I know I will feel better because things have improved already, I know npanth it took you weeks to stabalise before you felt ok again. I will one day come on here and say I am off. Below is the link to the best recovery story I have and i would read it daily to get through, so here is the link below, good luck everyone
June 4, 2013 at 1:59 pm
Hi again,
After the terrible Paxil incident,
I broke down and went to a “real” MD that specializes in this sort of thing. After listening to me sob uncontrollably for an hour, he put me on a very low dose of Celexa.
I am trying so hard to not beat myself up for being weak, pathetic …..blah blah. Bottom line is this.. I had NO quality of life. Everyone in my life that loves me was worried sick/wanting to chew their leg off to get away from me. I gave it a valiant effort. I weaned myself of Paxil using The Road Back tapering schedule. It took me over a year. I was off completely for 3 years and then menopause hit, the hormones went crazy and so did my anxiety and depression. I tried every nutritional supplement, SAM-E, exercise, hot yoga, acupuncture ,prayer, begging, meditation, therapy, crying till I puked…have ruined relationships, worn out my friends… you get the picture.
I guess after awhile , it returns to the quality of your day to day life. I am 52. I want “life” in my remaining years. Not just hanging on to my sanity with my fingernail tips. I HATE that this seems to be the only way to achieve that, I really do. But I have given it my all. That I am comfortable with, I have done all that was in my power to do this on my own without the crappy drugs.
So here we goooooo.. Wish me luck. I am glad I found this page.
XXX
Alisa
June 6, 2013 at 6:52 pm
Not to worry, Alisa. It’s not a matter of will power or strength of character. It’s a drug problem. Reinstating is part of a lot of roads o recovery. You’ll get there. Quality of life is very important if withdrawal. Withdrawal has a tendency to feed on itself, positive or negative. Anything you can do to encourage the positive will help you recover faster, even If that’s slow tapering.
June 4, 2013 at 3:19 pm
Emma, could you decode what TCA stands for, what kind of drug is it?
June 6, 2013 at 6:43 pm
Thanks, Emma. You are so right. We will all achieve a livable solution to SSRI withdrawal. It may not be quick or necessarily smooth, but we will get there. That determination will see us through as much as community support. I think it takes both intrinsic and extrinsic support to get off these drugs.
June 5, 2013 at 4:26 am
TCA is trycycilc class of drug, been around sine 1960 but they have more side efffect that is why they are used less here http://www.paxilprogress.org/forums/showthread.php?t=45298
June 5, 2013 at 6:38 pm
Emma, is it the only drug you’ve started and you feel some effect on anxiety right away? I am taking 4 of them now and still have bouts of anxiety and deep-deep depression. My psychiatrist wants to raise the dose of remeron and added a small dose of doxepin for sleep but it doesn’t seem to work.
June 8, 2013 at 8:17 am
Hi everybody, it’s been awhile..
Here’s an update that people who are thinking about reinstating should think about.
I tried reinstating last Sept. with disastrous results,and tapered off to quickly causing serious side effects along with W/d.
2 weeks ago I ask my psych to try and find a SSRI I could take because I was really going through some really bad w/ds and was not getting any sleep,after going through my chart,there was no ssri that I could take, so she decided that she would put me on a mood stabilizer,I took the drug for 6 days and had a bad reaction that caused me to lose my balance and fall flat on my face,I had an MRI done and that came back negative,so I was relieved to know that it was a reaction to the new drug.you can’t take one drug to fix another it’s just another brick in the wall of recovery,I should have known better.
For the last 2 weeks I have been reading a book called THE BENZO BOOK,after reading this book,I felt like I was reading about my own struggles with Xanax and SSRI’s ,The book was written by Jack Hobson-Dupont, its his account and recovery from many years of taking A/d’ and Xanax.What he learn has changed my life, as I have learned that for the last 15 years,i have been in tolerance withdrawal from the Xanax,and I have been feeding the W/D symptoms with every pill I took and that all the Psychs I’ve been to, misdiagnosed what was wrong with me.
I brought the book to my present psych and after reading it ,she is well lets say a little more educated in the effects that Benzo’s/SSRI’s play in the the symptoms we are going through.
I will be starting to taper off the X in a week, because I was on xr and you can’t cut xr period.
I know now that this has been my problem all along and reading that book was the best thing i ever did.
I highly recommend it,its free to down load in PDF form ,I don’t want to post the link because of the problems with bots and
trolls that might play on people sympathy.
The tapper is going to take a long time,but I feel better already knowing that I will be benzo free and that i am not crazy.
People who tapper very slowly have had the best results with very few side effects and if you do get a period of bad w/ds
you can hold till it’s time to do the next cut.
I have been on another site called Benzo buddies, if you are taking any Benzo’s and want off this is the site that will I found to be the most Benzo wise and supportive group of people I have had the pleasure to chat with,not that this place is any different,npanth has and is very knowledgeable and has given some very good advice and comfort for a lot of us.
Benzo Buddies is geared more for people like me who are and have been taking Benzos for long periods of time.
I will check in from time to time to let you know how I’m doing,I know that i am on the Road to recovery and attitude is a
key factor, keeping positive thoughts are a must and believing that everything you feel is not real it’s your brain making you
believe its real.
Best of Health to everyone,
Jay
June 9, 2013 at 8:15 pm
Hey jay, thank you for the update. I’ve thought of you quite a bit recently. I’m glad you’re approaching benzo tapering in a measured way. One of the pitfalls of tapering is the feeling that getting to zero is a goal unto itself. Going slow preserves as much quality of life as possible, which just as important. I hope you feel better soon, you deserve a break.
June 10, 2013 at 10:39 pm
I was placed on xanax and zoloft 2 years ago while in Physician Assistant school. I had a panic attack while in class (of course I thought I was dying at the time) and ran to the nearest open clinic where I met a very sweet woman with good intentions who put me on the drugs. Long story short, I got hooked on the xanax and had to continuously take more and more (lost my girlfriend in the process and almost dropped out of school). Finally I was switched to Klonopin and gradually weaned off that completely about 7 months ago. The withdrawal I experienced from Klonopin was admittedly much worse than what I am going through now and lasted about 3 months. Those symptoms completely subsided and recently I developed the courage to quit zoloft as well. I first went from 100 mg daily to 50 mg and had about a week of very foggy uncomfortable feelings then felt ok. One week ago I stopped completely and have now experienced significant symptoms that up until today were manageable but now I fear they are becoming very intense. Still the Klonopin withdrawal was worse so far but if this continues to amplify it could be comparable. I am currently feeling extremely dizzy, getting the “brain zaps” often, and becoming extremely angry with everything, including my new girlfriend (been with her 8 months). I really don’t want to lose her too but I fear if I continue to be so mean this could be a possibility. I hate feeling like this, I’m normally a very easy going happy, loving guy. I’m also getting those old anxious feelings back, dizziness, fogginess, headaches, and feelings of fear. I know what everyone here is going through and I find that one of the only things that help is relating to others. If you havn’t ever dealt with this bullshit you can never know how awful it is. Hoping that this will not be too long as I just got hired on at a emergency room and will be starting in october. I really need my wits about me then. Thanks npanth for everything you’ve done, I’m sure you’ve been much more helpful to these people than most doctors.
June 12, 2013 at 7:20 pm
Thanks, kpfist. The idea that I may be a better resource than a doctor in the case of withdrawal is very troubling to me. I don’t want to supplant an authority figure, or even claim some knowledge that doctors have. I started writing about withdrawal because the advice I got from my doctor turned out to be so wrong. It was shocking to me that he kept giving me the same precipitous tapering schedule, even as it became obvious to me that it was too fast. I thought I just had a bad doctor. Turns out, I have a depressingly average doctor. I hope you feel better soon.
June 12, 2013 at 9:17 pm
Npanth, your thoughtful observations are much more trustworthy than a narrow-minded and drug-oriented approach that psychiatrists have to offer. I got a new psychiatrist, he agreed that I need to wean off of risperdal and klonopin but instead he raised the dose of remeron to 45mg and added trazodon – so just wants to reshuffle my cocktail applying his recipe. Despite all drugs I am taking I still get strong and long waves of depression and anxiety. He said that I can drop risperdal without tapering but klonopin only after I am stabilized – that wouldn’t happen in the nearest future. I am in despair and don’t know what to do. I will get rid of risperdal but not abruptly as he advises. But I don’t know what to do next. I’ve already raised remeron (i.e. going the opposite direction from what I planned). If I don’t follow his recommendations he wouldn’t continue with me, and I can’t lie to him either – that doesn’t make sense. Since I am on so many drugs I can’t go without a doctor as I did before I was put on those medications. Now it’s too risky to drift on my own. Any advice?
June 17, 2013 at 6:50 pm
I agree that lying to the doctor won’t help. It’s tempting. I know that sounds weird. After my doctor gave me so much bad advice about tapering, I really considered just telling him what he wanted to hear… and striking out on my own. In the end, I told him exactly what I was doing. He didn’t agree with much of it. He had many dire predictions about not filling all the new prescriptions. He thought I was wrong that Paxil was causing withdrawal.
It turns out that he misdiagnosed me completely. Still, I don’t want to be one of those militant, hysterical, anti drug, anti doctor people. There’s a fine line between applying critical thinking to a doctor’s diagnosis and dismissing his/her advice completely.
I think the best way forward is to try to determine which drug is causing which symptoms. If you can, try to figure out which symptoms they’re helping, too. It’s a tall order. I still only have an incomplete picture of all the things Paxil was doing to me. Take the symptoms that affect your quality of life the most, and work on tapering off that drug first.
I’d work with your doctor on the Risperdal tapering. Going cold turkey is almost always a traumatic way to get off a drug, especially an antipsychotic. Work out, or demand, a slow tapering schedule. I know it extends the time that you spend tapering, but it should diminish the withdrawal symptoms from the drug.
Try to resist attempts to add drugs to your prescription if you can. The more drugs that get added to the mix, the harder it becomes to figure which one’s doing what. Try to boil it all down to one drug at a time.
June 17, 2013 at 9:01 pm
Npanth, I am working on Risperdal tapering and my doctor suggested I’d drop it at once – he doesn’t even see that it’s a risky path. It’s absolutely impossible to figure what drug is causing which effect – it’s a devilish cocktail. And it’s all happening while withdrawal syndrome is still excruciating. For 2 weeks I’ve been experiencing so severe and unrelenting depression that I am barely surviving. How do I know what’s behind that terrible wave: if drugs – which one. I didn’t have so long and steady in it’s horrendous manifestation wave of depression before. May be I am going too fast with Risperdal but the dose is pretty small and the length of time I’ve been taking it is short. I know Klonopin could cause depression as a side effect. Whenever I am able to use my brain I am trying to sort it out but to no avail. I am totally consumed by those dangerous combination of drugs in addition to withdrawal. I am totally lost here. It’s absolutely unbearable what I am feeling lately. And I raised a remeron dose according to my doctor’s recommendation – he is trying to “treat my depression”. Again I don’t understand the nature of this depression – withdrawal phase, side effects, may be accumulation of drugs and still may be a genuine depression. If it’s a real depression I’d probably have to start on one of SSRI’s again that I’ve tried to avoid for so long by all possible means, even at the hospital when they pressed me to do that. How, for God’s sake, I could determine what’s going on? I am losing my mind. Please, help!
June 17, 2013 at 9:12 pm
I am so sorry for your state of being. Hang in there, you will come out the end better and better. The brain is incredible and will heal itself. I have been withdrawing for six months now and I would never have made it without my doctor in nutritional response testing. It is supporting my body’s needs and fixing my brain as I go through all these horrible stages. Please look it up and see if there is any testing in your area. It is just nutritional supplements but they are what your body needs at the time. The testing shows you exactly what you need so there is no doubt at all. The support to my brain and the healing is incredible.
Here is a site that helps you find local testings.
http://www.unsinc.info/nutrition-response-testing.html
Hang in there, you will get better. Your brain will heal..
June 17, 2013 at 9:30 pm
Thank you, Sylvia. I’ve tried so many modalities so far and each one of them made me worse (or didn’t help at all). I spent so much money with no positive result and have grown skeptical to those that sound promising and convincing but their ultimate goal is to get money out of you. Could you elaborate a little more on how it’s helped you. Thank you.
June 18, 2013 at 7:01 am
I have been on Anti-depressants for over 15 years now, and still depressed, of course. My sister in law has been going to the Nutritional Healing Center of Ann Arbor (Nutritional Response Testing) for years. She is the one person in my life that I have admired the most for having control over herself, physically and emotionally. My husband and I have had a lot of emotional upheaval over the last 3 years, mostly to do with fighting Children Services to adopt my nephews two girls, then 3 months, premature, born addicted to opiates, and a 7 yrs old. We only had two children and they are both grown, so we are older. This experience was so stressful that I was even more of a mess, if possible. I was so angry and mad all the time. I could not smile, I hated to be touched, hugged or anything from anyone, including my new daughter who is now 3 years old. I had every symptom of depression that has ever been mentioned, omg the brain fog was the worst, as well as so many other issues. I had tried for years to hold down a job and could usually make it about a year. I would give my notice while crying!! I started going to the http://www.thenutritionalhealingcenter.com/ about 8 months ago, for so many reasons, mainly pain from constant headaches. I was/am so upset with my medical doctor of over 15 years when he told me that everything I had been feeling was psychosomatic, as he prescribed thyroid medication, anti-depressants, vicodin, and 800 ibuprofen for me as well as so many other drugs. I can not even tell you everything that Nutritional Response Testing has done for me, the list would go on forever. I have lost 30 pounds and I actually have control instead of cravings over what I eat, I was never able to lay on my stomach because of the pressure in my head, which is gone now, my joints have almost stopped cracking from bending and picking up my little girl, so many aches and pains that were called psychosomatic, that were actually my body crying out for healing and nutrition not to mention the side effects from the medications. I had just reached a point in my life where I did not want to live like this anymore. Since January I went cold turkey off my anti depressant, which my Nutritional Response doctor told me not to do, hmm, I should have listened. I have been off all drugs now since then, except for Excedrin. My brain is really upset, I go through phases of pain, then ocd behaviors where my thoughts are just stuck, then I explode emotionally and usually its rinse, repeat over about a months time. The feelings of never being happy and no self satisfaction are over whelming. The supplement I take now, which took over 2 months for my body to test for after quitting anti-depressants is called Orchex, https://www.standardprocess.com/Products/Standard-Process/Orchex. It is 100% organic and I do not understand how anyone could go off meds without supplement support. My supplements are always changing, as my mind and body adjusts and heals itself. I have spent a lot of money on my supplements but the testing shows you exactly what “YOUR” body needs at the time, its not just widely prescribing/buying supplements on the off chance that it works. Before going to the clinic I had xrays done of my head and back, as well as a mouth brace for my jaw pain, and so many other tests. I could not believe the medical bills that followed from just those 2 things, with no results or actions to fix anything. This last months has seen my marriage improve to the point that I believe we will make it together, after 24 years, and we have bought a house and are moving out of this mold infested place we have called a home for over 18 years now. I just want to live and experience life again so I am creating all these changes instead of sitting compliantly by while my life whittles away. I want to sit in the sun and paint with my 3 year old and feel it! I want to be able to think about what my new 10 year old needs, intellectually instead of always being an emotional mess with her because I have no strength and can’t think correctly. I am so tired of not living for years and years. My in-laws are both in the hospital and they are only 17 years older then I am. I refuse to live in a medical induces compliance state that I was in, which offered no results at all.
The Nutritional Response Testing proves itself and it does not take long. There is nothing I can say to you about it except that you don’t have to believe or trust anyone but yourself, because you actually see and feel the results within a few weeks of starting “YOUR” supplements. Your initial visit cost is probably not even the cost of your medical doctor visit. It is the most incredible thing I have experienced since childbirth. I am still fighting, daily, but I can see the end. My withdraw phases are shorter, as well as the pain, and my husband looked at me last week and said, “you smiled at me”!!
Just keep fighting, you will find your way. I would never have gotten to this point in my life without Dr. Schmidt at the Nutritional Healing Center in Ann Arbor. His support and help has been life saving to me.
June 20, 2013 at 11:10 pm
Sylvia, thank you so much for unveiling your detailed almost life story. It sounds very convincing to me (Nutritional response testing) and I actually’ve found one in my area (I live in San Francisco, CA). But I still have some doubts because the Center you are going to could be excellent whereas another Center that claims to do the same thing might not be of that sort at all. Secondly, I spent tons of money already on many innovative alternative treatments. Just recently I went to the doctor of GI functional diagnostics (sounds close to what you are using). He discovered that my stomach acidity level is almost zero. It means that food doesn’t get absorbed and digested properly and as I just wrote in the previous post I think that serotonin level is affected dramatically by that. He recommend that since I have autoimmunity I should go on gluten and lactose free diet (Paleo diet is one of that sort). I have an opposite problem than you – I lost so much weight in withdrawal and don’t have any appetite. If I follow a suggested diet it would be very restrictive, I wouldn’t be able to eat any gluten containing food, any dairy and so on. I just get totally bewildered by all those controversial recommendations. Did the doctor you go to changed your diet in addition to prescribing supplements? Did you undergo any other treatment beside figuring what kind of supplements you need? I just realized that the most important for me now is to restore somehow my stomach function though I don’t really know how to do that. Let’s say, I am very deficient in amino acids that convert to serotonin and they’ll definitely discover that – what can I do about it – I already tried L-tryptophan and 5-HTP (precursors to serotonin) to no avail. I’d really like to have a doctor (practicing integrative medicine) with holistic approach and knowledge but so far I’ve encountered only those whos’ fees are very high but still narrow-minded just with a different approach. Would appreciate if you tell me what procedures they are doing for you except testing itself and supplements. Thank you
June 21, 2013 at 8:45 am
Hello Jane, I am so excited to see that you did find a Nutritional Response Testing in your area. I am actually faced with the same situation as you mentioned regarding the quality of care at different clinics as our new house has a testing clinic 30 minutes closer, each way. My drive to the clinic is 55 minutes right now, one way and some weeks, while trying to wrap my mind around anti-depressant withdraw, has seen me driving it at least twice. I believe I will have to switch to the closer clinic as both of my adult children are on the same anti-depressant as I was on and I can not let them get to the point where I was. If only I could afford to take them both, as well as my new ten year old who has ADHD issues and also my 3 year old, who has breathing issues as well as chronic ear infections. I believe in the Nutritional Response Testing. It shows exactly what your body needs. It does not matter if I have my favorite doctor do the testing or one of the other doctors. I actually like to switch every once in a while because I believe the different doctors check different areas more thoroughly, if that makes sense. None of that really matters at the start though, because in the beginning, your body will show one main organ that needs support and it will be obvious to any Nutritional Response Tester. It might not be related to your stomach at all, it may be your liver or kidneys that are taking up all the energy in your body, which may even be why your body can’t regulate/produce stomach acids. I was on one type of liver supplement or another for over 5 months! Once you start getting support for the organ that needs help, it frees up the rest of your body to function properly again. It is like frostbite, it always shows on your hands and feet because your body pulls all the energy to protect your main organs, so whatever organ is in need is getting all the energy that your body needs to heal, especially the energy your mind needs to heal itself. I believe the mind is probably the lowest priority to your body when there are organs that are fighting to survive. If I remember correctly, in the beginning, it was about every two to three weeks that my body showed another weak area and I would start my supplement and within hours, I would feel better. My sister in law, who I mentioned earlier, talked a little bit about her weight loss. She was pretty tiny, at one point. Here is a link to a website that is awesome concerning nutrition and this was a lot of the information that has helped me to feed myself and my family with real, unprocessed foods. http://www.westonaprice.org/ You are really smart in being concerned about cutting out any of the foods that are keeping your weight controllable at this point. Is there any way for you to find healthy alternatives to some of the food you do like now? Perhaps unprocessed wheat products? Please check the Weston Price Foundation web site, as I remember reading about healthy ways to promote stomach support. I believe it was in fermented foods but am not really sure. I stopped drinking the drug on the market called “Soda” and I really haven’t had to many problems with my stomach anymore. I pray that you make the jump and go to the Nutritional Response Testing clinic. I would not be were I am today without them, as I watch my mother get so heavy that she can’t even paint her toenails anymore.
Best of luck to you and keep searching for your solution.
June 20, 2013 at 6:50 pm
I’m so sorry this is happening to you, Jane. It’s frustrating to watch and only be able to give small advice. I know how hard it is to go through it.
It can be really hard to tell which drug is causing what. You’re right that klonopin has a side effect of depression. I think you’re doing the right thing by starting on Risperdal. Going cold turkey is very hard. You’re right that your tapering period should be shorter because you were on it for a shorter period of time. Try to be firm with your doctor that you want to taper of Risperdal slowly. It can be hard when you’re feeling so down. Just keep trying. That effort will help, eventually.
It feels insurmountable right now, but small steps will get traction eventually.
One thing that might help is to share your story with people. Try writing something about what you’re feeling for yourself at first. There are some bulletin boards that help people in withdrawal. Sometimes, it’s easier to separate your feelings from each other when you write them down.
It seems weird, but I’ve learned more about my progress, and sometimes my lack of progress, in the eyes of my friends.
Hang in there. Try to keep telling yourself that this is a temporary thing, something that will get better in time.
June 20, 2013 at 10:07 pm
Thank you, npanth, as always for your supporting words. I am following your advice to share posting my new developments (not on the bright side though) here. Today some new thoughts (as always, not consoling) have crossed my mind. Tell me if you agree or disagree – both are welcome. Most antidepressants work on receptors as antagonists downregulating their function to aim for more neurotransmitter circulation in the brain, they don’t generate more serotonin or boost it’s production. I am trying to make a point here taking into account my case. After prolonged usage of SNRI receptors stop functioning properly – they’ve been suppressed for a long time. That’s why when you get off of the drug you face withdrawal and if you wait for some time, that probably exceeds 3-4 ms, withdrawal process changes a biochemistry in the way that your subsequent depression becomes treatment resistant. So the goal is to produce more serotonin, not deactivate receptors any more. In my case, I had some testing (non-conventional, of course) that revealed that the level of acidity in my stomach is almost 0. In addition, I have H-pylori that also shift stomach flora to be more alkaline. And, correct me if I am wrong, most serotonin is produced in GI tract. So given all these facts the environment for serotonin generation in my GI tract is not favorable at all – to the contrary. In addition, the more medications I take – the worse stomach flora becomes, since those chemicals kill good bacteria and probably neutralize stomach acid. How to find a solution to this puzzle? Certainly, as you advised gradually get off of all psychotropic drugs they put me on. Now I understand that no dose increase will make my depression lift. That’s why I am very scared to go back on SSRIs. I hope I’d be able to wean off remeron – it doesn’t have a bad withdrawal reputation – am I wrong? But hypothetically it’ll take me about 6-7 ms to get off – what if I develop severe anxiety again that brought me to the hospital in the first place. Would greatly appreciate your and anybody else’s input.
June 20, 2013 at 9:21 am
I’m very worried about the possible weight change I might experience when coming off fluoxetine.
I’m 31 year old male, 5′ 8.5″ and weight about 10st 7 (147lb).
I’ve previously suffered from anorexia nervosa for about 20 months. It started around September 2011 and by May 2012 I was 7st 12lb. In September I started to recover and by the middle of October I was 10st 5. I became very depressesd, relapsed and maintained 8st 5 from Christmas to March. In January I was put on fluocetine to help with depression but it didn’t work immediately and I didn’t start to recover until April this year, when I gained rapidly and I’ve been maintaining 10st 7 since the middle of May.
I’m worried that when I come of the drug I could loose or gain weight which could cause me to relapse again. Either extreme would be very dangerous. I still often find eating hard and if I have stomach problems I could stop altogether and if I gain a lot and become overweight, I could go on a diet.
I’ve not spoken to the doctor who prescribed me with it yet. I have a feeing I could be on fluoxetine for the rest of my life which doesn’t bother me because I’ve not noticed any bad side effects.
June 20, 2013 at 7:07 pm
The best way to minimize withdrawal symptoms is to taper very slowly. It seems like the strength of symptoms has more to do with the change in dose, rather than the total dose. For instance, going from 10mg of a drug to 5mg is a 50% drop. Going from 40mg to 35mg is only about a 12% drop. Even though 10mg is a lower dose, you would expect to get more severe symptoms from that drop than from 40mg.
You’re right to be concerned about weight change in withdrawal, especially since you are already sensitive to it. Weight change and digestive problems are one of the most common symptoms of SSRI withdrawal. It’s very hard to eliminate the symptoms, but you can minimize them by going very slowly. Try to make your tapers no more than 10% of your last dose. You can find a spreadsheet that calculates 10% tapers at www. Paxilprogress.org
If you are doing well on Flouxetine, hang with it for a while. Tapering off an SSRI is a long process. It’s best to be at a point in your life where you feel that getting off will make things better for you.
June 22, 2013 at 8:15 pm
Npanth,you are so right about a very slow taper off SSRI’s,I tried to taper off Xanax with disastrous results.
I miscalculated how long I was off my ssri,it only been 6 months and my GI problems are back in full swing.
I almost ended up in the ER several times in the last 2 weeks and finally gave up on the taper,per my Psychs advice.
The anxiety is off the charts and i don’t think a .125 cut in X would bring on the fear,anxiety and my not being able to walk with out holding on to something,I up dosed and almost immediately my symptoms abated .
My psych can not believe that such a small cut could bring on such serious symptoms,but she admitted that everybody is different and i am very sensitive to any change in dosage.
I know I said that the X was the problem, but now I think C/ting from my SSRI is really behind this and the X is only making things worse, unfortunately I can not go back on an SSRI/SNRI or any other meds because I am so sensitive to anything i take,,thank you Drs for misdiagnosing me and making me hypersensitive to and A/ds.
I have no choice now but to go back on my old dosage of 1mg ER Xanax 2 times a day supplemented by quick acting
.5 mgs X when needed.
I have not felt right for 10 yrs,but looking back,i was never this bad,My QOL right now sucks and I need stability more than i need to get off these drugs.
Like emma, I feel that I have to do whats best for me,and worry about the future later.
If and when I reach some stability ,if i want to try again it will be a micro taper.
I don’t know if anybody has had any success c/ting from an SSRI,but as I stated in another post ,it wasn’t my choice to do so,one of my psych told me too,because the 25ms of Luvox was doing me absolutely nothing,how little did he know.
Anyways, I’m right back to square one again and I really don’t think this is going to turn out the way i want.it to.
Jay
p.s I have talked to emma and she is doing better, not 100 % but much better than she was a few months ago.
June 26, 2013 at 2:06 pm
I’m glad Emma is doing better.
It could be that you have to wait a little while before trying to taper again. When I’ve tried bigger than normal tapers, sometimes, I have to stay at a dose for longer than normal before I can taper again. It seems like sensitivity goes up after a big dosage change. Hopefully, you’ll be able to try another taper soon.
June 24, 2013 at 11:10 am
How do you go through all this without destroying your marriage? I was on zoloft 8 yrs. Weaned myself off. Tried getting off twice before. Ended up taking it again to save my marriage. Have been completely off for 2 mos. Not doing too well. Anxiety. Negative. Mood swings. Down. WTF. No good being on it — numb, unmotivated, half-life. Worse being off. Not sure what to do. Marriage dying.
June 26, 2013 at 2:13 pm
SSRI withdrawal can be really hard on relationships. The anger, anxiety, depression, it all puts a lot of pressure on people… Whether they’re the one tapering or not.
Usually, the best way to minimize symptoms is to wean really slowly. 10% tapers are usually small enough to keep symptoms manageable. If you feel that you are extra sensitive, or anger easily, then try a slower taper. It can take a while, but the extra time helps smooth out the bumps.
June 26, 2013 at 3:03 pm
Thanks for your input npanth. I appreciate it very much as well as all that everyone is sharing here. It really helps to know there’s a reason for all this besides total insanity or personal defect. I tapered off Zoloft slowly when I went off this time and stopped taking it completely 2 mos ago (I think). Everything was fine. The withdrawal symptoms weren’t as severe as the previous 2 times I tried to quit because I did it so slowly. Then I noticed that I was having trouble thinking, focusing and sometimes understanding simple things. Next came mood swings that seem to happen in cycles. It hits a peak when I feel like the only solution is to paddle my kayak so far into the Gulf I wouldn’t be able to make it back. Don’t know why my husband hasn’t left yet. It’s pretty awful. Read some of the posts here that talked about magnesium so I’m taking 6 a day. Last 2 days have been better. Either because the cycle is in a low ebb or because of the magnesium. Almost out-of-body watching for it to get bad again. Very weird.
June 26, 2013 at 3:26 pm
Try to impress on him that this isn’t normal for you, and it’s not a permanent condition.
That’s one of the things about withdrawal. The anger and the rest isn’t there because withdrawal is exposing some hidden part of your personality. It’s as if the filter between intellect and imagination is disabled. You can still interact in an argument, but your normal mind is just a bystander. It will get better. I’m actually better at watching what I say and how I act now that I’ve gone through it.
He needs to have some patience for now, but it’s not forever. I guess you need to have patience with yourself, too 🙂
June 24, 2013 at 6:52 pm
You know ,all I ever read on all the boards ,is people going through hell and looking for answers they never get.
what their told, is just hang in there, it will pass you will get better,or I had that same symptom several months ago,but now it’s gone and another one has taken it’s place.
the problem that i have with these boards is. no one ever comes back and tells you that they are 100% better,it’s always
well I’m better than i was a year ago but I’m still having problems.
I think we are going about this the wrong way, I think we need talk therapy along with tapering ,if you don;t get the support
and learn behavioral modification, you will never get better. I see more and more people giving up and reinstating because they can;t handle the w/d symptoms and to be honest ,neither can I.
I am giving my psych one more chance to come up with a solution ,if I don’t get better in the next couple of months,I am going into a clinic that my sister in law went to and i’m not getting out until I feel I’m capable of living in the real world again,she had a nervous break down and now she is one of the top 10 Nurses in the State of CT.I talked to her tonight and i will talk to her tomorrow ,I will get all the details and like I said,my psych has one last chance.
June 24, 2013 at 8:23 pm
Jay
You are absolutely right.
I have spent essentially my entire adult life on medicine. Over the last 18 months I have dealt with life without medicine. There have been countless times that I have said to myself “wow that’s a new feeling”. It only makes sense that I need to basically re-learn how to live life and its infinite situations. On top of re-learning life I have had to endure pain and feelings that normal people cant even begin to understand because of the withdrawl from these meds and the damage they have done to my brain.
Learning a med free life is not easy and really deathly scary at times. I have had a few windows of normalssy but not enough to say I’m better.
I wanted and expected to feel better as soon as I stoped taking meds. How could I expect to feel better that fast without having a clue how to live without meds. Self help or help from a person that can NOT prescribe meds can only help. The problem I have run into is these type of people are typically affiliated with a prescribing doc that inevitably wants to get involved. This class of hypocritical doctors are of no help to someone who is re-learning life skills. They need to re-learn their skills and not just push meds.
I don’t personally think being or commiting ones self to an institution can help. I must say i have thought about it many times. You will only learn the life of what is taught in the four walls of the institution not what what the big bad world throws at you daily.
This life I’m currently living truely sucks!!! I can only try to re-learn it and make it better. I will continue to try and figure it out even during the excrutiating physical and mental pain.
Jay I believe you have the right idea.
June 24, 2013 at 10:03 pm
What I want to add to your Jay and Dano comments that reinstating or going on psycho drugs again don’t guarantee you’ll feel better again. I was put on the bunch of drugs after over a year drug free break in the hospital, the only thing I adamantly opposed to – not to go back on SSRI again. Now I am suffering no less, may be more than before b/c I had waves and windows, now it’s solid depression, no breaks for a long time, side effects from those medications, possible addiction to benzo (I am sure I’ve already developed it for 3 ms), I have no ideal which drug is causing what and there is no way of finding that out. Before I could get by without seeing psychiatrist, now I am trapped – I have to see him, and it’s the same story again and again – raise the dose, replace one drug by another or add something. All they can do is prescribing this poisonous stuff without giving it a second thought. Before there was me and there was withdrawal, now it’s many more variables and in no way feeling better. I am taking remeron as AD, on last visit he raised the dose and I feel even much worse but I can’t figure whether it’s this drug making such an effect or others, or still withdrawal. Now I have a long tumultuous way in front of me to get rid of those drugs. But how can I do that if I feel so awful – it’s a rhetoric question, nobody has an answer to it, certainly – not my psych.
June 26, 2013 at 2:27 pm
I agree that most people don’t continue to post after recovering. I know a couple people who have made it through withdrawal. For the most part, they don’t really talk about it very much. I think there is a natural tendency to put it out of your mind once the crisis has passed.
I’ve done the same thing to a certain degree. I used to post a lot on a withdrawal bulletin board. I haven’t been there a lot in the past couple months.
It’s frustrating, but I think it’s something that most people experience. It makes it harder to see the end when people don’t talk about it. I reached a stable point in withdrawal about 7 months ago. I don’t have bad symptoms anymore, and I’m still tapering. Like you, I searched for success stories for a long time. I didn’t find many, not because they don’t exist, but because people don’t write about it. I was forced to make my own success story, not because of any special inner strength, but just from outlasting the symptoms.
I think you’re right that “hang in there” is a poor substitute for concrete advice. The problem is that we don’t have the resources to really come up with viable alternatives. I don’t have a medical degree. I can’t really tell people to take a drug, or give advice beyond my personal experience. We don’t have the resources to study withdrawal to really understand it. We’re limited to community and anecdotal support. I wish I could give advice that would make a measurable difference to the folks who comment here, but I feel like I’m walking a very fine line as it is.
June 25, 2013 at 6:09 am
Dano,Jane
we have been here for quite sometime and to be honest, we are still complaining about the same symptoms or we’ve been put on more drugs which only made our condition worse,I don’t want to go into a clinic,personally I think there for people who are bipolar or scitzo.
Jane I don’t know how you do it day in and day out,but it just proves that you are a fighter and only want to get better,but the answer to your well being is not more drugs,like everyone here and all the other boards, we want our lives back before drugs,but I don’t want to discourage any one,but from what I have read and heard ,that this may never happen,a least not to the extent that we will be 100% ,these drugs down regulate the brain and depending how long and how much there is no doubt that the drugs have changed our thinking and all we do fixate on the bad and never on the good.
I have no answer,and I doubt that most DR’s don’t ether,their just as ignorant or just disregard the warnings that A/Ds and Benzo can be addictive and very hard if not impossible to get off of,especially if you’ve been on them for a long time.
Dano, my point is that you have been drug free for 18 months , I have read where people 5 yrs down the road are still having problems.
Drugs are not the answer,but once your on them forever will they rule your life,you have to relearn to compensate for the alteration’s the drugs have caused,I see no other solution.
Jay
June 25, 2013 at 11:16 am
I think you could be right Jay, but you we have to have hope, thats all there is x
June 25, 2013 at 6:24 am
hey guys, I think diffrent things work for diffrent people. We read all the time about people that go off drugs for a few years to then go back on them, yet these people dont have problems reinstating, they dont even call it reinstatement they just think they need the drugs again, take them and everything gets back to normal. we could be one of those people. I am now nearly 8 weeks back on a drug, a completley diffrent drug and I am definatley in a much much much better place than I was, I have been on what they call theraputic dose ( or dose that most people inprove on) for only 3 weeks so another few weeks of healing to go but i am definatley going in the rights direction, my sleep is back to 8 hours a night uninterupted, no panic attcks, not scared or depressed anymore, the only 2 symptoms I am left with which I am assured should ease up in a few weeks is anviety (which is ironic as i wasnt diagnosed with withdrarwal as no shrink thinks it can get that bad, I was diagnosed with general anxiety disorder) but it isnt anxiety that turns into panic, it is just sat there and comes and goes but is there every day and uncomfortable and horrible but not debilitating, like i said ironic as i am supposedly being treated for anxiety so if it doesnt pitter out which i think it will, i will address this with my psychtrist, and the other symptom is i feel the need to cry at least once a day, not because i am sad, just because that is how it feels, and I dont mind that symptom as I spent so many years on seroxat/paxil complaining of not being able to cry, I embrace it now, however my shrink says that crying is anxiety, that babies cry because they are anxious not just for the sake of it. So anyway hopefully these 2 things will dissapear, or i may have to try something in the same family of drugs, I am on imipramine a very old first ever antidepressant in the Trycycilic family. I have always experienced when I have been on drugs previousley that with a drug dose increase came an increase in symptoms for 6 or so weeks, my doctor who is not a shrink said I need to give a dose increase 8 to 10 weeks, but life is liveable and getting more enjoyable by the day, I can actually start to make plans. I am thankfull that taking something is clearly working for me, and I feel so bad for those who have tried taking things again and it hasnt worked. I still fully belive in withdrarawl and I hate having drugs in my body, but i do everything else in my life so cleanly, I drink vegeatable juices, I am a good weight, I dont drink or smoke or eat meat, so at least the rest of me does not need drugging, and as someone said to me the other day coca cola is a chemical but most people consume it every day. I will continue to repair my body get in a stable good place and taper probabley over a year or two when i feel that i am ready. Dr David Healy as specialist on withdrarwl recomends the drug I am on to help with the taper off of ssri and snri as it is considerabley lower in serotonin. I am so proud of all of you that are sticking with it, Jay in particular I think of you often and Dano I am sure you will get there soon, and Jane life will only get better for you in the future, I admire you all, I couldnt keep going and luckily I have got help and will try and try and try again until I succed. I will updaye you in a few weeks about the anxiety. Npanth also very proud of you, and SInead if you come on how are you doing?? x
June 26, 2013 at 10:18 pm
Greetings, where to begin. Well for starters, some of you will undoubtedly recognize me from the many forums I have queried regarding my personal struggle with PSSD. I’ll try to summarize my back story as briefly as I can.
Last August I began taking 10mg of Citalopram (Celexa) for three months. I then stupidly binged on 100mg over a two day span and got so violently ill I decided to quit cold turkey. I withstood withdrawal for over a month before caving in and reinstating at 10mg. I proceeded to slowly taper over the next two months so as to withdraw more cautiously. Unfortunately for me, withdrawal the second time around was just as debilitating, if not more devastating. If you google Celexa you’ll find a laundry list of side effects, all of which I was subjected to.
It has now been roughly 6 months since I quit the insidious SSRI for good and I am still suffering from PSSD. Throughout my agonizing and protracted withdrawal, I could actually feel my brain gradually disconnecting from and shutting down my pleasure zone. A sequence of wires loosening and unplugging, thus reducing pleasurable sensations into dwindling static traces before completely fading out. I suppose I would liken such an ordeal to losing one’s sight or hearing. I am persistently plagued by ejaculatory anhedonia and am no longer sexually attracted to women.
So far doctors and pharmacists have not provided me with any viable solutions. And while I do not in any way discount the invaluable feedback I have received from generous and compassionate correspondents, among several essential forums covering SSRI use, I would be remiss to ignore the frightful conclusion on wikipedia, corroborated by the formidable SSRIsex Yahoo Support Group, stating, quote, “there is no known cure for PSSD.”
Equally disturbing is the the wikipedia entry for Citalopram under the adverse effects section proclaiming:
“Sexual dysfunction is often a side effect with SSRIs. Specifically, common side effects include difficulty becoming aroused, lack of interest in sex, and anorgasmia (trouble achieving orgasm). Genital anesthesia, loss of or decreased response to sexual stimuli, and ejaculatory anhedonia are also possible. Although usually reversible, in some people these sexual side effects become permanent after the drug has been completely withdrawn. This is known as post-SSRI sexual dysfunction.”
And so, I guess, I have one burning question that I pose again and again, appealing to the world over, and that question is basically this: How on earth can I possibly reverse my PSSD?
It’s worth noting that the most common responses I have collected thus far are to either do nothing or take Wellbutrin. With the exception of trying a host of vitamins and supplements, thus far, I have stuck with the former and have impatiently bided my time. I have no idea how long I can hold out doing nothing before I shift gears and take drastic measures, leaving no stone unturned.
So there we have it. Any all comments are welcome and greatly appreciated. I’m particularly interested in hearing your thoughts on Wellbutrin. Yay or nay?
July 4, 2013 at 5:32 pm
Unfortunately, the best solution I’ve found for the majority of withdrawal symptoms is time. Supplements and vitamins can help, but it seems like time is the best remedy. I hope it turns around for you soon. I had dysfunction for a long time while on Paxil. It’s starting to come back now. It’s slow and frustrating, but it is getting better.
July 4, 2013 at 8:48 pm
can you die from antidepressant withdrawal Im worried
July 9, 2013 at 8:27 pm
As traumatic as SSRI withdrawal can be, permanent damage is very rare. It feels like the damage is permanent sometimes. The symptoms can be very profound, but all but a very small percentage recover in time. I hope you feel better soon. Hang in there.
July 11, 2013 at 2:01 am
What does it mean if the withdrawal description fits my experience while ON an ssri and not coming off it? Can anyone help me out? I was on Lexapro 15mg per day and felt the out of control mood states that really seemed to correlate to the description above for withdrawal symptoms. Is it that the drug was doing something wrong with my serotonin levels/making them too low or too high?
By the way, I have been off the drug for five days now and have been in an increasingly better mood..it literally feels like I woke up from a slumber where I was walking around with shades over my eyes..
July 13, 2013 at 7:14 pm
I also felt like I was waking up when I started tapering off Paxil. It’s wonderful to feel cognition coming back. I had a lot of withdrawal symptoms, but that returning feeling of self has kept me going.
Having adverse reactions while on the drug usually means that you have a particular sensitivity to the drug. Some people do visibly deteriorate on the drugs. SSRI affect everyone a little differently. Some people do very well on them, others do not. It’s good that you recognized that something wasn’t working and did something about it.
July 12, 2013 at 2:56 am
This is the only piece of writing that has given me any hope, I basically feel as though my life has been ruined by Effexor. I changed from Paxil to effexor after being on Paxil for 6 months as it was making me very emotionally numb, I took effexor for two weeks but noticed that it made things even worse and made me really really anxious, I went through a thing called derealization where I could not connect with anyone or anything, I felt like my life was a video game and I was terryfied every day. I’ve now been off Effexor for 5 days, I tapered off. I am connected to myself again and I know I’m alive, which I didn’t before, I doubted my existence every day, now I don’t. However nothing looks familiar to me, it’s as though I don’t have an emotional connection to my surroundings, I don’t have that warm fuzzy feeling you have when you’re home or excited feelings when I do my favourite things anymore, Ive lived in the same town for 20 years and use to be connected to everything, now nothing. And my emotions arent all there, yes I laugh and at times I’ve been very angry but that’s all, I was in love before this drug and now I cannot even think of him because I feel nothing and that really scares me….Will I be like this forever, is this normal?? I just want the old me back, the me that wanted to do something with her life and loved everyone and everything around her….I need reassurance
July 12, 2013 at 3:58 am
Effexor ruined my marriage. We didnt realize what the problem was until it was to late.
July 13, 2013 at 7:20 pm
SSRI can have profound effects on relationships. It did for me, too. I didn’t realize how much I had changed until old friends started commenting on how the “old me” was coming back. They didn’t know I’d started taking Paxil, or started tapering off it. They just knew that I “checked out” about 10 years ago, and now I seem like my old self again. Scary stuff.
July 13, 2013 at 7:18 pm
Derealization is very common when tapering off an SSRI. It’s one of the big symptoms, along with anxiety, depression, gastrointestinal problems.
It does get better in time. Sometimes, it seems like it takes too long to get feelings back, but it should slowly return to normal. One day, you’re laughing and feel quite normal. The next, it feels like a setback. The good days slowly outnumber the bad until you can’t remember the last time you had a lot of trouble connecting with the things around you. Hang in there.
July 13, 2013 at 4:29 pm
While I am very sorry to read about all the problems everyone has with depression and meds, it is good to know I’m not alone and am not crazy. I was on sertraline for a year and a half. The improvement was subtle: things didn’t bother me the way they used to, but the downside is that I stopped caring about things I should. I gained 30 lbs. (although I was too skinny before), my house was a wreck, it was through sheer force of will (and fear) that I managed to complete drawings (I’m an artist). Another odd thing was that for 18 years I enjoyed maybe a glass of wine or two per week, if that, but within a few months of starting sertraline, I began drinking much more frequently and heavily. I just didn’t care about the consequences. Maybe it’s coincidental or circumstantial. At any rate I wasn’t really ‘depressed’ anymore, at least not as badly, but I also didn’t ‘feel’ anymore. It was as if I was incapable of intense emotion good or bad.
I tapered off sertraline, made it through the 3-4 weeks of brain buzzes, crying spells and dizziness. Now, two months later, I feel I’m more depressed than ever. I feel like my life has become a big act, pretending to be normal to keep those around me happy when inside I have no will to live and don’t look forward to anything. I’ve been tempted to go back on the sertraline, but after reading this, I guess the best thing to do is tough it out. I don’t remember my pre-sertraline depression being as bad or persistent as this. My relationships and career are suffering due to my being depressed and withdrawn. Like I said, it’s just so exhausting forcing myself to ‘be normal’ to make it through life. I don’t know how much longer I can keep this up. I’m hoping this is sort of like the drop in blood sugar after a sugar high and once I make it through this trough I’ll come back up and level out?
July 13, 2013 at 7:27 pm
Some of the withdrawal symptoms can be prolonged. They aren’t all long term symptoms. Depression is very common in withdrawal. It’s very hard to deal with sometimes because it affects every aspect of your life.
Reinstating is a very variable thing, affecting each person differently. I was able to reinstate and start a slower taper. Other folks here have more problems reinstating.
Head zaps and worse depression are signs of a too fast taper. You can stick it out. It might get bumpy, but it will even out in time. One thing the brain is very good at is healing and reorganizing from the receptor changes that SSRI make. It can be wrenching at times, but it does happen. I hope it gets better soon for you.
July 15, 2013 at 4:06 am
Okay so I took valium today 2mg and it honestly made me feel like myself again, I feel 100% like I did before all of this horrible anxiety took over me, I mean it was strange at first because my mind was no longer racing and i thought “Ah what why is my mind clear this isnt normal” but I just forgot what normal was, I feel connected again, I feel like I want to do things again, I feel like I could actually live again. But I’m afraid, is valium ok to take? or will I get an addiction then have to taper off and get all my anxieties back? I mean its honestly doing wonders for me but I don’t want to hurt myself in the long run, I’m unsure of what to do now. I mean it’s great that its made me feel so normal because I know what was going on with me was obviously just anxiety, but it wasn’t an anxiety I could control, I tried for weeks to just go out and ignore it etc, but it never got any better, I mean slightly better but there were still days I thought id be lost forever and Id sit there and cry and cry and consider taking my own life, and it scared the heck out of me. Just need some advice, valium, is it worth it?
July 15, 2013 at 4:39 am
I’m basically thinking I can take 2mg a day just to keep me calm so I can go out and engage in the world again, and hopefully eventually I won’t need the valium anymore, but I dont know, I dont want any more issues with this anxiety because it’d just drive me nuts. So yea, any suggestions.
Also npanth, you are truly amazing, thank you so much for going out of your way to help people like you do, it really does take a special person to do something like that.
July 22, 2013 at 2:18 pm
Valium is a benzo, which is an addictive class of drugs. Usually, it’s best to only take it when you really need it. Still, if it provides some relief, you shouldn’t feel like you need to suffer to avoid future problems. The fact that you’re taking it now doesn’t mean that you’ll need to take it next week. It’s the same with dose. Taking a couple mg today doesn’t mean that’s how much you need next week. Just try to keep away from the dosage increase spiral where tolerance forces you to take a larger dose to get the same effect.
I’m glad that Valium helped. Be cautious about how you use it, and that you will have to taper off it eventually and you’ll be good.
July 25, 2013 at 2:55 pm
Hi. I have been on lexapro for 6-8 years or so and was taken off it completely in a psych hospital say. I know this feeling, the dizzy – whoops my eyes stopped a foot before my head moved, gotta catch up, feeling and now the familiar emotions from before I started taking it.
I just want to say that I have found it silly how the professionals seem to think there isn’t any kind of withdrawal from lexapro.
What a serious problem.
August 5, 2013 at 4:06 pm
Isn’t it something ow doctors treat this whole class of drugs as interchangeable and harmless? I was flabbergasted when I first tried to follow my doctor’s tapering schedule. It was way too fast. I crashed very hard, and I think that experience has extended my overall withdrawal. The good thing about that experience is that it showed me that I needed to take tapering very seriously, and do it very slowly. I ope you feel better soon.
July 25, 2013 at 9:03 pm
Im not taking valium anymore, I took it 2 days last week then decided it best to just stop and do this myself. I must say I am feeling ok, I am back inside my body, I know I’m here and I’m alive, the existential thoughts that plagued me (Am I here, is this real, is life a dream, what’s the point, are people a figment of my imagination) stopped a few days ago, the being scared stopped. I feel as though a I get over a phase of derealization every week or so. But I still feel disconnected, like I’m miles away from everyone else and I don’t quite fit in, like ill never be normal and live a normal life again, this feeling almost completely vanishes when I go out though, I’m really afraid at first but after a while of interacting I feel almost like my old self again. 4 weeks ago I was afraid to even leave the house, I spent all day crying, I didn’t even know who I was, now I can do whatever I want, and the only issue I have is that I’m frustrated with the lack of emotions and connections I have, and that I still fear the feeling ever returning so I think I over analyse every feeling I have, unless I’m super busy. I’m still annoyed that my home town looks fairly unfamiliar to me. Í’m also still dizzy a lot of the time, but my psych said it might take around 6 weeks for Effexor to be fully out of my system, I’d just like it if someone who’s experienced this or knows about all this could tell me that it sounds as though I have made progress, that I am getting better, sometimes I think I’m not and Im just use to it and that upsets me, I don’t want to be use to it, I want it gone.
August 5, 2013 at 4:12 pm
I think you have made progress. Not only is it progress to recognize the symptoms, and feel empowered to confront them, it is also progress to overcome them as you have. Sometimes in withdrawal, going out your door is a victory. Anhedonia, the disconnected, surreal feeling, is very common in withdrawal. It breaks up unevenly. One day, I was watching youtubes, and realized that I was crying. I had been laughing and didn’t realize it. It was a weird feeling… It was a feeling! From there, other things started to come back. I still had bouts of grey emotions, but it has come back. Be patient with ourself, and don’t try to push ourself into getting your emotions back. They will recover. I ope you have that weird kind of backhanded laugh soon.
July 31, 2013 at 3:40 am
Hi, Im getting brain zaps at night. Ive come off the sleeping tablet (clorazapam) for three days now (started taking it on and off for the last two months). My pharmacist told me to take Melatonin for up to two months until the brain zaps diminish. My question is, do you think brain zaps will diminish over time with Melatonin?
August 5, 2013 at 4:24 pm
I’m not sure how melatonin will affect your brain zaps. I didn’t try any supplements for the majority of my taper. The brain zaps are usually an initial symptoms. They’re usually replaced by other symptoms like joint aches, anger, and depression over time. Some people only have the zaps for a while, then start to get better from there. I hope you’re one of the folks who only has the short term effects.
July 31, 2013 at 10:18 am
Anyone had any results using Neuralactin?
http://naturaldispensary.co.uk/products/Neuralactin_Plus_28_s-7574-0.html
August 11, 2013 at 9:17 am
I was on Zoloft for 5 years. I lost an adult child and was unable to cope at all for over a year. Discovered complicated grief counseling ( a life saver) and was Rx Zoloft.
Dose increased to 125 mg daily ( which made me nuts and interfered with my Synthroid ; made me severely hypothyroid) Stayed on 100 mg until this year. Was having tingling around mouth- thyroid levels normal. Began weaning off Zoloft, tingling disappeared the first week. Tapered the dose over one month, ending Zoloft on March 30th. Thyroid then hyperactive- synthroid adjusted, now thyroid levels normal. I experienced, and am still experiencing, extreme anger, no tolerance, anxiety, feel like crying- now daily headaches. Doc ( new Doc, as I have moved, says my brain needs to adjust to not having the Zoloft– when is THAT going to happen) I told my husband that if I was married to me , I would have left by now. What now?
August 11, 2013 at 11:29 am
You sound like I feel. So much anger. One day normal, next day a whack job. My marriage is going down the tubes. I pray there’s a special place in hell for all the doctors that prescribe meds without knowing/caring what the long term effects will be. Despite the side effects and the death of creativity and passion, I’ve been thinking about going back on. Can’t go on like this.
August 11, 2013 at 11:41 am
I am going to try going back on small dose, not over 25 mg- then taper off slower. If I did the calculations correctly, the weaning off the first time would have take 6 or more months !
August 11, 2013 at 12:03 pm
I hope it works for you. Good luck.
August 16, 2013 at 8:04 pm
I had the SSRI rage for a long time, too. Absolutely everything pissed me off. It’s a really scary symptom. The normal emotional filters seem to be disabled in withdrawal. The only thing I could do was be conscious of the idea that I was acting out of character, and suppressing them myself. I think that the whole range of emotions is available to us. Wen someone cuts you off while driving, the mind thinks of everything. From ignoring it to running them off the road, the whole range is there. We don’t notice the more angry responses because we automatically filter them out. Withdrawal disables that filter, making the most powerful emotion the strongest.
Try your best to keep from getting too angry. Keep reminding your husband that this is a temporary thing, not a permanent personality change. The old you will come back. At this point, I don’t get fired up when someone blocks the aisle at the supermarket anymore. Thank goodness. Good luck, and hang in there. It will get better.
August 12, 2013 at 6:09 pm
Hi Guys,
Just wanted to give you an update on my journey. I am now at month 16 of my withdrawal from Lexapro (basically c/t from 20 mg over 1-2 months after 3-4 years of use). I have found that some of my symptoms have disappeared (like the deep depression/intense anxiety/ suicidal ideation/ deep feelings of emptiness, whilst others now seem to come on strong for about a month and then decrease in intensity. In June I had really bad intrusive thoughts/images that were very constant – these again have become minimal and now only appear every now and then. In July I had the ocd type obsessive thinking, it hit out of the blue and then disappeared again. This month for the first time I have been struggling with eye floaters (my dr seems to think they are from a bad flu that I have had and is related to all the coughing I have done – could be but still scary) I have not mentioned to her about my withdrawal. Along side this I am having problems with weakness in my leg on my right side (this has been happening since month 9) and I am having quite a severe bout of numbness on the left side of the face and upper left side of my back (numbness in face appeared immediately in withdrawal and my back numbness at around month 9). These sensations come and go throughout the day and have been with me intensely for the last week and a half. I also feel like I keep mixing up my words and am getting sensations of pins and needles in my hands and feet ( I had this in the first stages of withdrawal). I am also getting derealization very often ( last couple of months it would be for a couple of days and now it is daily). It is so hard to keep telling myself that this withdrawal and not some other type of disease like or MS or a brain tumor. If anyone can offer and support I would really appreciate it. I have stayed strong for so long, but at times you start to wonder…could this still be it or is there something more serious going on. I have a daughter so I feel like I should be getting tests or something to make sure it is not more serious, but on the other side not dr believes in withdrawal, so I feel very lost and hopeless.
August 12, 2013 at 6:33 pm
I don’t know if I’m in a position to talk, as I’m not a dr and have only been coming off of Lexapro for a month or so now, but it sort of sounds like a symptom or two may not really be withdrawal.
The numbness, well, I’m not sure about that, but I know that I didn’t seem to notice the pain in my legs/body while I was taking it; it was as if Lexapro desensitized me from what I felt. Now, I’m so aware of my body and feel things that could have been ignored before.
I really do hope it works out for you. For me, I can deal with any physical withdrawal “symptom,” but it’s the mental/emotional stuff that leads me to think I Need to go back on Lexapro again-it’s almost like a sensation that I am stuck in an emotional cell forever-and for that, I would do anything to get out of.
August 16, 2013 at 8:13 pm
I had a lot of those symptoms. The eye floaters are really annoying. Even though it’s a small symptom, it’s one of those symptoms that can’t really be ignored. It’s really hard to distract yourself from them. I had a lot of numbness and tremors, too. It really felt like MS or Parkinson’s. how could symptoms as severe as those ever go away? They have been fading away, though. It’s a huge relief to realize that I haven’t had a tremor for a while, or sit down and not have a numb hand when I get up.
You can have tests done for the symptoms. That can sometimes provide some reassurance. SSRI withdrawal doesn’t show up on tests like the diseases do. Even the racing/irregular heartbeat from withdrawal doesn’t show up on a test.
The best way to minimize those symptoms is to taper slowly, or even pause your taper. My symptoms are much milder now that I’m just shaving off little pieces of the pills. When I was cutting big hunks off them, the symptoms were out of control sometimes.
August 13, 2013 at 11:09 pm
Hi My name is Connie, Last October I turned 50 , while I knew I wasn’t dealing well with it , It was my Doctor who decided I was depressed . I have struggled with anxiety my whole life, my old Dr. would let me have Lorazepam to help me through the worst of it, I never abused it . My current Dr. feels it is too addictive and wants me on anti depressants. On November 8th she prescribed 20 mg of Celexa . This drug made my anxiety unbearable, my complaints where met with Dr. and pharmacist telling me to wait , it would subside . I refused to take it any longer So on December 19 the Dr . started me on 20 mg of Paxil . I had success with a bad depression 8 yrs ago but had remained on it only a couple of months then on to wellbrutin for a month then quit cold turkey, This time the paxil felt different to me , the first time I could feel my mood lifting almost right away but could not orgasm. This time I could orgasm but I stopped chatting with people , I really didn’t care what people thought of me but also I didn’t seem to care about much of anything. I told my Dr. I felt it wasn’t working for me i was no happier . She increased my dosage to 30 ml. I tried for a month then decided to quit. I was in bed for 3 days so dizzy I couldn’t stand, I had brain saps constantly. I talked to the pharmacist he said I had to taper so I went to 15mgs for a couple of weeks then on to 10 mgs for a couple of weeks then 5 for a week nothing for one week then I went to Ireland on holidays. I experienced brain saps sensitivity to odours , nausea , some anxiety , some tears . The last two weeks I have this new found rage. I have always been a people pleaser , now I look for fights, and stay really angry about situations I can feel the rage just thinking about the situations again. After a big screaming match with a woman at work I returned to my Dr. who wanted me back on paxil I refused she gave me a prescription for 10 mg. of cipralex and time off work. I found this site and have spent the night reading it. I am still not happy although maybe I never was, my anxiety is so high my whole body is tense and my knotted stomach is screaming for relief. I have to decide if I should take this new drug or ride this out and hope the rage/ anger lessens.I would really appreciate some guidance
August 16, 2013 at 8:28 pm
Usually, the best way to taper off SSRIs is to go with the last one you felt relatively stale on, and slow taper off of it. In your case, you could increase your dose of Paxil and stay on it until you feel stale again. The anger is from tapering too fast. I had a lot of anger when I was tapering off 40mg/day of Paxil. It hit at about the 25mg level and lasted until I got down to about 10. I was tapering too fast then, though. After I got off Paxil, I made it about two months before I had to reinstate. This time, I’m tapering much slower. I still feel the same symptoms, but the are MUCH milder than they were before. Instead of anger that lasts two months, it’s frustration that lasts a couple hours.
It’s important to get stable before staring to taper. After taking a few different drugs, it may take a while to settle down. Don’t try to force tapers when you’re still feeling symptoms that interfere with your life. It’s better to wait a few extra weeks rather than force another taper and get two tapers worth of symptoms all at once.
I hope the anger goes away soon. That symptom is one of the most dangerous withdrawal symptoms because its the one that we’re most likely to translate into action against others. Try to be mindful when you’re acting angry. It’s better to retreat rather than have a confrontation in an agitated state. I had to hide in the back of the supermarket a couple times while I was in the anger phase.
August 18, 2013 at 3:26 pm
I wonder though if I ride it out a bit longer will the symptoms eventually go or is only when reintroducing that the drug the symptoms will stop Thank you for your insight
August 22, 2013 at 4:05 pm
It’s hard to predict how each person will react in withdrawal. It’s really frustrating because each person seems to feel differently. It can even be different for the same person the second or third time.
Usually, withdrawal takes a while to get better. I think that the brain adjusts to the lack of SSRI at about 10% every month. That’s the tapering schedule that withdrawal sites recommend. That schedule seems to match up well with recovery times.
For instance, say you quit cold turkey from 5mg per day. You could probably expect to have symptoms for about 8 months. That’s not to say that it would be terrible symptoms for that whole time, or that your individual recovery would take that long. That’s just the amount of time it would have taken to taper off 5mg using the 10% method.
I understand your reluctance to go back to the drugs. It was very hard for me to reinstate, and stick with it until I felt stable again. Recovery is possible, no matter which road you take to get there.
Withdrawal symptoms come and go. Recovery is a bit of a crooked road. Some symptoms should go away very quickly. Others will linger. Some will come and go. It’s not like a fever that you wake up from. You just realize one day that you haven’t felt unreasonable anger or anxiety for a long time. The big symptoms should dissipate relatively quickly.
August 22, 2013 at 10:20 pm
Thats great info npanth! Thankyou for your reply to my previous post too. If what you say is true, Im just over half way through anti depressant withdrawal. If I caluclate my c/t from lexapro by this, it will take me 32 months to be a normal person again. I value this information, as I have so many days, where I wonder…is this still withdrawal???!!! Thankyou.
September 5, 2013 at 12:33 am
Thank you so much for the information . I spent a week trying to tough it out , just lorazepam for anxiety . I was still too anxious .Then I decided to try 5 mg. of cipralex . I started to feel some relief and a week later I’m taking 10 mg. I really am starting to feel good again . I am not sure about the anger because I have been quite isolated for a couple of weeks. I decided against the paxil as I was too emotionally numb. I hope this new drug is the answer for now, I am going to follow your advice and once I feel strong again I will do a long and slow taper. I can’t tell you how much it means to me that you are here to help .
August 28, 2013 at 1:36 pm
“…hide in the back of the supermarket” — I know this is not funny, but it made me smile nonetheless. I came very close to slamming my cart into someone last night at Stop & Drop.
August 27, 2013 at 3:59 pm
Hello all. At the end of my rope today and then found this blog. Typing through tears because I can’t believe there are so many people going through the SAME horrors of withdrawal. I will read everything tonight and write back tomorrow if that is ok. npanth, you may have just saved my life…
August 27, 2013 at 6:12 pm
I’m glad it has comforted you. Today, I couldn’t take the uncontrolled rage, and out of desperation and sheer preservation of any speck of “sanity,” I took 10mg Lexapro again and plan to restart.
I was taken off it on July 9th in a hospital stay and put onto remeron. I found the remeron pointless, so I’ve been dealing with the full spectrum of symptoms-the physical zaps are gone-but I’m afraid I may completely blow up in rage, lose my job, hurt myself by punching a wall-well, you get the picture. Funny, I never had anger issues before Lexapro-just after coming off it.
Good luck. Sorry I hijacked your post.
August 28, 2013 at 10:42 am
No hijack at all, glad you responded.
Prozac for 20 years, then Lexapro for 1 year. One month since last pill, cold turkey. This is the 3rd or 4th attempt at getting off so I didn’t feel like weaning and I am paying the high price. Full spectrum of symptoms and grasping at sanity as well. Risk of losing job and family is very real, but I am in no mood to explain anything to them. Yes, I do get your picture, but I don’t think the outside world has a clue what we are going through.
Good luck to you, too. This really sucks.
August 29, 2013 at 9:05 am
So, I restarted the Lexapro now for the second day. The rage, which was about to cause me serious problems when I was off of Lexapro for over a month, is not as uncontrolled.
But I’m concerned because while on Lexapro, I get “chronic random thought syndrome” as I call it. It’s a constant dialogue if any thoughts. Istantly upon discontinuation of Lexapro, this problem lessened, but over time, I became angry-and I’m not a raging person.
So I’m in a dilemma. Off Lexapro-I feel calm, free, and more in control of random thinking. But I can deal with the rage-maybe it’s my “mind” having a fit because nothing in my life has really “changed” except for the brain chemicals.
September 4, 2013 at 5:06 pm
It’s very common to be a bit scatter brained while on SSRI. My theory is that the drugs supplant the normal thought filters that we use to remain focused and control our emotions. The brain has to relearn how to control attention and mood once the drug is removed. That why anger and anxiety are the most common withdrawal symptoms.
To a certain degree, you can use your conscious mind to enforce thought discipline. It’s not easy to do because it’s a constant thing. It does help, though. The biggest hurdle is to recognize that it’s happening at all. I didn’t realize that I was just saying anything that popped into my head while I was on a full load of Paxil. I must have been very difficult to deal with.
Anger is more likely to be translated into action, against others or yourself, so I would say the loss of thought cohesion is the lesser of two evils. That should diminish as our dose goes down, too.
September 3, 2013 at 2:41 am
dear npanth: I have been up for hours reading all your posts its 3:33 am here in Ontario Canada-I would like to thank you for all your wise information. I have been on anti-depressants for over 25 years-it all started because I had PMS- for some reason I never thought about stopping until now. I have been numb for 25 years!! I am experiencing withdrawals-because I did not taper off slowly. Therefore, I am a mess. I can’t sleep-I have anger-anxiety-crying spells. It was very helpful to read about the windows and waves experiences-it helps me understand the situation better. I was just wondering how long you were on Paxil and how long it took you to feel better. I started with Prozac, then Cipralex then the doctor added some Wellbutrin for a kicker (as he called it). I am just so afraid since I have been on so long that it could take years for me to be normal again.
September 3, 2013 at 10:58 am
Terri
I was on meds just under 20 years and was taken off of them basically cold turkey. That didn’t go well for me then and even now 20 months later. If I could do it all over again I would do as almost all sites recommend; a very slow taper off.
It sounds like you are not to far in to reinstate and do a very slow taper.
I am not a doctor so please take this recommendation as is. I am however a person that has endured the hell of cold turkey for a long time now.
September 4, 2013 at 6:37 am
Hi Terri,
I posted earlier, when I first found this site a few months or so ago. I stopped cold turkey in January after 15+ years of anti-depressant use, mostly Prozac. I am so much better, just in the last couple of months. I was so worried after reading these posts that it would be years also. The withdrawal was extreme and horrible for me but I have been fixing my body for 10+ months through Nutritional Response Testing and it is the only reason I have made it this far without going back on Prozac. My body was so damaged from the prescriptions, my life style and all the chemicals I was consuming in my food. I would never have had the control over my body to stay off the prescriptions without the body and brain support from real nutritional foods and supplements. Here is a link in case your interested. It saved me.. http://www.unsinc.info/nutrition-response-testing.html
So 9 months later and I am only experiencing negative waves/windows and the reoccurring thoughts for a couple days a month now. I am not happy yet, but I am not yelling, crying and screaming at anyone anymore either. You can beat it, it has taken me 9 months and I don’t wake up with that horrible, yucky feeling I used to have. It was worse then the other side effects. I can’t even explain it, it was just a mean, scary, negative feeling in my whole body. I finally started cross stitching again and I want to start painting soon but its harder to do with a 3 years old, lol. I am getting feelings back slowly, so slowly though. I have changed my life a lot , we have moved into a home without any issues, downsized the animals I had to care for and I have just been trying to lower my stress so I can handle what life throws at me better. I did email this web site to my close family also, to help them understand what I was trying to do and to ask them all to hang in there with me. I think it helped my husband understand a lot. I wish you the best of luck and hang in there. You can do it and it has only taken me 9 months after 15+ years of use, with Nutritional Response Testing supporting my brain and body as it works to repair all the damage I did to it. Best of luck to everyone!!
September 4, 2013 at 8:13 am
Hi Sylvia, I had posted earlier that I was going to go back on a low dose Zolfot ,as I was out of control– rages, no tolerance -anxiety. These , ironically were symptoms I started having ON Zoloft . My NP called it serotonin syndrome. Anyway, I decided not to go back and to increase my exercise. It is working!!! If I do not exercise for two days , IT is back. The foggy brain, the anger, the anxiety. I have eliminated food additives from my diet for years. NO colorings, flavorings, preservatives etc because I know, if I eat those, IT is back . So, my input to all trying to get off these toxic meds is EXERCISE and DIET CHANGE. Do you exercise now? Increase it. If not, do something, anything – walk, etc (make sure to check with MD (sorry) ) esp if older( I am older, so I get to say that : ) ) or heart condition,etc. It is working for me. I have exercised a lot for years and just discovered that it takes longer to get those endorphins going , which make sense. What is in your food- ? If the label has something you can’t pronounce or has more than 5 ingredients , put it back. I know “natural” food is more expensive, but our mental health is worth it. Hang in there everyone– so glad I found this site– let me know if you try exercise, diet change or both and how it works for you.
September 4, 2013 at 6:19 pm
Dear mtnwen,
Thank you for your response. I “agree” exercise “works” because for a while there, I was using it to control my withdrawal symptoms as well, I also had to treadmill about every other day for it to help, but during my Nutritional Response Testing my thyroid tested for metals so I am on supplements to remove them, which cause my thyroid to get over active when I exercise, so I am waiting for it to balance out. Yes, I did go off my thyroid prescriptions in Jan as well as Prozac. Proud to be drug free! I did want to mention how some foods, fast foods and processed foods cause me to go crazy, mimicking the withdrawal symptoms. I never realized it before I started cleaned out my mind and body of chemicals. I had sausage from Costco’s a bit ago and went crazy! So angry at the whole house for two hours, Just picking fights and being so mean, then it was gone, just that fast. It was an on and off switch, craziest thing ever. It was good though because my husband actually saw what I have been talking about for the past six months concerning the chemicals in our foods and how they affect us. With my withdrawal symptoms, I have also noticed that I HAVE to get out of the house daily, be it a trip to the store or to pick up my daughter at the bus stop. I am not sure if its the sun or the exercise or both but it really helps my mind. Exercise really did work for me also and I can’t wait to get back on the treadmill and stop this slow going housework to try to get some moving in, lol. Good luck everyone!
September 4, 2013 at 5:28 pm
I’m still taking 4.5mg per day of Paxil. I’ve been tapering for about a year and a half. I started my taper much too quickly. The symptoms were very bad. I thought that things would work out if I could just get to zero. I crashed after a couple months at zero. I had to reinstate on Paxil and start a much slower taper. Now, I get some mild symptoms for a week or so after I start a new dose, but it’s very manageable. Instead of having anger and anxiety for weeks, it lasts a few hours.
For me, the key to minimizing symptoms is to taper very slowly. I file tiny bits off the pills instead of chopping them up. Instead of dropping from 5mg to 4, I went from 5 to 4.5. My next taper will be to 4.1 (approximately). My symptoms are a little harder to deal with because I’m estimating my tapers instead of precisely measuring them. My particular brand of stubbornness, I suppose.
You might want to go back on the last drugs you were taking and do a slow taper from there. Don’t try to taper until you feel stable again. that could take a while. Taper off one drug at a time. Even dropping a small dose in two or three drugs is the same as making a big drop in one drug. Tapering slowly should minimize the severity of symptoms. It’s weird. The symptoms are the same, they’re just much milder than they are when fast tapering. It’s easier to think before acting when the symptoms are milder.
After a certain amount of time, the length of treatment doesn’t make tapering any harder or easier. The changes that the drug induces in the brain have already happened. Changing back to a drug free state will happen at a certain pace whether you’ve been on the drug for 5 years or 15. Don’t be hesitant to pause or even stop your tapering if you feel symptoms. I just took a 6 month tapering vacation at 5 mg. I was doing well, I just wanted some time off from tapering. Don’t worry about the time it takes to taper off. it’s more important to keep the withdrawal symptoms as light as possible. You’ll get there. I hope you feel better soon.
September 3, 2013 at 11:30 am
Thanks Dano. I basically went cold turkey-I stopped all meds in about 2 months. I’ve been off completely since June 13th. I just can’t handle going back and starting these withdrawals from the beginning again. I know its only been close to 3 months since I’ve stopped completely-the thought of taking that poison again makes me sick. I just can’t believe how stupid I was to take this crap so long and not stop. I did try once for about a month six years ago and went back on-I was having problems with my son and some drug problems he was having and I couldn’t cope. Everything in my life is good now-my boys are on their own-with good jobs-good girlfriends-one is getting married and I really want to get back to being me again as soon as possible. It sounds dumb-but I don’t even remember who me is? Scary. I guess I feel better this morning-hoping it lasts for awhile. I hate my doctor – I blame him for not helping me and giving me alternative methods to feel better instead of drugging me up. I know it was my responsibility too-but I trusted him. I don’t want to see him again-It may sound childish-but that’s how I feel. I am mad at him and myself.
How long have you been going through withdrawals?
September 3, 2013 at 6:45 pm
Terri
It’s been 20 months for me. Your not alone thinking your stupid for taking the meds for so long. My doctor told me there were no side affects to these drugs. Most doctors are truelly un-informed in my opinion about these meds.
What I have found is there are two distinctly different conditions in life after meds. The first and formost is the physical and mental aspects of withdrawal. I have and hopefully you won’t go through some horrible episodes.
The second is beginning to re-learn and re-live living without these meds. I have been surprised on many situations how hard living is without meds. Decisions were easy before because I never gave them a second thought. Decision now typically take longer and thought out; almost to a fault long.
I believe you asked how long this will last. I don’t think anyone can tell you that unfortunately. It’s all you and your brain healing. You have to be mentally strong about what may come your way. You have to be mentally strong and dedicated to getting better and learning who you really can be and who you really can be. Did I already say you have to be mentally strong!!
Support from your family will also be very important. Tell them what you are doing and educate them along with yourself. There is no possible way they will know what you are going through if you don’t tell them. Even if you tell them they will be skepticall at times. Have them read a few posts from other people. There is something to be said about reading someone else journey that makes this stuff more believable.
There are several very good books and several online forums that can help you through what might be headed your way. Keep positive
September 4, 2013 at 8:34 am
Thanks Dano-I really appreciate your comments-I’m trying to be positive-Going to the gym everyday and trying to keep busy!
My husband has been very understanding and has taken a lot of verbal abuse from me, which was unwarranted. Each day I will take it a step at a time. Hope things are good for you.
September 9, 2013 at 8:47 pm
This is one of the BEST sites I have found and man, you all can probably identify with the … obsessive searching for answers that we do when trying to figure out how to drive this new person … I am 46, and ended a long taper off of Cymbalta on August 26 after taking it for 5 years for chronic myofascial pain. Worked on the pain but gutted my soul. I am a mom, a wife, a lawyer, and I used to be also, a musician, and funny (or at least I thought so! 🙂 )
I painfully remembered what so many of you have gone thru with a “crash” withdrawal as I made that mistake in January; my New Years resolution was to stop taking Cymbalta for the new year, so I did the prudent 3 week taper that had always worked before … um, NOT. (you know, 2 days on skip a day and so forth for 3 weeks?). I FELL DOWN. I had incredible hateful rage towards my family, ruining the holidays I think, then had self loathing. I spiraled into a dark abyss I had NEVER seen. See, I was not prescribed Cymbalta for depression or anxiety. I took it for the reason now broadcast in homes throughout America, “that one nonnarcotic pill a day for your chronic pain, to DO something to get your life back.” HIJACKING, OMG. I was so bad by February that my hubby had taken me to a psychiatrist who wanted to throw more meds at me, and declared me “disabled.” I was taking a medical leave from work becaue I could hardly get out of bed in the morning, the “alarm clock” was SO INTENSE that soemtimes it came with dreams that I now understand as neuro fear. I never watched spooky or gory movies … but wow, all there in the dreams, they spare nothing. NOTHING.
Fast forward. In February I went, a shaking mess, to my pain doctor of over 10 years, and he said “you can NOT stop taking this medicine so fast, let’s do it slow. It may even take you a year. So what?”
I found http://www.pointofreturn.org. This is a nonprofit in CA that has a fabulous website, and yes they do sell supplements, but the MAIN thing they do is provide a program, including a book for your DOC to give a PHARMACIST to help you TAPER. And they’ll find you a pharmacist to work with. Eli LIlley did not want to give a traditional pharmacy any kind of recipe for compounding, you see, so their lowest dose is 20mg. I had started at 60, had been at 30 for the last year before the crash taper. then the CYMBALTASAGA began. Man.
Thank GOD for Point of Return. I just finished my taper.
… now I am wondering, was it too fast? I decreased my dose by 1mg per week. Each week I paid to have 7 pills in a bottle with one mg lower of a dose sent to me. Yes, this was difficult as the compounding pharmacist I used was halfway across the country from me. But Cymbalta was very tricky to taper, because the capsules contain beads that are coated with a time released substance. The pharmacist explained this does not matter, and ground the med into a powder and provided the capsules. And I did that from March till a copule weeks ago.
And I apologize for the length of this post, really! I wanted to give the information to those who may find it here, that the taper rpogram and the 800 telephone number with people willing to talk one out of a tree, and their calming voices and stories of having been there (which they all have been, this was their inspiration to start the organization).
The omega oil has one of the highest mgs of DHA on the market (good for brain). They also sell a bioavailable, concentrated, flavorless (hard to find) whey protein isolate powder to help the gut, where serotonin is produced, to heal and help with withdrawal symptoms by production of glutathione (look it up; most of the ways to actually get glutathione produced by the body are not possible as they arent bioavailable…). And there is a montmorencey (sp?) cherry tablet that helps the brain NATURALLy produce melatonin at night for sleep. As I bumped through this taper, refusing to slow it down even when suggested, I did “trial and error of life” by skipping the supplements, OOPS, skipping SOME of them, BIG OOPS, and then returning to the strict routine. It WORKS, FOLKS. NOt a miracle there is no such thing in this arena I am afraid. But it helps. The other key thing they do at Point of Return is they walk you through a computerized program to make sure you are NOT taking any medicines over the counter or prescribed, that will “interact” with your tapering med, because a lot of us can unknowingly hamper our body’s ability to regain homeostasis by taking somethign seemingly harmless. I was not allowed to take benadryl, as it is metabolized thru the same pathway in liver as cymbalta, therefore putting me in FULL ALARM MODE the next A.M. Also diet coke had been my evil and the sweetener in it DEPLETES the gut’s ability to produce serotonin and glutathione, a surprise. Went to a movie with my son and got the big popcorn coke combo and he got us Coke Zero, and I was a wreck for 2 days after. And saying, “man that was very odd but I’m a believer now.”
So, there is another tool for those of you who are interested.
I am not doing super, but I am in that wave and window phase now, and thankful. I can function to work, and to write (haha almost typo-ed writhe, that was in February…). I GAINED WEIGHT after finishing the taper, and I am VERY unhappy about that, wondering how long it will take me to regain adrenal health and brain health so the entire panoply of hormones that are dumped out of balance by all this will re-regulate. I hear the concerns of some of you out there who are saying, “OH NO, is this permanent?” I fall into the optimist camp, even on bad days, excpet for avery now and then. I am still irritable and somewhat mean at times to those I love, which they do not deserve. I am hoping every day brings a little more improvement. I’ll hang here with you guys if you will have me!
Lori
September 12, 2013 at 10:39 pm
More : So, I’ve been taking Lexapro for probably 6 years or more – not always the same dosage-not always on it but mostly, taking it.
I’ve tried, on my own in the past, to wean off it. I found that my “reality” of life didn’t change, so I felt I needed to “numb” again and just take that pull.
In a hospital stay a couple months ago, the DR asked if Lexapro was helping me. I said-I don’t know. So, he took me off it and started remeron at night and neurontin, during the day.
The neurons in made my legs restless, so he stopped it. But I left the psych ward on remeron-but off any ssri.
I dealt with it for weeks. Anger began. I became aware of the life I “hated” living. I couldn’t control my mouth-lots of swear words. I was seriously going nuts and felt insane.
In my own, now, I’ve started the Lexapro again. But, I’ve felt out of control-again. My thoughts are rambling. I don’t sleep sound. My thoughts repeat-songs go on and on, I ramble over and over.
Not in this Lexapro, I didn’t have this, but I felt no “stimulation” as I felt on the Lexapro.
Anyone see what I’m saying?
The Lexapro stimulates me. But, I’m so stirred I can’t stop my mind. But, without that stimulation I feel dead. I can’t feel good without real CHANGES in my reality.
I think the panic is from me not making concrete, lasting changes in my life. The angst is from unsettled thinking.
I need to move on, accept my parents age, become independent, ect…
I have work to do, but numbing myself doesn’t let the real work happen.
October 4, 2013 at 2:26 am
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October 17, 2013 at 2:55 pm
I’ve been off zoloft for several months. Withdrawals are done. Life is becoming increasingly difficult. I heard about Wellbutrin and have been considering finding a dr. to prescribe it. I also heard about 5-htp as a natural alternative. It’s only real side effect seems to be a possible heart-valve issue but if it works . . . Has anyone tried it?
October 17, 2013 at 9:46 pm
If your off one med why start another??? Life is not easy! There are many alternatives to meds. Yoga, meditation, arts, exercise and on and on. Give em a try, it just might help.
October 18, 2013 at 1:38 am
Hey dank and npanth and others, it’s been along time since I have been here. I had the hell of withdrawal after being 13 months antidepressant free and it got too much every day in withdrawal was torture for me finally I had to get help I couldn’t touch it out any longer my life was nothing it was no way to live at all, I came off 13 years of drugs in 2 weeks so there your answer as to why it was so bad! So help came in the form of my psychiatrist who said it wasn’t withdrawal which I still believed it was Withdraw all but I needed the help they put me on a drug called in the imipramine TCA and over last five months I’ve been gradually increasing the dose to a sustainable average dose and I now have my life back I feel emotion I can cry at the drop of a hat which is great because I never used to be able to cry when I’ve been on drugs i’m now back to my normal self I don’t feel drugs I don’t feel like I’m on anything and imipramine is recommended by Dr David Healy who is a specialist in Withdraw if you research online the drug is less like an SSRI which makes it easier to come off of so in a year or two I will start coming off so now I have bought a house with my husband I’m going to try and get pregnant my work is good and it was the best decision I ever made to get that help I will come off again I do believe in withdrawal but don’t be afraid to get something to get you through to come off slower that is my plan and I’m so pleased that I’ve done it if you aren’t on anything and you can still keep going then well done you’re amazing keep going! X
October 18, 2013 at 7:50 am
No, life isn’t easy but sometimes it feels like death would be. My husband has been through hell during all this and in the end everything is a mess. I am a strong Christian and get far more out of my faith than yoga or meditation could ever provide but even with God giving me strength to go off the meds in the first place, there feels like there’s something seriously wrong. I went to the drug store yesterday and bought a cocktail of vitamins including 5-htp to see if it would help. One thing for sure: I can’t go on with the way things are.
October 18, 2013 at 9:47 am
Kat, I am so sorry you are feeling this way. I weaned off Zoloft, for a month , after being on for 5 years. I was completely off at end of March. It has been a nightmare. RAGES- anxiety – anger– not wanting to be in my own skin. Just when I feel like I HAVE to go back on a low dose , I get better for awhile. Watching my diet ( no artificial anything , or free glutamates- which are in most everything ) and increasing exercise, and outdoor time help me. I require all of these things to help me.
Your faith sounds strong- what other avenues can you take that keep you connected to your faith and supplement it at the same time- to make it stronger.
I urge you to trust your instinct that something is wrong . I am concerned about the 5-htp – does not sound safe.
October 18, 2013 at 12:24 pm
Thank you, mtnwen. I will try the things you mentioned. I’ll also talk to the pastors at church. They run a drug/alcohol rehab program. Maybe they’ll know what’s wrong with my brain. Should have thought of it sooner. Thank you so much.
October 18, 2013 at 4:54 pm
Kay
I by no means meant to belittle or take your questions lightly. I truly understand what you mean. I am 22 months and counting and have gone thru living hell myself. I was on SSRI’s and Benzo’s for 18 yrs and came off in two weeks. It is living hell!!!
You will need to keep yourself occupied both in mind and body because this stuff is real!!
Read up on tapering. I mean calculated potentially very long tapering. This will allow you to learn new techniques along the way to learn how to live life med free.
I hate to say this but; just asking god to make it go away may not work. He works in mysterious ways. Your guided journey by him will probably take you down some very hard learned and walked paths. When you reflect back on these journeys you may see or make sense of his logic for you.
Be proactive in finding your own solutions that work for you. People will tell you that it is impossible for these meds to have done this to you. They are un-informed.
October 21, 2013 at 10:21 am
Thank you very much, Dano. I bought a bunch of vitamins this weekend (after reading up on them) and on Wednesday I begin one-on-one counselling at the church plus in the evening there’s a drug rehab group that meets at the church as well. I’m praying that between all those things, the awfulness will go away or at least become manageable. Brain doesn’t seem to be working right but I cancelled the appointment I set up with a doctor to get back on prescriptions. I’ll give it more time. My husband is being unbelievably supportive. I think I would’ve walked out on me a long time ago.
I hope your journey through hell has ended!
October 28, 2013 at 8:20 am
Ok, I have had it — I am back on an SSRI- I am going, literally, out of my mind– almost went to ER last week– Had a long (hour! ) app’t with a great NP – who actually LISTENED and HEARD. She EXPLAINED that Zoloft ( which I was on) is harder to get off of than Prozac , as Zoloft has a shorter half-life, so leaves your system faster. Also, that about 15% (that is a LOT ) of people have the discontinuation syndrome which can last 6 months. Well , for me it has been 7 months. So, I have just started Prozac. I think I am a person who needs help in my brain – I am tired of the anxiety. I backpacked 250 miles last year with NO anxiety. Now, I get anxious going to the grocery store. I am close to tears all the time. I fly into rages so extreme I am lucky no one has been hurt, or worse. I have no filter in my conversations and say the most hurtful and outrageous things to people, as I just don’t care anymore. Yes, exercise and the right food decrease these symptoms HUGELY, but I find it difficult to exercise 2-3 hours every day- which is what it takes. I am changing to her as my PCP, as the one I have just says ” oh, maybe you need to go back on pills”. Are my symptoms worse than before I ever went on Zoloft? I think they are. But , I cannot stand it anymore.
October 28, 2013 at 11:30 am
Wendy
By no means should you be upset about going back to meds. What you have gone through will arm you with information about how you reacted to coming off meds. After you stabilize and decide to come off again you will be more informed.
Up too 6 months my ass!!! I’m one of the 15% that is way past that mark and still hurting. I would be curious to here what your doc says about that.
Good luck and be very careful about Un-informed doc’s.
October 30, 2013 at 3:23 pm
Dano, Thank you for the reply. My anxiety and anger has already decreased tremendously. I really feel like myself again. My NP is very educated and LISTENS . In fact, I think she is the only medical professional I have discussed this with that knows about the discontinuation syndrome. (She did say Paxil is the worst to get off of-)
anyway- I will keep you posted
October 30, 2013 at 1:44 pm
Wendy, I’m so sorry you had to go back on but, boy, do I understand what drove you to it. I was on Zoloft too. It’s awful going off. Up to 6 months my foot! I’m way past that and hate what I’ve become. Definitely worse than before going on Zoloft. I hope Prozac works well for you and that maybe if you try going off again down the road it will be easier. I joined a group at church for people going off drugs/alcohol (not AA) and it helps. Good luck, Wendy!
October 30, 2013 at 3:34 pm
Kat, Thank you– I am feeling so much better on the Prozac. The anxiety has disappeared and the huge mood swing to anger has lessened tremendously. I am going to stay on this low dose for awhile.
I sometimes think that what set off the higher level of serotonin in my brain and symptoms of such ( which is why I went off in the first place) was that I was exercising so much. Training for a backpack trip, then hiking for a month. Then I went off it and was not exercising as much- so lower serotonin. Just a guess- will ask my NP.
I am happy to hear that the group is working for you. Keep me posted
October 28, 2013 at 8:24 am
oops- that was mtnwen replying as Wendy
October 28, 2013 at 1:55 am
[…] Phases of SSRI Withdrawal – James Heaney – WordPress.com […]
November 9, 2013 at 11:56 am
Dear Dr. Heaney, I want to thank-you for posting your blog entries on SSRI withdrawal. I believe your blog provided a safety net that saved my life. Last year I believed I had become psychotic. When I reported my “frightening thoughts” to my doctor and he just called the Sheriff to come to my house to see if I had killed myself, instead of returning my phone calls or keeping our appointments. I continue to be amazed.
Neither doctors, private substance therapists nor Michigan Mental Health Services want or believe in “SSRI withdrawal symptoms” or will treat patients with my condtion. This is a dangerous medical negligence situation and fertile ground for potential future tragedies caused by iatrogenic SSRI psychosis. This is my opinion and my personal experience.
Your blog on SSRIs helps me find a way to understand and tolerate these horrific and long-lasting symptoms. I’m now 20 months into withdrawal from an excessive/prescribed dosage of Tramadol/Ultram and the fun never ends. Now I can see a daily lessening of symptoms. It’s so important for each addict to recognize that the waking-nightmare today is of shorter duration and less intense and “actual appearing” than last week’s waking nightmare, otherwise it’s easy to lose hope. Bless your dear readers suffering from this dreadful withdrawal condition.
After 18 months, last month I began sleeping and dreaming. Before that, I could sleep for more than 2-3 hours at a time then wake in fear. I still sometimes waken depressed and then become enraged, which may be due to an excess of cortisol as theorized in this paper. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3280108/).
I’ve found it vital NOT to ever become dehydrated. Nearly everything we do dehydrates the body, but only fresh quality water restores the body balance. There may be a water balance connection thru the brain itself relative to SSRI serotonin signalling. Any other fluid dehydrates. My best and only defense against”rage seizures” seems to be for me to stay hydrated. I’ve recently started taking “Slow-Mag brand” magnesium chloride. I may be seeing some improvement.
It’s always shocking and baffling to my intellect that such extreme stress, depression, rage and utter complete and total FEAR are not caused by any external issue occurring in my world. It is a compelling illusion more overwhelming than LSD. If I “go ballistic” I call it a “rage seizure”. Most people are ashamed to talk about their rage seizures during SSRI withdrawal. Who wants the label of psychotic? The “Psychotic” label doesn’t fit. After 60 years of being “not psychotic”, I refuse to buy into the coincidence of drug withdrawal with “sudden insanity”.
My question to you centers around the hypothalamus area regulation of a factor called “Preservation of Self”. (It’s theorized that SSRI drugs may cause actual physiological damage to the hypothalamus- it’s sleep, sex, body temperature, fear/flight/fight, perceptive center of the brain.) After I started to sleep at night, (Oh Joy Oh Rapture Oh Bliss), I began having intense waking depression sometimes worsening to a “self-directed anger” state coupled with physical locking up of muscles, just like I’ve observed during a seizure or convulsion. In your experience have you seen the “recovery” from long term SSRI use manifest in this way? Could you direct me to a research source that explores the topic of hypothalamus damage as a result of SSRI drugs? I’m interested in forensic data obtained from deceased users of SSRI drugs. Of course HiPPA might not allow the release of any post autopsy information to the public. It appears that HIPPA keeps Big Pharma prescribing bad drugs during all their current wrongful death lawsuits being tried in court now. HIPPA works so well for special interests groups.
Have you or any of your readers discovered that during withdrawal from an SSRI they have a below normal body temp? I’ve been freezing all thru a hot summer. My temp seems to correspond to my irritability. 93.3 degrees F taken orally is my prize winning low temp. The thermometer was accurate, my doctor confirmed it and actually called attention to this phenomena. Not so surprising if the hypothalamus is damaged organically. Like you say, nerve tissue takes a long time to heal. May God Bless you for taking your valuable time to write these articles. They are deeply insightful and have done a great good in my life. I will pass it on. Namaste.
November 9, 2013 at 10:03 pm
This link below is a paper written on the interaction between the amygdala and the hypothalamus. It was written by a person in the UK. I have not read it myself. I don’t believe it talks about damageing of the hypothalamus though. I have actually ordered this program. I’m just waiting for it to arive. I believe in the theory and am willing to give it a try. I have now endured 21 months of hell. I; unlike you do not see daily progress. I also live in MI.
Click to access Amygdala_Retraining_JHH_Sept_2010.pdf
November 10, 2013 at 11:33 am
Thank-you Dano. Good post. Interesting info on SSRI and Amygdala. I hope you are starting to feel better now. Take care.
November 20, 2013 at 9:55 pm
Hi its Mel again. I just wanted to let you know that I recently had tests done to rule out MS after a long wave of, muscle weakness, numbness, pins and needles and brain fog. I was however wondering if anyone has had a severe reaction to antibiotics during withdrawal? I am at month 19 of Lexapro withdrawal from a 20mg cold turkey.
I was prescribed ab’s for acute sinusitis and found that once starting the antibiotics I had patches of tight bands around my left arm, which then spread to my lower legs. I have also had pins and needles and numbness (funny skin sensations around my face – mostly the left side). I have left sided weakness again and burning arms. Could this be a sensitivity/ adverse reaction or something esle?? Please help, this health anxiety is driving me nuts. I am constantly looking at what this could be. One week its MS, then Parkinsons, then a brain tumor, now some form of neuropathy. Please help!
November 21, 2013 at 12:34 pm
Mel
I never went down the road of MS testing but I can understand from what little I understand about MS. I have had MRI scans to rule out brain tumors which were negative of course.
Within 13 months I was on courses of antibiotics for chronic sinusitis. I finally had an MRI of my sinuses that showed blockages all through my sinuses as well as a severely deviated septum. I decided to have surgery to open the sinus passages and repair my septum. This all happened 4 months ago. As of today all of the pain and suffering was well worth it. The prednisone and ab’s always made me feel fuzzy and achey. Prednisone was used to reduces the sinus swelling I had to stop taking it because it made me crazy.
I have spent probably close to 50 k over the last two years on tests and procedures that showed absolutely nothing. I completely understand your frustration. Time is the only thing I have on my side. Conventional medicine tells me I’m complete healthy?????
November 22, 2013 at 7:02 pm
Hi Dano, thankyou so much for replying! I am just feeling so hopeless at the moment. I have been through 19 months of hell and have now had this severe severe reaction to the AB’s. I am now thinking how long do I have to put up with this for? Is this reaction reversible or this another thing that I will have to bear and for how long? Is there permanent never damage? My good old friend google tells me it toxic neuropathy and it could be permanent! I feel like Im in withdrawal all over again… How long did take for you to feel somewhat normal again after your ab’s? When will this nightmare end…
On the brights side I am so glad to hear that your sinuses are better – I also suffer with sinusitis and it can be so painful.
I am reluctant to go back to the doctors again, even when I told her about the reaction, she said that it doesn’t sound like a normal reaction? Well it only started a couple of days after I took the meds…hmmmm!
November 25, 2013 at 8:15 pm
Mel
I can’t say I ever had the negative reactions to AB’s as you have explained. I usually felt a bit better after a week or so. I can only but commiserate with you about living through hell for so long. It will be 2 yrs for me in two weeks. I also went essentially cold turkey. I tapered for two weeks.
There are very few things that bring me relief. One of the best things for me is rest I realize that is easier said than done though. I suffer from sever derealization and depersonalization daily. Living a productive societal life is very difficult while dealing with this crap. After two years though it is easier to tell myself it hasn’t killed me yet so just keep pushing through my days. Learning to live life drug free is more difficult than I ever imagined. Much of what I/we are going through is mental I believe.
I realize I just rambled and didn’t give you the answers you needed to hear. I am sorry for that!!! If anything just know you are not alone in your battles.
November 26, 2013 at 6:17 am
Thanks again for replying Dano, it’s nice to know there is someone out there still struggling like me. It seems we are in similar circumstances and your a little ahead of me in your withdrawal, but I totally understand where you’re at. I still get the depersonalization/derealization but in smaller bouts now, I get it 2-3 times a month now but I remember when I had it continuously and it was so frustrating and debilitating. My main symptom now is the numbness, pins and needles etc. I posted my question onto another forum and was told that the numbness, pins and needles, burning are called parasthesia and this can get overstimulated when we ingest antibiotics, vitamins etc. Its been nearly a week since I stopped the ab’s and am feeling better, so it all kinda makes sense. Some of the psychological stuff I went through was pure hell as Im sure you know, I am just hoping that our CNS will rebuild and recuperate from all this damage. You don’t hear from a lot of people after the 6-12 month mark, I think because a lot of people choose to reinstate or look for another reason for their psychological/physical symptoms – it’s nice to hear from someone who is also still battling out there. I was saying to my husband yesterday, how depressing our situations are, all of medical tests come back clear and negative and no-one can see what is going on with us from the outside. We are facing this huge battle that we have to deal with within ourselves and nobody can see it. I am sure Dano we will get there, my husband said to me last night “accept it and move on” I think that is the only thing we can do…like you said, it hasn’t killed us and if it hasn’t killed us it can only make us stronger! Hang in there Dano…have you read Recovery & Renewal by Bliss Johns? It has been my bible alongside other forums 🙂
November 30, 2013 at 5:51 pm
Hey ! Help needed ! I was put on SSRI meds when i was 15 years old for anxiety and panic attacks and have been taking them since then…now I am 24.So…9 years. Although i took them everyday, in time i have develoved extreme agoraphobia. I had quit paxil cold turkey 3 years ago but i had to take another SSRI because i was feeling too bad. I had some extreme brain zaps and crying spells.Now i have quit Luvox 2 months ago but i was taking a very small dose and had no brain zaps…i think i didnt even had a withdrawal. But now 2 months SSRI free I cant breathe…and its not that panic attack I can’t breathe type.It is in my head…i am so lightheaded and im gasping for air…i almost fall asleep.Im sure my brain lacks oxygen.Do you think it is withdrawal? i mean…when i was taking paxil i really felt a withdrawal but on luvox i was taking a very small dose and there were days when i was taking it only from time to time… What confuses me is that i didnt had brain zaps on Luvox which makes me think that im not in withdrawal.
An opinion would really help…this lack of oxygen really scares me…i open my mouth to breathe more and my brain is so dizzy..
November 30, 2013 at 6:39 pm
Mario
I’m not a doctor.
If you trully can’t breath you need professional help. Call your doc ASAP or go to the ER.
Quiting any SSRI cold turkey can be a bad bad idea. Of course your symptoms can be withdrawal but they could be more serious than that also. Can you go back to were you were two months ago and get yourself stabilized? Stopping these meds is no joke and you need to do research on how to do it in a manner that reduces your pain and agony.
I’m two damn YEARS into it and it’s still hell at times.
December 1, 2013 at 8:05 pm
Research? I’ve been doing that for 9 years. What to research more? The minimum dose for Luvox is 50mg and I was taking 10 mg once in a few days. I haven’t even felt a withdrawal from that dosage… It curious that now I have depression…I never had that…and one day I don’t have it and next day in crying my soul out and even existing is hard. Probably im gonna end up on them again…
December 17, 2013 at 7:05 am
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December 26, 2013 at 10:29 pm
I was prescribed Citalopram for moderate depression a few months back and took it for 3 days (20mg each day). I felt terrible on the medication (headaches, memory loss, couldn’t think clearly) so stopped after just three days. What has been terrifying is that these symptoms have continued – It’s now been 5 weeks since I’ve stopped taking citalopram – and I’m still having memory recall problems, and I’d say my cognitive ability varies between 60-80% of what is was previously. There was a large improvement after 1 week of ceasing medication – but since then I don’t think I’ve seen much improvement. I was curious if anyone else had known of/ or taken SSRI’s for this short a time but had this length of withdrawal? I’m hugely angry I was prescribed these after a 30 minute session with a psychiatrist – and with no warning of the withdrawal effects.
BTW – this website has cheered me up hugely – really positive informative content on here – thank you so much.
January 2, 2014 at 1:38 pm
SSRI seem to have very unique effects on people. Some people do very well on high doses. Other people can’t tolerate a short treatment. The advantage you have is that your treatment period was very short. The recovery path for short treatments usually progresses in an abrupt on/off kind of way. Symptoms come and go for a while until you wake up one morning and don’t feel them anymore. The amount of time it takes to get to that “sudden” recovery varies, but it doesn’t usually last for months.
January 1, 2014 at 4:14 pm
I’m 36 and have taken 20mg of paroxetine for 10 years (started taking it around 2003). Before that time and from around the age of 19, I started to suffer from social anxiety, general anxiety disorder and depression. I kept getting into a negative thought cycle and had a very low self esteem. I was generally very unhappy. Everyone else seemed to have everything I wanted but couldn’t have – a good job, lots of friends, a girlfriend, lots of holidays and enjoying life.
Between the age of 19 to 26, I was desperate to get a new life so I experimented with all kinds of herbal treatments and substances such as St John’s Wort, 5HTP etc. None of this ever made any difference at all.
At the age of 26, I was just so desperate I decided to go the ssri route, paroxetine specifically. I started at 20mg and have been at that same dose for the whole duration, apart from the times when I decided I would taper with the view of quitting. The ssri ‘appeared’ to work after a few weeks of starting it. I became a bit more sociable, had much less fear and anxiety and it helped the social anxiety. Side effects were very few. Ok, maybe loss of libido but I was still far off from ever getting a girlfriend anyway so this wasn’t really an issue. The drug did have the side effect of making me tired a bit more than usual, as paroxetine is quite sedating (which is partly probably why it works for anxiety). The drug appeared to lose effectiveness after around 3.5 years until finally pooping out completely after another 4 years.
As the drug is no longer effective, there is no reason for me to take it any further so I began tapering on November 4th from 20mg to 15mg, then again to 10mg on November 17th. Today I have tapered to 5mg. Yes, I am feeling lousy, however I don’t think I am experiencing withdrawal symptoms, I believe I am just going back to the way I was since 19 years old. I haven’t really felt anything but lousy anyway since the drug stopped working effectively 2.5 – 3 years ago.
I’m really scared. Paroxetine did give me some relief, however even I can see it was just masking the problems. There is really no hope for me now. I’m bored of life. I don’t have many friends and there is no chance of getting a girlfriend, especially now I am 36. I have a job that I don’t like. If all I had to do was withdraw slowly from a drug for even 3 years with a decent life at the end of it, I would happily take that option. I can’t put any blame on the ssri for the way I feel right now because I know what I am feeling is not withdrawal (although there may be a little) but rather just me going back to the way I always was. I’m a total and complete loser with nothing to look forward to and if only I could have been a different person starting back in my teens.
January 1, 2014 at 8:02 pm
Cerc, I am so glad you wrote this.I have been thinking along the same lines as you , but wondering how to express myself. You did it perfectly. I am 64, and was on Zoloft for over 5 years- there is a long story here, but I won’t go into it ( it too stopped working and I tapered off — BUT, after tapering, I became a raving lunatic, literally, RAGES, TEARS ,feeling useless. At the suggestion of my wonderful ( and new) PCP, I started prozac.
It has made all the difference in the world.My anxiety is GONE! My anger is GONE. I have come to the same conclusion. I NEED the ssri- my brain needs the ssri, like a diabetic needs insulin. A chemical imbalance in the brain is no different than a chemical imbalance in another part of your body. You are NOT a loser. You are a very perceptive and caring man. You sound overwhelmed and I can understand that. I understand looking at the “whole” picture and feeling bad about oneself. My hope for you is that you will choose one thing to change at a time. I hope you are able to find a ssri that works for you and hope that there is someone you can talk to. You are very insightful as to what you do not like about your life and about what you would like to change. I have done cognitive therapy and it has worked well for me. You are young and I KNOW there is someone out there for you, because you are honest about who you are. Take care- let me know how you are doing
January 2, 2014 at 1:50 pm
You’re tapering very quickly. Usually, it’s best to taper about 10% every 4-6 weeks. Your first taper would have been to 18mg/day instead of 15.
I also felt like I was reverting to a pre Paxil state in the middle of my taper. It wasn’t until I was further into my taper that I was able to realistically compare myself on and off the drug. The steady depression that I felt for years lifted. At the time, I thought that Paxil was the only thing keeping that steady depression from becoming chronic. It turns out that the drug was causing the depression. Tapering isn’t a panacea, there are still some underlying issues that need to be addressed. Still, when an SSRI poops out, it can make those problems worse rather than helping.
January 2, 2014 at 2:20 pm
I was on Zoloft for 10 years. It took me 3 tries to get off and it was awful. The last time, I vacillated between going back on for the sake of my marriage and sanity or end the pain once and for all. At my lowest point, my church announced that they were starting a program called Countdown To Your Breakthrough which was a biblically-based 12-week group for people dealing with addictions. I had tried everything including vitamins and AA/Al-Anon to help me through the awful mood swings, black rages and feelings of absolute worthlessness and hopelessness. Halfway through the Countdown program something clicked and now it has been over 1 month since I have had any of those awful feelings or suicidal thoughts. This is the longest period in years (including when Zoloft seemed to stop helping) that I’m actually at peace, in control and filled with hope for the future.
I encourage you to see if there is a similar program near you. I know that we’re not dealing with an addiction per se but serotonin inhibitors are mind altering drugs. Being able to talk about what was happening to me with people who have been through withdrawals and trying to get control of their lives without meds/drugs/alcohol really helped. I never left a meeting without feeling blessed and strong enough to get through the next week. Although I know it doesn’t feel like it at the moment, freedom and joy are possible. Don’t give up!
January 12, 2014 at 4:15 pm
Hi James
Just wanted to say thankyou for all the feedback and information which you have provided re SSRI withdrawal. Your websites have been a life-saver for me and you deserve a medal!! Whenever I feel like I can’t take this withdrawal any more (in my 7th month) I read the comments from other sufferers and think “I can get through this”
Thankyou James!!!
January 13, 2014 at 12:17 am
Hey ! Im 24 years old and took 9 years of SSRIs for panic attacks and agoraphobia. I have quit them VERY slowly over a few months.The brain zaps stopped after 3 weeks. Now i am 4 months free. But i have major depression.I NEVER HAD THAT WHEN I STARTED SSRIs. Could it still be withdrawal after so many months? I also have some other health problems and i cant get rid of them and i dont know if its that thats causing me depression or its still the withdrawal(but its hard to believe it could be after so many months). Im very sad and cry almost daily but then i wake up and feel a little bit optimistic like “i’ll get over this its no big deal” and boom the next day it hits me again and its so hard that i almost need to be in hospital…its like my soul is breaking…even existing is hard. What do you guys think ? still withdrawal ? or is it depression and i need the meds again ? its hard to differentiate between the withdrawal and an actual depression.But i never had depression when i was put on ssri…
Thanks
January 16, 2014 at 7:12 pm
Sergiu
Absolutely it can still be withdrawl. As much as you may want this to go away quickly it may take some extra time. 9 years is long enough to have had this medicine change the way your mind and body works. The sooner you realize that this could take more time than you would like the better off you will be. Please don’t think by stopping the meds your problems will just magically go away. You now have at least 9 years of life on meds to fix. You must change your lifestyle and though processes. Living without meds is not easy by any means. Don’t be so hard on yourself.
You mentioned a long time tapering. Tappering should be based on how you feel not on what you think you want!!! I was on medicine for 18 years. I have been off all meds for 2 years and 1 month. I struggle daily and some times all day every day for months on end. Many people have successfully stopped meds but it does takes time to re-learn how to live without meds.
January 16, 2014 at 9:13 pm
Agree. Except the last part…I think the brain needs to re-learn how to live without meds by re-adjusting itself, not us…
Im not thinking like you said, that stopping the meds will make my problems magically go away.I still have agoraphobia and etc but at least im clean.
Yeah i took the 9 years but that doest mean I will have 9 years of feeling like shit. At some point while on the drug the brain probably fully ‘adjusted’ to the presence of the drug so I wouldn’t worry much about 9 years being worse than 5 basically.
January 17, 2014 at 6:13 am
Sergiu
Please don’t take my words the wrong way. If it takes the time that a person was on meds to recover; I’ve got another 16yrs of feeling like crap to go. I am just trying to relate the two years I have med free and the thoughts and ideas I have made. These meds affect people in many ways and different time frames. Because doctors are totally clueless about this issue it takes a person longer to figure it out on our own.
February 10, 2019 at 6:01 pm
You are experiencing the Windows and waves patterns of stabilization. See survivingantidepressants.org
January 16, 2014 at 8:26 pm
It’s been a while since I posted and wanted to check in. I guess I’m looking for some reassurance…like a lot of people are. I started my SSRI/SNRI journey almost 10 years ago now. My first attempts at finding something that worked were pretty complicated and after six months I found Effexor. It got me through my divorce without killing anyone (lawyers, myself or ex-). After the brunt of the divorce was over, about 18 months, I decided to quit the med. Woowee! That was a journey but with a solid taper plan it took ~9 months to get off. The next ~6 months were a little weird but nothing super bad and I was (in retrospect) in great shape. Moving forward to 4-5 years ago I decided “those meds sure helped me focus, my anger was nil and I was rarely anxious, lets try them again”. I “played” with them off and on up to 9 months ago. I never was able to get on anything for any length of time however. Tried Effexor, Zoloft, Prozac and others. I was either really depressed or angry or anxious trying to get back on them. Finally said screw it. Little did I know I was under the spell. At least I think that’s where I am now. And that’s my question. After never really getting to a therapeutic mode could I be going through the SSRI withdrawal hell? At first I had nasty nasty adrenaline. Lasted around the clock and initially I took Ambien so I could sleep. Wanting to be truly off all meds I eventually got off Ambien and eventually got back to a decent sleep pattern. I get around 6 hours now whereas I used to get 8-9. Doc says it’s because I’m getting old (50). So the adrenaline seems to have calmed to a dull roar after 8 months off all meds and now I have days where I feel worthless. Not motivated. Despair. Have odd sensitivities to things like old music. I hate the short days (SAD? never had that before). Thinking about the future gives me the creeps. Too much thought about, death, and just on and on. I have occasional decent periods but no real windows. Am I going through the withdrawal?
February 11, 2014 at 10:27 pm
I just went off Cipralex SSRI after researching and realizing that it is an extremely dangerous drug forced down our throats by big pharma and the physicians that are paid commission to sell it. What a disheartening disaster. I am getting brain zaps and feel terrible overall but I’m so happy to finally be on the path to healing after having my personal health subverted to the greed of physicians and pharmaceutical companies. They have no clue what they are doing with these chemicals and they do more damage than good. I will be eating a Vegan diet full of vitamins, and will never use drugs to “cure” a chronic problem again. Physicians have no clue or simply dont want you to know that the body is the key to healing chronic problems you just need to feed it and take care of it. No more insane chemicals ruining my brain, liver, and everything else.
February 20, 2014 at 12:46 pm
Hi All
First of all – James – thank you so much for such a concise description of what it feels like to be withdrawing from these meds – I have shared it with my boyfriend and he feels like he can understand what is happening to me much better now. I had a brief 8 month stint with benzo’s three years ago and successfully tapered off of them after realizing they were the cause of all the troubles I was experiencing. It was truly the most difficult thing I have ever done in my life. That said – once I was full recovered it felt like I couldn’t really remember what the withdrawal felt like. It truly is like you are in a different reality as you have pointed out.
Last May I started to wean from the 100 mg of Zoloft I have been on for 15 years. The first 6 months went smoothly and I tapered to 50mg. Then when I started to taper further – i started to struggle with a lot of physical symptoms. I reinstated at 50mg and decided to hold for the winter months and give my brain a rest. That said – my withdrawal seems to be slightly protracted because I have been having a really rough time the past 2 months or so even though it has been 4 months since I last reduced my dose.
I have a question for people around brain zaps and seizures. Does anyone else experience the brain zaps when they are in certain locations? Mine seem to happen when I am in the bathroom in front of a mirror or in my kitchen. Also – does anyone find that the brain zaps are accompanied by a strong feeling of what I would describe as deja-vu? LIke you are remembering a dream or something that happened in the past really vividly? Then afterwards I cannot recall what it was that I was thinking about so vividly. I also seem to be able to “feel” a zap coming on and can stop it if i concentrate – anyone else experience this? I like to try to stop them because when I have one I almost always feel very disoriented and tired afterwards.
One last question – I think I have been experiencing seizure like symptoms for years from these meds – I will wake up in the night shaking and sort of paralyzed then it passes. This happened to me when I was awake the other night and lasted much longer – about 20 seconds or so. Often the only thing I can do when this happens is moan. Anyone else have this?
I suffered two concussions in the past year and want to make sure this is not concussion related and rather med related. Thanks for sharing your experiences everyone – it helps so much to know I am not along and not going crazy – and I can say I came out the other side of benzo withdrawal happy and healthy and hope the same for this withdrawal and all of yours.
Kelly
February 21, 2014 at 6:15 pm
A quick question; is there any natural ingredient/supplement that has been used to help aid in the brain’s natural healing of the withdrawal? Has anyone found something particular that seems to have helped them through withdrawing?
February 23, 2014 at 8:59 am
Kelly / Amy:
Unfortunately this blog seems to be less active over the last six months. Responses to questions used to come very quickly but not so much any more. Don’t let this discourage you though. There are sites out there that are active that are full of good information. One of the best that I have found to be very helpfull is
http://www.survivingantidepressants.org
There are many discussions that are exactly about what you are asking. Omega3 fish oils are very well documented to help cognitive functions and anti inflamatories Magnesium is also talked about for reducing anxiety and stress.
Just remember that you are not alone in your quest and journey becoming drug free. Unfortunately there are millions of us suffering like you are. There is not a pill to make withdrawals go away. It is very difficult and down right terrifying at times going threw this. Time is your best friend on this journey. Let your family read the information you find as well it might help them understand. Research the web relentlessly to find things that help you. Some of what you will find will scare the hell out of you as well. Don’t listen to other people that are telling you this method or pill will cure you. You are the only one that can make this happen. Doctors are typically totally and criminally under informed and just flat out wrong and will give you no or mis information. Good luck and stay strong!
May 5, 2014 at 1:35 pm
Just wanted to ask a quick question to everyone. I’m 11 months in withdrawal and I still get brain zaps, bad dreams, anxiety and really tightness in my chest. Anyone this far into the process having any of the same issues? Thanks all.
May 5, 2014 at 7:35 pm
Dandy
Absolutely tight chest and brain zaps can be symptoms 11 months out. It happened to me for sure. I actually had a stress echo of my heart because I thought I was having heart attacks. Of course everything was normal. It takes a lot of time to recover!!! I still get tight chested at times and I’m 29 months off. Everyone is different though. Hang in there. Check out http://www.survivingantidepressants.com
May 6, 2014 at 5:52 am
Hi Dandy (and for your reply, Dano),
I’m so glad you asked this question. I’ve been off Zoloft for over a year. The anxiety and chest pains are awful. It even wakes me up in the night. I’ve been thinking I was gearing up for a heart attack. I’m a freelance social media analyst (which means no health insurance) and I’ve been so sure I’m going to wind up in a hospital, I’ve been looking for work that offers benefits. I have an interview this morning for a job I don’t want. After all this time, it never occurred to me that this could be Zoloft related.
Bless you. Stay strong. We can all get through this.
Kat
May 13, 2014 at 7:58 am
Hi Emma, not sure if you still are on here, its been nearly a year since I last went on here, I just wanted to see how you were doing?
May 13, 2014 at 8:21 am
Omg!!! Hi sinead , how are you? I’m fine and well, working hard and trying for kids, bought our first house! It was almost exactly a year ago that after one year on no drugs I came pretty close to a total breakdown. My psychiatrist who belived in withdrawral and totally supported me trying being on nothing, put me on imipramine , a very old trycycilics drug with 50 years of history behind it, so I take that and finally I am all good, i can cry a lot which is brilliant as my biggest problem with being on anti depressants was that I couldn’t cry, and I have no side effects, I am positive I will never take an ssri again in my life and I am looking forward to coming off imipramine sometime as it is recommended by doctor David Healy ( a specialist in withdrawal ) to use to help come off all other anti depressants as it effects serotonin a lot less. All is good I am lucky and blessed, I have no anxiety at all but have some very teary days but I always know what triggers it like hormones, eating bad food and stress from work. I have learnt not to freak out if I feel rubbish but it is hardly very often and I can totally function. The drug is the safest drug for pregnancy and I hope that when I do have a baby it might be something that changes my emotional balance, my shrink thinks it will probably be my cure! Who knows? But compared to where I was a year ago I am blessed! I can cry just thinking about how unwell i was, how are you, are you still off everything, dano how are you? X
May 13, 2014 at 7:56 pm
Emma:
It’s good to hear you are doing well. Actually that’s totally awesome. It’s always very hard to read posts of people in pain knowing you can’t do a damn thing about it but reply in a positive way.
I am now at 29 months med free. It’s been one hell of a ride to say the least. I am still alive which I never thought was possible to be honest. Both my kids are doing well and growing up fast. I’m still married and my 22nd year anniversary is this Friday. I am still working at my dream job.
I’m not gonna lie; I still struggle everyday. I can say I am way better than I was in the beginning. Someone who says in jest living through hell is no fun means nothing to someone who has actually lived through hell from stopping basically cold turkey after 18 yrs on these meds. It’s still no fun but it’s way way better that’s for sure.
It’s great to here your doing well. Good luck with the baby making!!! Kids are worth it for sure.
May 14, 2014 at 2:26 am
hey emma, so good to hear from you 🙂 I can’t believe its been nearly a year since I was on this site, I was made redundant from my Job after 12 years last June and I took 6 months off so wasn’t really online that much, it was a great 6 months, no stress, I started a new job in January, its going well, very different to what I did before. I am still taking the Effexor but I am on the lowest dose and counting beads at the moment, its a very slow process but I don’t want to rush into it like I did the last time and had withdrawal hell, I still have off days and I am no where near 100% but I am doing a lot better, I went to a doctor in January and got a load of tests done and I am suffering from adrenal fatigue so I am on some tablets for that, will hopefully help me, I am 38 in august, still no kids as yet but just wanted to give myself some time to heal, 38 is still young so hopefully this will be the year 🙂
Its great to hear you are doing so well, Its always good to look back at the hard/bad times to appreciate how far we have come x
July 24, 2014 at 10:38 am
Hello, I am desperately seeking advice. I am at a total loss and in constant fear daily. To start, at 1 month postpartum I stopped breast feeding I had a horrible mental breakdown and went into a nonstop panic state. My husband I sought counsil and I was placed on Sarafem. This turned me into a complete manic crazy basket case to say the least. I had an adverse reaction to the medication but was told to hold out and the side effects would lesson. I was in complete Hell for 3 weeks straight, I started taking Seroquel to give me sleep which I lacked those 3 weeks. Once at 100 mg of Seroquel, I finally snapped out of it and became normal again. I was changed to fluexoetine which is basically the same thing as Sarafem. I had every side effect from the fluexotine unfortunately but decided it was a small price to pay. I am extremely sensitive to medication. I am also an EMT and had NO previous mental health issues prior to this episode. Once stable I remained on the Serouel for 1 month then tapered myself off no problem for a few weeks. I remained on the fluexotine for 8 months, intermittently taking .25mg of xanax off and on for sleep assistance when needed. I was great those whole 8 months, very happy. My PCP, husband and I decided it would be safe to start to taper off of the 20mg Fluexotine. I did this over 3 or 4 weeks without any issues, again still using .25mg xanax off and on for sleep assistance when needed. Every thing was great for a few weeks after I stopped the med. I stopped the xanax as welll. A couple of weeks later I snapped. Complete anxiety, mood swings, blurry vision, flashing lights in my eyes, deperersonalization, derealization, burning skin, terror, fear, stress intolerance, tinnitus, racing thoughts, irrational fears, ruminating words and songs, cognitive difficulties, soul crushing depression and more. It was been close to 4 months since I discontinued the flueoxtine and I don’t know how I have survived this far. I am in severe withdrawal. Theses symptoms do ebb and flow a bit. I have had slight improvement in some things like cog fog, dp/dr. I had a 3 week period 2 weeks ago that was great, my mental sx’s had all but left. Then I worked out and awoke that same night tripping out and have been back in Hell since. I struggle to get through and fight my mind moment to moment. I have had a few days before that were more manageable but the exercise obviously set me back. I have lost 20 pounds in 2 months and I feel exhausted fighting every day. I have my beautiful children to care for and am so desperate for help. I have read a lot but get overwhelmed and reading is difficult. I cant tell if I am in benzo withdrawal or SSRI withdrawal, as the withdrawal effects are so similar I fear trying to reinstate at close to 4 months off for fear of a paradoxical reaction or worsening of symptoms which would completely put me over the edge. I do not know what to do. If I should just continue to push through in hopes of some relief in the few months to come or to try another med. I am so sensitive to everything and fear having my family ripped away from me if I worsen from trying a new med. Can somebody please off any insight? Does the acute severe withdrawal like this last for much longer? I can push forward if I know some of this will lesson. I beg and cry and pray to God daily to give me my life back. Thank you so much
July 24, 2014 at 10:56 am
SS1
This site is not really monitored actively by people that can give you real answers. It sounds as though you are in the acute stage of this hell. It will get better PLEASE GO To http://www.survivingantidepresants.org
This site is monitored closely by people that really can help with your questions. Hang in there; life gets better.
April 25, 2015 at 8:22 am
I hear you 😦 how are u today?
Im about 21 months off ssri. Ive been in ur stage i never went back to the med i went thru hell. It took a while until the most intense symtoms gave in. The worst period i had in month 4-6 off ssri then it started to came in waves and windows. Iam so much bwtter today i cam work funtion and its not gonna last forever.
July 24, 2014 at 10:59 am
Will do, thank you!
September 2, 2014 at 1:24 am
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If you ever want to take some of the load off, I’d love to write some
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Please shoot me an email if interested. Cheers!
February 18, 2015 at 12:26 pm
After 16 months of withdrawal, sensitive to all kind of psychiatric meds.what to do.desperately want to try meds.not only paxil, all SSRI make me horribly depressed.without them, I am not stable with all kind of withdrawal symptoms.not able to tolerate tinniest doses if try to reinstate paxil.horrible ocd in wdal.not able to tolerate mood stabilizer even.
February 19, 2015 at 6:48 pm
Hi Kasper
Try this site: Paxil Progress was a good one but it has shut down. A lot of its members have moved to this site: http://survivingantidepressants.org/
You will learn many tips from others who have experienced and are in the midst of experiencing what you are…..
Good luck 🙂
April 14, 2015 at 8:07 am
[…] this link in my search, https://npanth.wordpress.com/2012/03/14/phases-of-ssri-withdrawal/ makes a lot of sense and makes me feel better as to why reason doesnt seem to work at the moment. I […]
May 30, 2015 at 5:41 pm
Very interesting article and comments- I hope to give you all some hope by telling you of my experiences but firstly can I say withdrawing from SSRI’s is horrible sweats,zaps “nutting out” flu like symptoms and serious allergic reactions! – it annoys me so very much when people call it discontinuation syndrome – imagine if we tried calling it that for people coming of non pharm drugs like Herion and such. However I digress – I just wanted to share with you all what fixed me. As stated above 90% of serotonin is in the GUT – fix the gut fix the depression. I found OMX probiotics have changed my life whilst not cheap ( attached website is cheapest I’ve found) return2health.net. OMX has enabled me to come off Zoloft and I no longer suffer from depression after many many years. I still have anxiety ( although circumstance plays a huge part in this) but without the underlying depression it is manageable. I would urge anyone to try this product- it’s so good to feel normal again after such a long time !! 🙂 They write some very interesting articals about genetics and how they affect your abilities to process different vitamins and minerals too.
I wish you all the best health
June 4, 2015 at 10:33 am
Hi I have a guestion.
I took escitalopram all together for a couple of months, not more than 5 months I think . I stopped taking them 2 and a half months ago. But I still have the feeling my serotonin is elevated, I still feel like I’m on an ssri. I have read this can be because chronic SSRI use causes a downregulation of reuptake pumps. So even after stopping your serotonin is still elevated. Is this permanent? I’m scared I damaged my brain and I will feel like I’m on an ssri forever.
Does somebody has the same experience?
June 18, 2015 at 3:31 pm
James – Thank you for this article. Very informative. I am 4 years into recovery from over 12 years of consistent SSRI/SNRI use. Question for you – I’m having to take Testosterone injections to help with low T levels and associated extreme fatigue. It is the only “drug” (hormone) I take now. Do you think that getting hormone replacement like this interferes with the brain’s work in achieving homeostasis again?
July 22, 2015 at 8:34 pm
I need to know some good supplements to take during wd – any advice? I am also not opposed to medication – just want off the Paxil – it’s causing liver damage
October 26, 2015 at 12:30 pm
is anyone there especially Mel!!!
November 30, 2015 at 3:07 pm
I was on Cipralex for 3 years for anxiety and depression. I quit almost 4 months ago now and I am finally starting to feel like myself again. The first 6 weeks were absolute hell. Major depression, uncontrollable crying, brain zaps, insomnia… and all the other bad symptoms. My anger was so out of control I thought I needed anger management. After 2 months I started MAJOR anxiety and panic attacks. Repetitive thoughts were making me think I was losing my mind. Wasn’t sure about anything in my life anymore. What was I doing in this house I bought. What am I doing at this job. I wasn’t sure of anything. About a week ago my anxiety has lifted and I think I am in a window! I can feel the anxiety lingering in the back of my chest… but I don’t want to let it come back. I’m finally starting to look at life in a positive light and am hopeful for the future. I need this window to last. SSRI withdrawals is no good. The worse is wondering if you’re like this because you actually have a problem and you need the drugs. I contemplated going back on the drug so many times, but my partner keeps telling me not to do it. It has been a major strain on my relationship… I’m surprised and thankful my partner is still here. I’m starting cognitive therapy to try and help me get through this. I truly believe if I can get through this… I have won the lottery!
My advice is to find tools to help you through the madness. Find a friend and tell them your repetitive thoughts and ask them if you’re over-reacting, or if it is a valid worry. Find a hobby to help you completely focus. For me riding horses is the ONLY thing that makes me focus without thinking of anything else in my life.
January 5, 2016 at 12:22 pm
I would like some advice on withdrawal please. I was on 20 mg prozac for about 5 years and 3 years ago I came off, after a 3 month taper. I started to get a serious ringing in my ears and severe insomnia and then I had a year of anxiety, terrible insomnia and intense anger which got worse and worse. The doctor said that I was obviously depressed and advised me to go back on the prozac, which after a year I did, starting with 40mg as the symptoms were so bad. A year later, one year ago, I lowered the dose and started suffering drowsyness and fatigue which lasted 5 months. Then in September I started suffering from the drowsiness and fatigue again and the doctor eventually told me that I needed to come off the prozac as it wasn’t working for me any more. That was about 3 weeks ago. I had a week tapering and then started sertraline. Since then the drowsiness has got worse, accompanied by really bad tinnitus. My query is about the year I had with anxiety, anger and insomnia. Could that have been withdrawal from the prozac? It didn’t get any better over the year – if anything it gradually got worse and worse. At the time I suspected that it was withdrawal as every so often my face would go numb, which was one of my symptoms when I first came off prozac but the doctor said that the symptoms had gone on far too long and I was just depressed/anxious again. (I had suffered form anxiety for a couple of years previously, which had led to CFS, which was why I had gone on the prozac to begin with.) Could that year have been withdrawal? In which case what do I do now? I can’t go back on prozac as it had started to have a bad effect on me. I’m a bit despairing at the moment – I have recently had to put my PhD on hold because the drowsiness got so bad and I’m dreading the withdrawal if it’s going be as bad as last time.
January 5, 2016 at 7:04 pm
Sarah
This blog is not monitored anymore by people that can help you in your questions. A very well monitored web site that can help you is as follows. Good luck in your journey.
http://www.survivingantidepresants.org
January 27, 2016 at 3:22 pm
Brilliant and informative! Currently experiencing abrupt antidepressant withdrawal (medical reason) the information by James is a well needed lifeline.
Thank you so much.
February 21, 2016 at 1:01 pm
Hi there! thank you for your very helpful articles! I feel completely understood 😉 Specially the part where you say that all the emotions, anxiety, paranoia etc. feel so infinite and horrible, unpredictable and everything at the same time. I tapered my dosage of Cipralex carefully- but still a little faster than the 10% rule… maybe i would feel better if I had done so but for almost 3 months I am in living hell now- every day varies from extreme anxiety to depression to headaches and brain fog ans so on and so forth. It is the absolute worst I have ever been through my whole live- the troubles why I started Cipralex where NOTHING compared to this! And now that I already know so much about the effects they have in your brain that I feel totally stuck. Logically I want to go back to feeling good immediatly- but if Ingo back on the pills, my brain gets more and more interrupted and I really want to have my original brain back:)))) I am handling my days only with tons of help from my family, otherwise I’d be back on meds for sure. I cut back work, I simply can’t get myself to training anymore and hardly go anywhere. Some days I am just crying the whole day, some days I sweat and shiver, get panic attacks…. it is truly living hell!!! Anybody who is going through such difficult times is a hero in my eyes!! I have huge respect for everyone who is surviving this time and I sincerely hope that all the patience that you have to have for yourself will be rewarded some time (rather sooner than later;)) Reading articles like yours help a lot!! thank you!
March 2, 2016 at 4:35 pm
I have taper paxil 30mg for allmost 6month and i have had very bad anxiety and irritation. But when i thought I have beaten the withdrawl I began to have dry mouth and felt like I have a lump in my throut. The problem started when I had been on 5mg for 2 week. Had no problem to go down to 5mg. Why do i get this symptom when i dont have problem the first 2 week on 5mg.
March 2, 2016 at 5:35 pm
Go to survivingantidepresants.org to get answers. This blog is not monitored any longer.
March 21, 2016 at 1:56 pm
I’m curious to know what you think about my situation. My GP gave me Celexa for mild anxiety, I took it 2 days and it made me very sick. She switched me to Paxil and I took it for 6 days. It took 6 days, but it too made me very sick. I then saw a psychiatrist hoping he would tell me it was best to go the natural route and he was sure I needed Zoloft. I took it 11 days (12.5 mg for 5 days, 25 mg for 5 days and 36.5 mg for 1 day) and it sent me down the path of unwanted and suicidal thoughts…which I have never experienced before. Psychiatrist had me stop cold turkey and the thoughts and my anxiety worsened. It’s been 3 weeks and my anxiety is much better, but the unwanted thoughts race through my head and my emotions are all over the place. I’ve never had issues with anything like this before, so I know it’s got to be chemical and I’m just going to have to wait it out. Dr. says I should be back to normal by week 4. I am struggling to see that and I’m worried I’ve messed myself up for good. I’m thinking I could have been just fine without any medication. Obviously my body does not like SSRIs. What are your predictions/thoughts?
March 21, 2016 at 4:44 pm
This blog is no longer monitored. Please go to survivingantidepresants.org and post your question there. They are qualified to help. My opinion is to stay away from SSRI’s or Benzodiazapines if at all possible. Go natural there are many ways and techniques. Please read and read and read and educate yourself.
March 25, 2016 at 1:39 am
Is it possible to suffer extreme anxiety , severe insomnia and depression 8 months after ceasing ssris I’m having severe problems
March 25, 2016 at 8:38 am
Sue – Yes, it is very possible. I’ve been on and off antidepressants for years. This last time, weaning off Zoloft, I was depressed, had insomnia, and anxiety very badly…even at 8 months I was still having symptoms. This is what always made me go back on them, because I thought maybe I was still depressed! But, just kept thinking that it was withdrawal. Today, more than a year later, I’m feeling better and can sleep at night. These are very dangerous drugs, I believe. I’ll never take them again.
April 14, 2016 at 3:04 pm
I have read lot of horrible stories of withdrawal and most of them really makes me feel appalling.I request every zoloft taker and those who are about to withdraw,Please adopt alternate therapies like by consulting psychologist like CBT,CAT and all.You guys can adopt yoga and meditation in your regular schedule as it has lots of benefits on mind as per many studies and researches I’ve read on internet.Medicines aren’t the only treatment of depression,anxiety,ocd sort of diseases.
I’ve been on zoloft for 8 months and now off 1 month.Most of the withdrawal symptoms are gone but I’m having severe insomnia from past 10 days.I consulted by dr. and he said to start the meds again but I won’t take it because anyway I’ve to stop these medicine after sometime and withdrawal symptoms may get inensified if i take it for a long time.So,now I’m gonna take sleeping pills for some days and will start some alternate treatments like naturopathy and others but wont switch back to meds again its my biggest mistake to start these meds.
April 23, 2016 at 7:07 pm
I desperately need help. I have been taking citalopram for 14 yrs — the doctors here in new zealand did not monitor me. I stopped them in feb bec there were too many adverse effects & it really was not helping. I have been consumed by uncontrollable anger towards everyone including my children. Who can HELP ME.
April 23, 2016 at 8:26 pm
Hi. This blog is not monitored any more. Too bad. It was great. A very good site, however, is survivingantidepressants.org You will be able to get good information and help there. My son incurred serious brain changes from long term SSRI use, and he, too, was not monitored. After ten years, he realized the drugs were the problem, not the cure, and he got on a learning curve regarding their use and their damaging effects. He got off the drugs four years ago, and has been suffering horribly since then. His physical symptoms are awful, and the struggle is made worse by the fact that most doctore do not understand or believe the damage these drugs do, and all they offer is more drugs. Some doctors are starting to come around, and you need to find one of those, someone who will understand and help you get to and through a healing process that does not involve drugs. I believe my son is on the right path, he has his good days and his horrible days, but I do see him getting better. Believe that you will get better, no matter how dark things get. Find an enlightened doctor or therapist. You will get through this.
April 24, 2016 at 3:47 am
Hi
This happened to me too! The rage was dreadful, followed by buckets of tears. For me this part of WD lasted around three weeks. I did take diazepam sporadically to help me through the really angry moments. Let your family know, the anger is part and parcel of citalopram withdrawal. It will pass and will soon be a distant unpleasant memory ♥
Wishing you better
God bless
May 23, 2016 at 9:40 am
Delna,
Never turn from prayer. When all else fails ask God to help you. You might need to take a sabbatical from your family. It’s better to take a break, and take care of your self then to hurt the one’s you love. ASk Jesus to help you though this. I’ve been on SSRIs for about 8 years and after only not taking them for a few days I am experience rage in my dreams and my family notices whenever I don’t take them. And I normally am a really nice person… I know your situation is different since your stopped taking them but never turn from the power of prayer. You will be okay!
May 24, 2016 at 12:51 pm
[…] just say I won’t be attempting to wean off paxil without the help of a professional. Here is a link for more explanation if you’re […]
July 25, 2016 at 2:20 pm
I am 6 weeks off of effexor after 21 YEARS of being on and off antidepressants. While on it, I no longer felt a part of my family and started experiencing extreme irritation and sensitivity to sound and touch. I was the worst mom ever, too, yelling at my kids all the time or sleeping. Tapered from 75 MG to 37.5 MG and then stopped. Although my primary care physician supported me, I hadn’t had a psychiatrist in years due to them not caring about me and instead being prescription happy. In the past, I have tried to off antidepressants but failed time and time again. This time I researched beforehand and read many blogs and articles. Although I am still experiencing major mood swings and crying bouts multiple times a day, the dizziness is almost gone. The Mind Cure, a book by Julia Ross helped a lot as I am taking vitamins and amino acids daily. I truly feel this has helped. I am scared that I will be sad and fatigued forever, yet hopeful it will all end at the same time. God bless each and every one of you for trying to go off your meds.
September 12, 2016 at 3:00 pm
I’m almost 7 months off of Lexapro after being on 10 mg for 15 years. I seem to have way more physical withdrawal symptoms than emotional. I feel like I’m stuck in this fibromyalgia state. Painful muscles and joints, severe fatigue, insomnia, brain fog, skin burning sensation. Did anyone going through withdrawal feel more physical symptoms? I’m worried I’m going to be stuck like this!
September 12, 2016 at 3:21 pm
By the way, don’t take sleeping tablets. I did for a few weeks and I’m sure I made my withdrawal worse. I think my symptoms were starting to fade and I made them bad again using, and then withdrawing from, zopiclone.
September 12, 2016 at 3:27 pm
I replied to you before but I don’t know if it posted so please excuse this if it’s a repeat. I just wanted to say that I’m going through the same. I stopped Prozac nearly 6 months ago. It’s actually a relief to read your post because I thought I was the only one with those symptoms. Emotionally I’m fine but physically I’m a wreck. I think I made them worse by using zopiclone to sleep so don’t use sleepers. All the best. It will end.
January 19, 2017 at 11:50 pm
Hi SarahJoy,
Sorry I’m just now seeing your post. How are you feeling now? Have you seen any improvements since Sept?
February 8, 2017 at 9:00 am
Hi Mandy. Thank you for your reply. Unfortunately I’m still feeling terrible with withdrawal – it did improve for a few weeks but then it came back. It’s not quite so bad now but still pretty debilitating. I’m hoping this is the ‘wave’ phase and won’t last as long as the last one, but I can see that it might well be over a year before I am well again. It’s such a drag – if I had known I would have put up with the original mental health disorder.
How are things going for you?
SarahJoy
February 8, 2017 at 5:42 pm
Ugh I know! I’m sure none of us would have taken these drugs if we knew we were going to go through this hell. I’m glad you have seen some improvements though! That means you will most likely have another window soon. I haven’t had a window yet where I have no symptoms. I always have at least 7 symptoms going on at once but some days are worse than others. I don’t have any emotional symptoms left. No depression, anxiety, irrational fear, etc. That’s all gone thank god! I have all the same symptoms I had when I first posted last Sept, except the insomnia has gotten way better. Everything else I still have. I also have sensitivity to light and some blurry vision. I’m 11 months med free now. What are some of your symptoms that you have? Feel free to find me on FB too and we can chat.
February 9, 2017 at 2:58 pm
Hi Mandy. I just wrote a really long reply and then accidentally deleted it just before I sent it. How frustrating! The gist of it was that I also get mainly physical symptoms – drowsiness and fatigue the worst – although when I wrote it all out I realised that they are actually improving a little. I would love to chat to you on FB – I tried to find you but wasn’t sure that it was you. My FB name is SarahJoy Leitch in Leeds in the UK and my picture is a rather lovely little cockerel with red, overgrown bangs/fringe. I am interested in your experience too – how long you were on the drugs and what your symptoms are now. Looking forward to hearing from you. xx
September 19, 2016 at 5:33 pm
I am in the midst of hell from discontinuing Paxil. I had to change meds as I started having auditory hallucinations after 15 years on Paxil. I did taper slowly, but it has been hell ever since. I still have auditory hallucinations, awful tinnitus, feeling like my tongue is swollen all the time, insomnia, cant think straight, and have the same intrusive thoughts all day long. My doctor has tried me on Brintellix, Prozac, Pristiq, Celexa and now Zoloft to make these symptoms go away. Any advice at all? Im miserable.
September 19, 2016 at 6:31 pm
Please go to surviving anti depressants. Com
This blog is not monitored. The people and website will be invaluable!!
October 22, 2016 at 6:54 am
OMG! This is the first article I have read , on the effects and usefulness/uselessness of taking SRRIs . An explanation of what truly happens to your brain when you cease taking the medication.
I had taken effexor for about 9 years . Without any medical support , I spent a year reducing my dose . The mental torture began after cessation ,anxiety depression ,loneliness-the random patterns for the last year. The physical side effects although real were not a patch on what I have gone through emotionally and mentally. Again ,with no medical support , but I would not recommend anyone do it that way. I have alienated my entire family , so that is not entirely helpful . I have been effexor free for over a year now – I could have killed early on and I am a pacifist so that is revealing .
I am lucky that I have a 12 step program support network for alcohol . I have never mentioned the mental anguish of giving up effexor to anyone in AA but I might not have survived without trying to build some relationships in my life with people from that program . There have been many suicidal thoughts however, today, I have created things to look forward to. Exercise should also be added as a healer.
I think a lot of the original reason for my being put on Effexor was due to environment, situation and alcohol .
This drug , effexor, is dangerous and I regret being on it at all, however , I write only about my experience and do not recommend ceasing medication to someone that truly needs it therefore having a medical support person would be essential. Thank you Mr Heaney for presenting an argument based on research rather than the mysery of still suffering people’s experiences in their first days or weeks.
October 23, 2016 at 6:16 am
r8elyme interesting that you say you are in AA did you find effexor increasing your alcohol intake because SSRI antidepressants can cause intense cravings for alcohol in some people. you can read about it on “out of my mind driven to drink” on Dr David Healys blog or the rxisk website. Now you are off effexor have your cravings gone?
December 3, 2016 at 5:53 am
Thank you James,
for helping me understand my behaviour after stopping the Cytalopram. I have full range of symptoms.
Thank you !
December 12, 2016 at 5:42 am
This article is highly informative and helpful for me as I battle through SNRI withdrawal. Thank you.
December 22, 2016 at 5:09 am
I’m off of lexapro for 43 days now…I’ve been on and off of this devil drug since I was a sophomore in high school… I hate my doctor for ever putting me on this horrible drug. The withdrawals are unbearable… I am afraid I will never be happy again. I refuse to go back on it because it made me gain so much weight and since I’ve gone off of lexapro, I have lost 30lbs. Its almost like I’m supposed to choose between being “happy & fat on meds” or skinny and depressed. I feel like I’m fucking crazy!!! My mood swings, anger, depression…my thoughts are killing me. The suicide thoughts and insomnia are insane. I barely sleep and when I do sleep it doesn’t feel like it. When I was on antidepressants I slept WAY too much…
Is there hope for me? How long does this last? My brain keeps telling me its hopeless and I should just go back to this drug. But I can’t. Between the weight gain, sleeping too much, and loss of creativity (I’m a musician-songwriter)-I just can’t be on lexapro!!! But when I’m off of it, I want to die because I can’t live with the thoughts going on in my head. HELP please someone tell me there is light at the end of this tunnel.
P.S. NO ONE TAKE LEXAPRO
December 22, 2016 at 8:15 am
Hi Jamilyn,
This forum isn’t really supervised anymore…but I remember exactly how that felt. I almost thought I had developed a more serious mental health issue and would never be the same.
While I’m not a doctor and can’t guarantee anything, I can tell you from personal experience that it does get better and to keep pushing through. It took quite a few months for the severe symptoms to go away and several years for me to feel like I was completely back normal.
I know all of the withdrawal symptoms make you feel hopeless…I remember waking up EVERY morning and feeling the most terrible rush of panic and dread. I could barely start my day. It went away, along with the terrible brain zaps too. I was on citalopram for almost 10 years. Again, I’m no doctor but from my experience it took almost half of that to get back to normal completely…that being said, the terrible withdrawal symptoms went away in about 6 months. so you’re almost there!
You can do it and check out http://survivingantidepressants.org/…there are lots of people experiencing the same thing. Also just keep advocating for yourself with your doctor and make sure they understand.
You’ll get through this!
August 2, 2017 at 10:11 pm
Hi Jamilyn, I’m really sorry you are going through this, but there is absolutely light at the end of the tunnel! I was on Zoloft for two years, started getting really sick while on it, so I got off the meds for about 9 months. Actually played soccer in college and could hardly even breathe or walk to class my senior year, so I had to give it up. Over the course of those 9 months, I suffered pretty awful withdrawal side effects and none of my doctors had any answer except to go back on the meds so I did last summer. Went on Luvox (300 mg) for about a year, and I just got off them a month and a half ago because I wasn’t getting any better. Instead of listening to these doctors that just want to write you a script, I started looking into natural medicines. I am currently taking B vitamins, fish oil, magnesium, and milk thistle as well as two adaptogens (ashwagandha and Bacopa Monnieri) and I am feeling a good bit better. It’s most certainly not the cheapest route to go but if you’re really struggling, it is a good option. Lastly, eating a good diet by cutting out caffeine, alcohol, gluten, refined sugar, and processed foods will help your body heal.
January 6, 2017 at 9:06 am
I only weened off 10 mg of celexa after 1 week. And I’m thankful I found this log because I am definitely experiencing the withdrawal in my brain which I sometimes mistake for being real feelings and unstable emotions. However inkeep reminding myself that it’s part of the process. It’s been 3 weeks now of being off then, things seem to be up and down still with my levels of happiness and hopelessness, but I’m wondering how long it will take for my brain to be back to normal and regulated on its own. I was on celexa for 1 year. Thank you!
April 18, 2017 at 7:41 am
Thanks for posting this – is helpful as I am fully experiencing he ‘withdrawal rage’ and I am hating myself. I punched a tram tonight – have a sore hand – what an idiot!
Was on lexapro for 3 years, 10mg. Hated the weight gain and drowsy feeling. Came off 3 months ago. Withdrawal started with physical symptoms, dizziness and headaches. These lasted about 4 weeks. Now symptoms have turned to extreme anger and irritability. I feel I could snap at any time.
I have been nasty to others… and I am so ashamed I can’t control this rage.
Please help – does anyone know when will this end and apart from getting back on lexapro- is there anything I can do to naturally rebalance brain chemistry? Thanks
June 10, 2017 at 7:35 am
[…] trầm cảm tới chánh niệm dịch từ bài viết “Phases of SSRI Withdrawal” của James […]
September 30, 2017 at 5:01 am
I know this is an old post but I only just found it. How are we to wean slowly off when, for example Prozac only comes in 20mg pills? I could only wean off by dropping 20mg at a time. I asked my GP if there is a smaller dosage and he said NO. I did not have the luxury of weaning off slowly enough and have had so far three years of absolute hell. No rage, but severe and disabling OCD and tics, with anxiety. The first two years I was suicidally depressed with no help other than fifty mins once a week with a counsellor (which was no use to me). The only thing that I am angry about is that there is no way of admininstering a smaller dosage when weaning off. And if Big Pharma were a person I would commit the most hideous of murder on him. lol
December 24, 2017 at 12:30 pm
Hi,
I took an SSRI for 3 months and in an other 3 months I tapered off of it. I was all right but after 2 months I started to feel moderate sexual dysfunction. And then after 5 more months I started to feel apathetic towards everything. Emotional numbness and anxiety (excessive worry). These symptoms appeared 8 months after coming off the drug. My Pdoc says it is dysthymia but I think it is a side effect of SSRI. Can side effects of antidepresaants begin to appear gradually? Can they appear for the first time several months after discontinuation? Plz help me with this confusion. Thanks
December 31, 2017 at 11:59 pm
I was on 10mg Cipralex for nine years for situational anxiety. I think it was actually the sexual side effects that convinced me to try to stop them. Unfortunately where I live, there are no family doctors and one must rely on a walk in clinic – what you get is what you get. I was told to cut down for two weeks then stop as “10 mg” was a small dose. For a month I was so sick to my stomach I only ate crackers and Gravol. Those symptoms have disappeared and I am artistically pumped and creative. No strange physical feelings except for a lump in my throat and I seem to be so damn weepy. I make mountains out of molehills and then feel guilty for doing so and get to crying again. Perhaps too proud but damn, it feels good to have a libido again. I’m glad to have found this forum and realize that the withdrawal lasts longer than when the pill has left your system.
April 9, 2018 at 10:42 am
So what if you had serotonin syndrome and was took off your antidepressant in a 2 week taper. It’s been a month and the withdrawals are brutal and my anxiety is severe, how long is it going to be like this?
April 9, 2018 at 10:42 am
So what if you had serotonin syndrome and was took off your antidepressant in a 2 week taper. It’s been a month and the withdrawals are brutal and my anxiety is severe, how long is it going to be like this?
June 27, 2018 at 9:37 pm
>10% per month
so 10 months of withdrawing?
I withdrew from 10 mg in 4 weeks after being on it for 5 years. 0.5 mg was tough so I stayed on that for two weeks.
Today is my second day off escitalopram entirely. Experiencing major “electrocution/rollercoaster” blips in my brain, which last less than a second; they’re just zaps. Also there’s periodic tingling in my face and right arm-hand-fingers. Strangely, my tongue tingles as well, and experiences periodic numbness. Emotionally, I feel great, much better than when I was on the drug, which can be described as “zombification.” I can actually laugh hard again. I still can’t experience sadness, but I did almost cry for the first time in 5 years when watching television, certain scenes just triggered very intense emotional reactions.
I’ve accepted the fact that the SSRI damaged my brain and this is all a process of my brain trying to readjust/heal itself. I pray to god there’s no permanent damage.
June 28, 2018 at 8:27 am
I weaned off Prozac with CBD oil. Have been on Zoloft then Prozac for years . I sleep better – feel better emotionally than I have for years. I order mine on line but you can get it anywhere – health food stores – co/ops. No THC , so legal all 50 states.
July 3, 2018 at 9:47 am
I am currently weaning off Zoloft. I went on it in August of 2017 and after 3 months I started to taper off. I didn’t like how I was feeling and the side effects (most of which other folks have mentioned in this post.) I was taking 75 mg and am now down to 12.5mg. I am doing this with the support of my psychologist and osteopath. My doctor and nurse practitioner do not know; I have not told them because they are not supportive. I am not very confident in their care, in part because they never mentioned the side effects and told me that weaning off would not be difficult (i.e., they said cutting back by 25mg increments every 4 weeks would be fine.) I went on Zoloft for PTSD; the first couple of weeks were terrible because the medication made me feel terribly depressed. After that, I started to gain weight and felt numb. Some of what I’ve learned on this journey: As several pharmacists have told me, everyone taking SSRIs reacts differently. Each patient experiences a different set of benefits and side effects and everyone needs to come off at their own rate. To wean off, I have been using something called a “divided dose tube.” It looks like a plastic test tube. I got a few from my pharmacist. You’re really only supposed to use each one once, but I wash it out well at the end of each use and can use the same one for at least a month. I fill it with 10mls of distilled water and open a 25mg capsule of Zoloft and carefully put the powdered drug into the tube with the water. I shake the tube really well (it has a screwtop lid, or I just cover the end with my thumb) and then draw off what I need. A half mls of the mixture is 1.25mg of drug if you are taking 25mg capsules. (Here in Canada, we can only buy the generic version of Zoloft and the smallest dose at which it is dispensed by a pharmacist is 25mg in a capsule/powdered form. In the US, you can get the brand name in a pill form, which can be cut, or in a liquid form, which can be used in very small doses – but in Canada, we cannot get these formulations, so we have to improvise.) I started doing this when I got to 50mg: I would take one full 25mg capsule and open and add the contents of a second capsule in 10mls of water, and then use a liquid medication syringe to draw off what I needed. (The drub doesn’t actually dissolve but is just suspended in the water, so you have to keep putting your thumb on the opening and shaking it frequently.) This way, I was able to wean off in increments of 1.25mg, so from 50mg down to 48.25, then down to 47.5, and so on. After almost 9 months, I am now down to 12.5 mg. I stay at each reduced dose for a week to 10 days. I tried going faster and reducing every 3 to 5 days, but the brain zaps, blurred vision and dizziness would come back. Again, on the recommendation of my pharmacist, I would go back to the previous dose, stay there for another week, and then try to reduce the dose again. Another pharmacist made up an oral suspension made with glycerine. I draw off the dose I need using a syringe. There are 10mg of drug in every ml of liquid. The taste is truly terrible, so I am using up my capsules first and then when I get down to very tiny doses, I will try the liquid again. I hope to be finished and completely weaned off the drug by the end of August 2018. I am then taking annual holidays from work for a month – I did that on purpose, so as to give myself a chance to rest and be quiet, if that’s what I need. Like others who have posted here, I don’t expect that finally stopping the drug will be the end of this experience. I will have been on Zoloft for 13 months (if my current weaning schedule goes as planned) and I anticipate that it will be quite possible that I will need another 6 to 12 months to feel like myself again…whatever that means, because I am having trouble remembering what that feels like.) The only reason that I have been able to taper off like this is because I did my own research and talked to people, like my pharmacists and psychologist. I took my divided dose tubes to my doctor – she had never seen or heard of them and didn’t comprehend why I would need to use them. You have to be your own advocate; that’s really difficult when you’re experiencing the apathy that comes with the drug and weaning off. At least when I get anxiety, dizziness, blurred vision, “zaps” in my head, feet or hands, and any of the other side effects, at least it helps me to understand that it’s the drug, and that this will eventually pass, and that I just need to do my best to “Keep calm and carry on” and be patient and brave. I know and understand that this is not me and that I just have to patiently keep searching for myself. In the course of all of this, I have gradually stopped doing many of the things that i have done for other people over the years – friends and family – because I need every ounce of energy to take care of myself, stay calm and patient, and maintain the goal of coming through this “storm” It’s really, really hard to explain to people who have not had this experience what it is like…so I’ve stopped trying to do that too.
July 3, 2018 at 2:36 pm
I got off Prozac – couldn’t get off Zoloft without switching to Prozac- using CBD oil – I order FYI. 4 corners cannabis -liquid you put under your tongue-. It took me about a month – I haven’t felt this good in years – and I have tears again . Big pharma sucks
August 5, 2018 at 1:25 am
This article us spot on
January 3, 2019 at 10:57 am
I’ve been on Lexapro for 16 1/2 years. I’m currently weaning off very gradually. My main symptoms are anxiety and insomnia. My current dose is 1.5 mg what really helps is to get a liquid so you can taper very gradually. So far I’ve been weaning off for the past 18 months. I hope to be off of this in a few months altogether. Doctors and big Pharma really push the drugs.
January 4, 2019 at 5:48 pm
Good job! What was your dose before deciding to wean? I ended up going back on the lexapro. i take 10mg. I fee like I will be on this drug forever. Trying to get off the meds was so horrible I’m terrified to try getting off them again.
January 3, 2019 at 5:44 pm
I came across this website after many hours of searching through the internet looking for more information about what could be happening to me. I’ve been taking paroxetine for about a year and a half, and it’s been a lonely, difficult journey. This website is the most poignant, knowledgeable, and candid depiction of what many people go through when trying to taper from an SSRI. It has become a source of comfort for me to revisit it from time to time. Does anyone know why James Heaney stopped contributing to it?
February 4, 2019 at 1:49 pm
‘Not all people experience withdrawal symptoms when trying to stop taking a Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor. In clinical trials, the percentage is placed between 2 and 10 percent of patients.’ This very first statement is complete bs; try 90%. If you doubt that, continue to read the comments. Not only that, I’ve been weaning off Paxil for the last year after 20 years of intake.
February 24, 2019 at 6:37 pm
Thankyou for your informative blog. Have there been any psychiatrists, psychologists, or natropaths who have done their honor’s on withdrawal from SSRI’s. It seems to me that further research needs to be done in both the natural treatment to lessen SSRI’s withdrawal symptoms and whether SSRI’s should be prescribed due to the long term effects after taking the drug as well as treating depression/anxiety with natural medications (vitamins) and foods.
As an individual who started on SSRI’s for social anxiety as a child
And is weaning off the medication 18 years later and experiencing worse symptoms of low mood than when starting the medication. Nausea in bouts throughout the day, anger that is unlike myself, weight gain, teeth clenching, vomitting, crying and not being able to know why, irritability that is very difficult to control, and symptoms very similar to low blood glucose, feelings of itchiness without reason.
If anyone is interested in doing trials or research in this area. I would highly encourage people to get involved.
November 3, 2021 at 5:21 pm
I’m over a month removed from SSRI and it’s just nonstop Rage. That and what I can only describe as labotomy headaches. The spot where they used to perform labotomies feels like I have a needle shoved in it. Nausea comes and go. I will never take SSRI again.